New Gaming Computer - $700 - $800

[volskid]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing?
Web, Gaming (WoW and Diablo 3) and Light Photoshop/Video editing.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
I'd like to keep this as most bang for budget as possible, I'm hoping to keep it around $700-800 shipped if possible.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
Virginia, USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
Motherboard
CPU
Video card
Memory
HDD
PSU

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Case
Monitor
Keyboard
Mouse

6) Will you be overclocking?
No

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
24 inch - 1920x1080

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Within the next two weeks

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)?
SATA 6.0Gb/s, HDMI

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yes, Windows 7 Home 64bit

Here is what's on my mind right now
Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3
CPU - Intel Core i5-2400
Video card - SAPPHIRE 100314-3L Radeon HD 6870
Memory - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600
HDD - Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB
PSU - CORSAIR Professional Series HX650 (CMPSU-650HX)

Comments
I am going to be using this computer mostly for just general web browsing, playing WoW and Diablo 3 and very light Photoshop/movie editing.

Is the video card that I selected up to par for all of the above tasks? I don't care about playing on Ultra Settings but being able to play on High Settings would be nice.

Is the power supply that I selected able to power all of these components without any issue at all?

Overall, how do all of these components fit and play together? Should I have any type of driver troubles or anything of that nature?

Feel free to throw out any suggestions or changes that will be viable to the build.

 

[Dangman]

Those parts will work together fine. However several of those parts are poor buys for the money:

- The Corsair HX650 is more than enough for your needs. However it's fairly overkill. You would be fine with this PSU (Same manufacturer of that Corsair BTW):
$70 - Seasonic S121II 620 620W PSU

- The hard drive is ridiculously overpriced for two reasons:
1) The slight faster Hitachi HDS721050CLA362 500GB drive costs less:
$91 - Hitachi HDS721050CLA362 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

2) The significantly faster (faster than both 500GB drives actually) Hitachi 1TB costs $25 more than that WD Drive:
$168 - Hitachi Desktar 7K1000.D HDS721010DLE630 1TB SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive

- I'm fairly sure D3 will run fine on a HD 6870 1GB at 1920x1080 but WOW is far more demanding. I recommend spending the extra cash for this faster card:
$213 - Gigabyte GTX 560 TI 1GB PCI-E Video Card

However if you want to stick with the HD 6870 for whatever reason, the HD 6870 you chose is pretty overpriced as this longer warrantied and better supported HD 6870 is ~$7 less:
$165 - XFX HD-687A-ZHFC Radeon HD 6870 1GB PCI-E Video Card

- The GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 is a good motherboard. However Newegg jacked up the price on it by $10 and removed the free shipping it had for the longest time. As such, at its shipped cost of $138, it's very overpriced considering that the higher quality Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3 costs $7 more:
$145 - Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3 Intel Z68 ATX Motherboard

If you can find the GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 for $125 shipped or less, then it will be a good deal again. Otherwise, I'd recommend the above Gigabyte motherboard instead.

Also what case will you be reusing?

 

[volskid]

Implementations:
Seasonic S121II 620 620W PSU
Hitachi HDS721050CLA362 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
Gigabyte GTX 560 TI 1GB PCI-E Video Card
Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3 Intel Z68 ATX Motherboard

therefore new build is as follows:

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3
CPU - Intel Core i5-2400
Video card - Gigabyte GTX 560 TI
Memory - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600
HDD - Hitachi HDS721050CLA362 500GB
PSU - Seasonic S121II 620W

Also what case will you be reusing?
I will be reusing my Antec P180.

 

[Dangman]

Looks solid now. However, since you're not overclocking, you should be fine with this mobo instead:
$90 - Intel BOXDH67BLB3 Intel H67 mATX Motherboard

 

[volskid]

What about something like this?

BIOSTAR TZ68A+

For some reason I am not to fond of mATX boards, would rather have a full size ATX board.

Or is there anything else in the less than $100 price bracket with just the basics of what I am looking for?

 

[Dangman]

What about something like this?

BIOSTAR TZ68A+

That's an OK motherboard but I think the Intel is of slightly higher quality and has a faster LAN NIC.

Or is there anything else in the less than $100 price bracket with just the basics of what I am looking for?

None really if you want the ability to use your onboard video in case your video card card dies.

