Need Some IT Job Advice (Long Post)

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skybone404

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I'm a new poster, but a long-time lurker. I need some advice from people that have been in the business for a while. Sorry in advance for the long post.

I'm an Assistant Network Admin at my job. Our IT Department is just me and my boss for about 70 users at 5 locations. He handles the management, planning and WAN support with some user support while I handle most of the PC and Network support on the user level and helping him on the higher level stuff. Ive worked there since August of 2003 starting part time then going full time in December 2003. I also mainly handle the processing for our main Core Processing software which runs on a big-ass IBM pSeries. I run the daily batch jobs, the backups and most troubleshooting in the software.

I was told by my boss that they might be looking to separate our department into Networking and Data Processing with me heading the DP Department while my boss handles the network. Both departments will be hiring people and I will be in a supervisory position, with the off possibility of him being promoted in a year or 2 and me taking his Network Manager position, but that's only my boss's guess, so there's no guarantee on that. He told me that his boss will probably be talking to me about this Monday before she makes an official proposal to the bosses.

I have some concerns about this:

1) I have NO management/supervisory experience whatsoevert. I'm a tech. This is my first real IT job out of college. I'm more of a grunt and a grunt mentality with "This shit needs to get done," crawling under a desk and getting it done if it's something I know This is a bit overwhelming for me with having to worry about people under me that answer to me, having to hire them and do reviews and timecards and management meetings and all that shite.

2) I will most likely lose my network admin privileges when this happens. I want to stay in networking. It's what I like to do, and there's a hell of a lot I still need to learn. I'm concerned that taking this position will get me out of networking, or at least make it more difficult with the time out of the networking side. Right now, this is the least of my concerns, since it's not bad for someone to be well-rounded.

3) Most importantly, I'm working on moving out of Chicago for a while. I've been here 25 years and I need a change of scenery for a little while, find work elsewhere, try to get more established in the industry, and move back in a few years. I'm interviewing for a job in Madison and if that doesn't go through, possibly moving to Phoenix with my roommate in May, but that's not decided yet. I'm looking for jobs out that way. I don't want to take this management position and leave in a month, if this job goes through, or 3 or 4 months if I move to Arizona. I don't want to make my bosses look bad to their bosses, and I also don't want it to look like "hey this guy got a management position, couldn't handle it, and up and left after 4 months."

I just want some insight on how to handle this and if some of my concerns are valid. I know I have to decide this myself, I'm just looking for further data to factor in on how to approach this, and what to tell them.

Thanks for the help

.
 
1) Data processing is good experience to have. Why? Because it's boring. Stay with me on this one: Nobody wants to learn it, so if you pick it up, you will have experience that not many other people will have.

2) Management looks good on a resume, and it's good experience for you period. Unless you had a very convincing reason not to stick around, I'd do so for this job.

3) Stick with the data center job, but make it clear to your supervisor that you'd like to handle the networking side of things when the opportunity comes up.

4) Again, I understand the need to get out and explore, but right now this is an awsome opportunity for you, and I'd really work to make the most of it.
 
I agree with XOR. Don't pull this "tunnel vision" nonsense. In IT you cannot allow for it. Explore every area possible. All it will give you in the future is opportunities.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I've been doing a lot of thinking about it and you guys are right. It's not so much "Tunnel vision," but I had been wanting to get more technical experience before I got into management, but I've always been kind of near-sighted in things. I think this could be a good opportunity and I'd have help getting it going. I still have some of the concerns though about being ready and what not, and I'm not sure if I even should bring them up and run the risk of losing this opportunity. I will see what happens come Monday.
 
Some experienced advice: Don't say shit. You can handle just about anything they can throw at you, and your manager obviously thinks you can do it, otherwise he wouldn't have told you about it ( or indeed, have recommended you to his boss, which he likely did if he told you about it ).

That's pretty much a good thing to learn: You can handle anything anybody can throw at you, so stop thinking you aren't ready for it.
 
XOR != OR said:
That's pretty much a good thing to learn: You can handle anything anybody can throw at you, so stop thinking you aren't ready for it.
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bingo that is one key. If you can't, someone you know can, Knowing people if pretty much everything

example,

joe may not know how to do a exchange migration. But his contact bob does, bob helps talk you though it, you help bob, works great

of course i'm not positive thats what you were impying
 
I know where you are coming from on this one.

I just turned 26, and I am the lead IT guy at the company I work for. I started working part time for them in March of 2001. I was an intern while finishing up my senior year of my MIS degree. I was the IT dept as an intern. They offered me a full time job in Oct. of 2001.

A few months after starting full time, they moved the son in law to be the head of the IT dept. I work for a family run business, and he knew very little about computers. He basically shuffled paperwork around his desk, while I did all the work. Anyway, I kept my head up and worked my ass off.

