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.NET developer starting pay?
- Thread starter tgabe213
- Start date
I think the cost of those services only starts making sense at 100k+ or so...
heatlesssun
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I've been in the IT field for almost 20 years, my first full time job while still in in college paid me about $20k in 1991. Not good pay at the even at the time but the flexability of the job while in college made it a good deal for me at the time.
These days I work at a mega bank as a senior level developer, primary .NET work and the money's not like it was back in the dot com days (.NET wasn't around before the dot com bust actually) but its not bad, not 100+k in NC anymore but fairly close.
These days I work at a mega bank as a senior level developer, primary .NET work and the money's not like it was back in the dot com days (.NET wasn't around before the dot com bust actually) but its not bad, not 100+k in NC anymore but fairly close.
Yep. One can hire a good accountant to help w/ personal taxes for about 200 bucks. That's less than H&R Block (although 3-4 times as much as filing online yourself). It easily pays for itself.
As does investment advice; it's far more important earlier on in your investment career.
My point was, though, that a degree (or some certificates) don't entitle you to anything. You might get a great job, you might get no job. And looking at only salary is not really long-term thinking. Microsoft, back in the day, notoriously paid 20 or 30% less in salary than the rest of the industry. But practically anyone who has a clue about financial management and was employed at Microsoft at that time is a millionaire because of the benefits available at the company. Plus, they have "Microsoft" on their resume--and probably have very substantial experience in large-scale product management or software development.
My point was, though, that a degree (or some certificates) don't entitle you to anything. You might get a great job, you might get no job. And looking at only salary is not really long-term thinking. Microsoft, back in the day, notoriously paid 20 or 30% less in salary than the rest of the industry. But practically anyone who has a clue about financial management and was employed at Microsoft at that time is a millionaire because of the benefits available at the company. Plus, they have "Microsoft" on their resume--and probably have very substantial experience in large-scale product management or software development.
Heh, been in the field for 12 years now, doing .net since the beta days. Im making slightly over the range you gave. I was making closer to $100k... then economy tanked. If you have a job making more than $70k right now, as much as it could suck, keep it
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v6maro
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Michigan
@0yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 50k - 1500 employees
@2 yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 70k - 21 employees
@4yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 85k - 75 employees
@6yrs exp(w/.net) i was making 108k - 50 employees (+ 1000 offshore employees)
Damn! I'm in Michigan as well and not doing so hot these days even with all my experience. Where are you located?
As being new developers, and probably just out of college, you probably really didn't have much experience at all. What are employers expecting out of you on the first few weeks per say? You know *some* of the language, but obviously not an expert. How are they going to build your knowledge up? Do they start you on some smaller tasks and work up from there? Do they typically expect you to be able to hammer something big out?
nameless_centurian
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i generally don't talk about myself as much as i have in this thread because i know that what i have "accomplished" isn't terribly impressive in the grand scheme of things, but i will talk about it again for illustrative purposes.
in reference to tgabe213's last post i will make comment.
my education and work path has only really started to develop in the past two years. starting my senior year of college in 2007, i interned at a defense contractor for what was honestly great pay for an intern. i got a LOT more than money out of it, though. the first parts of my internship were highly technical but involved very little actual engineering of a product because my bosses at the time (who were intelligence analysts, not engineers) didn't think it was necessary. i learned very quickly then that you CANNOT expect to build any project beyond some simple things without putting a lot of forethought into it. over the course of the first year at my internship while i was getting my master's degree, i made it a point to surround myself with seasoned developers and learn the process the best i could, despite not being on a project that adhered to good design and maintenance processes.
when that project finally ended, i asked to be moved onto a project with a more formal development pattern... any project. i am a bit-flipping/systems kind of guy, but the only offer i was given was for a web project. i took the offer. i hated every minute of developing on that project, but soaked everything in. i got face time with the client. i traveled to meet the client and talk to them face to face about requirements and how the system was to be used. i sat in on all the meetings, observing and offering ideas. honestly, i was treated as a professional developer even though i was just an intern.
while on this second project, i learned how to gather requirements (in a generic way, not specific to any methodology). i learned how to think of myself as a user and not merely as the guy coding the system. when the client's suggestions of how the interface should work were not going to be intuitive for a user, i let them know and suggested an alternative (sometimes it was accepted, sometimes it wasn't). i learned how to work in a team environment, managing a code base with 6 other people (a small project, i know). i learned how to be accountable for the code that i changed in the repository. i learned how to properly diagnose and report issues with the system, even if i didn't have a really good idea of how the code underneath worked and if it was never my problem to begin with. i learned how to budget time and allocate days for testing.
