Need some advice please....

[Ingonuts13]

I am looking to W/C my entire set-up to get the temps down and get a little more performance out of my system. I am not opposed to Retail solutions (i.e. Koolance) but I doubt the performance would be as good as a DIY job. My main concern is cleanliness, my case right now is very clean and I really wish to keep it that way. Also, this will be my first W/C solution so be gentle. I know to leak test and all that stuff and yes, I have done a
lot of homework on it.

My Specs:

P4 3.0C
DFI875B
BFG6800Ultra
Lian-Li pc75

Here is some parts I've been looking at:

CPU: Considering the Swiftech 6002. Seems to be the way to go here.

CHIPSET: Do I really need this? My DFI has passive cooling on it so I am guessing it would be a good idea to use w/c on it. Also, what Chipset W/C solution would fit my boards chipset?


GPU:6800 Waterblock Seems like the only way to go here.

PUMP: An inline solution like the Swiftech 650 seems the way to go here.

RADIATOR: Black Ice Extreme? Not sure here. From what I have been reading, a shroud is a must. Also, any reason to go DUAL RADIATOR?

RESERVOIR: I love the look of the Innovatek Tank-o-Matic but the inlets are only 5/8 I believe. (is this bad) Do I even need a Res?

TUBING: Going with Tygon, I hear its the best.

COOLING LIQUID: I read about this stuff somewhere that is non-conductive and replaces water in the system. I am freaked out about getting a leak and frying everything, so I am really considering this stuff. ANY THOUGHTS?

Also, what would be the best way to have the entire system set up?
Pump>RAD>CPU>GPU>CHIPSET>RES? or should I consider Dual RAD with
PUMP>RAD>CPU>RAD>GPU>CHIPSET>Res?

Some input from the Pro's would be great here if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks A bunch

 

[bellevegasj]

First of all, I don't even have water cooling yet. I've read dozens and dozens of reviews and haven't made up my mind yet but I'll throw a couple suggestions out.

If you really want performance you need to get the MCW6002, it doesn't look half as good as the 5002 but it will cool better.

Chipset coolers seem to be for looks more than anything.

As far as a Reservoir, I still haven't made up my mind on this yet but most people suggest either using a T-line or a PVC res. Most people say that due to the heating/cooling of the water, most reservoirs will crack, PVC wont.

For a radiator, there is some guy on these forums that actually sells them with shrouds. I can't find his link right now but I heard that they work great and are inexpensive.

As for order of parts, it makes no difference.

And about the single/dual/triple radiator, I really wish I knew. From what I've read, it almost sounds like a single would work for PC water cooling systems but double and triple radiators can cool down a system faster, then you can back your fans down a bit. Possibly running a radiator with more fans at lower RPM would be more quiet. Just a thought.

I haven't found any reviews on that GPU cooler but there are concerns that it may slow down the flow of your system too much. I have a BFG 6800 GT that I flashed to Ultra speed but it runs too hot so I'll have to wait till I get better cooling to run it at that speed full-time.

I hope this info is correct and helps you...

 

[Ingonuts13]

Thanks for the response, yes I changed the 5002 to the 6002. I meant to put the 6002 there originally , just got the numbers mixed up. Also, I am not sure that your "any order" for the components statement is true. The Reservoir should definitely be right before the pump.

 

[Double Jesus]

well sounds a lot like my setup... works great! i just bought the 6002 when i switched to a64 (haven't changed my sig yet.) but i'd watch out for the swiftec pumps they used to suck really bad... not sure if they still do but i know of a lot of them that crapped out. go with the eheim or something you can buy locally, pet stores carry these things it's where i got mine. also you might want to consider just getting a heatercore from an old car. i picked one up (i'm running 2 now the bix and a heatercore) from a used parts store for $20 canadian.

finally res>pump>gpu>radiator>proc is how i have it setup and most others do as well, seems to work great.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

The Swiftech 650 pump is the same pump as the Danger Den D4. Made by a German company for industrial use. It has more head and flow than the Hydor or Eheim pumps and has a MTBF of over 50,000 hours. It's the top rated pump right now. You can't go wrong with it. They did just come out with a new version that doesn't make as much noise but the flow is down to 317 GPH instead of 370 GPH.

 

[bellevegasj]

What kind of control unit would you guys suggest for pump/fan control? Something lcd would be pimp that could speed up/slow down the fans/pump either individually or as a group. Also something that could monitor temps would be nice. =)

 

[Bio-Hazard]

Can't help you on that one............. I don't use any..........all my stuff runs full bore........

 

[Ingonuts13]

What kind of control unit would you guys suggest for pump/fan control? Something lcd would be pimp that could speed up/slow down the fans/pump either individually or as a group. Also something that could monitor temps would be nice. =)

I would check FrozenCPU, they have some fan controllers there.

