Net Neutrality Going down in Flames

Koween said:
Just looking at the shitty internet speeds you guys get in the states and the price it costs where one of these isp giants is involvesd shoud be a wake up call and a good reason for the government to regulate it. You have bandwidth caps? Wth is this, dial-up?
There is no competition between ISPs left - it seems that there's basically a single big-boy ISP per region.
I'm sitting here with a 300/300 fiber (can go up to 1000/1000) in the middle of nowhere between mountains in Norway (which is quite regulated by the government) the reason it is like that because there is some competition here - in a small village we have a choice of five different ISPs. Used to live in eastern europe too - the competition was really high between ISPs and 100/100 was pretty much basic.
Watching content made by youtubers living around the LA area I'm shocked something like 50/10 being top of the line...
I'm not trying to brag or anything like that, but maybe it's something you guys could learn from some other countries. Sometimes government regulation is needed to keep the corporations in check a little.
Ofc, maybe I'm wrong and don't have the full picture - it's not easy keeping up with it :)
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The difference is in Norway, while your government has it's fair share of faults, it's halls of lawmakers are NOT filled with over 90% crooks & compulsive liars who sold their vote & support to the wealthy elite for bribe (lobby) money. Norway from my limited experience has a functioning government that, for the most part, serves & has it's citizens best interest at heart. In the United States our Federal Government is DOMINATED (more like subjugated) by the interests of Multinational Corporations, Elite Banking Cartels, Special Interests groups, and the Military Industrial Complex. Our "elected" politicians are employee's of the four aforementioned groups (in all but title, save a few rouge principled ones). With FEW exceptions, the occasional laws that get passed in the U.S. that actually benefit the average citizen is bread crumbs (token gestures) and PALES in comparison to the obscene amount of sweetheart deals & financial support that Wall Street receives. America is a Plutocracy...
 
I've said it before, but the problem is that America is too big for it's own good. America is a nation so large that it effectively places 321.4 million people in the same fuck basket, thereby allowing corporations and industries to fuck over every citizen who lives in a 3.797 million square mile land mass by bribing 535~ politicians through lobbyists or speaking fees.

Europeans live in nice small countries where they can more readily affect political change, and they can look around and see the standard of living of citizens in neighboring countries. They know when their getting fucked, they can point to their contemporaries, and it's damn near impossible to put them all in the same fuck basket unlike our nation.
 
Of course as consumers we have complete control, we are the only ones with the power to force change. The issue is that we're so useless, so lost in our own consumerism that we're completely incapable of voting with our back pockets and saying NO to the products these large corporations are peddling.

We're addicted to the lure of new, shiny shit and while our own actions are going to screw us royally it's future generations that are really going to pay the price of our ignorance - As a father of a 7yo Daughter, I really do worry about what the future holds for her.
 
BulletDust said:
Of course as consumers we have complete control, we are the only ones with the power to force change. The issue is that we're so useless, so lost in our own consumerism that we're completely incapable of voting with our back pockets and saying NO to the products these large corporations are peddling.

We're addicted to the lure of new, shiny shit and while our own actions are going to screw us royally it's future generations that are really going to pay the price of our ignorance - As a father of a 7yo Daughter, I really do worry about what the future holds for her.
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The problem with this sentiment, as usual, is that the individual has no real power to "vote with his wallet". It takes huge numbers of people with the same mindset and willingness to sacrifice to accomplish anything. Just look at the numbers of people "cutting the cord" and see how slow the media giants are moving in response. Heck, with all the people cutting the cord we actually had/have Internet providers making things more difficult on them by throttling services like Netflix and Amazon Video as a big "fuck you" for doing exactly what you stated and voting with their wallets. You have companies with the worst rated customer service like Comcast still getting new customers on a daily basis because they have a stranglehold on the information highway in the form of regional monopolies.

IMO, we've reached or actually passed the point where consumer opinions are completely overshadowed by corporate greed and power and the only options are regulation or a complete reset of our society.
 
farscapesg1 said:
The problem with this sentiment, as usual, is that the individual has no real power to "vote with his wallet". It takes huge numbers of people with the same mindset and willingness to sacrifice to accomplish anything. Just look at the numbers of people "cutting the cord" and see how slow the media giants are moving in response. Heck, with all the people cutting the cord we actually had/have Internet providers making things more difficult on them by throttling services like Netflix and Amazon Video as a big "fuck you" for doing exactly what you stated and voting with their wallets. You have companies with the worst rated customer service like Comcast still getting new customers on a daily basis because they have a stranglehold on the information highway in the form of regional monopolies.

IMO, we've reached or actually passed the point where consumer opinions are completely overshadowed by corporate greed and power and the only options are regulation or a complete reset of our society.
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Of course the real issue is that as a western society we are trained and complacent. We're so trained and complacent that, as evidenced by your post, we see ourselves as no more than individuals with little to no control over the society we live in, completely lacking any ability to fight the system whatsoever as we're fooled into believing that as individuals our opinion does not matter.

Throughout history people have risen above unimaginable odds and won, but as consumers we're so busy looking at our phones most of the time that we can't even look up to cross the road let alone fight for what's right, actually fight for our better interests. Hell, people on these very forums are completely complacent and actually willing to accept situations where their personal data is literally harvested in return for money they'll never see!

If that's the case, if as a society we're that piss weak, than PM me your bank account details and PIN numbers and I'll take what I think is mine.
 
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BulletDust said:
Of course the real issue is that as a western society we are trained and complacent. We're so trained and complacent that, as evidenced by your post, we see ourselves as no more than individuals with little to no control over the society we live in, completely lacking any ability to fight the system whatsoever as we're fooled into believing that as individuals our opinion does not matter.

