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Need recommendations on a PSU

X

xgalaxy

n00b
Joined
Aug 4, 2004
Messages
15
Thanks in advance for helping me out. I realize you guys must get 20 of these same exact questions a day, so sorry about this.

Firstly, my system specs:

Note: I dont overclock at all
Antec True450 +3.3v @ 28A, +5v @ 40A, +12v @ 20A
AMD 64 3000+
MSI K8T Neo FIS2R
1g Mushkin CAS 2 DDR 3200
Gainward 6800GT Golden Sample
LiteOn CD/DVD RW
20g WD HD
60g WD HD

Recently, my Antec 450w seems to be on the frits. When I play a game usually around an hour(this varies) or so in my computer will just reboot. It's not a 'quick' reboot. What I mean by that is the game will freeze, sound will possibly loop in typical 'the game is frozen but not the computer' fashion.. and then it will shut down around ~2 seconds after that.

When the machine reboots however it fails to find my two harddrives. Even if I shutdown and do a hard reboot it still fails to find them. I have to go through this ritual of waiting for a few minutes, usually around 5 or so minutes before I can restart the computer and the harddrives show up.

I started getting these problems about a day ago. At first I thought its possible I'm having a heating issue but looking at the temps just before the computer reboots reveals temperatures all with normal ranges:
CPU: 27c idle | 40c load
GPU: 48c idle | 55c load

I've also tried running memory tests and MemTest reveals no problems with the memory. About the only thing I havn't tried is underclocking my system but I dont know what this would prove?

Anyways to get back on point. Is my PSU on the frits or is this possibly another problem?

If it is my PSU, which I suspect but would like confirmation, can anyone point me to a good PSU for this system that is under $150.
 
http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture/?src=/images/video/ati-vs-nv-power/6800gt_table-b.gif&1=1


theoretical maximum
http://takaman.jp/D/?M=PbQBcHBdHhSvTWT4kG5@TDhH8ZAZavXCMZ&english

realworld worse case
16.2A (+12V)
270W

your supply's +12V rail derated for temperature
13.3A (+12V)


the hotter the supply the less amps\wattage
your rinnung a modern CPU powered off the +12V rail with an old school PSU that is designed to power it off the +5V rail
a modern 450 would have alot more capacity devoted to the +12V rail
the Antec 350 for instance has 30A on the +12V rails


you need an upgrade
Id recommend a Powerstream
and here is why
its an ATX12V v1.3 hybrid supply (except the 600 watt)
yet it has a 20 pin plus four pin addon that can make it a 24 pin
if you get an ATX12V v2.0 it will have a 24 pin connector and youll need to use an adapter
that can impact the voltage on the +3.3V rail
(it impacts them all but its the lower voltage that is effected the most)

alternately the drop is likely in spec anyway and could be addressed by trimming the pots inside the supply with a multimeter to verify

that Noisetaker is a 24 pin ATX12V v2.0 supply
 
Holy crap. Thank you so much for the reply =)
It's getting rather confusing for me with all these different spec powersupplies, it's hard to know what would be the best so thank you for the suggestion.
 
blame the mobo manufacturers :p

they basically put off adopting the ATX12V v2.0 spec until PCI-E forced their hand
even when CPUs and AGP videocards desperately needed the +12V amps
PSU manufacturers met that need by making ATX12V v1.3 hybrid supplies
but now there is considerable confusion :p


Power supplies become increasingly expensive
When I initially asked about this on a mailing list, Solaris x86 advocate Al Hopper told me I was drowning in my tea, and that it was "all very simple". I love the simplicity of Unix people.

He explained that the later P4 CPUs take their power from a 12 Volt feed and, using the onboard voltage regulators, generate the high current, low-voltages they need to operate (anywhere from ~ 1.6V to around 2.7V). So the first requirement is a PSU that has plenty of power available from the 12V supply. Since the older ATX compatible PSUs didn't supply much current from the 12V section you have to ensure that your new PS delivers enough current (or power in Watts) from the 12V section. That's why using your old P3 ATX PS is a big "no-no".

He then described the history of the post-P3 power supply mess:

The earlier Athlon motherboard manufacturers decided to solve the 12v problem by using an additional 4-pin square connector to get the extra 12V those CPUs required. However many older PSUs didn't provide the 12V 4-pin square connector.

The motherboard makers then wised up and decided that there was nothing magical about a square 4-pin connector, so they put a normal hard disk type socket on the motherboard and provided the 12v power via a standard hard disk (4-pin inline) connector. Problem solved - you may now use your older PSUs provided they supply sufficient 12V current (many did not).

Further confusion came from PSU manufacturers not specifying the capabilities of the PSU in a way that allowed the end user to verify it's 12V power output rating.

In the meantime the ATX spec was saying "use the new 6-pin" inline connector - and very few motherboard makers implemented it.

Just to be sure, some motherboard makers, implemented *both* the hard disk style 4-pin inline connector and the square 4-pin connector. They said "use either or both in any combination you like".

The spec then evolved to the 24-pin main connector. Again, most motherboard manufacturers did not wish to make their customers mad by mandating that they replace their power supplies. This might cause their customers to avoid motherboard upgrades. Some used a "special" 24-pin connector with the extra 4-pin connection blocked off, or colored so that the user could plugin a 20-pin plug into the correct end of the 24-pin socket on the motherboard. Many others simply ignored the 24-pin requirement in the specs. Again - problem solved - use your older PSU.
Click to expand...

Changes to the spec recently have been driven by PCI-E
and the boards are rapidly approaching the power levels of older dually mobos
thus why Ive taken the rumors the EPS12V & ATX12V specs merging very seriously
PCI-E just doubled its maximum power from 75W (6.25A +12V) to 150W (12.5A +12V) per card

ATX12V v2.0 supplies are the new adopted standard, that board really should have had a 24 pin connector but doesnt, and an adapter isnt the best solution, but you could go that route if you want to optimize the rails by trimming the pots
so that Noisetaker could workout
 
Would you say the PowerStream 420W would be sufficient for my system then? I know I shouldn't pay attention to the wattage but the ampage instead but after specifically asking in this forum awhile ago if my now defunc 450W could handle my pc and being told yes I'm a little worried if this PowerStream @ 420 can handle it.

So I guess the question is should I get the PowerStream 420W or the 520W?
Thanks again for all your help!
 
1. these are your first posts in the PSU forum :p

2 the 420 is rated at 40C and thus doesnt need much if any derating for temperature
at 30A on the +12V rail it has plenty with room for upgrades

;)

as far as the 520, well what upgrades are you considering?
 
EDIT:

Actually I lied. I'm replacing the the 2 harddrives with a new 200gig drive, and I'm taking out the 6800GT and putting in an x800XT SE
 
still plenty of room

where youd consider the 520 is, say no AC in the summer (far hotter less capacity)
maybe an upgrade to a PCI-E board might even still be adequate for a PCI-E SLi

max theoretical dual PCI-E SLi (75W cards)
http://takaman.jp/D/?M=PbQBcHBdHhSvTWT4kG5I2ZAZavXCMZ&english

youd then use the extra 4 pin addon
but lack the dedicated PCI-E 6 pin video connectors and need to use adapter for those

another senerio youd add alot of storage
like a BIG RAID 6, 8, 10 drives at 2A spinup draw per drive (that drops to about 0.5A once spinning and RAID cards often have delayed spinup options)
 
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