New Daylight Saving Worth It?

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Doesn’t it make sense that if the shift in DST is to allow for more light in the evening, wouldn’t that just mean there will be more darkness in the morning? Maybe the folks in Washington DC just figured no one would use lights in the morning.

"If it's dark enough in the morning that pretty much everyone has to turn on the lights," said co-author Kellogg, "what that means is that that increase in morning electricity consumption is going to be so big that it offsets any benefits we get from the extra light in the evening."
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Looks like people are too fixated on the power savings only. It has been proven to reduce power consumption as an overall goal.

In person you are not going to notice any savings, however, at the power plant level you are going to notice a lot more savings, not everyone gets up at 6am to go to work either.


Also, it's the economical revenue that is generated as it also has been proven that profits are much larger when the days are longer... the more sun the more money being generated by the city.
 
I don't mind. My drive to work is east to west, so the sun is in my face to work and then back home.

Congress is stupid to think this is going to save energy. With more sunlight after work, people will be going out and using gas. NPR last week had a guy speaking about how DST has never saved energy, and sometimes uses more. He said DST is responsible for huge shopping increases. People are out and stores have their lights on, which is apparently more enticing. Lights and gas equal energy, among other things.
 
umm....daylight savings was put into place back in the day for farmers. so they could get some extra daylight to work the farm.....

as for me. I like it. screw the dark in the morning, I like to be able to work out in the yard at 8-9 pm and its still light out!
 
In theory it shouldn't really save anything but because it is a fact people use less power in the morning having more daylight later will save some power.
 
I believe I read something from Congressman Markey who basically admitted it was done because an extra hour of light would encourage people to shop more.
 
Hell yes...it's worth it. I wish we'd just stay on DST. No problems at work. Exchange was somewhat of a pain to patch and run the mailbox tool, but outside of that, no big deal.
 
Don't know about everyone else but I use a hell of a lot more light in the evening than I do in the morning so at least in my house it's gonna be an energy saver.

But the biggest deal about this whole thing for me is the depression factor - I hate leaving work at 6pm and it's pitch black outside. This is made worse since I work in Manhattan so the sun effectively sets earlier for us because of all the damn buildings :)

And I love walking out of my house at 4-5pm and seeing the sun high in the sky. Makes me feel like I can do a lot more with my day. Having it bright in the morning is a waste unless you're a construction worker who starts at 5am or something......
 
I may or may not be an average person..But:

Morning: only lights needed at the time I need them on, ie: need to shower/pee/etc:bathroom, TV while getting ready, etc.. Night: more lights on longer than needed, ie: all the kitchen lights on whether I need 'em all or not.

Whatever the outcome, I think this was just a typical Congressional WASTE of taxpayers dollars. I see this being at the very best, a limited resource saver. Real useful stuff there guys, lets spend time debating on the subject, try it out, do a massive study (again at taxpayers expense), debate some more, spend some more, ad nauseum. Rather than do something useful, like give free basic healthcare to all citizens. NOTE: italics for emphasis, don't need this going way off into economic feasability (what a load) or those dreaded 2 I words.

Want to actually change energy consumption? Increase the MPG requirements - no offense intended HRD HMR [not a Hummer fan, but how could you not like a bad ass blacked out Hummer [that actually off roads]? ;), but the average person/soccer mom does NOT need a 4000-6000 # tank to get little Johnny and Susie to school or to go to work...

And change the damned EPA estimates for all passenger vehicles (1970s), which are wholly inadequate for today's vehicles (Esp. when you try to take into account hybrids and electric vehicles).. Boo hoo Detroit will lose more jobs because they're stuck in the 70s? Oh well, the Japanese makers that are expading their productions in the US will compensate. And build sensible, reliable, safe and fast public transportation networks ffs and get people out of their cars! The 405, 10 and 101 freeways are beyond ridiculous. Adding a lane or two every 10 years or so (finite space unless you go UP btw) only delays the inevitable...Carpool lanes aren't helping. And it's beyond insane getting around Santa Monica (and other parts of the west side) these days, esp on the weekend. I remember last summer it took me about 45 minutes to get through the single damned intersection @ Lincoln & Pico (near my house) one hot summer [weekend] day...In a car that the a/c didn't feckin' work no less! I could have Chevrolegged it home in about 5 minutes and laugh my ass off at the poor saps stuck heading down Pico towards the beach (obviously), but NOOOO, I had to be driving. Which reminds me I need to head to Trader Joe's. Thankfully that's something I can easily do via the city bus (this ain't exactly the crappy MTA) as long as I don't need a big amount of stuff..Saving time sitting on the street trying to get in the lot, waiting in the lot for a space, all the while *wasting energy*.

