Network fees extremely high right now?

Discussion in 'Mining & Cryptocurrency' started by Ur_Mom, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Ur_Mom

    Ur_Mom I'm Not Serious

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    I am .0013 BTC short for making a purchase at Newegg. I bought $10 worth at Coinbase. But, to transfer $10, it'll cost $12 in network fees. Holy fuck! I know it's most likely due to the high network usage right now, but DAMN.

    How long does it take for the network to settle and those fees to drop back down to a reasonable amount? Coinbase doesn't let me change the priority to low (I don't care if it takes 8 hours). I just need to move it to my Mycelium wallet.
     
  2. ryan_975

    ryan_975 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I made a transaction three days ago, and I'm still waiting for it to confirm. Last I checked, there's something around 166,000 transactions waiting to be confirmed.
     
  3. mkrohn

    mkrohn [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nothing at all wrong with bitcoins design thats in need of a hard fork to correct.
     
  4. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

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    Chinese miners are spamming the network since they didn't get their way with the fork. Acting like children.
     
  5. Ur_Mom

    Ur_Mom I'm Not Serious

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    Dang. So, it can take a while for things to settle down then... Hopefully, the transaction fees drop a bit.

    Looking at it, I'd be paying $30+ fee for a $75 product at Newegg. Fuck that noise. I thought I'd grab it on sale, but with those fees, it's just not worth it.

    Guess I'm holding for a bit longer. I'm not making much on profit and just screwing around with BTC trying to learn more about it. It's been great so far, but these fees just skyrocketing really sucks.
     
  6. RevMen

    RevMen Limp Gawd

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    Bitcoin is broken. Old technology has reached the limits of its usefulness.

    Time to move on to the next thing.
     
  7. Probleminfected

    Probleminfected [H]ard|Gawd

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    LTC or eth is the only way for small purchases if they except it.

    Most other alts haven't even been heard of by an average person, though most haven't heard of ltc or eth either.
     
  8. mkrohn

    mkrohn [H]ard|Gawd

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    correct that increased fee is just to get you in front of the line on the transaction to be able to do it in real time.
    or are they proving that they were right the entire time? BTC needs massive upgrades and idiots can't agree on how. S2x was an improvement but not a complete solution. A real solution needs to be agreed on and put to use.
     
  9. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

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    A larger block size won't stop a DOS from Chinese miners. The network needs a way to block spam transactions rather than process them. Not much different than the various ways to stop DDOS attacks. Simple doubling your pipe won't stop it.
     
  10. Eickst

    Eickst [H]ard|Gawd

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    Chinese miners switched over to bitcoin cash after the fork was canceled. Network hash rate dropped and transaction backlog ensued. I had one tx take about 20 hours to confirm. I don't usually use BTC other than for inter exchange/account transfers and I don't even do that anymore except for withdrawing from nicehash.
     
  11. Volody

    Volody n00bie

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    yeah, fees have grown very much after the fork was canceled.
     
  12. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

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    Wouldn't it be more accurate to say, "since Jihan Wu didn't get his way and has conducted a network attack on btc"?
     
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  13. mkrohn

    mkrohn [H]ard|Gawd

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    notice I said not a complete solution? Yes fixing bitcoin takes several things. block size is only 1 step.
     
  14. cpuspeed

    cpuspeed [H]Lite

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    who gets the transaction fee? why would they have incentive to reduce the fee?
     
  15. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid [H]ard|Gawd

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    From what understand the miners get the fee.

     
  16. cpuspeed

    cpuspeed [H]Lite

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    exactly. so why would they ever stop raising the transaction fee prices regardless of the fix (e.g., fork)? as long as there is a way to influence the transaction price don't expect them not to do it. maybe it took dissatisfaction with the canceled fork to look how they could retaliate but cats out of the bag now.
     
  17. workshop35

    workshop35 Limp Gawd

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    You mean like a block size increase? Maybe lightning network? Just becsuse its not optimal right now doesnt mean upgrades wont happen.
     
  18. ryan_975

    ryan_975 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The miners don't set the transaction fees. The people sending money do by not spending all of an output TX or sending the remainder to a change address. When someone wants to give their transaction higher priority than the others that are waiting, they'll let more of their output TX's go to the miners. Miners then just pick the transactions that'll get them the best fees (though they don't HAVE to).

    A bigger block size will allow miners to pack in more transactions per block, in turn reducing the competition among senders for block space.
     