the most important thing that i learned at this internship wasn't .NET or Coldfusion or any technology, it was the basics of how to engineer a product. in grad. school, i took a couple software engineering classes in addition to my computer science classes and learned some scientific ways of doing things... like how to properly assign tests based upon your risk tolerance, how often a module is used, the necessary reliability, and considerations of concurrent uses of the same system on many different instances (if your control software for a 747 needs to have 99.999% reliability, but you have 200 planes in the air running the same software at any given time, you need to account for this!).
all of these experiences and classes combined allowed me to show myself as valuable to prospective employers. i got a job offer that is roughly equal to that of developers with 3 years experience in this region (and actually higher if you consider all of the smaller companies in the area), even though i had _NO_ full-time job experience when applying and didn't really have any familiarity with this organization's particular development process.
my point is this: don't worry so much about a specific technology. make yourself valuable by learning how to develop software.
in reference to tgabe213's last post i will make comment.
my education and work path has only really started to develop in the past two years. starting my senior year of college in 2007, i interned at a defense contractor for what was honestly great pay for an intern. i got a LOT more than money out of it, though. the first parts of my internship were highly technical but involved very little actual engineering of a product because my bosses at the time (who were intelligence analysts, not engineers) didn't think it was necessary. i learned very quickly then that you CANNOT expect to build any project beyond some simple things without putting a lot of forethought into it. over the course of the first year at my internship while i was getting my master's degree, i made it a point to surround myself with seasoned developers and learn the process the best i could, despite not being on a project that adhered to good design and maintenance processes.
when that project finally ended, i asked to be moved onto a project with a more formal development pattern... any project. i am a bit-flipping/systems kind of guy, but the only offer i was given was for a web project. i took the offer. i hated every minute of developing on that project, but soaked everything in. i got face time with the client. i traveled to meet the client and talk to them face to face about requirements and how the system was to be used. i sat in on all the meetings, observing and offering ideas. honestly, i was treated as a professional developer even though i was just an intern.
while on this second project, i learned how to gather requirements (in a generic way, not specific to any methodology). i learned how to think of myself as a user and not merely as the guy coding the system. when the client's suggestions of how the interface should work were not going to be intuitive for a user, i let them know and suggested an alternative (sometimes it was accepted, sometimes it wasn't). i learned how to work in a team environment, managing a code base with 6 other people (a small project, i know). i learned how to be accountable for the code that i changed in the repository. i learned how to properly diagnose and report issues with the system, even if i didn't have a really good idea of how the code underneath worked and if it was never my problem to begin with. i learned how to budget time and allocate days for testing.
the most important thing that i learned at this internship wasn't .NET or Coldfusion or any technology, it was the basics of how to engineer a product. in grad. school, i took a couple software engineering classes in addition to my computer science classes and learned some scientific ways of doing things... like how to properly assign tests based upon your risk tolerance, how often a module is used, the necessary reliability, and considerations of concurrent uses of the same system on many different instances (if your control software for a 747 needs to have 99.999% reliability, but you have 200 planes in the air running the same software at any given time, you need to account for this!).
all of these experiences and classes combined allowed me to show myself as valuable to prospective employers. i got a job offer that is roughly equal to that of developers with 3 years experience in this region (and actually higher if you consider all of the smaller companies in the area), even though i had _NO_ full-time job experience when applying and didn't really have any familiarity with this organization's particular development process.
my point is this: don't worry so much about a specific technology. make yourself valuable by learning how to develop software.
As an entry-level developer, you will get mostly code maintenance and documentation tasks.
They would want you to accustom yourself with the rest of the senior developer's style/technique of coding.
Only 'till then you'll know where you fit in the team.
In contrast, senior-level developers are expected to produce results "out of the box".
Cobalt2112
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I live Northern NJ ... doing C# and SharePoint ... base salary is a few 100 $ shy of $100K (but actually w/ bonus I do make over $100K)
The company I work for outsources to Infosys (both India and US) however we don't seem to have very good luck with productivity and efficiency unless they sit right next to us.
We're in the CGP industry w/ 100,000+ employee company
The company I work for outsources to Infosys (both India and US) however we don't seem to have very good luck with productivity and efficiency unless they sit right next to us.