ps Sorry for the off-topic degeneration semi-rant. Topics like this thread are far broader in actuality than it first seems. MUCH more can be done to save energy, not just at the power plant level than this DST change can provide (again limited at best IMO).
 
gobygoby said:
umm....daylight savings was put into place back in the day for farmers. so they could get some extra daylight to work the farm.....

as for me. I like it. screw the dark in the morning, I like to be able to work out in the yard at 8-9 pm and its still light out!
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No it wasn't. Ha.. That's hilarious. Daylight savings was put into place by Benjamin Franklin to help reduce the use of candles at night. They had a wax shortage back in 1700's and this was one way to get around it.

I think they should get rid of it. It's throws people off and people have enough trouble with sleep as it is. Plus I like getting up in the morning to birds chirping and the sun rising. Not to darkness.
 
I've found not confirmed reason of why daylights saving time was invented. My belief was that it was created and asked for by merchants that understood that customers were more likely in the hours where there was sunlight. It would also have the effect of saving energy.

As stated before:
You only tend to turn on the lights where you are in the morning.
You don't spend much time while you are awake in the morning at home.
Those that aren't going to work might not be getting up at that time.

However on the back end. Why are we using this reserve now? Why not use it in the winter where it will be cold and more likely we'll be inside.

Meh I should do some real work now.
 
pgwalsh said:
No it wasn't. Ha.. That's hilarious. Daylight savings was put into place by Benjamin Franklin to help reduce the use of candles at night. They had a wax shortage back in 1700's and this was one way to get around it.

I think they should get rid of it. It's throws people off and people have enough trouble with sleep as it is. Plus I like getting up in the morning to birds chirping and the sun rising. Not to darkness.
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They should get rid of it because you are one of the handful of Americans out there who can't adjust to time savings???

Majority of Americans, and other nations offering DST savings are heavily in favor of this.


This increases revenue, decreases accidents, decreases power consumption, reduces a ton of depression conditions, and in general allows more activity and productivity for the day.
 
pgwalsh said:
No it wasn't. Ha.. That's hilarious. Daylight savings was put into place by Benjamin Franklin to help reduce the use of candles at night. They had a wax shortage back in 1700's and this was one way to get around it.

I think they should get rid of it. It's throws people off and people have enough trouble with sleep as it is. Plus I like getting up in the morning to birds chirping and the sun rising. Not to darkness.
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I'm the opposite. I get up for work and I don't really care whether it's dark or not. On the other hand, it's nice when it's light when I leave. I'd rather have an extra hour in the evening than in the morning- as far as I'm concerned, DST all the time would be great.
 
The thing I don't understand.... If we do this to save energy, then why did I see this as a headline this morning on cnn.com?

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/11/new....retail.reut/index.htm?postversion=2007031207

I don't know about you, but I drive roughly the same distance every day/week/month.... temperature and daylight have nothing to do with it.... weather is the only thing that might effect it (I tend not to like driving when there is 2 ft. of snow on the road), but that's only a select few days out of the year...


Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

 
OSUguy98 said:
The thing I don't understand.... If we do this to save energy, then why did I see this as a headline this morning on cnn.com?

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/11/new....retail.reut/index.htm?postversion=2007031207

I don't know about you, but I drive roughly the same distance every day/week/month.... temperature and daylight have nothing to do with it.... weather is the only thing that might effect it (I tend not to like driving when there is 2 ft. of snow on the road), but that's only a select few days out of the year...


Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

Click to expand...

