Need Quick Reference!

[Planettera]

I need a quick help before I loose my chance on getting one before it sells out.

Now that HD 5870 sold everywhere, I need to settle for the second best performance card from the following options that are currently in stock:

1) BFG GTX 295 1792MB (Not the OC version)
2) EVGA GTX 295 1792MB (017-P3-1295-AR CO-OP Edition)
3) BFG GTX 285 1MB (OCX Edition) (I was told this was better then the BFG GTX 295 by the BFG Technical Support Rep.)
4) HD 5850

Please give me the 1st and 2nd best, just in case any are sold out.

Here is what I planned on getting:

1) Cooler Master ATCS 840 Case
2) ASUS P6TD Deluxe Motherboard
3) Corsair 850HX Power Supply
4) Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield CPU
5) Thermalright Ultra-120 CPU Cooler
6) 12GB Corsair DDR TR3X6G1600C8D DDR3 Memory
7) Two Seagate SE.2 500GB 7200RPM Hard Drives (Raid 1)
8) One Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB 7200RPM Hard Drive (Data Back Up Only)
9) Creative Labs Platinum Fatal1ty Championship Sound Card
10) Two Plextor 24X PX-880SA DVD Drive
11) Linksys WMP54GS Wireless PCI Adapter

 

[notsane]

Don't hurry, you will regret it later. You can always find nvidia cards right now. Finding 5800 series cards is another matter.

 

[notsane]

We need more information to help you choose. What is the other hardware are you running (be specific including part numbers and especially power supply and monitor res).

The best performing single gpu card right now is the ati 5870. The problem is that people are gouging prices since the supply is limited. This may be overkill for you if your monitor only runs at 1680x1050 or you have and older CPU etc. Once this card is priced up to $440+ (like etailers are charging right now) it starts to creep into gtx295 price point which performs better in many games. The gtx295 is actully two gtx275 gpus on a single card in sli and some games that don't scale well in sli. You need to figure out which games you are playing to see which hardware you need. As far as the ati 5850 goes, it performs great for the money if it is sold at msrp, etailers are gouging on these right now due to low supply, so you need to carefully evaluate the price vs performance. The gtx285 card was the fastest single gpu card up until a month or so ago when the 5870 came out. Right now gtx285 cards are generally priced too high for their performance. ($375 is too high). If you can find a deal and there are no 5800 series cards in stock anywhere at a resonable price, it may still be an option (again, depends on your res, power supply, cpu etc). The gtx280 can also be a good option depending on price.

 

[Mr. K6]

If you can find a 5850 for around $300, go for it. Otherwise, hold off. I always warn against buying old technology with a new purchase.

 

[notsane]

If you can find a 5850 for around $300, go for it. Otherwise, hold off. I always warn against buying old technology with a new purchase.

I agree with Mr. K6 when it comes to old tech, but the OP sounded desperate to make the decision now (that is never a good position to be in).

I would like to qualify my earlier statements by adding that you should wait for an XFX 5870 (under $400) (XFX has lifetime warranty) and not buy anything until then... if you absolutely can't wait you see the other options I laid out.

Thanks Mr. K6 for pointing that out.

 

[Planettera]

I have provided all the parts that I have purchased above.

Now, when it comes to not rushing, I don't have this option at the moment. I need to get a video card now, because if any of the components are defective I need to send it back before my return period expires. Unfortunatley only video card that I have right now is AGP, so I need a new PCI video card to build up my PC.

I have checked the current availability by calling the company directly and it seems like the 5850 are all gone. My first choice was was XFX 5870, but after contacting the head buyer of +++++++ and DATAVIS.com which are local super computer stores near wher I live, they stated that these won't be stocking until first week of january nationwide.

I really need to purchase a video card now for the reason above, and would greatly appreciate any suggestions from the choices above only.

To simply put, is the BFG GTX 295 a faster/powerful video card then the BFG GTX 285 OCX? Here is the BFG website for the specifications:

http://www.bfgtech.com/Product.aspx?Category=Graphics

 

[Mr. K6]

I have provided all the parts that I have purchased above.

