Need input on parts for WC setup

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EndersShadow

[H]ard|Gawd
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Dec 27, 2008
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After reading tons of threads here for months I am finally wanting to take the plunge into Water cooling. However I have seen many different parts and am needing recommendations/opinions on them. Also want to make sure the parts wont cause issues with each other.

I am trying if possible for a high flow system using 1/2id (if possible). I am looking to cool a overclocked 9650, 4870x2 and possibly another 4870x2 which might be acquired at a later date and which might require more radiator. Below is a parts list. Any thoughts/suggestions/personal experiences would be appreciated.

Radiator:
Black Ice Xtreme III 120.3 or Black Ice Pro III 120.3. In addition wondering if I should add another 120 rad to the rear exhaust of the case. All will be paired with Scythe Ultra Kaze fans and controlled by a Zalman Fan Controller

GPU Waterblock:
XSPC Razor 4870x2 or EK Waterblock

CPU Waterblock:
Swiftech Apogee™ GTZ or D-TEK FuZion v2

Res/Pump:
This is where I need the most help. If I use the 120.3 rad I do not have room at the bottom of my case (where i plan to mount the rad) to add a pump. I would have 2 bays free in the 5 1/2 slots (providing I go with a 1 slot res) but I do not think that is enough room for most dedicated pumps (possible exception listed below). I plan on putting petras gel underneath any pump I would get and free floating it (unless otherwise advised) Here are some of the parts I am looking at:

Swiftech MCP355 (don't know how much of a restriction/PITA it would be as its threaded for 3/8) plus XSPC 5.25" Bay Reservoir

Misc parts:

Koolance Quick Disconnects, PrimoChill Tubing or Masterkleer Tubing
 
I would remove the Danger Den MC-TDX from your waterblock list as it is not in the same league as your other two picks.

Do not waste your money on the XSPC Dual Bay Res Pump. The Pump is pretty weak and I have seen several complaints about them failing prematurely. In most cases, they are probably overloaded. If you want to go with a res/pump combo, check out a small res top for a DDC pump. Something like the one from Watercool which even has built-in mounting for a 3 1/2" bay would be perfect.
 
Danger Den MC-TDX removed from list as well as pump/res combo. What issues if any do you think I would have with the pump I have listed? My thought is to mount it on the petra's gel at the very bottom of my 5 1/2 bay drive and then use the XSPC res at the top of my case (reason being its got a removable section that I would be able to use to refill the res very easy (main reason I purchased the case)
 
img1526wt6.jpg


GTZ with adapter working well on my trusty nautilus500 :)

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8...ocket_LGA1366_Apogee-GTZ-Ci7.html?id=5ALMiHYp ...and they are out.

Crazy PC got mine out to me in the fastest I've ever seen anything shipped...including NE. Very pleased with the block.
 
EndersShadow said:
Danger Den MC-TDX removed from list as well as pump/res combo. What issues if any do you think I would have with the pump I have listed? My thought is to mount it on the petra's gel at the very bottom of my 5 1/2 bay drive and then use the XSPC res at the top of my case (reason being its got a removable section that I would be able to use to refill the res very easy (main reason I purchased the case)
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The MCP355 would be an excellent choice. Just get an aftermarket top for it (the XSPC top is another excellent choice) and you will get even better performance plus the ability to use the fittings of your choice.
 
anr11 said:
The MCP355 would be an excellent choice. Just get an aftermarket top for it (the XSPC top is another excellent choice) and you will get even better performance plus the ability to use the fittings of your choice.
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Do you see any issues with either of the GPU or CPU blocks due to the fact they are threaded for G1/4 and I am going to be using 1/2 tubing?

I am starting to lean more toward the EK Waterblock for the GPU as it would make it easier to shoot the tubing from it to the res (as the outlet is at the bottom of the card rather than the top)

I greatly appreciate the input and suggestions.
 
EndersShadow said:
Do you see any issues with either of the GPU or CPU blocks due to the fact they are threaded for G1/4 and I am going to be using 1/2 tubing?

I am starting to lean more toward the EK Waterblock for the GPU as it would make it easier to shoot the tubing from it to the res (as the outlet is at the bottom of the card rather than the top)

I greatly appreciate the input and suggestions.
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No it should fit like a glove on the barbs, get these from PTS http://www.petrastechshop.com/swhifig1th1o.html
its G 1/4" fitting that goes into the block and its OD is 1/2" so your 1/2" tubing should fit fine. Just use some tight worm clamps.
 
