New games not using HL2 engine...Wonder why..

[[RIP]Zeus]

Would like to get some thoughts from people here on WHY no one would want to use or use the hl2 engine...seems to me the game engines being used are Doom3's and Unreal3's....


imo hl2 sucks and that there engine is half assed...but thats my opinion..

anyways if you feel like this is a troll Thread. plz do not post...i want to get peoples thoughts on this

 

[spugnor]

Without knowing more, it's pretty pointless to even talk about it. Perhaps the dev tools for HL2 engine aren't as mature (I.E. harder to use). Or perhaps thier licencing is more expensive. Or maybe the other two engines were better promoted to other developers? We simply don't know enough to even constructively postulate why the HL2 engine might be being passed over for other game engines.

Just my opinion.

 

[defiant]

All I can say is im glad I bought a 6800 gt!

/me hugs his video card

aaah dont worry my pretty......soon you shall be playing prey, quake wars, quake 4, etc

 

[WickedAngel]

I remember reading that most of the tools that are required to complete a mod were not included in the HL2 SDK.

That's why we haven't seen many mods from it. There are a few, but they're slight variations of what is already available.

 

[tranCendenZ]

Would like to get some thoughts from people here on WHY no one would want to use or use the hl2 engine...seems to me the game engines being used are Doom3's and Unreal3's....


imo hl2 sucks and that there engine is half assed...but thats my opinion..

anyways if you feel like this is a troll Thread. plz do not post...i want to get peoples thoughts on this

Stutter bug, "memory could not be read" error still not fixed. Look at the nightmare in tech support Troika had to go through with Vampire: Masquerade (only non-valve source engine out there), and still no sure fix in sight. The engine is subpar in terms of stability and sound/video consistency.

 

[bonkrowave]

Does anyone else notice the disturbing pattern, with any game associated with Vivendi? Both World of Warcraft and Half-Life 2 are forced out the door and both have the worst technical support ever. Cost cutting measures no doubt. Vivendi will do anything to make a buck.

 

[pistol222]

Stutter bug, "memory could not be read" error still not fixed. Look at the nightmare in tech support Troika had to go through with Vampire: Masquerade (only non-valve source engine out there), and still no sure fix in sight. The engine is subpar in terms of stability and sound/video consistency.

Yah, I was gonna say- maybe developers didn't want all their future games to stutter like mad...

 

[bonkrowave]

I was also the impression that the SDK released by valve, did not include the tools to do anything other then edit levels. Perhaps this has changed since then, but what I heard from the mod community, did not bode well for the source engine.

 

[PRIME1]

The HL2 engine was created for HL2. Id makes it's money selling engines. Unreal is moving in that direction as well. The HL2 engine is nice but who knows how hard it is to program for or how much Valve restricts it's use. The Doom3 engine was licensed out to game developers long before Doom3 was released.

Heck, once Id releases a new engine they usually release the source code for the old engine.

 

[Devourer]

Does anyone else notice the disturbing pattern, with any game associated with Vivendi? Both World of Warcraft and Half-Life 2 are forced out the door and both have the worst technical support ever. Cost cutting measures no doubt. Vivendi will do anything to make a buck.

I would have to say Tribes Vengeance had the worst support ever. Thank god I knew it sucked just from the demo & didn't buy it. However I did buy Swat4 which is awesome & it has a few glaring problems which have no fix in site so Swat 4 is becoming #2 in the worst support ever. VUG doesn't seem to care about anything other then the almighty $. I personally will be very cautious when considering anymore VUG released games.

About the source engine. Personally I think the Swat4 version of the Unreal engine looks better, so UE3 will just rape the source engine. The FarCry engine is also better. The Doom3 engine with this new technology they added to it to make Quake Wars is gonna blow the source engine outta the water as well. The only real thing Source engine had going for it was the name of the 2 things it was released on. Being HL2, & Counter Strike.

 

[raz-0]

Well, the HL2 engine was used for vampire bloodlines. So it is being licensed. However, player bitches aside, there are some likely reasons why it is not being used.

1) cross platform compatibility. You have the doom3 engine, unreal engine, and lithtech engine. All three work on PC, MAC, and at least one major console. The source engine only runs on PC at the moment. Buying a VERY expensive license to an engine is a business decision meant to save time and by association money. You want the largest return on investment, and cross platform support improves that.

2) Art asset development costs. At least at the moment, half the quality look of HL2 comes from radiosity solutions baked into the textures during development. You alter the map or lighting, you have to redo the textures. At this point art assets are alreadys exceeding development costs for other parts of the game, no reason to exacerbate the issue by licensing an engine that makes you do work twice where others might not.

3) SDK.. others have said it. If it isn't in a shape the community can use, it's not in any kind of shape to make it friendly for developers. Look at how much time and effort some of the other engine developers are putting into making this easier, and you'll see a killer feature that source isn't ready for primetime on.