We're in the CGP industry w/ 100,000+ employee company
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Salary isn't the only thing to look at. I make $65K with 4-years of experience. Doesn't sound like much, but the key is I live in a market where I bought my 3 bed, 2 bath house in the nice part of town for $140,000. I pay nothing for Medical/Dental/Vision but a $10 copay if I go to the doctor. Our work atmosphere is awesome and I can come in wearing pajamas and nobody would even give me a second look. You'd have to offer me somewhere in the $100K range for me to even consider going to a larger place with a more corporate atmosphere.
Point being...once you get to a certain level, salary becomes very unimportant as long as you're smart with your money and don't try to keep up with the Joneses who are probably living on credit cards anyway
Point being...once you get to a certain level, salary becomes very unimportant as long as you're smart with your money and don't try to keep up with the Joneses who are probably living on credit cards anyway
Point being...once you get to a certain level, salary becomes very unimportant as long as you're smart with your money and don't try to keep up with the Joneses who are probably living on credit cards anyway
Money has a little property to it.... there is never enough
Don't get me wrong. More money is always nice...it's just not worth being miserable at your job to get it
A requirement to wear a tie is equal about 15k in my salary negotiations
Stupendous
[H]ard|Gawd
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I'm in Phoenix with a bachelors. I had 3 years of .NET experience from school. No real world experience. Only job I ever had was doing IT stuff with minor programming.
My base pay, bonuses (profit sharing and performance with respect to peers).
2005: $53K, $2K
2006: $58K, $5K
2007: $73K, $7K
2008: $83K, $12K
2009: $87K, $18K est.
They expect basic Computer Science skills that you should have just coming out college. These will get verified in your interview(s). But you should know the basics of the language. Once you join you'll learn more on the go. When I started I also received books to learn patterns, smells, refactorings, TDD, etc.
And I joined a group that practices Agile Software Management. We do pair programming so a lot of my learning came from working with a senior developer or coach. I picked things up quickly so I was driving (taking over the keyboard) in just a month. I was leading pairing sessions when working with some of the other "senior" developers. Your manager/coach should recognize your strengths so he/she will assigns tasks accordingly.
My base pay, bonuses (profit sharing and performance with respect to peers).
2005: $53K, $2K
2006: $58K, $5K
2007: $73K, $7K
2008: $83K, $12K
2009: $87K, $18K est.
They expect basic Computer Science skills that you should have just coming out college. These will get verified in your interview(s). But you should know the basics of the language. Once you join you'll learn more on the go. When I started I also received books to learn patterns, smells, refactorings, TDD, etc.
And I joined a group that practices Agile Software Management. We do pair programming so a lot of my learning came from working with a senior developer or coach. I picked things up quickly so I was driving (taking over the keyboard) in just a month. I was leading pairing sessions when working with some of the other "senior" developers. Your manager/coach should recognize your strengths so he/she will assigns tasks accordingly.
I think I'm going to have a hard time finding somewhere that is looking for the 'new guy'. I had just recently applied for a position that had posted requirements of an Associates degree (I'm 6 months from a bachelors), and 1-3 years experience. When I see that 1, is it wrong that I'm under the assumption that they are looking for someone a little new? When I called to follow up submitting my resume, I got to speak with the manager. Aside from school at night getting in the way, he felt that I didn't have the necessary experience and I wouldn't be getting trained.
How am I supposed to get this experience? All other jobs posted are 2-5 years, so they don't want they new guy.
How am I supposed to get this experience? All other jobs posted are 2-5 years, so they don't want they new guy.
Does your school have any sort of job fairs or placement services? I got my first job out of school by talking to a company that came to the school's career fair. The job was working on automated regression testing and it sucked, but it gave me that mythical year of experience that the good companies desired. The economy is a bit different now than when I graduated, but I have faith you'll still be able to find a job. Prepare yourself to live modestly and start at the bottom. If you prove yourself to be one of the elite, you will move up VERY fast. Good luck!
I skipped some fluff in the middle, but in South Bend, IN - internships pay about $12 an hour for full time for starting ASP.NET, SQL Server, C# developers. A Entry level position nets you around $40K per year with those skills, or any other development (C, MySQL, ASP/Ruby/Http ... ) for that matter. And finally, if you are well experienced, then $60K to start. Project Managers tend to make around $80 and Department managers start at $100K-120K. So while you might see some really nice pay scales listed, the reality is a little lower in some parts of the country. And in South Bend, $40K isn't a bad start and beats the hell out of working at a RV manufacturer...low cost of living and actually a lot of things to do here or within easy reach.
Alright, so graduation is approaching and I'm really getting into a job search here.