 

[bodan]

WoW really isn't all that demanding if you can live with turning down some of their badly-coded performance hogs like shadows & water effects. Outside of that, it's the same game it's always been, you still get the same quality textures, polygons, draw distances, etc. and 4+ year old systems still max it out. Diablo 3 and such - very low power required to run this game at max. You sound like the perfect candidate for an APU. You may want to look into Llanos with a super-cheap FM1 mobo and compare the cost difference, and also there's Trinity/FM2 out soon.

[edit]For instance, you can take a $50 Hudson D3 FM1 mobo that has all the features you want (Sata 6.0 Gb/s, USB 3.0, etc.) and a $100 Llano and have the motherboard, CPU, and video card all done for around $150 - give or take 20 bucks. You could then instead get stuff that really matters like a high-end SSD, high-end sound card with headphones or upscale speaker system, etc. The performance improvements we'll see from Trinity will make this option pretty interesting.

 

[volskid]

Looks solid now. However, since you're not overclocking, you should be fine with this mobo instead:
$90 - Intel BOXDH67BLB3 Intel H67 mATX Motherboard

This motherboard won't run the DDR3 1600 that I picked out earlier would it? What is the decrease in performance from 1600 to 1333?

Also how is the video card on the APU? I know it would run WoW and D3 fine, but what about "future-proofing", how long do you think something like that would last?

How would the APU system compare in performace to the system that I laid out above? Drastic decrease or slight decrease?

 

[E4g1e]

This motherboard won't run the DDR3 1600 that I picked out earlier would it? What is the decrease in performance from 1600 to 1333?

Minimal (if any). The biggest difference is in the benchmark e-peen.

In addition, a chipset that does not support CPU overclocking also does not support memory speeds above Intel's official maximum of DDR3-1333 for current LGA 1155 CPUs.

 

[Dangman]

This motherboard won't run the DDR3 1600 that I picked out earlier would it? What is the decrease in performance from 1600 to 1333?

For an Intel setup, as E4g1e noted, it's basically just an e-peen thing.

Also how is the video card on the APU? I know it would run WoW and D3 fine, but what about "future-proofing", how long do you think something like that would last?

I have to disagree with bodan: The A8-3850 APU is not fast enough to handle WoW or D3 at your resolution. In terms of longevity, the GPU portion of the A8-3850 and A8-3870K APUs is somewhere between the 6450 & 5570, two low-end video cards. As such, it doesn't have much legs unless you're planning to at 1024x768 now and forever.

How would the APU system compare in performace to the system that I laid out above? Drastic decrease or slight decrease?

Massive decrease in performance.

 

[bodan]

For an Intel setup, as E4g1e noted, it's basically just an e-peen thing.

I have to disagree with bodan: The A8-3850 APU is not fast enough to handle WoW or D3 at your resolution. In terms of longevity, the GPU portion of the A8-3850 and A8-3870K APUs is somewhere between the 6450 & 5570, two low-end video cards. As such, it doesn't have much legs unless you're planning to at 1024x768 now and forever.

Massive decrease in performance.

If you want to know a little about the performance on the Llano APUs then look at youtube. Lots of people throw up little videos showing them running games, comparisons, etc. It's nice for an objective look.

Anandtech.com has some interesting numbers. No, these APUs do not limit you to 728. Commonly run resolutions with an APU are 1680x1050 through 1920x1200. All of Anandtech's benchmarks with the APUs are at 1680x1050:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/399?vs=403

WoW @ 1680x1050 "Windows 7, All details maxed, no AA"

About 70 FPS on the A8, 60 on the A6.

I'm afraid Mr. Bui is a little ignorant on the APU situation and the games you listed. I remember running WoW on my Ti-4200. The game has not fundamentally changed, like I said, if you turn off the performance hogging, poorly optimized/coded junk like their DX11 water & projected shadows, pretty much anything can max that game out these days. You just need sufficient CPU power for raids and what not, and sufficient means something like a Yonah and beyond.

Bui is correct on the longevity - this system is not future proof at all, but we're talking about a $350 price tag here. A8s can run BF3 on medium smoothly at 1680x1050, so it's got enough performance if you ask me (for most people). However I would not recommend one - Llano is just about to be replaced by Trinity. Supposedly we can take the numbers we have now for Llano performance and expect Trinity to do about 30%-50% better. If you are interested in APUs and the value they provide, that's what you should wait for.