4) network code. lithtech has nice features and is cheaper than the rest, but you don't see it licensed as much as others because it has poor network code in comparison. source has some nice networking code, but it isn't 100%, and it doesn't outshine competitors enough to make up the price premium and other minuses.

5) PRICE. Source is definitely not one of the bargain licenses. It's features or lack thereof get magnified substantially by this. If you aren't delivering premium features with premium pricing, you ahve an issue.

6) Developers support. Like others have mentioned, competitors have been going at the engine reselling dollar longer. They have more experience in supporting the developers and likely have a more robust and mature support system.

 

[Netrat33]

well...the unreal 3 engine is shaping up to be incredible. And the previous unreal engine has proven itself over and over again.

As for the Doom3 engine...gee...ID games using ID engines (with the exception of Prey which who knows when that will be released)

Source engine games from Valve has it's own games coming out soon too (Day of Defeat). With the mentality of "ooh Quake 4" well you can play counter strike with the source engine. BFD

So no. Really no 3rd party people really have licensed the Doom3 engine or HL2 engine. Just the Unreal engine has (as it's already a beast of an engine for next generation)

(well the count is 1 for Source and Vampire game. Prey not out and forever has been in limbo)

 

[Netrat33]

imo hl2 sucks and that there engine is half assed...but thats my opinion..

Btw, haven't you said already a while back you aren't going to play the game? Soo....have you and gone against even your own word?

 

[Netrat33]

1) cross platform compatibility. You have the doom3 engine, unreal engine, and lithtech engine. All three work on PC, MAC, and at least one major console. The source engine only runs on PC at the moment. Buying a VERY expensive license to an engine is a business decision meant to save time and by association money. You want the largest return on investment, and cross platform support improves that.

Actually it does work on the X-box too. They are making HL2 for x-box. As for MAC....who gives a f**K! MAC isn't a gaming platform.

 

[kmanuel]

Without knowing more, it's pretty pointless to even talk about it. Perhaps the dev tools for HL2 engine aren't as mature (I.E. harder to use). Or perhaps thier licencing is more expensive. Or maybe the other two engines were better promoted to other developers? We simply don't know enough to even constructively postulate why the HL2 engine might be being passed over for other game engines.

Just my opinion.

Your comment should be deleted for using big word most of us don't know what they mean "constructively postulate". Does it have something to do with prostitues

 

[Mindriot]

I think we should all wait and see as far as the capabilites and further development of HL2 Egine is concerned. Let's see what happens over at Valve after August. People tend to forget about the bitter battle that Valve has had with Vivendi since they were obtained.

I'm curious to see what happens once they are completely severed from Vivendi Universal. Things might start moving a little faster over there at Valve. Why should they do anything to possibly put money in VU's pocket at this juncture in time.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

Btw, haven't you said already a while back you aren't going to play the game? Soo....have you and gone against even your own word?

Nope i still to this day refuse to play god awful game...i am so agaist CS it's retarded..sorry but imo i play real games like Unreal, Quake, doom, Shogo...i played HL1 when it came out and just left a bad taste in my mouth. also imo cs did not compete agaist UT or Quake.

So why buy a game that will do nothing but sit on a shelf and do nothing?

imo i buy what is best. and hl2 and cs is no where near best to me.
so. to answer your question again...i have not played halfbaked2

 

[erkan]

You guys are bashing the HL2 engine way too much, I have just got done playing a little of Doom 3, Chronicles of Riddick, and Tribes Vengence, and after loading up a single player game of HL2, it environment and realness factor is by far better than all the previous. HL2 just need some higher res textures.

 

[TekSomniaK]

Nope i still to this day refuse to play god awful game...i am so agaist CS it's retarded..sorry but imo i play real games like Unreal, Quake, doom, Shogo...i played HL1 when it came out and just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Well there are many who would agree, but then thousands upon thousands who would disagree. So for the sake of getting away from HL bashing (which I think you're crazy for doing such a thing), how about we just agree BF2 will own your face off. Plus, Unreal and Quake, both very similar deathmatch crap. THAT would get old, and quick. BF2 will be my getaway from all of it. The mods for it have already been in development for months.

 

[spugnor]

Your comment should be deleted for using big word most of us don't know what they mean "constructively postulate". Does it have something to do with prostitues

Sorry. But somebody has to make up for all the people using "u" to replace "you" and the like.

My point was that we simply don't have enough information to even try to come up with a reason why HL2 engine is not the choice for game developers. Of course, after reading some of the previous posts, i've seen some reasons i could believe. Meh, who the heck knows!?

