Networking rant.

K

Keiichi

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
1,491
What the heck is up with people wanting everything and the kitchen sink in their networking/server solution but only want to pay less than peanuts for it. Really makes me think I'm on Cheap|OCP and not on Hard|OCP.

/rant
 
You need only post a single line in their thread. "You get what you pay for."
 
Keiichi said:
What the heck is up with people wanting everything and the kitchen sink in their networking/server solution but only want to pay less than peanuts for it. Really makes me think I'm on Cheap|OCP and not on Hard|OCP.

/rant
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Who doesn't want more for less?

I want a Ferarri for the price of a Yugo... and I'm sure others won't argue with that either.
 
Ockie said:
Who doesn't want more for less?

I want a Ferarri for the price of a Yugo... and I'm sure others won't argue with that either.
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Please respect for Yugo (Yugoslavia car)
that has a limitted life :( on the 2009 the factory of Yugo (Zastava) i going to make Fiat cars
no more Yugo :'( :'(
 
Keiichi said:
What the heck is up with people wanting everything and the kitchen sink in their networking/server solution but only want to pay less than peanuts for it. Really makes me think I'm on Cheap|OCP and not on Hard|OCP.

/rant
Click to expand...

Could say the opposite....

Someone makes a post requesting suggestions for a 4-5 node small dentists office....some people start quoting back VMWare solutions running multiple virtual servers in full rack mount cabinets. :p

I actually see faaaaar more of those overkills..than underspec'd suggestions.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Could say the opposite....

Someone makes a post requesting suggestions for a 4-5 node small dentists office....some people start quoting back VMWare solutions running multiple virtual servers in full rack mount cabinets. :p

I actually see faaaaar more of those overkills..than underspec'd suggestions.
Click to expand...

And how often do you walk into a client and see a 3-5 year old E Machines that doubles as the secretary's desktop chugging away? Every one specs the best around here but few implement it. Sadly, even fewer take the middle ground and run with a reasonable system.
 
How is this limited to [H]ard? Everyone wants eveything and never wants to pay for it.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Could say the opposite....

Someone makes a post requesting suggestions for a 4-5 node small dentists office....some people start quoting back VMWare solutions running multiple virtual servers in full rack mount cabinets. :p

I actually see faaaaar more of those overkills..than underspec'd suggestions.
Click to expand...

Sometimes while reading posts on here i think i'm the only one that still believes keep is simple/stupid. ESXi in a dentist office is major overkil lol.

Funny, i was thinking about making a thread similar to this.
 
This happens everywhere dude.

"Why can't I run my 15 client office off the eMachines PC I bought at Best Buy? I bought a USB drive for backup."

"For 5 clients you need Cat 9+++ cableing to support Gigabit ethernet more than 25 feet, and most certainly need one server for DHCP, DNS, and firewall. One server for e-mail that must have 2 quad core Xeon's and 16 gigs of RAM. And a 3rd server for file sharing that has 8 gigs of RAM and a RAID 0+1 array with 15k SAS hard drives backing up to a fibre channel SAN."

:D
 
k1pp3r said:
Sometimes while reading posts on here i think i'm the only one that still believes keep is simple/stupid. ESXi in a dentist office is major overkil lol.

Funny, i was thinking about making a thread similar to this.
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KISS is the best rule ever. I can't stand making things way more complicated and difficult than they need be just to geek out on something.
 
valve1138 said:
This happens everywhere dude.

"Why can't I run my 15 client office off the eMachines PC I bought at Best Buy? I bought a USB drive for backup."

"For 5 clients you need Cat 9+++ cableing to support Gigabit ethernet more than 25 feet, and most certainly need one server for DHCP, DNS, and firewall. One server for e-mail that must have 2 quad core Xeon's and 16 gigs of RAM. And a 3rd server for file sharing that has 8 gigs of RAM and a RAID 0+1 array with 15k SAS hard drives backing up to a fibre channel SAN."

:D
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Dont forget the ASA 5580 Data center edge firewall, lol
 
k1pp3r said:
Sometimes while reading posts on here i think i'm the only one that still believes keep is simple/stupid. ESXi in a dentist office is major overkil lol.
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Honestly? Depends on the dental office. I worked at one where ESXi would have made perfect sense. When I started there, they had 4 servers. When I left, 12. And it wasn't me just spec'ing them out, willy nilly. I crammed as many services on each box as I felt comfortable doing ( well, a couple more on one or two of those boxes ). Simply put, if you have a client who's interested in using technology to it's fullest then you need to prepare for the future.
 
XOR != OR said:
Honestly? Depends on the dental office. I worked at one where ESXi would have made perfect sense. When I started there, they had 4 servers. When I left, 12. And it wasn't me just spec'ing them out, willy nilly. I crammed as many services on each box as I felt comfortable doing ( well, a couple more on one or two of those boxes ). Simply put, if you have a client who's interested in using technology to it's fullest then you need to prepare for the future.
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True, i have a few clients that like the best out there, and i love them, lol.