Removed the Switftech 655 pump from the list. Its just too friggin' big a hos for this job and I wouldn't have near the space I need for it (without significant case modification)

After doing some more reading, I might be going with 7/16 OD as I have read it really makes a nice watertight seal and I wouldn't have to use worm claps, zip ties or anything else...Anyone have any opinions on that?

I have also read a couple places you always want the res placed before pump to ensure it is never lacking for water. Is this a normal practice or something I can ignore. If I had to I could mount a small res right next to the pump and have it feed from there to the pump but don't want to buy more parts if I don't need to.
 
As far as the mounting position of the res goes, you can mount it anywhere you want but it should feed directly into the pump, meaning your loop order should always be res => pump, then the rest of your components. Mounting it at the top of the loop will also make bleeding somewhat easier but it is not critical.

My opinion on fittings is, go with compression fittings. They look fantastic and insure that the tubing is secure while making it very easy to remove later when the time comes to redo the loop because of an upgrade or whatever.
 
anr11 said:
As far as the mounting position of the res goes, you can mount it anywhere you want but it should feed directly into the pump, meaning your loop order should always be res => pump, then the rest of your components. Mounting it at the top of the loop will also make bleeding somewhat easier but it is not critical.

My opinion on fittings is, go with compression fittings. They look fantastic and insure that the tubing is secure while making it very easy to remove later when the time comes to redo the loop because of an upgrade or whatever.
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Would quick disconnects be considered compression fittings or are they something different?
 
Compression fittings are expensive which is why some people perfer a herbie clip on 1/2" barbs on 7/16" ID Masterkleer tubing.
 
A quick disconnect allows you to open a hose section without it leaking. You make about a half twist and the two halves of the fitting come apart and immediately seal. These are not intended to be used as fittings for every block. They are generally used to aid in draining or to allow for the quick exhange of components like video cards that are upgraded more often than other components.

A compression fitting is intended to be used with the water blocks for various components. Your options are either barbs with some sort of holding mechanism (hose clamps, zip ties, etc.) or compression fittings.
 
In that case would it be a good idea to use quick disconnects for the CPU, GPU and then use compression fittings for the rest of the connections?

Also confused on what fans to get after reading this. Are some radiators better cooled by specific rpm fans?
 
Whether or not it would be a good idea is up to you to decide. I personally would only recommend putting 1 quick disconnect somewhere in the loop in one of the tubing runs to help with draining. If you changed out your video card(s) once a month, it would probably be worth it to have it on quick disconnects but once every year or two wouldn't justify it for me.

As far as rad fans go, yes you should choose fans based on your specific choice of rad. The black ice rads typically have higher fin density and need stronger, high-rpm fans to get good performance out of them.
 
As far as rad fans go, yes you should choose fans based on your specific choice of rad. The black ice rads typically have higher fin density and need stronger, high-rpm fans to get good performance out of them.
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With that said are the fans I have selected (Scythe Ultra Kaze) good enough for the radiator? Also is there going to be any problem hooking them all up to the fan controller, i.e. will they try to draw more power than it can give them? I am not going to be hooking multiple fans up to each dial but rather each fan to its own dial so I would hope 7w per channel would be enough, but not sure.
 
Yes, those fans should be just about ideal for black ice radiators, though they will be quite loud at full power which is what you will need for optimal performance from the rad. The benefit of other high quality radiators with less fin density (i.e. Feser, Thermochill) is that you can get the same cooling performance with lower airflow, quieter fans.

The current draw according the Frozen CPU product description is .6 Amps, so they would draw 7.2 Watts of power per fan. According to the fan controller description, it can handle 7 Watts per channel max. so you will be right at the limit with one fan per channel but it should be ok.
 
I have a total of around 3.5 inches to the bottom of the mobo. If I move the rad closer to the case window I can still clear that with extra space however I dont want to use more than 4 inches at the bottom for both case and radiator. That will allow me to add in another 4870x2 (should the need arise).

though they will be quite loud at full power which is what you will need for optimal performance from the rad. The benefit of other high quality radiators with less fin density (i.e. Feser, Thermochill) is that you can get the same cooling performance with lower airflow, quieter fans.
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So would you recomend that I go with Feser or Thermochill? My overall concern with those radiators was that they would sit to high in the bottom of my case but I was factoring in having 38mm fans and not 25mm fans.
 
If noise is of concern, then yes I would recommend a Feser or Thermochill. The Feser rads have a nicer, more durable finish and are gernerally delivered much cleaner (meaning internally so they require less flushing before installation) than the Thermochills. With either of these rads you could use 25mm fans such as the Scythe S-flex fans.
 