 

[thewhiteguy]

Save your money and go with regular tubing. If you set things up right, there's no need for bends that vinyl tubing can't handle.

 

[cgrant26]

I'm still a big fan of the D-Tec WW or DD RBX and if your fortunate enough to find one, one of Cather's Cascase CPU blocks.

 

[Ingonuts13]

Here is my big question.... How do I leak test everything before attaching it to components if something like the 6800 Cooler should be attached beforehand? I am kind of confused as to how all the stuff gets tested for leakage first I guess. Should I just connect everything without water first, make sure the measurements are right and then leak test the system before attaching all the components?

 

[CellBlock]

I don't WC either (yet), so take this at face value.

I would leak test with the components all in place, but with the computer switched off. (Either bypass the relay or jumper the PSU) That way, you can see exactly what everything is going to do in a real-world situation. Then, if everything is good, it's a rather effortless conversion by throwing a switch or plugging in your ATX cable.

**EDIT** -- Just to clarify, if something leaks but there isn't any current running through the mobo/cards/CPU, then it won't short. You just have to make sure everything is ABSOLUTELY dry before running.

 

[Ingonuts13]

That sounds kinda dangerous either way. I was hoping to avoid getting anything wet in the first place, be it on or off.

 

[thewhiteguy]

That sounds kinda dangerous either way. I was hoping to avoid getting anything wet in the first place, be it on or off.

There's nothing dangerous about it. As long as your coolant doesn't have stuff that will etch PCBs or dissolve solder, you're fine. Don't worry, unless you're careless your stuff won't get wet in the first place.

 

[HiTech-Hate]

For a radiator, there is some guy on these forums that actually sells them with shrouds. I can't find his link right now but I heard that they work great and are inexpensive.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=761000

I'm still a big fan of the D-Tec WW or DD RBX and if your fortunate enough to find one, one of Cather's Cascase CPU blocks.

The man hit the nail straight on the head.

COOLING LIQUID: I read about this stuff somewhere that is non-conductive and replaces water in the system. I am freaked out about getting a leak and frying everything, so I am really considering this stuff. ANY THOUGHTS?

Its called FluidXP. If you feel more comfortable with it .. then use it ... but as i've made clear IMHO its a ridiculously overpriced ripoff, but like I said its your mind thats being put at ease so if like $30 for a quart is acceptable then get it. I should state though that assuming you leaktest you are at almost absolutely NO risk of EVER having a leak ... and furthermore ... if you do, you won't fry anything. A hairdryer and a few hours later and its almost gaurunteed you're soggy component will work again, I know this first hand

RADIATOR: Black Ice Extreme? Not sure here. From what I have been reading, a shroud is a must. Also, any reason to go DUAL RADIATOR?

Get a heatercore, autozone (or ready to go from danger den), screw the painted brand named extremely overpriced piece of shit radiators like the "Black Ice Extreme" etc. etc. they ARE the same as heatercores, but ridiculously overpriced. Paypal the money to guitarguy10@hotmail.com if you really want to waste it so badly

BTW the term "Dual rad' normally refers to a rad that can hold 2 120mm fans (like 2freshes in the above post). Putting two seperate rads in is HIGHLY unadvisable though. By doing so you signifigantly reduce the flowrate. Modern blocks need a high flowrate and good head because they use jet-impingement. By putting two seperate rads in you'd experience a marked degradation in performance.


The order is only signifigant in that you should connect everything such that you use the LEAST amount of tubing you can. Its normally done

Pump ---> Rad ---> CPU ---> GPU ---> Pump
or
Pump ---> CPU ---> GPU ----> Rad ----> Pump

Otherwise everything else looks ok. good luck.

 

[Ingonuts13]

Thanks for the responses guys, I am looking into all this as we speak.

My question regardign the dual rad was in respect to the Black Ice dual 120mm fan version. I will have to do less modding to my case if I go with a single 120mm but I read that you can get 3-7C temp under load withthe duals.

Also, I did look into the RBX, but procooling has them performing a bit under the 6002. One other thing about the 6002 that seems to pull me towards it is the high performance with low flow rates in comparison to any other block I have checked out.


Does anyone have a DFI875 btw that is W/C the Northbridge? If so, what are you using? (Z-Chip?)

 

[cornelious0_0]

Pump ---> CPU ---> GPU ----> Rad ----> Pump

I'll throw in another vote for that setup.....I've always recommended doing the rad after any/all of your blocks, the way I look at is that going: pump-rad-cpu-gpu-pump will lower your flow rate before the water even gets to the CPU block.....I'd just rather get the liquid TO the cpu as fast as possible, and then take the time to pass it through the rad afterwards.

But yeah, everything else is lookin' good so far.....personally I'm a DangerDen whore, so I won't bother commenting on the Swifty....great block though.

 

[Ingonuts13]

.....personally I'm a DangerDen whore, so I won't bother commenting on the Swifty....great block though.