Now, when it comes to not rushing, I don't have this option at the moment. I need to get a video card now, because if any of the components are defective I need to send it back before my return period expires. Unfortunatley only video card that I have right now is AGP, so I need a new PCI video card to build up my PC.

I have checked the current availability by calling the company directly and it seems like the 5850 are all gone. My first choice was was XFX 5870, but after contacting the head buyer of +++++++ and DATAVIS.com which are local super computer stores near wher I live, they stated that these won't be stocking until first week of january nationwide.

I really need to purchase a video card now for the reason above, and would greatly appreciate any suggestions from the choices above only.

To simply put, is the BFG GTX 295 a faster/powerful video card then the BFG GTX 285 OCX? Here is the BFG website for the specifications:

http://www.bfgtech.com/Product.aspx?Category=Graphics

No one local you could bum a PCIe card off in the meantime, I take it?

In that case, head to Newegg, zipzoomfly, mwave, buy.com, tigerdirect, ncixus, and any other online retailer I'm forgetting, sign-up for in-stock auto-notifications on ~$310 5850's, and camp your email. 5850 shipments come in, they just go quickly. I really can't recommend buying either the GTX285 or GTX295 unless the price is right. While the GTX295 is much faster than the GTX285, neither are impressive when compared to the HD5850. If you can get a GTX285 for ~$225 or less or a GTX295 for $350 or less, sure, jump on them, those are good prices, otherwise you're over paying and might as well go for the 5850's that are in stock at ~$350.

 

[notsane]

You may want to post some form of this question in general hardware as they tend to respond very quickly and have a very pragmatic outlook (there are lots of regular posters there). Make sure to answer the questions in the stickies (you already have most answers).

I Think that you are spending so much on your other hardware a single 5850 is going to leave you itching for more. I would try to get a 5870 or 5970 or some form of crossfire.

Could you buy a lower end card on sale for testing purposes and re-sell or return? Don't you have Best Buy or Fry's nearby? Are you sure that no one could loan you a card?

 

[Planettera]

I was warned before for double posting and don't know how to move this to a general hardware sectoin. Otherwise, that's a good suggestion, thank you.

I have already purchased all the hardware, and since my knowledge and experience would be considered a notch above avarage, my main source on selecting hardware were the review from multiple forums and internet search. I agree that I could have probably gotten away with other brands and models but, a lot of people chime in with many different suggestions where it gets very confusing on choosing a particular item.

I don't have many friend who know a lot about computer and for that matter most of the by complete systems mostly from HP. It would have been great to get a loaner until the 5870 become available.

Meanwhile, I did some reading on review on the video cards and although the 5850 is a newer technology, 295 seems to blow away the 5850. Being suggested to choose the 5850 over 295 confused me at this point after what I read. I would appreciate it if someone could please explain this.

I have signed up to all auto notifications on many websites and am schecking few times a day to have a chance to grab one. I found a BFG GTX 295 for $430 and XFX 5850 for $360.

I have Best Buy, Staples, & Office Depot near where I live, but I wonder what there return policies are for video cards?

 

[Mr. K6]

I was warned before for double posting and don't know how to move this to a general hardware sectoin. Otherwise, that's a good suggestion, thank you.

I have already purchased all the hardware, and since my knowledge and experience would be considered a notch above avarage, my main source on selecting hardware were the review from multiple forums and internet search. I agree that I could have probably gotten away with other brands and models but, a lot of people chime in with many different suggestions where it gets very confusing on choosing a particular item.

I don't have many friend who know a lot about computer and for that matter most of the by complete systems mostly from HP. It would have been great to get a loaner until the 5870 become available.

Meanwhile, I did some reading on review on the video cards and although the 5850 is a newer technology, 295 seems to blow away the 5850. Being suggested to choose the 5850 over 295 confused me at this point after what I read. I would appreciate it if someone could please explain this.

