Need Linux help - screen keeps flickering

[NoOther]

1. I am willing to try any other advice. About kernel updates, when I reboot I just see the KDE plasma logo, no POST. When you install a new kernel, does it store the previous kernels so you can select them at boot, and is this automatic?

It depends on the Linux branch you are using and how you install the kernel. If you "update" the kernel, it will install over top of the old kernel. If you "install" a new kernel, it will install it beside the old kernel and you should get an option in grub to boot the old kernel. If you do not see the option, you can look on the system for the old kernel and manually create an option to boot to it. For the Debian tree, when you use dpkg, I believe there is only the option to install. Depending on how the package is made will depend largely on the actions taken.

2. I can also try a fresh install of Kubuntu. Actually I read about SUSE Tumbleweed which is a rolling release which means it will get the latest updates much sooner, right? But its not Debian based so the community, support etc is much smaller. Not sure if its worth it. I do like what I read of Yast.

I would still recommend trying the Debian base and installing KDE plasma. This will get you closer to the core files and faster kernel updates. I believe this will be a better way to troubleshoot the problems with the screen flickering, especially if it is related to power settings. You could even install stretch, which includes the latest intel power settings integrated into the Debian build.

3. I guess I can also try a non KDE DE like Mate

The most supported DM at the moment is Gnome. If you don't like Gnome, you could also try lighter DMs like aptly named lightdm or the very popular XFCE.

3. Finally, this laptop came with a Win 10 entitlement and I'll go back to that if none of this works out.

I believe you meant to label this 4 . I mean if you absolutely positively need this system up and running right away, you could go that route. But I think it is valuable to learn and use Linux, especially as you get more proficient you will find there is far more you will be able to do and far more you will learn about many areas of computing with the crazy volume of open source that is readily at your fingertips. But that is just my opinion.

 

[MrCrispy]

I do have tlp installed. When I installed Linux the battery life was horrible, less than half of what I was getting in Windows, and the most common advice was to install tlp. Now it shows battery life to be about 70-80% of W10, I haven't actually run it for that long due to the flicker issue.

Right now I've resorted to shutting down/restart vs sleep, its the only way to use this.

I've noticed other issues - the GUI speed in general seems slow. I had to change the animation speed in the KDE settings to 'very fast' or minimal, otherwise simple things like minimize would have delays. When I look at KSysGuard, I see Kwin taking up 8-10% cpu at idle, when moving windows it jumps up. VLC says hw accel is enabled, but playing video it uses 40-50% cpu. This is all very strange as this should not use any cpu at all. I tried to change the window switcher, and got an error that some libs were missing or something, and only the basic plain one works.

Is there something similar to Drivers in Linux which can search for updated drivers, since the Intel util doesn't work and sudo apt update has nothing.

 

[BulletDust]

I do have tlp installed. When I installed Linux the battery life was horrible, less than half of what I was getting in Windows, and the most common advice was to install tlp. Now it shows battery life to be about 70-80% of W10, I haven't actually run it for that long due to the flicker issue.

Right now I've resorted to shutting down/restart vs sleep, its the only way to use this.

I've noticed other issues - the GUI speed in general seems slow. I had to change the animation speed in the KDE settings to 'very fast' or minimal, otherwise simple things like minimize would have delays. When I look at KSysGuard, I see Kwin taking up 8-10% cpu at idle, when moving windows it jumps up. VLC says hw accel is enabled, but playing video it uses 40-50% cpu. This is all very strange as this should not use any cpu at all. I tried to change the window switcher, and got an error that some libs were missing or something, and only the basic plain one works.

Is there something similar to Drivers in Linux which can search for updated drivers, since the Intel util doesn't work and sudo apt update has nothing.

You have to uninstall tlp, flicker happens when the iGPU is stuck in power saving mode as the clocks are too low for the refresh rate.

 

[MrCrispy]

You have to uninstall tlp, flicker happens when the iGPU is stuck in power saving mode as the clocks are too low for the refresh rate.