A new management job within the company opened up and my boss took that job. I was offered the lead IT job and I took it. I have just hired a guy to take over my old responsibilities. I also have hired an intern for a remote location who I oversee. Getting management experience IMHO is worth more than getting technical experience. I can sit down and learn how to fix a problem or install a piece of software. But learning how to prioritize projects, manage people, deal with other managers is something you can't do on your own. If you are giving the opportunity to lead, it means they think highly of you.

Just give you a bit more info about where I work, we have 110 employees over 6 locations in 4 states.

Ok, enough of my long post. Best of luck to you!
 
k1pp3r said:
of course i'm not positive thats what you were impying
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More or less. My point is more general: You can do anything you need to do. If that involves getting outside help, that's what it involves, but YOU can do it.
 
XOR != OR said:
More or less. My point is more general: You can do anything you need to do. If that involves getting outside help, that's what it involves, but YOU can do it.
Click to expand...

Thats the problem im facing. What if its something I just dont' know much about, like Cisco routers or high end server building, im still really rusty in these areas and I haven't had much of a chance at my current job to try them as im too busy doing my other duties. I feel like im a state of idle. :confused:
 
I don't really look at things, as black and white...either knowing something or not knowing something. I think you have gotten to where you are because of your ability to learn and overcome obstacles that have been put infront of you. Though you can argue whether or not being able to learn is more important the knowledge itself.
 
IceWind said:
Thats the problem im facing. What if its something I just dont' know much about, like Cisco routers or high end server building, im still really rusty in these areas and I haven't had much of a chance at my current job to try them as im too busy doing my other duties. I feel like im a state of idle. :confused:
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Real world analogy I think is in order.

When I got my current job, I knew next to nothing about how windows AD works and the like. I was a straight linux admin, hadn't worked with windows before. I knew that was part of the job, and I took it anyway ( along with a few cisco stuff, which I didn't know either ). The job also required working knowledge of MSSQL, which I didn't have at the time either. I still took the job. 1 month later, I had working knowledge of these things that I knew nothing about previously. 2 months later, I could walk in and pass any exam you put in front of me regarding these things.

Now we're investigating VoIP ( can you say Asterisk and voicepulse.com? ). Again, a month ago I didn't know jack about this stuff. Now I feel comfortable enough with it to implement it in a test site, possibly for wider deployment in a few months.

The key I'm trying to get across here is this: In the IT field, it's not about what you know, but how fast you can learn it. Confidence is the key, you have to have an unshakable belief that there is no technology out there that you can't digest. And the truth of the matter is, there isn't. There is no technology that you will come across that is so foriegn and alien that you can't handle it. It may be a bit rough every now and then, but that's half the fun ;).

Honestly, the aspect of the job I'd be more concerned over is managing people. It's not like technology, where you put in x and you get y every time. People are, eh hem, FUCKING GOOFY. Dealing with the egos alone is enough to make my head ache. I have been fortunate in that every time I've managed people I've been able to hire my own team, I can't imagine having to manage someone else's hiring mistakes.
 
I was in the same position as you. and here's what i did.


I was offered a Network Manager position at a Finical Investment Management company, They handle ~2 billion dollars.

OK so now you know my job. Here's my background.

Little bit of college for comp sci, a switch to a networking tech school. and after graduation. a Carpentar. Offered this job, ANd your goddamn right i'm gonna take it.

Overwelhming yes! Unlearnable no! On top of supporting all 28 people, and 24 hour uptime. I learned by trial and error how to talk on the phone to business people, handle meetings, Dress correctly for meetings, lay the pressure on when needed. It isn't easy, i'll admit but once you get over the hump, it becomes natural

so here's my advice.

Act like you know how to do it. But keep a low profile in the beginning don't make waves and stay under the radar for the first month or so. Suck in everything you can before you switch, watch your bosses and ASK QUESTIONS!!!!!! Asking questions is key. Cause it shows them you want to learn and want to be prepared and it really helps you. you may not remember everything they say right away, but when you need that information it will hit you. Don't sweat it, do your homework, relax at work and you'll do fine.
 
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I guess the biggest problem im facing is fear. Im afraid to touch higher end server, networking and what not on the account i'll screw something up, not type in something correctly, forget a setting and end up bringing the entire network down, ruin a business and get fired for my lack of knowledge. Having that thought constantly run through my head makes me afraid to even power down a server :(

Last time I tried to go into a domain server setup to figure out a clients email password I about passed out I was so scared of screwing something up.
 
Danger Will Robinson. If you don't take it someone else will be hired, and they might be an indescribeable jackass. You don't want to take the chance that a moron will get into management and make life hell for you. Step up and take it, get the resume bullet point, and as stated above, focus on aptitude. I've hired for aptitude, not for knowledge. Every time.
 