Throughout history people have risen above unimaginable odds and won, but as consumers we're so busy looking for at our phones most of the time that we can't even look up to cross the road let alone fight for what's right, actually fight for our better interests. Hell, people on these very forums are completely complacent and actually willing to accept situations where their personal data is literally harvested in return for money they'll never see!

If that's the case, if as a society we're that piss weak than PM me your bank account details and PIN numbers and I'll take what I think is mine.
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I agree with you, but.. as current status, nothing is happening that will move anyone to do anything.
Yes groups rise and provoke change, but its typically in the face of huge injustice, not 'net neutrality' (as fucked up as this whole mess is)
Most lay person don't even give a shit about the cable bill and being ripped off either.
 
Open comments to the FCC on Net Neutrality and Title II have reopened. File your comment here (click express on the page)...

https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/proceedings?q=name:((17-108))

My comments to the FCC....

I STRONGLY support Title II and urge the FCC to preserve real Net Neutrality by keeping Title II as is. The fallacy arguments chairman Pai has spoken in favor of Title II rollback are (and I'm being charitable here) "short sighted" at best. If Title II status is removed, it will lay the foundation for the slow but steady Corporatization of the Internet.


It starts with "seemingly" innocuous changes like fast lanes, but it wont stop there. Multinational Corporate giants like Verizon, Comcast, AT&T, Time Warner, Disney, CBS, and NBC will lead the charge in reshaping the internet in THEIR image. A future internet where the American people pay more for less, censorship (particularly of small non mainstream journalism), and a general reduction of currently enjoyed freedoms that the Internet offers. The aforementioned Corporations will "bit by bit" through lobbying (bribing) Congress, will fully exploit the loss of Title II protections to push for new laws and regulations that overwhelmingly benefit them at the collective expense of the American people.


I'm old enough to have lived when Television had over 40 unique television broadcast networks. Thank's in no small part the "bit by bit" loosening (aka "Light Touch" regulation) of FCC rules & oversight (starting in the 1970's), today four Corporate Titans dominate over 90% of television (Disney, NBC, CBS, and Time Warner). Television and to a lesser (but still serious) extent Radio is dominated and monopolized by a handful of giant Multinational Corporations who have a long well established history of playing dirty to crush or "force" the sellout of any small promising upstart in Radio and Television.


The internet is the ONE and ONLY communications medium NOT dominated and monopolized by giant Corporations. Net Neutrality is the linchpin in making the Internet arguably the greatest invention of the 20th Century, Without strong regulatory rules (Net Neutrality & Title II) and strong enforcement from the FCC to "smack the overreaching tirelessly scheming hands of greedy Telecom & Media Corporations" the Internet is on track to face a similar fate that has befallen Television and Radio.
 
jegbus said:
Some people might find Pai's dissenting opinion regarding adoption of Title II interesting.
https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-14-61A5.pdf
https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-14-61A5.pdf
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I was going to post that anytime Comcast is on one side of a table and Netflix is on the other, I don't have to think too hard about which side I want to walk to. Pai's comments, however, present a similar litmus test:

If we are to take the D.C. Circuit at its word, section 706 grants the FCC virtually unfettered authority to encourage broadband adoption and deployment.10 So if three members of the FCC think that more Americans would go online if they knew their information would be secure, could we impose cybersecurity and encryption standards on website operators? If three members of the FCC think that more Americans would purchase broadband if edge providers were prohibited from targeted advertising, could we impose Do Not Track regulations? Or if three members of the FCC think that more Americans would use the Internet if there were greater privacy protections, could we follow the European Union and impose right-to-be-forgotten mandates? And because section 706 gives state commissions authority equal to the FCC,11 every broadband provider, every online innovator, every Internet-enabled entrepreneur may now have to comply with differing regulations in each of the 50 states. Tesla, Uber, Airbnb, and countless others can attest to the welcome that parochial regulators give to disruptive start-ups.
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Pai is casting enforced cybersecurity/encryption, enforced Do Not Track policies, and right to be forgotten mandates as bad ideas and Uber's legal struggles as a David v. Goliath (wherein they are the hero and the local governments are the evil Goliath). If you think those policies are good ideas then you know Pai does not speak for you. If you want more Uber-esque start-ups skirting existing law and eliciting an actual negative global reaction to the way it conducts itself in the business space, then you know Pai and you agree fundamentally.

As an aside, I *do* find it interesting that Pai is backhanding local governments in this statement, which is odd given that the logic we usually get from those opposed to federal regulation is that local governance is better equipped to handle local affairs of its population. In fact, someone reiterated that logic just recently in the response to European broadband access (that European countries are smaller, their governance is more localized, and that both politicians and citizens can be more nimble and adaptive).

Yet, when the rubber hits the road we can see where those kinds of positions seem to be mere platitudes in order to convince people that it sounds like a good idea but in reality the person making those statements would prefer no regulation at all at either the federal, state, or municipal level.

Follow the bouncing ball:
When shedding federal regulation is the goal, local legislation is cast as a more desirable substitute.
When shedding all regulation, however, local legislation is cast as despotic and byzantine.

I put forth that when the same person makes both arguments that we should scrutinize that person more closely because I don't agree with letting someone have it both ways or as the saying goes, eating one's cake and having it, too.
 
nysmo said:
I hear Syria is nice this time of year. They're pretty gov't free.
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Oh man, it is nice year long. You should see their women, they are quite hot, the normal ones that is. But a lot of Syrians follow Christianity, so their women don't hide.
Iran, Syria, Lebanon.... way too many hot women. Good thing Sweden is importing so much, Swedish women are trying to erase gender differences, so they are way too feminist and not enough feminine :D
 
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