Ok now that I think back, this may have started when I installed tlp? I was really suprised when I saw the battery life estimate was so low in Linux, googled and found tlp was the answer. Is there any way to tell it not to use power saving when resuming? Are there any other ways to improve battery life?

What about the other graphics issues I mentioned? The high cpu usage etc.

 

[BulletDust]

Ok now that I think back, this may have started when I installed tlp? I was really suprised when I saw the battery life estimate was so low in Linux, googled and found tlp was the answer. Is there any way to tell it not to use power saving when resuming? Are there any other ways to improve battery life?

What about the other graphics issues I mentioned? The high cpu usage etc.

Your 2D clocks are too low for effective hardware acceleration? VLC runs with ~11% CPU usage or less @ 1080p on my own Linux PC.

 

[MrCrispy]

What do you mean by 2D clocks? How do I check that? Nothing is overclocked or anything like that.

Intel HD 4400 is plenty powerful enough for hw acceleration and works just fine in Windows.

 

[BulletDust]

What do you mean by 2D clocks? How do I check that? Nothing is overclocked or anything like that.

Intel HD 4400 is plenty powerful enough for hw acceleration and works just fine in Windows.

Modern graphics adaptors have differing clock speeds for 2D (standard desktop) application and 3D (gaming) application. You need to maintain a certain clock speed for your given resolution and refresh rate, drop the clock speeds too low and flickering is the result. My guess is that due to the addition of tlp your 2D clocks are now too low and are the result of your issues.

As far as I'm aware there isn't any easy way to check clock speeds on inter iGPU's under Linux or Windows, the best advice I can give you is to get tlp as far away from your machine as you possibly can and hopefully the issue improves assuming tlp hasn't made any changes to the driver stack that will remain after it's been uninstalled/disabled.

 

[MrCrispy]

So this is a Linux issue then. Because it works just fine in Windows 10 and there are no hw defects. This is pretty standard hardware. I'm not willing to give up half my battery life to use Linux, which is what I had before tlp.

 

[BulletDust]

So this is a Linux issue then. Because it works just fine in Windows 10 and there are no hw defects. This is pretty standard hardware. I'm not willing to give up half my battery life to use Linux, which is what I had before tlp.

No, everything is pointing to tlp as the issue, it is dropping 2D idle clocks too low in some attempt to save power - Does the screen flicker when the device is plugged in? Have you removed or disabled tlp yet? If not remove or disable tlp.

If all else fails, do a clean install without tlp - Is the issue resolved? I'm assuming it would be as the live session worked just fine in your words.

This has been an issue under Windows in the past, as stated running Nvidia hardware and multiple monitors this was a very real issue for a period of time. However right now you aren't running Windows, you are running Linux and you need to logically work through your problem - Comparisons will achieve nothing.

[EDIT]: Why don't you just run Windows?

 

[MrCrispy]

As I said, I'm pretty sure at this point its due to tlp. Live session runs fine, and I didn't have this issue before I installed tlp I think.

Its still a Linux issue (not the kernel or OS). I know it happens in any OS, in Windows if I didn't have the right video driver power management was weird, sleep was disabled etc. I'm not trying to win some debate, I just need a working latop, and in fact I'm quite eager to use Linux. If I go back to Windows, I'll be using its new Ubuntu subsystem (which I use on my desktop), as I need it for web development.

Do you think its worth it trying another distro, if the issue is tlp? I'm reading the tlp docs now and will try some more things.

 

[BulletDust]

As I said, I'm pretty sure at this point its due to tlp. Live session runs fine, and I didn't have this issue before I installed tlp I think.

Its still a Linux issue (not the kernel or OS). I know it happens in any OS, in Windows if I didn't have the right video driver power management was weird, sleep was disabled etc. I'm not trying to win some debate, I just need a working latop, and in fact I'm quite eager to use Linux. If I go back to Windows, I'll be using its new Ubuntu subsystem (which I use on my desktop), as I need it for web development.