Wow, lots of good insight. Thanks guys! I still haven't been offered it yet, I'll let you guys know what happens.
 
First of all, - Damn, there are a lot of us in the financial industry in here. We should almost start a subgroup or something.

Now, where I was/am. I started here less than 2 years ago as the network admin for a 40 workstation 3 server, 4 location network. I had several years of "grunt work" as you put it but never been the big cheese and had the same fears you had. The biggest thing that helped me get over the fear was that if I was working on something, it was because it was broken. If it was broken things could only get better if I was able to fix it so why not at least give it a shot. :p

A month ago, my boss retired and I moved up and am now in charge of the network, and managing the processing staff. I've also initated a project that will change the IT departments for 6 other offices owned by the parent company. I will be in charge of them all. :eek:

Just be honest with everyone and tell them upfront that you are looking forward to the challenge, but since you will be learning as you go things might not be smooth sailing all the time. Your bosses will understand since they know you and your background. Just do your best. And when you aren't sure, ask around here.

Feel free to PM me anytime since it sounds like our situations are pretty simlar.
 
Party2go9820 said:
First of all, - Damn, there are a lot of us in the financial industry in here. We should almost start a subgroup or something.

Now, where I was/am. I started here less than 2 years ago as the network admin for a 40 workstation 3 server, 4 location network. I had several years of "grunt work" as you put it but never been the big cheese and had the same fears you had. The biggest thing that helped me get over the fear was that if I was working on something, it was because it was broken. If it was broken things could only get better if I was able to fix it so why not at least give it a shot. :p

A month ago, my boss retired and I moved up and am now in charge of the network, and managing the processing staff. I've also initated a project that will change the IT departments for 6 other offices owned by the parent company. I will be in charge of them all. :eek:

Just be honest with everyone and tell them upfront that you are looking forward to the challenge, but since you will be learning as you go things might not be smooth sailing all the time. Your bosses will understand since they know you and your background. Just do your best. And when you aren't sure, ask around here.

Feel free to PM me anytime since it sounds like our situations are pretty simlar.
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You meaning me or Skybone?
 
i agree with everyone here but have a different experience, but gives more evidence i guess

I left UK college and ended up working part time in retail... and in the 2 years i was there got up to assistant manager of a £1.3mil store. Learnt from trial and error how to manage people, situations and just to cope, if things screw up, hold your hands up for a second then just get on and make them right again.

i then recently tried to break back into networking, finding that there were no jobs, and me with no specific certificates... went for a job, co-managing 500 workstations, 15 servers on 10 sites...

The reason i got it, was the managment experience. (they actually admited that) I couldn't prove up to date knowledge or anything, but that random management experience is something that stands out on a cv.
If you are offered it... go for it.
 
so far i think many have offered to around, or what advice i would/could give. however, when it comes to management, i have this to say:

it is good to feel overwhelmed, for a person who is conscience of himself and others can go further than one that only thinks of himself (altruistic). it is usually in this thinking, that the person that thought he could not do something becomes fulfilled when he finds out that he can and made the achievement for it. if failure comes, the one that was cautious with his conscience, will still try to achieve the goal, but with experience of what not to do.

“A leader is most effective when people barely know he exists. When his work is done, his aim fulfilled, his troops will feel they did it themselves.”
~ Lao-tzu


“He who cherishes a beautiful vision, a lofty ideal in his heart, will one day realize it.”
~ James Allen

i hope this helps some.........
 
So that begs the question then. When I see posted jobs of Sys Admins and what not wanting MSCE, CISCO Routing, NetWare, ect..ect.... Do I even wanna try to apply for them and state explicetly during the interview I may not meet those qualifications completely but Im willing to learn and strive to know more about those areas, or is that per basis/ luck kind of thing?
 
Lots of good points here...

Chicago! Yea I want to leave too but I know that if I stay here a bit longer and get more experience (and money stashed) it will make the move to a different place that much easier. If you don't take this management position guess what? Someone who doesn't know anything about data processing and networking or even basic computer trouble shooting will take that management position and you'll spend most of your time explaining and convincing him about things you think are important. Basically you take the management position and do the stuff you like to do and let the other guys do the basic stuff that just takes up your time.
 
OK, so far nothing's happened yet. I found out it was sort of mentioned at the board meeting, but nothing's been done. It may be talked about again in a month at our next board meeting. This is the second time they've done that. First time was when they wanted to get me above part-time pay after working there for a year, 9 months of it working full-time.

However, I just got offered the job in Madison, offering me relocation fees and almost twice what I'm making right now. I'm going up there this weekend with a couple buddies to look over the city to help me decide and I'll let them know Monday. I have a lot of things I need to think about before I can take it, some work-related, some life-related.

Thanks for all the insight guys.
 
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