I have signed up to all auto notifications on many websites and am schecking few times a day to have a chance to grab one. I found a BFG GTX 295 for $430 and XFX 5850 for $360.

I have Best Buy, Staples, & Office Depot near where I live, but I wonder what there return policies are for video cards?

I give my opinions based on what I would do with the cards, so I might have gotten too far ahead of myself in respect to my recommendations.

At basic (stock) configurations, let's say you can get a 5850 for MSRP ($300) and a GTX295 for MSRP ($500).

The 5850 offers much lower power consumption, quieter operation, and features like DX11, Eyefinity, great AF, etc.

The GTX295 offers greater absolute performance and features like PhysX

However, any time you can offer me a single GPU card that offers nearly the performance (or greater), I will take it and pay more of it than a dual GPU solution. The reason is single GPU has much smoother gameplay, and multi-GPU can have glitches, slowdowns, and idiosyncrasies that can sometimes be a pain. I bought a GTX295 on release day last January and was very happy and impressed with it. Nine months later, after reading the buzz and previews on the 5870, I bought a 5870 on release day and it has trumped my experience with the GTX295 in every single aspect. You simply cannot beat these new cards, from power consumption, to quiet operation, to insane overclocking capabilities, they're amazing. To expand, the gameplay is just so much smoother it makes a much better experience. I can also say that without a doubt my 5870 @ 900/1250+ is much faster than my GTX295 @ 648/1116 was. Now there will probably be a few posters that come in here and post benchmarks from reviews done on release day that say "oh but the GTX295 is xx% faster than the 5850/70 etc." Bullshit, I've owned both cards and my 5870 is definitely faster; new drivers have done wonders for these cards.

Now I realize you're looking at 5850 and not the 5870, but my recommendations largely stay the same. The reason is clockspeeds seem to be architecturally limited with respect to cooling, so if you're into overclocking, there really isn't much difference between the 5850 and 5870. I mentioned before that these cards are a breeze to overclock, and mainly that's because voltage is adjusted via software. They also run very cool and quiet and the stock coolers have a pretty beefy capacity. If you look around the forums, most people get their 5850's into the 950-1000MHz range as do most 5870's. There's already so much shader power available at these frequencies that the difference between 1440 shaders and 1600 shaders is largely insignificant.

The GTX295, on the other hand, was a pain in the ass to overclock. Even if you got a good set of cores, it'd usually crap out before it even hit 680MHz because of the heat output and inadequate heatsink. Pretty much any overclocking required running the fan at 100% at full load (which was loud), and the stock configuration idle fan was at 40%, which was louder than I would have liked as well (although necessary until it was undervolted). While the GTX295 also can have its GPU voltage adjusted via software, it's useless because heat is more of the limiting factor, not voltage. Now some of this may have changed with the new single-PCB designs, but from the reviews I read on the release, it didn't seem like they were getting any higher clocks out of the cards.

Now if that got too technical for what you're wanting to do here, I apologize. If you're going to keep things simple and at stock, it's as I said, the 5850 is cheaper, quiet, cool, has DX11 and Eyefinity, and will give very smooth and enjoyable gameplay. The GTX295 is more expensive, faster (again, if you aren't overclocking) and has PhysX, but also runs louder, much hotter, and has more power consumption. Figure out what you're looking for in your purchase and go for it.

 

[Planettera]

I give my opinions based on what I would do with the cards, so I might have gotten too far ahead of myself in respect to my recommendations.

At basic (stock) configurations, let's say you can get a 5850 for MSRP ($300) and a GTX295 for MSRP ($500).

The 5850 offers much lower power consumption, quieter operation, and features like DX11, Eyefinity, great AF, etc.