Do you use the RBX? and is THIS the WW you guys are talking about?

 

[cornelious0_0]

Do you use the RBX? and is THIS the WW you guys are talking about?

I believe that that is the WhiteWater that so many ppl around here seem to pimp.

I absolutely HATE the rbx block with the triple barb design....that damn Y-splitter makes a horrid mess of the tubing. Not only does the TDX block cool better then the RBX (partially because the RBX was quite small, not covering the entire A64/P4 Heatspreader...whereas the TDX does)......you dont have to deal with the 3 barb design.....the best of both worlds.

 

[Ingonuts13]

Yes, I was wondering about that triple barb design. The WW has the same thing and I just don't see the ability to have a clean looking system with that many hoses all over. Maybe I will look for some pics of it in someone's system and see what kind of layout they are using.

 

[cornelious0_0]

Yes, I was wondering about that triple barb design. The WW has the same thing and I just don't see the ability to have a clean looking system with that many hoses all over. Maybe I will look for some pics of it in someone's system and see what kind of layout they are using.

Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of ppl that accomplish clean tubing jobs with the WW and RBX....it's just not my cup of tea.....which is why I still recommend the TDX, as it's also available for basically any platform.

 

[cgrant26]

On my system, I mounted the Y splitter so it merges the 2 outlet hoses together just before exiting the top rear of the case. This prevents anyone from even seeing the Y and allows me to make the tubing look a little more organized. I will admit though, if you run a 2nd block in your system, it's a bit more difficult to make the tubing look good.

single block layout:

With GPU block:

 

[cornelious0_0]

Personally I like the look of YOUR setup with the split tube look with the GPU block, but I'll agree when you say that it is harder to keep tidy.

 

[Ingonuts13]

Wow, man that looks pimping with the neon. Damnit....lol...now youg ot me thinking.

 

[cornelious0_0]

cgrant26 I just noticed something.....what's with the harddrive on the side of the case/window like that?

 

[Ingonuts13]

Another question I have is regarding fluid and reservoir.

I was really thinking about the Innovatek Tank-O-Matic. I believe this has 5/8 inlets though, will this kill my flow and performance?


I want fluid that wont require tons of changing and that has either an orange or Green Glow to it. Suggestions?

 

[cgrant26]

cgrant26 I just noticed something.....what's with the harddrive on the side of the case/window like that?

It's my old school Gateway case. The 3.5 cage holds 4 HDDs and hangs (bolts) from the crossmember support and latches to tabs on the inside front panel. IMO, it's begging for a windowd HDD to go in that first spot.

 

[black_dante]

hi, here's my opinion
i think you should get either the 6002 or TDX with nozzle 4 or 5. they cool better and are more convenient than the rbx or WW. dont need chipset block. get the 650 or DD pump (theyre identical). head > flow

As for the radiator, im pretty sure you can mount a DD double heatercore or one of 2fresh's cores on the underside of the top of the case, although i would check the measurements before buying

(see this thread "http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=760053&highlight=stacker"
for mounting ideas.. a couple people have the pc7x series)

a larger radiator means that you need less cfm (and thus dB) to maintain the same c/w as a smaller rad, but at the cost of a greater pressure drop. a larger radiator doesnt cool "faster" but rather keeps your water temp closer to ambient air temp by dissipating more heat (someone correct me on this). remember to "suck" rather than blow into the radiator with your fans.

you dont need a reservoir -
make a t-line an save yourself 20 bucks. as for tubing, your case is large and so i think clearflex would be adequate. as for the liquid, distilled water with a little
water wetter/zerex/antifreeze etc is enough. dont add too much additive as it reduces the thermal capacity of the water. the special nonconductive liquids cool worse than water, are expensive and many people have said that small water leaks usually dont damage your hardware... as long as you use steel worm clamps and leak test for a few days, leaking shouldnt be a big problem.

the order of components doesnt matter... just use what is most convenient in your case and uses the least tubing/sharp bends.

finally, the 6800 block is excessive. ram cooling is not worth it and IMO it would be smarter to get a normal gfx water block that you will be able to use on a future gfx card (with some ram sinks if you need them)

good luck

 

[Ingonuts13]

Great link black_dante. hat gave me some ideas to work with.

One questions though, I am curious why you think I wont need a chipset block? Will that not hold back my overclock?

 

[Ingonuts13]

Does anyone know of a chipset block that will work with the DFI LANPARTY875?

 

[cornelious0_0]

One questions though, I am curious why you think I wont need a chipset block? Will that not hold back my overclock?

Honestly dude, that can be a decision that's completely up to you. Most people DO go with them but in all reality, the majority of i875 NB's don't really get hot enough to be considered a hiderence for someone's OC. If you've got the extra cash for the NB block and you want that "complete" look in the loop (which IS honestly why a lot of ppl buy them) then go for it.....but I'm not going to say that it's absolutely required.