Do you think its worth it trying another distro, if the issue is tlp? I'm reading the tlp docs now and will try some more things.

I totally understand the desire for long battery life. The problem is that under Windows this is an area that's very well optimised, under Linux in many cases battery life isn't as good - That's the harsh reality of the situation. It doesn't really affect me as my laptop is only used for an hour at a time and gets charged at the end of the day, so no harm done.

Certainly I would recommend giving another distro a go, possibly something not so graphically demanding but still based on Ubuntu as I feel the support of Ubuntu derivatives is perfectly suited to newer users - If power management is still an issue than, sadly, Windows may be the only option?

Laptops are one area where Linux holds a disadvantage to Windows. Optimus type setups aren't well implemented, although this is totally resolved by sticking to one GPU only, but then you have the power management issues to contend with. Funny thing is I've used TLP and experienced none of the issues you experienced, the disappointing thing is I didn't really see an improvement in battery life either!

Dropping screen brightness, disabling bluetooth and reducing the number of apps running in the background (Chrome is shocking) will help improve battery life, it's just a matter of experimentation.

 

[Vermillion]

As I said, I'm pretty sure at this point its due to tlp. Live session runs fine, and I didn't have this issue before I installed tlp I think.

Its still a Linux issue (not the kernel or OS). I know it happens in any OS, in Windows if I didn't have the right video driver power management was weird, sleep was disabled etc. I'm not trying to win some debate, I just need a working latop, and in fact I'm quite eager to use Linux. If I go back to Windows, I'll be using its new Ubuntu subsystem (which I use on my desktop), as I need it for web development.

Do you think its worth it trying another distro, if the issue is tlp? I'm reading the tlp docs now and will try some more things.

Honestly I'd try a different distro. What distro are you actually running right now? I didn't see it in the thread but I may have missed it.

As for a user friendly distro I highly recommend Solus. https://solus-project.com/

I love Solus. It was a my daily driver for quite a few months. I'm back on Arch (I just love the ability to customize Arch so easily) on my machines but the wife is on Solus now and she loves it. I had pretty good battery life on the E7470s with Solus. I can't say much about the wife's laptop as she doesn't use it unplugged enough to really gauge the battery.

An Arch based distro like Manjaro or Antergos would probably fair well for you too. My Arch install now has very good battery life and I don't have TLP installed.

 

[Chuklr]

Honestly I'd try a different distro. What distro are you actually running right now? I didn't see it in the thread but I may have missed it.

As for a user friendly distro I highly recommend Solus. https://solus-project.com/

I love Solus. It was a my daily driver for quite a few months. I'm back on Arch (I just love the ability to customize Arch so easily) on my machines but the wife is on Solus now and she loves it. I had pretty good battery life on the E7470s with Solus. I can't say much about the wife's laptop as she doesn't use it unplugged enough to really gauge the battery.

An Arch based distro like Manjaro or Antergos would probably fair well for you too. My Arch install now has very good battery life and I don't have TLP installed.

It's in the OP, he's running KDE neon which is Debian and Ubuntu based.

MrCrispy, I'm running Solus Mate and it doesn't seem to exhibit the problems you are having, but I'm running on an OLD Vostro 3700, 8GB memory, and a 128GB SSD. The movement of minimized windows is not as smooth as on my Windows 7 desktop that is running on a Q9550 2.83GHz running stock, 8GB memory, 128GB SSD, a Radeon HD 5850, on a Samsung LED 32" LED t.v., but I wouldn't expect that.

The Solus Mate has a "Mate Tweak" app and in that you can select one of 4 Window Managers: Marco (Software compositor), Metacity (No compositor), Metacity (Software compositor), and Compiz (Advanced GPU accelerated desktop effects). In the Control Center under "Look and Feel" is the "CompizConfig Settings Manager" app. I have left the Window Manager set to the default Marco so I can't comment on the others. The Compiz Manager may give you the controls you need to adjust the refresh rate, etc., but it's just a guess.

Hope this helps.

