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Need some advice

G

getyasome

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
105
Ok here is what I have going on.

Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor
12 Gigs G.SKILL DDR3 1600 Triple Channel Memory
Feser X-Changer Dual 240mm Extreme Performance Radiator
HEATKILLER® CPU Rev3.0 1366 Waterblock
2 Thermaltake A2018 120mm Blue LED Case Fans (For the Radiator) I had them laying around the house.
XSPC Dual Bay Reservoir Pump 750 lph
Feser Tube - FT - Active UV Hose - ID 1/2"
Shin-Etsu G751 Thermal Grease

Now my first question is this may sound a bit stupid but I'm a nobb when It comes to water cooling my very first set up here. I have the inlet from the res / pump running to the bottom fitting on the Heatkiller , outlet from res / pump to the rad then rad to the top fitting on the Heatkiller. Is that the correct way the loop should be?

The XSPC Dual Bay Reservoir Pump is in the bottom bay of my case , should I move it up higher?

I just added the XSPC Dual Bay Reservoir Pump and the 1/2 ID hose and fittings, before I was running the Thermaltake BigWater 760is 2U Drive Bay Water Cooling System with everything above with 3/8 ID hose and fittings my temps were 29-34 deg c Idle and on 100% load 70 deg c was the higest on all of the 4 cores.. now my temps are 33-39 Idle and Highest core reached 75 deg c on 100% load. Is that b/c I'm not using the extra rad that was on the Thermaltake BigWater (A piece of junk I know made a mistake getting that) But I learned from that mistake now I have a $165 boat anchor.

Here is my latest Overclock ,


CPU Ratio Setting - 20.0:
BCLK Frequency - 200(MHz)
Intel Speed Step - Disabled:
DRAM Frequency - 1604: CAS Tim 8-8-8 21

CPU Voltage - 1.35V:
CPU PLL Voltage - 1.88V:
QPI/DRAM Voltage - 1.35V:
DRAM Bus Voltage - 1.66V:
CPU Differential Amplitude 800mV:

Tested with Prime 95 and Intel's BurnTest V2

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/197742009-07-0114-47-25.439.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/58892009-07-0114-48-37.140.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/53689pm95temp.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/17140cpupm95sensor.jpg

Thanks for any help ya all give.
 
its weird that youd get worse temps from that nice stuff than from a tt bigwater. do you have a thermometer? if so, can you stick it in the reservoir and measure the water temp? this may help diagnose whether its a problem with the radiator/fans, or if its a problem with thermal paste/the cpu block. one thing you can do is take off the cpu block and reapply the TIM, but first look at the old pattern left by the TIM and make sure it is a solid, thin layer that covers the entire top of the cpu.
 
First Thanks mate for the reply much appreciated on my end here.


I have no have a thermometer at the moment. But I do have a meat thermometer for checking temps as I'm a Sautee Chef by trade. That might work, lol.

Ok I tried the above with a very High Quality Meat Thermometer and It's reading at 81 deg F. Just a bit warmer than the room temp is at 78 deg F.

I tried that all ready with the Thermal Compound. Looked great , so I cleaned the CPU then applied 2 drops about the size of a grain of rice and spread a thin even layer across the CPU. After letting it soak in hot water for 5 min first , It's just a bit easier to work with The stuff is thick as thieves. I had the Feser Rad attached to my desk outside the case now I mounted It on the back of the case where the 2 , 3 speed out take exhaust fans are and Installed 2 2000 rpm fans on the rad to get the push pull effect and temps went down a few deg c but they are still 34-41 deg c Idle .I have a large 200 mm fan at the top of the case running on high 800 rpm to remove heat from inside the case. With the 3/8 ID tube they were 29-34 Idle, this here has got me stumped.

I also changed the loop, now I have the outlet from res/pump running to the rad, rad to the bottom of the Heatkiller, top of Heatkiller to inlet of res/pump. That did not do much but I think that's the correct way to set up the loop????