What about these fans? I keep hearing good things about them. It looks like the power draw would be about 4.2 watts per channel and even though the dba is 40 I should be able to use the fan controller to turn them down and in doing so decrease the dba correct? The reason I am still wanting high powered fans can be found in a post by Bill Parrish here
 
The Yate-Loon's have an ecxellent reputation among enthusiasts and would certainly also be a good choice. Nothing wrong with them.
 
How hard is it to paint fans? I just saw these and they have a much higher rpm limit but are not as deep as the Ultra Kaze. The only problem is that they are white and do not seem to come in black :(.
 
EndersShadow said:
How hard is it to paint fans? I just saw these and they have a much higher rpm limit but are not as deep as the Ultra Kaze. The only problem is that they are white and do not seem to come in black :(.
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I would not paint fans - you might try vinyl dye but if you screw up the coating even a little it will throw the balance off and the fan will either make more noise, throw itself off balance enough to run the blades into one of the wires, or the motor might just short from the added weight.
 
Nomad said:
I would not paint fans - you might try vinyl dye but if you screw up the coating even a little it will throw the balance off and the fan will either make more noise, throw itself off balance enough to run the blades into one of the wires, or the motor might just short from the added weight.
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Oh well, you cant have everything you want :). Guess I will be going with the Late Yoons which honestly should be fine.

After reading this thread I think I would be fine with a Feser 120.3 and a additional 120, but what do you guys think? Currently I only have one 4870x2 but hope to upgrade in the near future and would prefer to not have to add more (besides an additional gpu block) to the setup.

Also an opinions on push v. pull? I cannot do both and am leaning more toward the pull but as I don't know nearly as much as many of you am totally open to suggestions.
 
I have used push configurations in the past - something about the static pressure - but I forget now.
 
I have a link to an article at home (at work right now) that goes into some depth about push v. pull. According to it (will post link when I get home) I think it mentioned that at around 1500 rpm the difference is nill, but honestly I forget. I know it was in a post from someone on these forums but I can't find it right now.

Still thinking pull as the radiator will be at teh bottom of the case and I would think it would be easier to mount one radiator at the bottom v. three 120mm fans (either way I dremel)
 
So I think I have my parts list pretty well complete. If you see anything I need to fix, have additional part suggestions, or just want to comment, please do so. To start with I may just start with the CPU as after calculating the purchase cost of all this its expensive (as are all things awesome :D). Additionally there is the fact I will void the warranty on the recently (Sept 08) purchased Graphics card if I take the stock cooler off as well as risk messing up a 500$ card.

Radiators:
Feser X-Changer Triple 120mm Xtreme & Feser X-Changer 120 Xtreme

Fans:
5 Yate Loon D12SH-12

Fan controller:
Zalman

GPU Waterblock:
EK Waterblock

CPU Waterblock:
Swiftech Apogee™ GTZ

Res &Pump:
Swiftech MCP355 & XSPC Bay Reservoir

Misc parts:
12 1/2 Compression Fittings, 15 ft PrimoChill Tubing
Petras gel

The loop (providing I do watercool the GPU) would go XPSC res->MCP355->CPU->120 rad->4870X2->360 rad
 
n00zler said:
If you get an EVGA card you don't void the warranty by changing the cooler (even to a water block!). Just have to keep the original cooler to reattach if you send it in for an RMA. :)

EDIT: http://www.evga.com/support/faq/afmmain.aspx?faqid=57720 - link so you know I'm tellin the truth :)
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Only problem is that EVGA does not currently make a 4870x2 and even if they did I already purchased mine and cant afford to buy another :( (yet).

Sidebar anyone know how much a kidney would go for on ebay? lol... gotta get some funding somehow...Just Kidding
 
Looks like a good selection of parts.

A few comments ...

Some people have had issues with setting their pumps on the Petra's gel ... it does help with vibration, but just keep an eye on your pump to make sure it doesn't get too hot.

For pump mounting, you can also check out the brackets by (UN) Design - available at Petra's as well. These would add some extra cost, but will allow you some flexibility in mounting the pump.

I'd suggest starting with just the CPU loop as this is your first build. Make it easy on yourself. I don't think you really need the extra 120 rad, particularly if you are only doing the CPU. You can always add it later if you decide to cool your GPU and feel that the one rad is not handling it.

Hopefully you gave up on using quick disconnects for many of your fittings. As was already mentioned, these would not be a good idea throughout your loop because you want to minimize the chance of leaks.

Do take the time to think about how you are going to drain your loop before you set it up. You'll be happy in the long run, especially if you want to add components down the road.

Do some research on how to set up the compression fittings with the GTZ. The inlet and outlet are recessed on the GTZ, and you'll need to swap the O-ring on the Bitspower fitting with a thicker one (like the one that comes on the barbs with the GTZ), or add an extra O-ring.