 

[Dangman]

All of Anandtech's benchmarks with the APUs are at 1680x1050:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/399?vs=403

WoW @ 1680x1050 "Windows 7, All details maxed, no AA"

About 70 FPS on the A8, 60 on the A6.

Key problem: AT didn't actually say which video card they were using in that WoW benchmark. Look at the benchmark for Dragon Age Origins: It also notes "Windows 7, All details maxed, no AA". However, AT's own review of the A8-3850 shows that AT was only able to get 70FPS @ 1024x768 at low quality settings in Dragon Age Origins with A8-3850:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4448/amd-llano-desktop-performance-preview/4

Nor do the Crysis: Warhead benchmarks match up as well (page 2 of the above review). In addition, check AT's benchmarks of the Pentium G620 VS A8-3850:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/399?vs=406

The G620 is shown to outperform the A8-3850. But it's well proven that the G620 has a far inferior onboard GPU than the A8-3850. However, AT didn't say which video card was being used with the G620. But unless AT found a magical way to vastly increase the performance of the Intel onboard GPU, more than likely AT used a dedicated video card with the G620 despite not mentioning so. As such, that could be the case for AT's bench APU numbers: A seperate dedicated video card was used instead of the APU's onboard GPU.

 

[bodan]

Those benchmarks may have been a little too good - so I think I agree with that assessment.

Here are some benchmarks that are specifically about the APU, not just its CPU performance:

http://guru3d.com/article/amd-a8-3870k-review/19

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/02/06/amd-a8-3870-review/6

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=2164&pageID=11418

With that you can gauge an idea of its performance level. It's no dog. However, like I said, buying Llano right now would be a mistake. All this talk about Llano is just to demonstrate what it can do now, Trinity is the APU to get excited about. Though Llano isn't going to break any record, if Trinity delivers on performance even somewhat close to the projected figures it would serve most people quite well. If you have to have a system now then go for the suggestions. However you mentioned futureproofing and buying a system on the cusp of a new wave of CPU tech would be the opposite of that.

[edit]
Oh, one other thing to consider is the Hybrid CrossFireX/Dual GPU options on these APUs. With select discrete GPUs - usually low-end, sub $100 types, you can run Crossfire between the APU and a discrete GPU. It does give a nice boost in performance and has come a long way drivers-wise since Llano's release. I think it will be pretty interesting to see what happens with this when Trinity comes out.

 

[volskid]

When are the Trinity APUs supposed to come out?

It seems like my best option for my current needs as well as some sort of longevity would be the build that is listed a couple of posts above. Still not sure if I should go with the Gigabyte Motherboard or the Intel Motherboard though?

 

[bodan]

When are the Trinity APUs supposed to come out?

It seems like my best option for my current needs as well as some sort of longevity would be the build that is listed a couple of posts above. Still not sure if I should go with the Gigabyte Motherboard or the Intel Motherboard though?

It's not just Trinity that's coming out, there's Kepler and Ivy Bridge as well. If you can wait for a month or two then that's what you should do.

 

[Dangman]

All this talk about Llano is just to demonstrate what it can do now, Trinity is the APU to get excited about.

Until legitimate numbers comes out, I don't see the point in getting excited about Trinity.

If the OP's budget was somewhere around $400 to $500, then maybe the Trinity APU would be worth waiting for. But the OP has a $700 to $800 budget that allows him to get a fairly powerful PC with seperate GPU and CPU. Even if Trinity meets the projected performance figures, it'll still be slower the setup the OP has planned now.

Now for Trinity to be a viable option IMO for a low-end PC, AMD has to introduce the Trinity APUs at the current pricing of Llano APUs. I say this because, as shown in the AT links I linked to earlier, the Pentium G620 outperforms the CPU portion of the A8-3850 in most games. In addition, it's also been shown that the HD 5570 or the renamed/rebranded HD 6570 offers higher performance than the GPU portion of the A8-3850. You can get the Pentium G620 and the HD 6570 for $70 a piece for a total of $140, the same pricing as the A8-3850.

