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Need new microphone and or Headset

D

Dougjwjr

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
274
Alright, I dont know what I want exactly lets hope you guys can help me figure it out. Right now I have a set of Sony MDR V6 Studio headphones that I really like. With that, I've for a while been using a Zalman Zm-Mic1 clip on microphone, and I like the idea but I dont like the mic. It's a cheap mic, breaks easily and has mediocre quality. I want something better.

It would be nice if I could get another clip on mic, one that's better, but at the same time I'm interested in just getting a headset for the convenience of all in one.

The problem I have with the headset is I already have my headphones, they're great, but without a mic available for gaming or talking on skype or the like, how often will I use them? I doubt I would a whole lot. I dont know...

Cost isn't really a big issue, lower is better but quality is supreme. (Just to include something, cap at $200, but I'm more interested in the $100 range, you get the idea)
 
Well, unfortunately all the nice clip on mics I know of are pretty expensive. For example a Shure SM11 would do a nice job. However it is $100, and you'd have to get something to convert it from XLR to something your PC accepts, or perhaps a mic preamp depending on your soundcard. However it meets the requirements of being high quality. They have even higher quality ones, though they cost more and are condenser mics so you'd need something to provide power to them.

In terms of headsets I can't be much help as I've never used any. However if I were looking I would look at the Sennheiser PC 350 first as I like and trust Sennheiser headphones and microphones, I've used both in professional settings.
 
Alright, I've decided to go with a Headset. Now, the process of finding which one would be right for me.

I prefer Circumaural over just about anything else.
I would like to periodically travel with it, with my laptop. This, on top of wanting to keep them for several years, means I need them to be fairly durable. I travel often with my Sony MDR V6 headphones and have yet to have any problems.
Still have a $200 budget, and I wont be buying immediately, but probably within the next month.
I do not need noise canceling but if they have them, fine.
5.1 or 7.1 interests me in regards to games but not for things like music where... well, I dont know about you guys but to me, music in surround sound sounds like shit. That ought to be configurable though, and shouldn't be an issue.

What I've seen and am currently interested in:
Logitech G35
Sennheiser PC 166
Sennheiser PC 350
SteelSeries 61001SS

Short list, just giving an idea of what I've looked at, I'm a little rushed, leaving, I might add more later.

I've also looked at the RAZER Megalodon, and decided against it due to what appears to be a high frequency of problems cutting out.
Also decided against the Sennheiser PC 166.


While I'm on this topic, I must note I currently dont have a soundcard. I intend on getting one soon, maybe with the headset, maybe not, but for now I'm using onboard sound.
 
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Sennheiser PC 350 but senns really like to be amped, running from an unamped source may disappoint. but as far as headset quality, you can't beat the senns out of what you listed, the 5.1 and 7.1's are nice to have the positioning for gaming but its very disappointing when coming to music, sound quality suffers with all those tiny drivers in the cans. a good set of top quality stereo headphones will never disappoint, also you can use an audio processor/sound card to simulate 5.1 in headphones for gaming, i use an earforce dss auido processor or an astro mixamp for gaming, and its pro, i can hear crouching foot steps across and under a hallway. my advice would be to skip the shitty tiny drivers in the 5.1/7.1 sets and go for the senns.
 
Yeah, I'm in love with my PC350's but I have a Xonar Essence STX with a headphone amp built in. 150oms is a bit much to not have an amp.
 
An amp for a headset? What.. I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with this idea. What are we talking about for this, can I see an example? A little clarification would be nice.
 
Dougjwjr said:
An amp for a headset? What.. I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with this idea. What are we talking about for this, can I see an example? A little clarification would be nice.
Click to expand...

A headphone amp. Some headphones require more power to perform at their best. The PC350 being one of them. I use the amp built into the ASUS Xonar Essence STX sound card.

DyNamiC. said:
Here is the amp that I use:

http://www.astrogaming.com/products/detail/69/MixAmp/

[H] did a great review on it. Should be sticked in this forum.
Click to expand...

The MixAmp isn't really an amp, btw.
 
Interesting, this makes me think I might want to get something else entirely. the setup I currently have doesn't allow me a lot of options the way I see it. I have an antec 900 case under my desk, if I have to I can plug a headset into a usb or b the mic and sound in on the front of the case. However I cannot see these, it's a stretch to reach. Right now, I have logitech z-2300 speakers which give me a 3.5mm jack right on my desk which is most convenient (with the clip on mic I've been using plugged into the back).