I've ordered a Danger Den Black Ice GT Stealth 240 Radiator - Blue , and 2 Koolance G1/4" Threaded 1/2" ID | 3/4" OD Compression Fittings for the Heatkiller. I've tried a few Compression fittings for the Heatkiller and high flow barbs and the Compression fittings I've tried are all to large in width to get both to fit. The barbs I've tried It's hard to get the clamps to fit b/c the thickness of the feser tube.. The Rad and fittings will arrive tomm/ so will see if the fittings will fit. The ones on the Heatkiller now came with the res/pump and are a bit longer than anything I had so I was able just and I mean just to get them clamped. I do not think they are of great Quality. Have any Ideas on a Compression fitting that would fit or a barb fitting to be able to clamp the 1/2 ID feser tube and fit on the Heatkiller???

Adding another rad of that size might be a bit of a over kill just to cool the CPU , but I want to do a double SLI with XFX GeForce 9800 GTX+ Black Edition 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Video Card. I have one installed now so when I get another I will cool them also. So will need another rad for that.

I'm using Herbie Clip® Nylon Hose Clamp Size H - Black

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/heclnyhoclsi.html


As far as a Two-pass vs a Single-pass Radiator did I make the right choice there??

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30...oling-Radiators_Shrouds-120mm_Dual-Page1.html


Thanks again for the reply mate.
 
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i really dont know what to say about this one man. maybe can you post some pictures? are you sure you got ALL the air bubbles out? i cant think of any reason why this setup shouldnt be better than the bigwater. you have the same radiator area right?

as for the block, i dont see any labels on the heatkiller so it might be bidirectional. i know that judging by the grooves on the inside i would rather put the inlet into the hole in the middle, but either way should work about the same. the TIM sounds ok, thats a good method for application. ive heard that shin-etsu stuff is pretty hard too. i just stick with AS5 myself. :) youre sucking outside air through the rad right? make sure it isnt blowing warm case air through it. and as for the barbs, the most comon way to solve that problem is to get these fittings. they work great.
 
Yes mate I have the same radiator , as for the air bubbles I removed all that I seen but they keep forming on the top part of the tube that goes from the top of the Heatkiller to the inlet of the res/pump. About right in the middle of the tube and a few at the front of the fitting on the Heatkiller..I get them out and awhile latter they form back again. Granted they are just at the top of the tube and very small. I think that is caused by the not so good Quality fittings that I have on the Heatkiller. Had the same issue with 3/8 ID tube and fittings. I changed the fittings on the old cpu block (that's when I was using the TT Bigwater set up) and that issue went away.

The Rad is getting the 2 exhaust fans on the back from inside the case, with 2 , 2000 rpm fans on the outside of the rad. Push / Pull effect. I have the large 200 mm big boy at the very top on max to remove the inside air. Also changed the fan on the side panel to a exhaust. That makes 9 fans total + the 130 mm fan on the power supply = 10. I was getting the same Temps with the Rad mounted on my desk with 2 fans blowing air into the Rad.

The fittings I'm using now:

The res / pump:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/big1sishfifo.html

The Rad:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bi1cofifor3o.html

The Heatkiller:
Using the fittings that came with the res/pump as stated above. But these are arriving today FedEx along with the extra Rad. Will see If they will fit on the Heatkiller.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8...sion_Fitting_NZL-V13-19KG.html?tl=g30c101s178

Images: (I can not find my Digital Camera at the moment, Webcam shots for now) Sorry

79172cpuz.jpg


838102009-07-0906-55-24.788.jpg


221532009-07-0906-56-58.781.jpg


700612009-07-0906-59-06.710.jpg


50272009-07-0907-02-31.108.jpg


572902009-07-0907-03-30.943.jpg



Thanks Again for your time mate, I do appreciate all your help.
 
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try getting rid of those air bubbles in your loop. make sure the outlet from the res is near the bottom of the res. also you should tryy reversing the direction of the fans on the rad so that they blow air into the case. this will mean you have cool outside air going through your rads instead of hotter exhaust air from inside.
 
ekuest said:
try getting rid of those air bubbles in your loop. make sure the outlet from the res is near the bottom of the res. also you should tryy reversing the direction of the fans on the rad so that they blow air into the case. this will mean you have cool outside air going through your rads instead of hotter exhaust air from inside.
Click to expand...


I dont quite understand what you mean by make sure the outlet from the res is near the bottom of the res????

If you mean the bottom of my case, It is with only one open drive bay below it.

