Network Administration Career Question?

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verdell35

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I went to Devry University Online and I graduated with a 2 year Network Systems Administration degree in Oct 2008. I live in the Midwest and I just can't seem to get a foot in the door in this field. I know I have to take into account the economy at the moment. But what type of positions should I be applying for to get a start in Network administration? All my background is in Help Desk/Call Center. I have been out of work and on unemployment like the millions of unemployed since 11/19/08. So I got my degree and then got let go due to a knee surgery I had and at the company I was working for at the time; I ran out of PTO time. For who all are familiar with PTO time. I have applied for jobs in my State(no chance), I have applied for jobs in different states(no chance). I had a little hope the other day when I found out a friend of mine; who has a Master's in Engineering got a great position after 10 years of trying to get into his field; finally paid off, and they are relocating him to Atlanta. So do you really need at least a Bachelor's to get a start in my degree field? I am afraid because what you don't use; you lose. So that's why I want to get started in a company that will allow me to go back to finish my Bachelor's or Master's.
 
A lot of it comes down to job market, but a lot of it is networking too. As in, social networking. Degrees are enough to get an interview, but that's about it. They impress managers and HR.

My advice? I'd volunteer my time ( you're unemployed anyway, right? ) to local non-profits. Help them out, maybe get a receipt from the for the time spent ( depends on how this figures in to your taxes and unemployment ). This gives you two things; 1) You get experience and 2) You meet people involved within the community. They get to know you and your work. Often, they'll hear of an opening ( or have one themselves ), and bam! You're in.

That's how I'd approach it.

( for reference; I do not have any degrees or certs, but I am in constant demand now. Even with this economy, I still work 60-80 ours a week at multiple sites )
 
I know I live in KS and every time I see a job post it seems to ask for Bachelor's degree with at least one cert. In my research the only place I found so far is NC that have job postings that require you to have at least 2 year degree. I know from not going directly into a position after I graduated; my knowledge has sunk. I had one interview about 6 months ago for Jr. Network Admin and the Network guy was asking me questions and I was answering half the questions pretty good and alot of questions I was like duh. Since I have been unemployed I started working with websites to learn something new. I wish I could afford a home lab; setup a couple of Cisco routers, etc. And that would probably keep my mind fresh too.

Thanks again for your response..
 
verdell35 said:
every time I see a job post it seems to ask for Bachelor's degree with at least one cert. I wish I could afford a home lab; setup a couple of Cisco routers, etc.
Click to expand...

If everyone wants certs, what are you doing to earn certs? Start with the CCNA; you can use a free program called GNS3 to simulate routers on your PC, and build no-cost labs that way (assuming you have a copy of a real Cisco IOS image)
 
To get into a true Network Admin role experience will trump all, so don't expect to be able to land one with a 2 year degree without anything else to back it up. As others have said if you can't find work volunteer to do tech work for local non profits to keep yourself fresh and get a sense of how things need to work in a live environment. In my experience in order to get to that network admin role you need to start in a help desk/support role then work to gradually expand your skills at that job so you can either A) get promoted or B) take those skills and use them somewhere else- SMBs are great for this since they need a guy who can fill many roles.

I switched jobs earlier this year to become a Network Admin for an SMB and including my internships in college I had over 6 years of experience, and there's still much more for me to learn.
 
You are at least applying anyway right? Even if the job description says Bachelor's required..
Just get that interview and get a chance to go in and impress them. Don't let the degree requirement stop you, if you know you can do the job.
 
I am trying to get in NOC (network operation center) at a place I work at. currently I am working for a small ISP company as tech support.
 
I'm going to pipe up here and say that, as a networking student myself (self-study atm, I don't have the time nor resources for school atm), social networking has been the best help for me so far.

Joining in the PeerIX Project has been a great learning experience for me. I've also re-established ties with some of my old school friends who are involved in IT and networking, and so I've got a few guys willing to provide good references and keep their eyes open for opportunities for me.

IMO, a bit of social networking is probably going to be better for your chances than the 2 years you put into Devry...
 