EDIT Fixed link to KDE neon.

 

[Vermillion]

It's in the OP, he's running KDE neon which is Debian and Ubuntu based.

MrCrispy, I'm running Solus Mate and it doesn't seem to exhibit the problems you are having, but I'm running on an OLD Vostro 3700, 8GB memory, and a 128GB SSD. The movement of minimized windows is not as smooth as on my Windows 7 desktop that is running on a Q9550 2.83GHz running stock, 8GB memory, 128GB SSD, a Radeon HD 5850, on a Samsung LED 32" LED t.v., but I wouldn't expect that.

The Solus Mate has a "Mate Tweak" app and in that you can select one of 4 Window Managers: Marco (Software compositor), Metacity (No compositor), Metacity (Software compositor), and Compiz (Advanced GPU accelerated desktop effects). In the Control Center under "Look and Feel" is the "CompizConfig Settings Manager" app. I have left the Window Manager set to the default Marco so I can't comment on the others. The Compiz Manager may give you the controls you need to adjust the refresh rate, etc., but it's just a guess.

Hope this helps.

EDIT Fixed link to KDE neon.

Weird. KDE neon isn't even a true distro really. They even say as much. They actually call it a "package archive". It's Ubuntu 16.04 LTS with KDE installed. I'd be willing to bet them mucking with the Ubuntu base is part of the problem and TLP is just making it worse. I bet Kubuntu doesn't show any of these issues. I read the thread on Reddit about Neon vs Kubuntu and what I saw bothers me.

What they've done in KDE Neon is take Ubuntu put KDE on it and made KDE a rolling release style while the rest of the OS is on the regular Ubuntu release time line. That's doesn't bode well in my book.

If KDE is the desired DE, personally I'd be using straight up Kubuntu or Mint KDE over KDE neon.

 

[MrCrispy]

I'm pretty sure the issues are related to power management and specifically what tlp did. I have no idea why Neon doesn't want to call itself a distro, seems like a silly semantic thing when it fact it is for all purposes. There are other threads I've seen with Intel integrated graphics being the common cause, so I'll just keep experimenting. The GUI is also not as smooth and it looks like its not hw accelerated.

 

[Vermillion]

Did you mean Inspiron 7547? I can't find a reference to 7457. Intel 4400 graphics i assume if it is 7547?

Sadly I was unable to duplicate this on an E5470 (Intel 520 graphics). Of course that simply could be that the graphics chip is different. I used the default non-proprietary driver with KDE Neon and Kubuntu. Which driver were you using?

On a side note KDE Plasma is really nice looking now. Too bad it just isn't my cup of tea. It's so smooth and so nice with Kwin. Both Neon and Kubuntu are just nice to use.

I understand now why Neon calls itself a "package archive" and not a distro. Everything is identical to Kubuntu other than KDE and that's easily visible by running an apt-get update command. Instead of using Canonicals servers for the KDE software Neon has their own to support the rolling release style for Neon. That's the only change I can see. You could technically add the Neon servers to any Ubuntu install and install that version of KDE.

 

[NoOther]

I'm pretty sure the issues are related to power management and specifically what tlp did. I have no idea why Neon doesn't want to call itself a distro, seems like a silly semantic thing when it fact it is for all purposes. There are other threads I've seen with Intel integrated graphics being the common cause, so I'll just keep experimenting. The GUI is also not as smooth and it looks like its not hw accelerated.

MrCrispy, if your issues are power settings and management, and your main goal is to get a system that utilizes better power management and better graphic support, I would recommend going Debian stretch and using the latest Linux kernels. There were many changes starting in Linux 4.10 to power management and each release since has brought more improvements. By switching to Debian stretch, you will have more support for the very latest Linux kernels. There may be some instabilities, but stretch has been out for a little while now and many kinks have been fixed. Gnome typically has the best integration of power saving modules, but KDE Plasma should work well too.

I believe if you stay with the distro you currently have and do not try to embrace a more flexible distro, you are going to continue to have these problems.