To get an amp-and to use it-would likely require plugging into it, which would mean into the back. I could do that but it would be very inconvenient for me. I switch from headphones to speakers quite often. Ugh, I really don't know what I ought to do
 
though it isnt super powerful, the mixamp caps at 32ohm which will drive most cans including the senns/audio technicas, although its mainly an audio processor. I have a fiio E5 portable headphone amp for traveling or when using my high end headphones on my smartphone, it does a pretty good job, definitely worth the 20$ it cost. some of the nicer cans need a bit more power to shine, the quality of these stereo drivers will not disappoint. (listening to my senns hd555's now) just fantastic.

I run an amp on my set up, the amp stays plugged in all the time and i have a 3.5mm extension plugged into the mic port on the pc so i don't have to plug junk in the back or front of the machine everytime i want to play.
 
criccio said:
A headphone amp. Some headphones require more power to perform at their best. The PC350 being one of them. I use the amp built into the ASUS Xonar Essence STX sound card.



The MixAmp isn't really an amp, btw.
Click to expand...

How is the Mixamp not really an amp? It has enough power to drive 250 ohm DT880's.
 
DyNamiC. said:
How is the Mixamp not really an amp? It has enough power to drive 250 ohm DT880's.
Click to expand...

Well, you see...

G-Prime said:
though it isnt super powerful, the mixamp caps at 32ohm which will drive most cans including the senns/audio technicas, although its mainly an audio processor.
Click to expand...

Yep.

My MP3 player is usable with my DT-770's, as is the mixamp, but they still sound significantly different through a good amp. I like the Mixamp. I really do. It's a nice piece of kit, especially for people that use their consoles at their desk with their PC monitor. It's pretty awesome for that.

But it's not a substitute for a quality headphone amp. I have a NuForce Icon I keep in my laptop bag and the Little Dot MKIII at home and both do a better job with the 770's than the Mixamp.
 
That doesn't change the fact that it is still an amp. It isn't awesomely high powered, but it is still an amplifier.

Comparing the Mixamp to a tube amplifier in power output/ ohms is funny to say the least.
 
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DyNamiC. said:
Comparing the Mixamp to a tube amplifier in power output/ ohms is funny to say the least.
Click to expand...

Way to completely ignore the point.

Nobody's comparing it directly to a tube amp. The point is that it simply isn't a substitute for an actual quality headphone amp. It might run a pair of 250 ohm DT880's, sure, so will the headphone out on my mp3 player, but it's not pushing them the way they really need to be pushed to sound their best. There are other non tube amps out there for equal or less money that actually will drive some of the nicer headphones. The NuForce Icon that's already been mentioned on these boards many a time is one, as is the FiiO E7.

It just isn't going to do justice to a lot of headphones. Some cans that do work well with the mixamp are very popular, like the Audiotechnica AH-700's and AD-700's, the Sennheiser HD-595's, and any of the new model Beyerdynamic 32 ohm sets. But saying the Mixamp really drives a pair of 250 ohm beyerdynamics well is just misinformation.

If you think it sounds fine, that's great. It means you can stick with what you have and save some money on more gear, but telling other people the Mixamp is really good as headphone amps go... that's the part I disagree with.
 
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My point was to Cricco saying that it isn't really an amplifier.

I'm recommending it based on the fact it has a place that isn't filled by any other amplifiers. It takes a multitude of inputs, does Dolby decoding, and lets you mix game chat/ game sound. Since he is looking at a headset currently it is a decent option for him



You yourself compared the Mixamp to a tube amp:

ThinJ said:
I have a NuForce Icon I keep in my laptop bag and the Little Dot MKIII at home and both do a better job with the 770's than the Mixamp.
Click to expand...

At no point did I claim it to be the end all solution to headphone amps. It would certainly drive the Sennheiser PC 350 without issue.
 
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DyNamiC. said:
You yourself compared the Mixamp to a tube amp:
Click to expand...

That is in no way a direct comparison. I was simply pointing out that it doesn't drive a lot of higher end headphones (or even mid-range, like the 770's) as well as pretty much any more dedicated headphone amp. But now we're arguing semantics.