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  19. cpuspeed

    cpuspeed [H]Lite

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    as you say miner's set the fee they will take so they do set the transaction fee. appreciate the response but it seems to miss the forest by staring at the tree. the tree being miner's ability to pick the transactions they want to complete and the forest being generating false transactions to generate higher transaction fees for high priority transactions from which the miner's pick.

    a bigger block size doesn't eliminate this just raises the bar of false transactions to generate need for high priority transactions.
     
  20. Ur_Mom

    Ur_Mom I'm Not Serious

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    Ok. Question. I bought something from Newegg (.017BTC), which included Bitpay's network fee (separate from the miner fee, apparently). However, when I completed the payment, it charged me .026BTC. That's a fuck high fee. Using a Mycelium wallet, low priority, etc.. WTF is up with that shit?! Almost $80 in fee's for $130 transaction!? Over $200 for something that was only $125. That is outrageous. I've had high fees in the past, but nothing like this. And it was usually up front about it.

    Something's not right with that. Please tell me something is fucked up.

    Shit. Looked the transaction ID up... This fee was 0.00926601 BTC. What in the flying fuck!?
     
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  21. ryan_975

    ryan_975 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You forget that miners are competing with each other to be the first to solve a block. So if they create a "false" transaction (not even sure what that would be, actually), then they have a very real risk losing the attached fees to another miner. If they spam the network with feeless transactions, then they're just wasting their time because no one will pick them up thus having no effect on real fees. The problem is that block size is limited in both capacity and time.
     
  22. cpuspeed

    cpuspeed [H]Lite

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    so lets say someone spams near fee-less transactions (lower than cost of electricity to process) or low fee transactions with the point being no one wants to picks up the transaction. what does this do to transaction times because it takes some time to check these spam transactions for the fee to see if worth doing?
     
  23. oblox

    oblox Gawd

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    Look at the mempool.
     
  24. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid [H]ard|Gawd

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    I want exchange zcash for bitcoin to buy hardware. So how do they figure the transaction fees?

    What is this in bitcoin? 182 satoshis/byte? And how did you come out with the number?
     
  25. Ur_Mom

    Ur_Mom I'm Not Serious

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    It was transferred at Newegg via Bitpay (their fee was reasonable, around $3.00). The transaction fee via the Bitcoin network was .009 BTC. That's with the low priority transfer, too. I saw it was way too high, so I looked up the transaction ID and saw the correct amount plus the insane transaction fee.
     
  26. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid [H]ard|Gawd

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    So how and where do you look up the transaction ID? So Bitpay fee was small and Newegg charge to much?


     
  27. Ur_Mom

    Ur_Mom I'm Not Serious

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    No. The amount Bitbay and Newegg charged were correct. The network transaction fee was way high. I just looked it up using an online tool (I have the Trans ID in my wallet).
     
  28. KD5ZXG

    KD5ZXG Limp Gawd

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    For Bitcoin specifically, who actually pockets the fee?
     
  29. ryan_975

    ryan_975 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Whoever mines the block the transaction gets included in.
     
  30. ryan_975

    ryan_975 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm thinking that had to do with your wallet's auto-fee system.
     
  31. KD5ZXG

    KD5ZXG Limp Gawd

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    So, if one were to solo mine unwanted transactions, you might have less competition?
    How does the miner choose which transaction fees to include in his block or not?

    When mining to a pool, does the miner get a piece of the fee, or the poolkeeper gets?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017 at 2:55 PM
  32. ryan_975

    ryan_975 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You would still be competing with all other miners. The competition isn't dependent on the transactions that get included in the next block, but how fast one can find the next block that hashes to below the target value. The more compute power there is, the lower that target gets. (BTW, you can't compute a future block, so once the next block is found, you have to start over)

    it depends. If you're mining on a pool, then the pool software usually puts together the transactions for you and just sends the Merkle root created from them. The pool software is going to go for maximizing fees payments so it can pay more to the participants.
    If you're mining solo, you have the liberty of choosing which if any transactions you want to include, depending on the software you use. But you're still competing against the entire network just to find the next block.


    Depends on the pool.
     
  33. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid [H]ard|Gawd

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    I just got done with my order with Newegg and paying with BTC. Between exchange and 2 - wallet fees it came to $16.26 in fees. I seem to do better.
     
  34. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid [H]ard|Gawd

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    Forgot to mention that my transaction time was like 10 minutes.
     
  35. Ur_Mom

    Ur_Mom I'm Not Serious

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    I switched to a different wallet. Others have had similar issues, but only with the iOS wallet. I went to Jaxx instead of Mycelium. That way I can use my desktop wallet instead. Hopefully, that works a bit better.