If you want to be an admin, you need to first prove yourself in the field. That usually means working your way up from help desk work. The more you learned at Devry, the faster you will be able to climb, but you can't expect to just 'step into' an admin-level position without experience.
 
without the professional experience in the field, it's all about starting at the bottom and climbing up.

That's exactly what I did.

started out as tech support for an ISP. Worked my way to up a field tech, then back to the desk jockey as a level 2 tech support, then back to the field as a field tech but then they also started getting into contract IT work.
after they screwed me over, I managed to get a job as a tech 1 for the state. Got moved up to a tech 2, which was all still just tech support.

Then just a couple months ago a Spec I position opened up, so I applied. I got it.

I only have an associate's in Comp Sci, with only an MCP.

I just proved that I am eager to do the job and learn. Although we don't do much networking-related stuff anymore, mostly just system administration, it's the same basic concept.
 
IT jobs up here, is mostly WHO you know, and certs, degrees both mean nothing. Experience is everything, certs help if you have no background but you'll still have to start somewhere and get to know people.
 
I definitely believe it's time for another plan since I have been on unemployment for 10 months and that's about to end on the 10th. When I worked at Garmin(my last position); I met a guy who worked for another company in the building as a Network Engineer. And I asked him how the heck do you get a start; when you have no work experience for your degree. And he told me that he didn't even have a degree or cert. He just did few odds and ends jobs back in the day; then he went on a few interviews and landed the job he was in. And he told me he recently hired a kid who just finished his degree, so he hired this young guy as a Jr Admin to do simple tasks in the network. And after he told me this I was like Popeye-"Well blow me down".

But I know one of these days my break will come. Like I explained before; the past 3 or 4 years that is what I have done is Help desk and at Garmin I did Tier II software support. And trust me out of 10 months believe me I have applied for Help desk, Network Support, etc. But still to no avail. I was joking with my wife the other; I was like; "what have I been work blackballed?" Ha, Ha, Ha I also posted my resume here for someone to look at to see if I not doing something quit right?
 
I agree with the others - you need to get your foot in the door at the bottom and work your way up. I'm currently a systems admin, after hiring in as entry-level Helpdesk, then getting promoted up to "Senior Helpdesk". I moved into the admin position about 20 months after I was first hired in, so you don't necessarily have to grind away for years as a peon to get somewhere.

It is also about who you know. My cousin actually works here too, and originally passed the job posting to me. My first interview was horrible - I was going through a bad point in my life and just had a really, really bad phone interview. They basically crossed me off the list as soon as we hung up. About a year later, some people were shifting around so they had another opening in that position, and I got a second chance (though the first interviewer said she wouldn't talk to me again). The other stuff in my life had improved quite a bit and I had a much better interview. I got hired in and impressed a lot of people pretty quickly, once they actually got a chance to see what I could do.

I also did some work for some tech-centric contracting firms. On one job, the client was very impressed with our team's work and actually exchanged info with us so that he could request us specifically for future jobs. Obviously that doesn't mean you're going to automatically get a job with them, but it gets your name out there with a good reputation, if something does happen to come up.

One thing that was suggested to me when I was looking was to try to make a deal with them regarding hiring you. Hire in on a temp basis or with a trial period or something. I never really got into a situation to do that, but the idea is to make it really easy to get rid of you if it's not working out. If they can easily get rid of you, they won't be quite as cautious about "wasting their time" to hire you. It also shows some confidence on your part - "I'll let you get rid of me anytime you want, but I know that you won't want to once you see me in action."

Once you do get hired in somewhere, my advice is to constantly try to improve yourself and the job. You may need to be careful about stepping on toes or getting outside your area, but try to do more than the bare minimum. I'm a natural fixer and problem solver, and I just started working on fixing inefficiencies and stupid processes that interfered with what I did. I tried to learn more about the systems, as it made it easier to troubleshoot them on Helpdesk. You can earn a lot of respect by tackling a problem because it was something that needed to be done rather than just because it was something that your job required you to do. The real problems aren't about knowing which button to push to fix the problem, but about having the skills to figure out how to solve the problem. Anyone can be trained to push the right buttons in the right order, but it takes a certain type of person to be able to logically work their way to a solution.
 