I don't disagree that the Mixamp is a good piece of hardware. I said as much. I use mine at least a couple of times a week. I just took issue with the claim that it handles 250 ohm headphones very well. It's a weak amp combined with some other very nice features. That means it works very well with certain headphones and in the right situations. If your needs meet any of those, it's an excellent piece of hardware.
 
I think upon thinking about it further I will instead go for a stand up mic/whatever you wanna call it, desktop mic. They aren't too expensive (or rather they dont have to be), means I can continue using my headphones, and simplifies things greatly given my current situation/setup.
 
That can work. Only problem is having to lean in to talk in to the mic. If you turn your head you may get hard to hear. Not a big deal, but I got tired of it and hence have a headworn mic now.
 
I just read most of the above and... well, just. no. clue.

The problem with the PC350 isn't that it needs amping (the fauxdiophile's mantra - if it doesn't sound right, crank it up until you burst your eardrums :rolleyes:).

The issue is that it has Sennheiser's signature diffuse-field sound, which I'm not entirely convinced is suitable for gaming despite the way it's marketed. It is accurate (in its price band) and has an ability to hit both highs and lows decently, but the sound signature is, dare I say it, rather soporific for gaming purposes. If you want to overcome it by being dumb enough to crank up the volume, well that's your call. Now that said, if you're going to wear this and game all day, then yes - you'd actually want something that's unfatiguing to listen to, and the Senn satisfies in that respect.

Personally I want more kick to the sound for short periods of gaming, which is why I favour the G35. I also don't want any distractions in-game and the Logitechs actually isolate, something you can't say for the Senn - which has, at best, Audio-Technical levels of isolation (i.e. at best a thin blanket over your head). In stereo mode, the G35 is also surprisingly capable. The only issue for long-term wear is the clampy fit in order to provide that isolation - some might find it uncomfortable, although I can tolerate it with zero problems. To me the G35 also has better features than the Senn, such as the very convenient 'swing up to kill' mic.

I fully admit to wallowing in the same ignorance as most of the 'fauxdiophile' members and going the ZM-Mic1/table mic way in line with 'common audiophile wisdom', which I'm thinking more and more is an oxymoron. In my defence however it was for a very short time, and because I didn't want to take tape to the Orpheus. The moment I bought my first decent headset, I was like: "I was so dumb". My main general-purpose headset is the Beyer MMX 300. The G35's are gaming-only.
 
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While I agree that many audiophile types get far too amp-happy, you shouldn't think they are useless. Depending on the headphone, an amp can be needed. In some cases it is just volume. High impedance phones (like say the Sennheiser 580s) need an amp to reach good volume levels.

However there is another, more or less opposite reason as well. Low impedance phones often need an amp to have good bass, and a noise free sound. The reason is that if phones are low impedance, they require a lot of current to drive. Most line outputs aren't good at that, they are designed to see high impedance sources. The strain makes them hiss in some cases, and have poor bass.

I encountered this with my Shure SE420 earbuds. They don't need any help getting loud, like most earbuds they can shatter your skull with little power. However they have really poor bass when plugged directly in to my laptop. For that reason, I got them a little portable amp which fixes the problem nicely.

So I'm certainly not going to recommend amps for everyone, many headphones have no need, but I also don't like this amp-hate that some people sling. They have uses, and you can find out the electronics theory behind why. It isn't just a "Use your ears and hear the magic that we can't measure." It is "These components react a certain way when subject to certain loads, and you can see it on a scope."
 
Sycraft said:
While I agree that many audiophile types get far too amp-happy, you shouldn't think they are useless. Depending on the headphone, an amp can be needed. In some cases it is just volume. High impedance phones (like say the Sennheiser 580s) need an amp to reach good volume levels.

However there is another, more or less opposite reason as well. Low impedance phones often need an amp to have good bass, and a noise free sound. The reason is that if phones are low impedance, they require a lot of current to drive. Most line outputs aren't good at that, they are designed to see high impedance sources. The strain makes them hiss in some cases, and have poor bass.

I encountered this with my Shure SE420 earbuds. They don't need any help getting loud, like most earbuds they can shatter your skull with little power. However they have really poor bass when plugged directly in to my laptop. For that reason, I got them a little portable amp which fixes the problem nicely.