I added the new Danger Den Black Ice GT Stealth 240 Radiator also, I mounted it on my desk outside the case.. I also moved the feser rad to the inside of my case and switched the 2 intake case fans to outake where the Rad is, so the 2 on the rad blow air through and the case fans suck it out. No matter what I do I keep getting air bubbles forming in that same spot. I take the cap off the fill port on the res/pump to bleed the air bubbles , remove all the bubbles from the tubes and there is not that many off them except that one spot as shown in the image below.

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/220432009-07-1006-21-39.640.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/453282009-07-1006-22-00.453.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/603312009-07-1006-22-43.859.jpg


I also switched the 2 back exhaust fans to intake.. My temps have come down with adding the new rad. 29-35 deg c Idle and on 100% load only one of the four cores hit 70 deg c. I might be able to live with that. Now why those air bubbles keep forming only in that one spot has got my britches in a bunch..Do I need to make the tube a bit longer in that section to try and get the small bend out , to give it a more of a straight shot???

I might just go back to 3/8 ID tube and fittings, I hate to do so but I was getting lower temps just a bit with that size and no air bubbles forming anywhere.

Thanks again mate you have been most helpful with my issues, very much appreciated. :)
 
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what i mean by the outlet near the bottom of the res is that the water coming out of the res should come out of the lowest point possible in the res. put the inlet near the top and the outlet near the bottom and you will make it very hard for any air bubbles to get into your loop from the res. if you are sure you arent getting air in the loop from the res, then it has to be leaking in from a barb or else allready caught in your loop (like in a radiator or something.) you should tighten all your clamps as much as you can to make sure, and then turn the loop around a bit to try to get any stuck air bubbles out. you can do that with the paper clip trick. also, you can flip the outside radiator upside down and then cut out a lot of extra tubing that can create restriction. you should not need this many radiators for a cpu-only loop. i think the problem lies in the bubbles. its an indicator that something is not sealed in your loop, and as such your flow might not be as good as it could be.
 
So the fittings on the Rads will work better If I put them on the bottom?? Flip them upside down as you were saying..

Well the way the res/pump is configured is the inlet is at the very bottom an the outlet is in the middle.. I think I found the issue, I had air in one of the rads. I keep seeing bubbles from the outlet of the Rad , so I thumped the top of it till I seen no more bubbles coming out. All Is well now. No bubbles forming anywhere and Idle temps 29-34 c , 100% load 64-70 c and I think I can live with that.. 4.00 GHz Overclock. Those temps are not great but for sure they are not bad for that Overclock.

I want to cool the Graphics Cards also , Getting another card soon. So I will need the extra Rad.. Thermaltake sent me a new P500 Pump as my dumb azz put new high flow 3/8 ID fittings on the Bigwater set up I had and cracked the plastic above the housing on the outlet by over tightening the fitting. So my last Question I promise mate, I hate to keep bugging you with these issues.. Now that I have the p500 pump just laying around , when I go to cool the double SLI set up should I add that pump to the loop and what would be the best way to set it up??


Thanks again for your time and wisdom mate , Very much Appreciated on my end for sure.:)
 
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gimme some better pics. it might be best to go with a second loop, since the i7 can take up to like 80 or 90 celsius, but the graphics card probably shouldnt go over about 60C or so, so theres such a big difference that 2 loops might be best. i dont know anything about that pump. try a new thread, might get some other input. :)
 
 
I'm no w/cing gig expert, but I would in my case put that radiator on top of the computer itself, rather then leave it hanging on the back like that. You never know, some of the smallest things could do a big difference.
 
you should get one of these btw for that outside radiator. shortening that tubing will ease some strain on your pump, but more importantly, it looks cleaner. :) on top or to the side doesnt really matter as long as it has outside air blowing through it. and you can mount it with the barbs on top or bottom, and it wont make a difference. so id go with barbs on the bottom for your setup. im not sure about your case, but you may no even need a radbox. you may just be able to mount the outside radiator right on those 2 fans in back just make sure you make those fans intake air into the case.

as for your gpu, it looks like the max temps are around 100C. i dont think ive seen anyone take one that high, but i think i would suggest just putting everything in one loop for simplicity. you shouldnt need the pump. newer pumps can do a couple rads and a couple blocks just fine. placement of your components in the case and order in the loop shouldnt really matter, but the length of tubing you use should be as minimal as possible.

do you remember when you took your temps with the bigwater system? you may have had cooler ambient temps then and that can easily make 5C difference or more in your temps. glad i can help, just keep asking if you have more questions.
 