What stands out to employers about 1 graduate vs another. We all went to the same school and typically have a little bit of prior experience that may put you an inch ahead...
What stands out to employers about 1 graduate vs another. We all went to the same school and typically have a little bit of prior experience that may put you an inch ahead...
PrkChpXprss
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I hire .Net developers. I don't expect to pay more than 40K to 50K for an entry level developer. That being said, if you're good and get certifications, you could expect 5K to 10K per year salary increase, if you've proven more than just a code monkey. Don't just work hard -- strive for innovation.
At my current job, we don't hire for entry level positions. At my previous job, we did; we'd look for internships and relevant experience earned at those jobs.
Mike, have you ever personally hired any entry level developers?
What really makes one stand out over the other? Yea, my internships look good versus Phil's restaurant waiter job, but Phil could blow them away.
I just want to make sure I have all of my basis covered when it comes to the point to sell myself.
What really makes one stand out over the other? Yea, my internships look good versus Phil's restaurant waiter job, but Phil could blow them away.
I just want to make sure I have all of my basis covered when it comes to the point to sell myself.
Yes.
It depends on what part of the process you're thinking about. If you want your resume to make process through the screeners, then you probably want to get great internships on there, and enumerate the relevant experience you've gotten -- specifically what you did.
If you get an interview and want to impress the interviewer, ask intelligent questions about the company, don't bloat your experience, and nail the questions you're asked in the interview process.
5 to 10k increases?! wtf kind of raises are you giving?? 20%!!
I want to be hired by you.
william_fontaine
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Moving between companies helps with this. For my first job out of college, I started mid-50's at a company and it probably would have taken a few years to get to mid-60's. But I looked around (since the company was lousy) and found a mid-60's job less than a year after I started at the first place. 20% raise was pretty nice.
He said such increases were paid on merit, not to just anyone who works there. If you're worth the increase, then it should be easy for you to make the case of your value and your employer should want to keep you.
Another way that interns and entry-level applicants to make an impression is to check their sense of entitlement at the door.
Yet another way -- and I think this extends to all your work, throughout your career regardless of profession -- is to put thought into your work. Why are you doing something? To what end?
I suppose there's always work that's just doodling or exploring. But if you have some purpose behind it -- that you're solving a problem, that you're pushing the envelope towards some solution, then you're doing something meaningful. Identifying ideas that are meaningful and teasing them away from those that aren't is governed by the ability to think critically, and that's a very valuable and rare talent, indeed.
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I understand moving company to company.... I just did that - 30% more but internally....
Most companies have your raise figured out well before and they are rarely over 5%. if you get 5% you are luckly.
Even based on how good of a job you do, you normally don't get extreme amounts. Maybe you will with a title change.
The entitlement is what is hard to new comers to deal with, specially now, people just expect stuff because they are alive and it just doesn't work that way in the real world.
Most companies have your raise figured out well before and they are rarely over 5%. if you get 5% you are luckly.
Even based on how good of a job you do, you normally don't get extreme amounts. Maybe you will with a title change.
The entitlement is what is hard to new comers to deal with, specially now, people just expect stuff because they are alive and it just doesn't work that way in the real world.
That's the point. People don't normally get extreme amounts because they're not exemplary employees, or very talented. Someone asked what sets their resume ahead, here; they're asking what makes them an exemplary candidate, and I would have hoped that would mean they'd also want to be an exemplary employee and work on their craft. Once they attain that level, then they'll get exemplary benefits and command a great salary.
The bad news is that growth doesn't happen overnight. The great news is that it does happen incrementally. If you're the best low-level guy, there's no reason that you shouldn't demand a great salary -- for the entry-level bracket. Then, set your sites on being the best guy in the two- to five-year category. And so on ...
The bad news is that growth doesn't happen overnight. The great news is that it does happen incrementally. If you're the best low-level guy, there's no reason that you shouldn't demand a great salary -- for the entry-level bracket. Then, set your sites on being the best guy in the two- to five-year category. And so on ...
Absolutely. I want to be that exemplary candidate, not to just land the position, but to be that exemplary employee, too. And I KNOW I can be that employee, it's a matter of being given that opportunity.
Anyway, I submitted a coverletter and resume to the hiring manager of a company last night. I got an out of office reply that he is gone until the 6th. I figure I should give him until the 13th before I follow up? Usually I follow up about 4-5 business days later, but seeing as he was on vacation all week, I'm not sure what I should do. I want to stand out against whatever other candidates are in his inbox waiting.
william_fontaine
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