Do you really think that daylight savings is going to cut your costs down at the pump?
 
no... but they're saying it'll do just the opposite..... I'm saying that it shouldn't matter one way or the other


Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

 
Whoa, could've used more daylight to see For the Horde!! that I only noticed when Ockie quoted it. :p
 
HELL they want it to finally go to 2 months out of the year for DST.
I don't care if they have full year of DST or NO DST but leave it one
way or the other.

THIS changing is BS
 
I was under the impression that the whole electricity savings theory comes from the fact that sunlight before 6AM is largely wasted. Without daylight savings time, the sun would rise at round 4 to 4:30AM in June. The reason it is wasted is that hardly anyone is awake at 5 AM. Most businesses are also not open during that time.

During that same month of June the sun would set at around 8PM without the help of daylight savings time.

Basically, what we are doing is taking that hour of daylight and moving it from 4:30 in the morning to 8 at night. There are MANY TIMES more people awake at 8PM than there are at 4:30AM. What we are doing is saving electricity on all of the lighting that would normally be used from 8-9PM. Of course, we have to light our homes and businesses from 4:30 to 5:30AM instead, but since so few people are awake, we end up saving electricity.

While I hate politicians as much as anyone else (common, I am a hippie!), I really don’t think this was politically motivated. And personally, I really enjoy the extra daylight at the end of the day.
 
Sorry for double post but you can't edit in this thread I guess.

that should be 2 months a year "without" DST.
Hell given the actions of our government they will eventually find an excuse to
have DST on the weekends during that time.

no one is awake?
I guess since welfare makes it so that 30% of america is asleep during that time yep us poor working morons are the only ones up at that time.


The extra hour of daylight is killing crops and raising the cockroach populations.
 
The "premature" daylight savings changes will have very little or no effect on the conservation of energy. In general, our nation consumes the same amount energy whether it’s operating on regular time or daylight savings time. Our dependency on energy is controlled by the environment, not physical time. If it’s dark in the house, we turn the lights on; if it’s cold, we turn the heater on. Furthermore, factoring in the costs of adaptation (i.e. IT costs, development, etc.), the new energy bill may actually cost us more than save us anything...

With that said, I rather enjoy the change. Furthermore, it put a few OT bucks in my pockets. I was required by my employer to work Sunday to accommodate the change…
 
I really wish we'd do away with daylight savings time altogether - just keep the same damn time year round! I hate losing that hour of sleep...
 
I wake up before the sun rises, and I go to sleep before the sun sets atleast 95% of the time anyways(rare occasions when I actually sleep in are the other 5% maybe).

So if me getting an extra hour in the evenings, means I lose an extra hour in the morning, for me it's a zero net gain.

Oh and here's the kicker, daylight saving time was already in place to "save energy"... forgive me for getting political here, but some how I doubt that the republican controlled congress of 2005 really has the people's needs in mind when they decide energy policy for this country.
 
I propose that the world adjust their clocks 30 minutes and then just leave it alone.
 
Has anyone ran the figures to see how much this change will cost large enterprise business and health care?

Microsoft is charging $4000 bucks per site for the workstation version of the windows 2000 patch alone. Pile that in with the hours it takes to upgrade servers and workstations and your looking at a very large bill. Lets say a company has 400 servers, and each takes 30 Min, and 10000 workstations that auto update, if 200 of those 10000 doesn't auto update that is manual labor, and if 5000 of the 10000 have outlook, then that is a manual patch that needs to be ran.

IF the adv IT dude gets $20 a hour.....


Do the math, sounds crazy that it is worth the money, but what choice does anyone have? A huge joke in my book.
 
sfsuphysics said:
So if me getting an extra hour in the evenings, means I lose an extra hour in the morning, for me it's a zero net gain.
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In actual daylight time. But I know that I don't really have "leisure time" before work- I go to work and work, and have time for some breakfast and coffee. On the other hand, I'd very much like it to still be light when I'm going home, which might actually allow me to spend some enjoyable time outside.
 
neurobash said:
I really wish we'd do away with daylight savings time altogether - just keep the same damn time year round! I hate losing that hour of sleep...
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Hhhmmm... and what are your thoughts about getting that EXTRA hour of sleep in November ?
 
Meh the government just wants us to be aware that they can control time as well....
 
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