My GPU only gets to 37-40 deg c , It's 38 c at the moment.. Thanks for the Info on the Rad set up , Yes I agree It will look much better with the Swiftech RadBox.. As you can see with all the red and blue LED lights I have , I like everything to look top notch. Great thought there mate. I will try mounting the Rad on the back of the case with barbs down and the 2 fans on the outside of the Rad blowing air through and the case fans are set to intake now as I switched them yesterday. And see how it looks. I will leave about a 1 1/2 in between the Rad and the back Intake case fans so as to not blow the hot air from the rad into my case. The back of the case sits right over the AC duct so the cold air is blowing straight up on the set up.

I keep my AC at 72 deg F so the ambient temps with the Bigwater are the same as they are now.

Thanks for all your advice mate , everything you have suggested has been right on the money..:)
 
That is as short as I can get my tubing.. Even if I mount the second rad at the top inside my case I will only cut 12-14 inches out of the loop. For 1 more foot of tubing I have it outside the case sucking Air from the AC duct 3 feet below.

The pump specs: XSPC Dual Bay Reservoir Pump

- Pump-performance: 750 lph
- Delivery head: 1.8m
- Voltage: 12V (4pin)
- Individually pressure tested

Now I have Thermaltakes P500 top pump also.. Specs:

Rated Voltage DC 12V
Input Current 600 mA
Bearing Ceramic Bearing
Flow Rate 500L/h
Connector 4-pin
Noise 16 dBA
MTBF 80000 Hours

And looks to me the XSPC out does the P500.. I have seen the Air bubbles flying through the tubes and the reviews I've read were great for a single or multi block set up. My temps are 29-34 c Idle and with Hyper Threading turned off with a 4.00 GHz 200 BCLK . One core hit 60 c on 100% load, so I think the flow rate is doing just fine mate.

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/87860a1.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/94332a4.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/5891a2.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/32474a3.jpg

I'm very happy with these numbers and everything in my set up. I've heard alot of mixed results but I dont think the XSPC Dual Bay Reservoir Pump is all that bad.

http://www.clunk.org.uk/martins-liquid-lab-articles/xspc-dual-bay-reservoir-pump-review.html


And I got it at Sidewinder for $44.95.. Compared to 79.95 at alot of others.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsxsdubayrep.html

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367&products_id=23046
 
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Why do you think so many people use the MCP655 or better yet the MCP355 w/ top. The head pressure is significantly better.

Tubing size doesn't matter at all. Also, what type of fans do you have on the stealth rad? They usually requre 120x38 fans with high static pressure and 1600+ rpms for optimal cooling.
 
lollerskater69 said:
Why do you think so many people use the MCP655 or better yet the MCP355 w/ top. The head pressure is significantly better.

Tubing size doesn't matter at all. Also, what type of fans do you have on the stealth rad? They usually requre 120x38 fans with high static pressure and 1600+ rpms for optimal cooling.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on the pumps , Down the road I will switch over.. That Laing D5 Vario/Swiftech MCP655 is a monster. Very nice..

The fans are set to med 1900-2100 Rpm and are these loud monsters on high. Sounds like a jet on max. But I had them laying around and I like the manual speed controls.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999122

I'm going to get 2 of these I think.I have 2 now and they work great with little noise on high.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835209013
 
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The MCP355 is actually better than the MCP655. All you need is an aftermarket top and that thing can rock.

I would also suggest selling the two rads you have and pick up a MCR320 or a BIP III for simplicity. Or if you have a little more cash flow, you can get a Thermochill PA120.3 or XSPC RX360 with some quiet fans.

Is it also possible for you to flip the rad around so you can reduce the length of tubing? If you want to go clampless, you can get some 3/8 tubing over your 1/2 barbs. All you have to do is sip the tubing in hot water and slide it over. You have to cut the tubing to get it off. Perfect seal.
 
lollerskater69 said:
The MCP355 is actually better than the MCP655. All you need is an aftermarket top and that thing can rock.

I would also suggest selling the two rads you have and pick up a MCR320 or a BIP III for simplicity. Or if you have a little more cash flow, you can get a Thermochill PA120.3 or XSPC RX360 with some quiet fans.