So I'm certainly not going to recommend amps for everyone, many headphones have no need, but I also don't like this amp-hate that some people sling. They have uses, and you can find out the electronics theory behind why. It isn't just a "Use your ears and hear the magic that we can't measure." It is "These components react a certain way when subject to certain loads, and you can see it on a scope."
Click to expand...

You're thinking about this the other way around. Low impedance phones don't 'need an amp to sound good'. It's just that some shitty headphone/line outputs need a high enough load presented to it to work acceptably. Try sticking an inline volume control instead of the amp into your cruddy laptop's line/hp output (cranked at full volume), and you'll see what I mean. And if your output stage is that shitty, perhaps you should be looking at a different output stage.

That aside, the PC 350 has an inline volume control - and if you're using this to adjust levels rather than the PC's audio (and most people will probably use a mix), the effective presented load can be in the kohms at a comfortable listening level. Is that susceptible to the above effect? No. So will it respond to amping? Only if the amp itself explicitly shapes the tone - and in that case, you're on a fricken PC - EQ it if you want a tonal character diferent from what the phone natively delivers that much.

There is so much BS in the whole amping thing.
 
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No I'm really not. I'm not speaking from an ear point of view, I'm speaking from an electronics point of view. You take an opamp and hook it directly to a scope, which is a very high impedance input, and measure the performance. Take that same opamp, and hook it in to a heavy current load and then the performance changes (for the worse). This is easy to see, and not too hard to understand why, if you know basic electronics theory.

As an example of an extreme case, take speakers. If you listen to speakers at a low volume, you aren't putting much voltage in them. Somewhere around 1v or less for 1 watt of output. Professional line level can achieve that (1.2VRMS). Yet you'd never plug speakers in to a line output, doing so could damage it. Why is that? Well because the speakers are low impedance. They need a lot of current to produce their levels, and the line output isn't suited for it. Hence even for low level you need a power amp, a device that can deal with that heavy current load, and also the reactive nature of the load.

Speakers and headphones are not simple DC resistance loads. They vary along the complex (as in real and imaginary numbers) impedance plane. You can see a graph of my speakers, which are an example of pretty well designed ones here. The dark line is the real impedance against frequency, the light line is the electrical phase against frequency. What's more, they are capacitive loads, when you put energy in to the speaker to move the cone, it moves back, and that creates return currents down the line.

If you are interested in this I can try and find some technical information for you online related to this. More fun is to play with it yourself but that does require a scope and so on, which isn't the cheapest thing in the world to get.
 
What has that got to do with what we're discussing here? We're not discussing the behaviour of discrete components.

And why state the obvious about complex loads? Sure, some have some really weird curves - but in most cases, in the context of the above discussion, the average impedance is absolutely sufficient basis for discussion.

I rented the services (and gear) of a telco engineering firm just to get behind cable BS for starters. Don't try and teach granddad how to suck eggs, as they say over here.
 
What it has to do with is the reason why headphone amplification can be necessary for things other than volume. If you think that's all it is then it implies you don't fully understand how things work. Sticking a resistor in line with the headphones is not going to help matters (if that's all there was to it you really think it wouldn't be done by default?).

Some headphones need an amp to sound good, that is just how it goes. Whether that is the case or not depends on the headphones in question, but also the source. After all, some devices have perfectly good headphone amps built in.

I just do not like this "amps don't matter" position any more than the "amps are the most important component." Both indicate someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

In the case of the PC350s, I suspect a normal PC soundcard is probably good enough in most cases. These days they do usually have an opamp on the main output that can handle headphones and Sennheiser presumably made them to be driven as such.

However a cheap amp might not be a bad idea, particularly not knowing what soundcard they have. Some are just not designed for anything but line level loads. Had that with my old system at work. The cheap onboard sound (can't remember the make) hissed with my AD700s. Easy phones to drive over all, but the damn thing hissed. The new system, no problems. They sound fine right on the output. A $50 headphone amp is not a bad idea to prevent problems, and have an easy to use volume control.

I just won't put up with audio luddism, the "Nothing makes any difference, cheap gear is all anyone ever needs," any more than I will audiophile "You need to buy $50,000 speakers to really hear the sound," BS.

For me, it ultimately comes down to measurement and guess what, amps have a measurable difference in many cases.
 
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