I will share my story with you...

First, I too am from the Midwest (Indiana). I finished my BS in Computer Information Network Technology (Cisco, Microsoft, A+, Linux, a little of everything under the sun). For my Senior year I got an internship at an ISP/Consulting company. The company was small (when I quit they had 5 employees), but they had a lot of clients (the entire county). Getting this job wasn't too hard, because they hired strictly guys from our college (they were grads also). Using this knowledge as a consultant, I went out after graduation and partnered up with a buddy as a consultant. This was short lived since he went to school and I was without work for 4 months.

Digressing a bit, towards the end of the internship I started searching for permanent work (May '07). Fastforward to Aug '08, I am unable to find work, or much less get a call back! That's with a BS and 1 year of experience in the field (not to mention Network Administrator as my title for some of that year...). I began searching for not for profit work, listed myself on Craigslist for free Tech work, and began really pushing for CCNA and M$ certs. I was forced to take a job at Wal-Mart stocking shelves (in the frozen food/dairy department!)

After about 8-9 months of this I finally hear back from 2 companies at the same time. One, a consulting company with schools, banks, and tons of local clients. The other a local business, looking for a Junior Network Administrator. Reviewing both jobs, taking into account I had a massively negative experience as a consultant, I decided to go with the Junior Network Admin position. I simply lucked out that they needed someone immediately, and used Monster. They even pulled an old resume of mine that didn't include some of my consulting experience. They hired me because I have lots of end user support time, and experience with imaging (which I got in 2003 my senior year of high school).

As it stands I am in charge of the grunt work, installing things, fixing user issues, and minor server support.

Now as you can see it is POSSIBLE to find work without networking, but I know for sure that if I had succeeded in networking more I would have found a job between 2007 and 2008 when I was looking, instead of end of 2009 as I did.

Cliff's notes: Have a B.S. and 1 year of experience, no certs, no connections, took almost 2 years to get a job. Be persistent and network as much as you can. Experience is KING in IT.

Rationale: People have finally come around to realize that College Degrees are being minted, en mass, by the universities. The proof in this is that the courses I took were so easy, I maintain I did maybe, MAYBE 21 hours of homework and studied about as many hours in 5 years of college. I am as good as I am because of my personal interest in the topic and the voluntary hours I spent in the lab...teaching others as well as myself.

In the 80s and even 90s fewer people were getting degrees, and it was all about that. Thats why its ingrained in all of us, brought up in these years, that we MUST get a degree. I feel that my degree has been largely worthless in getting me a job (refer to my story of the last 3 years). If I had gotten into IT after some short coursework senior year of high school, by now I would be that golden title (Network Administrator). This should re-emphasize that you should be doing free tech work and getting your feet wet and some projects under your belt.
 
That last story let's me know not to give up for every 'No" that I receive from a potential employer; one of these days it will turn into a "Yes". So I thank everyone here for the inspiration to press on. I guess I need to keep fighting to see if I can get somewhere to make my way up in the ranks.

I figure I should take what I have learned all these years in my work history and self taught computer skills and combine those first; which would be Technical support for a year, Help Desk for a year, and Tier II software support for a year; and see what positions I can fit into with those skills before I try tackling a Networking position.

I had this one company called about 3 weeks ago in which the position was combined into one(Help Desk, Networking, Web Design, Programming) and they wanted someone who wants to learn all aspects. This company gets you positions that are permanent placement, I emailed her again last to see if she heard anything back but, she told me the CIO hasn't contacted her back yet. So even though I believe this position would be perfect for my set of experience; I still can't put my eggs into one basket.

So thanks again, folks. :)
 
Never wait for one job offer to pan out when you could be looking elsewhere, even if it is your dream job.