So in order for Trinity to be a viable choice IMO, the Trinity APUs has to be faster than or equal to the Pentium G620 in the CPU portion and faster than or equal to the HD 6570 in the GPU portion while costing $140. But to justify the wait, it has to be faster than the Pentium G620 and HD 6570 combo.

When are the Trinity APUs supposed to come out?

Rumors vary: It was supposedly due out last month. Now some rumors are saying release is sometime in March. Ivy Bridge is supposedly due out in April.

It seems like my best option for my current needs as well as some sort of longevity would be the build that is listed a couple of posts above. Still not sure if I should go with the Gigabyte Motherboard or the Intel Motherboard though?

You are correct. Since you're not overclocking nor planning on using SLI or Crossfire, go with the intel or even the Biostar mobo. The Gigabyte mobo is just overkill for your needs.

 

[bodan]

There is plenty to be excited about Trinity, if you aren't enthused about APUs that's fine, but to say Trinity isn't exciting is quite the ignorant load. Legitimate Trinity numbers are in fact out, from AMD, in a press leak. 3600 in 3DMark 11 on a low-voltage 25W model. What the desktop versions do will be very interesting to see. What it means for budget gamers & low voltage mobile systems is good news for us and AMD, actually.

The G620 and likewise pairings are good demonstrations of value but it would be unwise to buy at this point. And after IB is released it's going to be another 4+ months before we see Pentium iterations out of it.

The OP may have a budget that affords a mainstream system, but the listed main games are WoW & Diablo 3. One is an 8 year old MMO, the other is essentially a 4 year old beta hack'n'slash. An i5 nor a GTX 560 is not required to max those games, or needed to play games well into the future.

OP, seems you have already made your choice, but if you were able to get a basic Trinity system for ~$350 for the whole works (mechanical HDD assumed). That leaves another 350-450 to spend on other stuff... IPS panel? High quality sound system? Those things make a big difference. There are other value options other than Trinity, I'm just using it as a benchmark. The point is spending $800 for WoW is really dumb. But GL.

 

[Dangman]

There is plenty to be excited about Trinity, if you aren't enthused about APUs that's fine, but to say Trinity isn't exciting is quite the ignorant load. Legitimate Trinity numbers are in fact out, from AMD, in a press leak. 3600 in 3DMark 11 on a low-voltage 25W model. What the desktop versions do will be very interesting to see. What it means for budget gamers & low voltage mobile systems is good news for us and AMD, actually.

Fair point on the mobile computing market. i would love to see better budget gaming platforms there. However, we're talking about a desktop gaming PC here, not a laptop. Like I said, unless the Trinity APU has been shown to outperform the Pentium G620 + HD 6570 combo while being at a similar price point, I don't see the point in getting excited about it for a desktop gaming PC. If it can't meet those metrics, why care about the Trinity APU in a desktop gaming PC?

By legitimate, I mean from 3rd party and independent sources, not from AMD themselves. I'm less than inclined to go with AMD's words nowadays due to the Bulldozer launch.

The G620 and likewise pairings are good demonstrations of value but it would be unwise to buy at this point. And after IB is released it's going to be another 4+ months before we see Pentium iterations out of it.

In other words, six months away if the April release are true. As such, the G620 and compatible pairing is still viable choice considering how long it will be before the Pentium IB CPUs comes out. Using your logic, people shouldn't have been buying SB CPUs setup 4 to 6 six months ago since IB is coming out in April supposedly..

 

[volskid]

Looking at this as the final build, any last thoughts or good to go?

Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3
CPU - Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz
Memory - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
PSU - SeaSonic S12II 620 Bronze 620W
Videocard - GIGABYTE GV-N560OC-1GI GeForce GTX 560 Ti
HDD - HITACHI HDS721050CLA362 (0F10381) 500GB

Comments:
Went back to the Gigabyte B3 motherboard with the price drop, seems like a good buy to me. Included the slightly more powerful GTX 560 since it is cheaper with the rebate than the other one listed in the posts above. Not sure about the difference between 900MHz and 822MHz.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

IMHO, paying extra for a factory overclocked video card isn't worth it since majority of the time you can easily get those clocks yourself with the cheaper cards.

 

[Dangman]

I don't factor in rebates until they're actually in your hands. As such, at $233 shipped, not really worth the extra $20 IMO unless you're really lazy.