Then again, the dentist we were talking about had 5 stations, and was running 1 software package, one decent server could handle that no problem. I see a lot of over complicating here, its not just that one time
 
Yes, I have noticed many people just spew out these overly elaborate, Rube Goldberg-type solutions. Then I'm reminded of a quote I hear every now and then.. "Consulting - If you're not part of the solution, there's good money to be made prolonging the problem."

(No offense to a few of you who actually has realistic aspirations)
 
GlobalFear said:
And how often do you walk into a client and see a 3-5 year old E Machines that doubles as the secretary's desktop chugging away? Every one specs the best around here but few implement it. Sadly, even fewer take the middle ground and run with a reasonable system.
Click to expand...

Honestly..not many. I try to focus on small to medium business networks....so pretty much don't have many (by choice) "peer to peer" clients.

Walking into some old eMachine based network would be a good opportunity for me though, so actually...walking into that setup, I'd have a chance to do what I do best....convert a peer to peer network to a full server based network...ideally Small Business Server.

To me..that's a good thing. Just because they're on some underpowered crap system isn't my fault, but it can be my blessing..and opportunity to make money.

One member here and on Speedguides forums (TWW) said it best...something to the effect of "Other consultants are my best source of clients". Translation...other wannabe consultants that screw up and do a bad job...their clients get sick of them and find a real consultant (that's where I step in)
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Honestly..not many. I try to focus on small to medium business networks....so pretty much don't have many (by choice) "peer to peer" clients.

Walking into some old eMachine based network would be a good opportunity for me though, so actually...walking into that setup, I'd have a chance to do what I do best....convert a peer to peer network to a full server based network...ideally Small Business Server.

To me..that's a good thing. Just because they're on some underpowered crap system isn't my fault, but it can be my blessing..and opportunity to make money.

One member here and on Speedguides forums (TWW) said it best...something to the effect of "Other consultants are my best source of clients". Translation...other wannabe consultants that screw up and do a bad job...their clients get sick of them and find a real consultant (that's where I step in)
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This is what I like to read -- thank you. In general I have very little faith in consultants; I have had bad luck in the past dealing with some firms. Why dontcha come over to the Chicagoland area, I can give you some good work. :)
 
Blitzrommel said:
This is what I like to read -- thank you. In general I have very little faith in consultants; I have had bad luck in the past dealing with some firms. Why dontcha come over to the Chicagoland area, I can give you some good work. :)
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I run into the same thing all the time, a lot of consultants are just plain dumb. You have no idea how many times i walk to network audits and find more wrong than i can list to the client. From firewall configs, to exchange configs (open relays mostly), to quickbooks multi user setups botched.

Most consultants do just enough to keep their clients "thinking" they are doing well. Then the few good ones come in and its like a sunrise on a secluded beach.
 
I agree as well. Alot of people here will suggest overkill setups for something fairly basic, not everyone of course but enough to make it aggravating that's for sure.

As far as consultants go- I will say that the SMB market has a tough time finding quality consultants or IT staff for that matter. My company works with a lot of small banks in the midwest and there are countless times I get frustrated by some fly-by-night IT guy thinking he's got it setup right and it turns out to be a crazy mess instead. I do believe that as you start working at a larger company (say around 100 employees) you have the money to spend to get some better consultants, in my experience you can get better help if they're specialized (say VMWare or Exchange) instead of a jack of all trades. They cost more of course but that's why we have a sales staff- to make us the money to spend... :p
 
That sounds about right. As a manager it's difficult dealing with these consultants who walk in here thinking they have the solution to all of my problems, and pretending they can do everything. We have more temps than consultants, but the same thing basically applies.
 
StarTrek4U said:
I agree as well. Alot of people here will suggest overkill setups for something fairly basic, not everyone of course but enough to make it aggravating that's for sure.

As far as consultants go- I will say that the SMB market has a tough time finding quality consultants or IT staff for that matter. My company works with a lot of small banks in the midwest and there are countless times I get frustrated by some fly-by-night IT guy thinking he's got it setup right and it turns out to be a crazy mess instead. I do believe that as you start working at a larger company (say around 100 employees) you have the money to spend to get some better consultants, in my experience you can get better help if they're specialized (say VMWare or Exchange) instead of a jack of all trades. They cost more of course but that's why we have a sales staff- to make us the money to spend... :p
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Yeah, my company has a tad more than 100 employees. (~6500). I try to bring in more specialized consultants, and my boss (VP) keeps shooting down the good ones I want to bring in. Though recently, I managed to squeeze a really good firm and my boss was impressed. We're incredibly understaffed right now and I have made several attempts to bring in a permament guy, but no approvals yet. Until then, we rely on many temps and consultants for project-based work.
 