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

Well there are many who would agree, but then thousands upon thousands who would disagree. So for the sake of getting away from HL bashing (which I think you're crazy for doing such a thing), how about we just agree BF2 will own your face off. Plus, Unreal and Quake, both very similar deathmatch crap. THAT would get old, and quick. BF2 will be my getaway from all of it. The mods for it have already been in development for months.

Yes BF2 owns...period

But like i said hl2 sucks and i will bash it all i want...(freedom of speach)
another thing. There are also Thousands of thousands of people who would agree with me to...not just thousands and thousands who don't agree...works both ways..

Also it doesn't matter what i think about the game. What matters here in this thread is WHY the source engine is not being used...i see more games using ID, Epic, Monolith engines than i see source engines...hell hl1 engine was a hyped up quake engine.

 

[Netrat33]

Nope i still to this day refuse to play god awful game...i am so agaist CS it's retarded..sorry but imo i play real games like Unreal, Quake, doom, Shogo...i played HL1 when it came out and just left a bad taste in my mouth. also imo cs did not compete agaist UT or Quake.

So why buy a game that will do nothing but sit on a shelf and do nothing?

imo i buy what is best. and hl2 and cs is no where near best to me.
so. to answer your question again...i have not played halfbaked2

Well then you're opinions mean truly mean nothing and are nothing more than ignorant rants from and ignorant person. Play the game, form an opinion then.

 

[Netrat33]

Also it doesn't matter what i think about the game. What matters here in this thread is WHY the source engine is not being used...i see more games using ID, Epic, Monolith engines than i see source engines...hell hl1 engine was a hyped up quake engine.

They..just ..got.. into.. the ..game..
No one ever said the HL1 "engine" was for sale

And all the Doom3 engine games are pretty much ID games

Quake 4...I think I was impressed with it the first time when it was called DOOM 3. Turn on the lights, nothing new here except outdoors

The only engine that's putting both engines in it's place is the Unreal 3 engine and in a big way. So...whatever.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

Well then you're opinions mean truly mean nothing and are nothing more than ignorant rants from and ignorant person. Play the game, form an opinion then.

Oh well thats your opinion.

and i still will not play the game. My opinion on that stands.

 

[Steel Chicken]

i like to go around bashing shit ive never used

 

[Netrat33]

Oh well thats your opinion.

and i still will not play the game. My opinion on that stands.

not really.
To form an opinion you have to have some personal experience to FORM the opinion. You played HL1, not 2. Two different games. To spout out an opinion on hating the game you would have to play the game. Else you just spout out blind ignorant thoughts. Why do you hate the game? You can't say. It's boring? How do you know? You never played the game. You haven't even played the demo. So it's not an opinion. You can hate the hype and think it's stupid for people to act a certain way, but that's where it ends. You stance can be to never play the game, which is fine because you choose to. You might "think" the game is stupid, but you can't "argue" it as an opinion. You have no base.

 

[Conker]

ID sold their quake 3 engine with tons of success so they are going to get a good track record. I think doom 3 engine has way more potential than hl2 engine because of its shaders and stuff. Just look at Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. Doom 3 engine all the way.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

ID sold their quake 3 engine with tons of success so they are going to get a good track record. I think doom 3 engine has way more potential than hl2 engine because of its shaders and stuff. Just look at Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. Doom 3 engine all the way.

Now thats what i called owned

 

[Twinkie]

I don't know about the Unreal 3 engine putting the "other engines in their places."

Let's see...

Games on Doom 3 engine? Available.

Games on Source engine? Available.

Games on Unreal 3 engine? Not yet available.

Given that the engine is going to be available to the public as a whole at a later date, I should certainly hope it has improvements!

 

[Netrat33]

I just thought I would bring this one back from the dead because.....


SiN is using this engine

 

[HHunt]

I just thought I would bring this one back from the dead because.....


SiN is using this engine

And from what little I remember of the original, I think it'll be a good fit.

 

[obs]

They..just ..got.. into.. the ..game..
No one ever said the HL1 "engine" was for sale

And all the Doom3 engine games are pretty much ID games

Quake 4...I think I was impressed with it the first time when it was called DOOM 3. Turn on the lights, nothing new here except outdoors

The only engine that's putting both engines in it's place is the Unreal 3 engine and in a big way. So...whatever.

Geez man, the unreal 3 engine isn't even out and won't be for quite sometime. Making a comparison here is just dumb. Especially since most of the screenshots using it aren't even possible in real time on current hardware.

I think the simple answer here is the HL2 engine is Valve's first shot. There is a hell of a lot more to an engine than the graphics rendering which is what everyone seems concerned about. Developers need tools and support. I am also betting there is some cross licensing issues since the HL2 engine licenses the Havok engine. Give Valve some time and they will get better.

id and Epic on the other hand have been making engines to license for some time now. They have a head start in this area.