The GTX295 offers greater absolute performance and features like PhysX

However, any time you can offer me a single GPU card that offers nearly the performance (or greater), I will take it and pay more of it than a dual GPU solution. The reason is single GPU has much smoother gameplay, and multi-GPU can have glitches, slowdowns, and idiosyncrasies that can sometimes be a pain. I bought a GTX295 on release day last January and was very happy and impressed with it. Nine months later, after reading the buzz and previews on the 5870, I bought a 5870 on release day and it has trumped my experience with the GTX295 in every single aspect. You simply cannot beat these new cards, from power consumption, to quiet operation, to insane overclocking capabilities, they're amazing. To expand, the gameplay is just so much smoother it makes a much better experience. I can also say that without a doubt my 5870 @ 900/1250+ is much faster than my GTX295 @ 648/1116 was. Now there will probably be a few posters that come in here and post benchmarks from reviews done on release day that say "oh but the GTX295 is xx% faster than the 5850/70 etc." Bullshit, I've owned both cards and my 5870 is definitely faster; new drivers have done wonders for these cards.

Now I realize you're looking at 5850 and not the 5870, but my recommendations largely stay the same. The reason is clockspeeds seem to be architecturally limited with respect to cooling, so if you're into overclocking, there really isn't much difference between the 5850 and 5870. I mentioned before that these cards are a breeze to overclock, and mainly that's because voltage is adjusted via software. They also run very cool and quiet and the stock coolers have a pretty beefy capacity. If you look around the forums, most people get their 5850's into the 950-1000MHz range as do most 5870's. There's already so much shader power available at these frequencies that the difference between 1440 shaders and 1600 shaders is largely insignificant.

The GTX295, on the other hand, was a pain in the ass to overclock. Even if you got a good set of cores, it'd usually crap out before it even hit 680MHz because of the heat output and inadequate heatsink. Pretty much any overclocking required running the fan at 100% at full load (which was loud), and the stock configuration idle fan was at 40%, which was louder than I would have liked as well (although necessary until it was undervolted). While the GTX295 also can have its GPU voltage adjusted via software, it's useless because heat is more of the limiting factor, not voltage. Now some of this may have changed with the new single-PCB designs, but from the reviews I read on the release, it didn't seem like they were getting any higher clocks out of the cards.

Now if that got too technical for what you're wanting to do here, I apologize. If you're going to keep things simple and at stock, it's as I said, the 5850 is cheaper, quiet, cool, has DX11 and Eyefinity, and will give very smooth and enjoyable gameplay. The GTX295 is more expensive, faster (again, if you aren't overclocking) and has PhysX, but also runs louder, much hotter, and has more power consumption. Figure out what you're looking for in your purchase and go for it.

Mr. K6, can't thank you enought for your call out to my help. Actually you covered all my questions, and couldn't have asked for a better explanation in details.

I am not currently planning on overclocking my GPU to push the limits. Meanwhile I have called both Staples and Best Buy and they have a 30 day return policy on their video cards. So I am planning on purcashing a simple video card a make do with it until the 5870's are back in stock. If I can't find one within the given 30 day period, I will definiely go with a 5850 instead of 295 that I had set mind mind on before.

 

[edifyingkarma]

Yep, I agree with most in saying that if you cannot find the 5850, hold off for a bit. The 295's are still powerful but they are also hot, energy hogs, too expensive, and old tech. Im stretching my 8800GT for a bit longer personally. I dont like to enter the market when there is no competition (ie price wars) and I am not desperate at this current point in time.

DO NOT get a GTX 285 though. They are significantly more expensive than the HD 5850s and offer about 15-20% less performance than the 5850s on average

 

[Planettera]

Yep, I agree with most in saying that if you cannot find the 5850, hold off for a bit. The 295's are still powerful but they are also hot, energy hogs, too expensive, and old tech. Im stretching my 8800GT for a bit longer personally. I dont like to enter the market when there is no competition (ie price wars) and I am not desperate at this current point in time.

DO NOT get a GTX 285 though. They are significantly more expensive than the HD 5850s and offer about 15-20% less performance than the 5850s on average

Thank you, the 285 is off the list for sure and will hang in by getting a cheap video card until 5870's are back in stock.

 

[Planettera]

Quick update, the XFX 5870's are back in stock on newegg and had a chance to grab one.

Thank you for everyone who helped me out iron the details on the questions which I had for the video cards above.