I think its hilarious when people go completely nuts and spec out a total overkill system for a mundane purpose. How often do you see this on the forums:

"I want to set up a fileserver in my basement that I can backup my porn onto. I think I may need 4xquad core xeons with 16gb and a raid 6 array. Is that enough?"

and then someone replies:

"omg dude what are you thinking, you'll never get decent performance out of that unless you use fiberchannel! Make sure you have triple-redundant power supplies too, you never know!"

:rolleyes:

Now of course for a real company it is different, but for most people's home networks an old pentium 2 system from their uncle's closet is sufficient for their server functions. I can't imagine how much power people waste on overkill home servers.
 
For home users, it's a little different. We're all here because we're computer enthuiasts; to deny such would be downright silly. Also, what suffices for one person is inadequate for the next. And, people like to future-proof as much as possible.

What we want is typically more than what joe average user would want/need *cough Ockie*. That's because we do more. :) Does that ALWAYS require such elaborate systems? Definitely not.
 
Blitzrommel said:
Yeah, my company has a tad more than 100 employees. (~6500). I try to bring in more specialized consultants, and my boss (VP) keeps shooting down the good ones I want to bring in. Though recently, I managed to squeeze a really good firm and my boss was impressed. We're incredibly understaffed right now and I have made several attempts to bring in a permament guy, but no approvals yet. Until then, we rely on many temps and consultants for project-based work.
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No doubt that 6500 is more than 100! I suppose my point was that 100 is about the threshold where you start having some money to do stuff with instead of just maintain your old POS boxes. Sucks that you can't get anyone permanent on staff... one day he'll see the light (probably much too late but hey, he's management, lol)
 
Blitzrommel said:
Yeah, my company has a tad more than 100 employees. (~6500). I try to bring in more specialized consultants, and my boss (VP) keeps shooting down the good ones I want to bring in. .
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That many people and no full time IT propeller head? Holy smokes! :eek:
 
Overclocking was a big hit because you could get more for less. Just a simple little setting to get more speed with minimal layout. Of course, better cooling is sometimes needed.

I want as much as I can for as little as I can. But, I have realistic expectations. I won't run a huge ass file server on an old Pentium 2. I want performance.

And, for networking, I am trying to use up older hardware rather than buy new stuff if I don't need to.

Why buy a huge ass quad core CPU with 16 GB of RAM to run a simple little firewall for 5 users...
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
That many people and no full time IT propeller head? Holy smokes! :eek:
Click to expand...

Oh no, we have a sizable IT staff actually -- I'm just short of desktop techs and service desk folks (Although I don't manage the help desk). I dedicated one of my techs to a desktop engineer position because our images needed more work and maintenance, so he pretty much does this, and he'll be in charge of our SCCM setup once it goes live. Oh I cannot wait until we get rid of CA Asset Managementl. But he does extremely well and this was probably one of the better choices I've made in my career so far.

But going back on topic -- I could really use one or two more desktop techs at my campus and one more at a different campus, because we just have so many projects that my guys have to drop what they're doing (mostly putting out fires) to help complete these projects, which therefore makes our ticket queue swell. It's a crappy situation, and using temps/consultants relieves it temporarily until I can get someone else in. This is relevant when we have projects that my guys aren't qualified for (and really, shouldn't be our responsibility) when consultants need to step in and help us out. Unfortuantely, most of them are morons. :)
 
Blitzrommel said:
Oh no, we have a sizable IT staff actually -- I'm just short of desktop techs and service desk folks (Although I don't manage the help desk). I dedicated one of my techs to a desktop engineer position because our images needed more work and maintenance, so he pretty much does this, and he'll be in charge of our SCCM setup once it goes live. Oh I cannot wait until we get rid of CA Asset Managementl. But he does extremely well and this was probably one of the better choices I've made in my career so far.
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Anything with CA in it sucks balls, i had to use Unicenter service desk. Hated every minute of it.
 
k1pp3r said:
Anything with CA in it sucks balls, i had to use Unicenter service desk. Hated every minute of it.
Click to expand...

Amen to that. We switched from Network Associates - Magic TSD to CA Unicenter at my old job. God was it a piece.

Now where I'm at, we use Remedy which isn't horrible, but at some point they're going to want me to implement Altiris Helpdesk Solution which I'm not exactly thrilled about. Simply because they bought the entire Altiris Suite, TMS.
 
QHalo said:
Amen to that. We switched from Network Associates - Magic TSD to CA Unicenter at my old job. God was it a piece.

Now where I'm at, we use Remedy which isn't horrible, but at some point they're going to want me to implement Altiris Helpdesk Solution which I'm not exactly thrilled about. Simply because they bought the entire Altiris Suite, TMS.
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I left the job that used Unicenter, i was happy, lol

Remedy is alright, nothing great, i really liked Heat, iHeat is pretty nice also

I'm using ConnectWise rigth now for my total CRM solution, its not bad, i would like a few enchancments though, but its nice to wrap invoicing, service desk, projects, contacts, marketing, all into one.
 
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