Is it also possible for you to flip the rad around so you can reduce the length of tubing? If you want to go clampless, you can get some 3/8 tubing over your 1/2 barbs. All you have to do is sip the tubing in hot water and slide it over. You have to cut the tubing to get it off. Perfect seal.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advise mate but I'm lost when you said an aftermarket top , Can you post up some links to that info so as I can understand what you mean. Now I feel like a complete fool but I just do not have a clue.:rolleyes:

I have tried to flip the outside Rad to have the fittings on the bottom and I was having issues with the bends in the tube. Way to hard no matter how I tried it , example is worse than a 90 deg bend in the tube. I want the back of the case over the AC duct b/c my 2 back fan on the case are set as intake. So I dont have alot of room to put that large monster case. I put Koolance G1/4" Threaded 1/2" ID | 3/4" OD Compression Fittings on the outside Rad. I got them for the Heatkiller but they will not fit , width is to big to get them both to fit. Here is a couple of images.

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/934172009-07-1214-57-16.883.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/908622009-07-1214-58-08.503.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/833802009-07-1214-58-20.358.jpg

Now You just made me think of this , If I mount the Rad on the back part of my desk closer to the wall Its a straight shot for the tubes, no bends at all.. That would cut 18 inches or less out of the loop , would that make much of a difference? And if I can find a way to flip the feser Rad inside my case to have the fittings on the bottom that would cut another 16-18 inches. Trying to mount it that way well , I have it zip tied with heavy plastic ties to the inside of the bay to the back of the Rad.. That's the only way I could do it , It's solid as a rock there..See I always thought you keep the fittings on the top but thanks to ekuest I have learned it doesn't make a difference.


Ok I did the above and cut 29 inches of tube out of the loop, my Idle Temps dropped to 27-33 c ..

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/384192009-07-1218-24-12.895.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/986972009-07-1218-25-10.548.jpg
 
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yeah really there isnt a lot of mystery to water cooling. some things are genuinely hard to figure out on your own, and i dont know everything myself. however, it follows all the same laws of physics the rest of the world does. in your rad, the water goes in the top and out the top, so it must travel the same amount of up and the same amount down either way its oriented. if you were mounting it on its side, then you can put the inlet on top and the outlet on the bottom and let gravity do some of the work for you. or, some rads even have the 2 barbs on opposite corners so you can use gravity to help you either way you orient the rad. you can sort out a lot of this stuff just by carefully considering whats going on for a few seconds. glad you got those temps down a bit. :)
 
getyasome said:
Thanks for the advise mate but I'm lost when you said an aftermarket top , Can you post up some links to that info so as I can understand what you mean. Now I feel like a complete fool but I just do not have a clue.:rolleyes:

I have tried to flip the outside Rad to have the fittings on the bottom and I was having issues with the bends in the tube. Way to hard no matter how I tried it , example is worse than a 90 deg bend in the tube. I want the back of the case over the AC duct b/c my 2 back fan on the case are set as intake. So I dont have alot of room to put that large monster case. I put Koolance G1/4" Threaded 1/2" ID | 3/4" OD Compression Fittings on the outside Rad. I got them for the Heatkiller but they will not fit , width is to big to get them both to fit. Here is a couple of images.

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/934172009-07-1214-57-16.883.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/908622009-07-1214-58-08.503.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/833802009-07-1214-58-20.358.jpg

Now You just made me think of this , If I mount the Rad on the back part of my desk closer to the wall Its a straight shot for the tubes, no bends at all.. That would cut 18 inches or less out of the loop , would that make much of a difference? And if I can find a way to flip the feser Rad inside my case to have the fittings on the bottom that would cut another 16-18 inches. Trying to mount it that way well , I have it zip tied with heavy plastic ties to the inside of the bay to the back of the Rad.. That's the only way I could do it , It's solid as a rock there..See I always thought you keep the fittings on the top but thanks to ekuest I have learned it doesn't make a difference.


Ok I did the above and cut 29 inches of tube out of the loop, my Idle Temps dropped to 27-33 c ..

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/384192009-07-1218-24-12.895.jpg

http://www.imageput.com/hosted/986972009-07-1218-25-10.548.jpg
Click to expand...

Glad I was able to help man. Get a nicer pump and your temps should decrease even more. That was just a lot of tubing for that pump.

If your interested I have one for sale. But
 
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