BTW, maybe wait until Quake4 is actually out before making lame comments about it being the same as Doom3 unless you really do believe the graphics = gameplay mantra. There are more to games than screenshots.

 

[HHunt]

Also, I'm thoroughly sceptical to pre-release screenshots.

 

[Netrat33]

Geez man, the unreal 3 engine isn't even out and won't be for quite sometime. Making a comparison here is just dumb. Especially since most of the screenshots using it aren't even possible in real time on current hardware.

I think the simple answer here is the HL2 engine is Valve's first shot. There is a hell of a lot more to an engine than the graphics rendering which is what everyone seems concerned about. Developers need tools and support. I am also betting there is some cross licensing issues since the HL2 engine licenses the Havok engine. Give Valve some time and they will get better.

id and Epic on the other hand have been making engines to license for some time now. They have a head start in this area.

BTW, maybe wait until Quake4 is actually out before making lame comments about it being the same as Doom3 unless you really do believe the graphics = gameplay mantra. There are more to games than screenshots.

I know the unreal engine isn't out yet. The thread was about why the source engine doesn't have any titles being announced for it and how doom3 and unreal engine are being already licensed for use. And yes a FUTURE engine is putting all of current ones in place. read the whole thread. I'm not doing a "simple comparison" of a yet unreleased engine. And actually yes unreal 3 has been quoted by Tim that it runs on 6800ultra video cards, I'm sure the 7800gtx should handle it fine.

as for Quake4 comparison...yes...the game LOOKS the same. art direction and all. All the videos even look nothing really new. If you can't see that, then maybe your eyes are "lame"...and veering of to the left So Yes I can easy say I'M NOT EXCITED about quake4 from screen shots like I was excited about Doom3 with screen shots

 

[texuspete00]

Yes BF2 owns...period

But like i said hl2 sucks and i will bash it all i want...(freedom of speach)
another thing. There are also Thousands of thousands of people who would agree with me to...not just thousands and thousands who don't agree...works both ways..

Also it doesn't matter what i think about the game. What matters here in this thread is WHY the source engine is not being used...i see more games using ID, Epic, Monolith engines than i see source engines...hell hl1 engine was a hyped up quake engine.

Blah blah blah... you started a thread on a game you are prejudice against. I'm picturing a lamer here. Most would probably think your opinion is unfounded, and you need us to tell you why your unfounded opinion of this engine sucking is correct... no thanks. You seem to have enough imagination to come up with why yourself, you don't even need to play games to review their engine, just come up with something that you'll believe.

 

[I'm the Dude man]

If this is true, HL2 engine is not going to be popular, well that's fine with me. I had to do more tweaking and B.S. to get that game running properly than anything else in my life. And I'm talking non-overclocked, runs D3 perpetually kind of rig.

Big shock since I'm not using an ATI card.

 

[eastvillager]

Does anyone else notice the disturbing pattern, with any game associated with Vivendi? Both World of Warcraft and Half-Life 2 are forced out the door and both have the worst technical support ever. Cost cutting measures no doubt. Vivendi will do anything to make a buck.

Lol, I don't know what you're talking about.

Perhaps the trend you're talking about is selling a bazillion copies of a game and not hiring a million tech people to handle to phones.

Got a secret for you, even if they wanted to hire enough people to handle every WoW call correctly and in a timely fashion, THERE aren't enough of those people in existence.

 

[oqvist]

Really the Source engine is not at all impressive. It´s build for Half Life 2 and nothing more. Look at Bloodlines and how bad that looked. What saved the HL 2 visuals was not it´s polygon pushing engine it was it´s art designers doing a real good job with textures and such.

Also they have made HL 2 maps with the Doom 3 engine that instantly looked better so no wonder people don´t want to use the Source engine.

Doom 3 will probably be the last competitive game engine from ID software. John Carmack has said he want to do other things like becoming a space marine I figure and they simple don´t have the tech to go up against Unreal engine 3. Unreal engine is way superior than the Quake 3 engine and with todays version it´s definiatly competible with the Doom 3 engine.

But I am very curious about monoliths new lithtech engine or what they will call it. They have made great ones in the past . There is also Serious SAM engine floating around and others

 

[Staples]

Well, seems no one is really interested in the D3 engine either. Most id engine games were developed by past id employees or companies that have a very close business relationship with. Sometimes they were able to hook a few extra like 2045 (?) and Infinity Ward and a few others with the Q3 engine. Now it looks like the D3 engine is only being licensed to the real close to id companies.

Unreal 3 has taken over. Seems like almost all the big budget titles coming out are using U3.

And the HL2 engine has always been over rated. ALWAYS. I could not believe when it came out how many people were claiming it was so great and by far the best. I even took a vacation from this board because of all the fan boyism.

 

[133]

I could care less about who makes a game w/the source engine

its all about the mods