 

[MrCrispy]

Did you mean Inspiron 7547? I can't find a reference to 7457. Intel 4400 graphics i assume if it is 7547?

Sadly I was unable to duplicate this on an E5470 (Intel 520 graphics). Of course that simply could be that the graphics chip is different. I used the default non-proprietary driver with KDE Neon and Kubuntu. Which driver were you using?

On a side note KDE Plasma is really nice looking now. Too bad it just isn't my cup of tea. It's so smooth and so nice with Kwin. Both Neon and Kubuntu are just nice to use.

I understand now why Neon calls itself a "package archive" and not a distro. Everything is identical to Kubuntu other than KDE and that's easily visible by running an apt-get update command. Instead of using Canonicals servers for the KDE software Neon has their own to support the rolling release style for Neon. That's the only change I can see. You could technically add the Neon servers to any Ubuntu install and install that version of KDE.

Yes its a 7547 with Intel 4400. How do I find the type of driver being used (proprietary or not) and how do I update it? Its just a default install with all updates so I'm guessing its also using the non proprietary one.

MrCrispy, if your issues are power settings and management, and your main goal is to get a system that utilizes better power management and better graphic support, I would recommend going Debian stretch and using the latest Linux kernels. There were many changes starting in Linux 4.10 to power management and each release since has brought more improvements. By switching to Debian stretch, you will have more support for the very latest Linux kernels. There may be some instabilities, but stretch has been out for a little while now and many kinks have been fixed. Gnome typically has the best integration of power saving modules, but KDE Plasma should work well too.

I believe if you stay with the distro you currently have and do not try to embrace a more flexible distro, you are going to continue to have these problems.

I have not looked into Debian Stretch at all. So its the branch which will become Debian 9 and is currently frozen. I have kernel 4.10 right now, so will that gain me anything? I do like all the added utils you get in the Debian based distros such as Ubuntu, Neon, Mint etc.

 

[NoOther]

Yes its a 7547 with Intel 4400. How do I find the type of driver being used (proprietary or not) and how do I update it? Its just a default install with all updates so I'm guessing its also using the non proprietary one.



I have not looked into Debian Stretch at all. So its the branch which will become Debian 9 and is currently frozen. I have kernel 4.10 right now, so will that gain me anything? I do like all the added utils you get in the Debian based distros such as Ubuntu, Neon, Mint etc.

Debian stretch is Debian 9, stretch is the name for their (unstable) version, they do not have a stable version yet (at least the last time I checked), but supposedly it is coming soon. You should be able to install up to Linux 4.12 (latest kernel) on Debian stretch. I don't have access atm in my office to test it though. 14.10 is the first major overhaul of the power management features for intel chips in Linux. 14.11 and 14.12 add additional support for power management. But remember, just because a Linux kernel adds the support, that does not necessarily mean your Display Manager is going to support it. Typically Gnome and KDE are pretty quick to support the features. That is why I would install all of it separately, make sure you have the latest updates of each component (kernel, distro, intel graphic driver, display manager). At work we have had numerous issues with display drivers and Linux, so we install the kernel and distro headless, then download the latest graphic driver, remove all old graphics drivers, install the newest graphics driver, then install the display manager. That usually works well for us.

 

[Vermillion]

Yes its a 7547 with Intel 4400. How do I find the type of driver being used (proprietary or not) and how do I update it? Its just a default install with all updates so I'm guessing its also using the non proprietary one.

When you installed there was an option for "3rd party software". This would have included stuff like Flash player and proprietary drivers. If you checked that you're probably not on the open source driver.

 

[MrCrispy]

lswh -c video still shows i915, and I installed the 'Additional Drivers' app from Ubuntu, which doesn't list any proprietary drivers.

I am about to take another leap of faith Just downloaded Fedora Live usb. I know its not Debian but I read goof things about it, there's nothing on the laptop yet to lose. I read its using Wayland by default and not X, so it may work, may not. Seems to be newer at the very least. And I want to try gnome.