You stated you went to DeVry; they have career services and job placement assistance that your should be using. They also have job listings on the website for students and grads.

I did some work for a friend I had just met fixing his son's computer and he put me in touch with a guy that owned an IT consulting company which let me learn on many different environments and see a wide array of technologies. That led to my current job as an IT Manager, but I have a Bachelor's which had some business and management courses in it beyond the normal networking and server courses.
 
it took me... ummmm.... 2-3 years to find a job ANYWHERE in the computer-field AFTER I graduated with my Associate's in Comp Sci and holding an MCP cert. It was depressing being a college grad and still working at wal-mart (I stuck it out there for 5 yrs and 3 months)

But, after getting my first GOOD job, I acceled quickly, and got multiple promotions (3 promotions in ~2yrs). Then when I moved on to where I am now, I've been promoted twice in less than a year and a haf.
 
I have been utilizing the Hire Devry but, still nothing. And I know Shelly in career services sent out emails to people still seeking work. And I gave a full description of what's been going on with me since graduation. I have always done odd computer repair jobs since '94 but, it's never for someone who can put me in contact with someone they know. I wish they did know someone in I.T..

I have one good friend I use for work reference, He has a Master's in Electrical Engineering and I did work with him back in the day on some electrical assistant and computer repair work he was bringing me. And he was an Electrical Engineer back in the 60's,70's, & 80's. But he is now a High School Teacher. But heck, he called me the other and said, he just went unemployed. So he no longer has any connections he could relay me too. But I truly thank God for him because he has been my biggest supporter next to my wife. That it won't always be like this...

The closest I came to doing any Networking is when I worked with 1 Network Engineering at Avila University.. This was a small shop and none of them are no longer there themselves except the person I worked under in Help desk. He had me troubleshooting the routers, opening the port to the routers, we installed all the Cisco Wireless Access points throughout the campus, we installed 8 routers for the new building, But now that he's gone from I can use him as a reference anymore. And I can truly say it felt good to do that type of work.

Then that job ended because they fazed out the Help desk because it was a high turnover position; I was the last one to hang on. So when they let me go; that when the Garmin called me the same day.
 
XOR != OR said:
A lot of it comes down to job market, but a lot of it is networking too. As in, social networking. Degrees are enough to get an interview, but that's about it. They impress managers and HR.

My advice? I'd volunteer my time ( you're unemployed anyway, right? ) to local non-profits. Help them out, maybe get a receipt from the for the time spent ( depends on how this figures in to your taxes and unemployment ). This gives you two things; 1) You get experience and 2) You meet people involved within the community. They get to know you and your work. Often, they'll hear of an opening ( or have one themselves ), and bam! You're in.

That's how I'd approach it.

( for reference; I do not have any degrees or certs, but I am in constant demand now. Even with this economy, I still work 60-80 ours a week at multiple sites )
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I would do. Non profits are always looking for people to do free tech work. They will help get you introduced to people who can name drop you to people looking for tech help and you will get references which are critical.

Some of the non profits will even work to get grant money to at least pay you something for your time once your helping out. Most employers out there don't know what a CCNA or Network+ is but if you have a BA and some glowing references from reputible non profits that they have heard of your gonna get a job.
 
Keep your chin up Verdell, you are obviously motivated and that's what matters. Lots of good points here. I would say try looking at some bigger cities, and don't be a afraid to fake it til you make it a little.
 
Find the local Cisco, linux, computer, anything IT related user group, and start attending the meetings..

Computer networking is not the only type of networking you shlould be good at to get the job..
 
timreichhart said:
I am trying to get in NOC (network operation center) at a place I work at. currently I am working for a small ISP company as tech support.
Click to expand...

+1

Fastest way into getting real IT jobs. Get an 11 dollar an hour job at a NOC. You might be a reboot monkey but once they notice your real skills they will be happy to underpay you for your services. You will have the opportunity to learn most platforms. Also datacenters have tons of overqualified people to learn from who are too lazy to find better. There is tons of these opportunities in Texas.
 
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