3/8" ID x 5/8" OD or 7/16" ID x 5/8" OD is easier tubing to work with than 1/2" x 3/4" tubing (in my opinion ... this depends on your case size and your tube routing). You may also find the 5/8" OD compression fittings easier to work with (as in slightly smaller in case you've got any tight fit areas).

You didn't mention which coolant you are planning to use - I'd recommend distilled water and something like PT-Nuke (regular or PHN version) from Petra's as a biocide.

And, most importantly, don't skip the leak testing. Test outside the case before you hook everything up ... especially your GTZ CPU block. Then, when you put everything in your case ... leak test some more (jumping your PSU so you can power the pump only).

Sorry ... didn't mean to write a book :)
 
EndersShadow said:
Only problem is that EVGA does not currently make a 4870x2 and even if they did I already purchased mine and cant afford to buy another :( (yet).

Sidebar anyone know how much a kidney would go for on ebay? lol... gotta get some funding somehow...Just Kidding
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Haha....Yea, I really DO pay attention sometimes ;)
 
shazza said:
Looks like a good selection of parts.

For pump mounting, you can also check out the brackets by (UN) Design - available at Petra's as well. These would add some extra cost, but will allow you some flexibility in mounting the pump.
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Def worth looking into...Thanks

Do take the time to think about how you are going to drain your loop before you set it up. You'll be happy in the long run, especially if you want to add components down the road.
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I have a case which is presetup for a Thermaltake WC setup (which I am not using). As such their is a section of the top I can take off to allow access to the res. I assume that when I need to drain the sucker I just flip if upside down and drain it....am I missing something?

Do some research on how to set up the compression fittings with the GTZ. The inlet and outlet are recessed on the GTZ, and you'll need to swap the O-ring on the Bitspower fitting with a thicker one (like the one that comes on the barbs with the GTZ), or add an extra O-ring.
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Now THAT is good information to know lol..otherwise I might be slightly screwed when isntalling everything.

3/8" ID x 5/8" OD or 7/16" ID x 5/8" OD is easier tubing to work with than 1/2" x 3/4" tubing (in my opinion ... this depends on your case size and your tube routing). You may also find the 5/8" OD compression fittings easier to work with (as in slightly smaller in case you've got any tight fit areas)
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How much of a difference in heat dissapation will I notice if I switch tubing? i.e. will it not be able to dissapate the heat as quick as the other tubing?

You didn't mention which coolant you are planning to use - I'd recommend distilled water and something like PT-Nuke (regular or PHN version) from Petra's as a biocide.
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That is the plan, unless someone tells me otherwise. Water is cheap and cheap is good :D.

Also this may be on hold as I might be changing my case to a Coolermaster ATCS 840 ...that bad boy just looks sexy...and it could hold a 360 rad in the top :eek:...also there is another build here that looks quite similar to what I could do :p​
 
The 840 is a nice case for water cooling.

The tubing size will have a very small effect on the ability to dissipate heat (I believe testing has shown less than a half a degree difference in most situations) ... as that's what the radiator does ... as long as you've got adequate flow through the system which you can accomplish with the different sized tubing. It's really a matter of personal choice ... what looks best to you and what works best in your loop.

As for draining the system ... are you talking about turning just your reservoir upside down, or turning your whole case upside down? If your reservoir is at the top of your case (a good thing, generally - but not absolutely required), turning it upside down is going to empty out the reservoir - but not the water in the tubing or the blocks. You'll spill less when you unhook your tubing, but it can still be messy. I did something similar with my first build ... I managed to drain the system using lots of paper towels, but in subsequent builds I've put a drain line near the bottom of the case/loop.

But, you may be rethinking your loop if you switch cases anyway ... so just give it some thought.
 
shazza said:
The 840 is a nice case for water cooling.

The tubing size will have a very small effect on the ability to dissipate heat (I believe testing has shown less than a half a degree difference in most situations) ... as that's what the radiator does ... as long as you've got adequate flow through the system which you can accomplish with the different sized tubing. It's really a matter of personal choice ... what looks best to you and what works best in your loop.

As for draining the system ... are you talking about turning just your reservoir upside down, or turning your whole case upside down? If your reservoir is at the top of your case (a good thing, generally - but not absolutely required), turning it upside down is going to empty out the reservoir - but not the water in the tubing or the blocks. You'll spill less when you unhook your tubing, but it can still be messy. I did something similar with my first build ... I managed to drain the system using lots of paper towels, but in subsequent builds I've put a drain line near the bottom of the case/loop.

But, you may be rethinking your loop if you switch cases anyway ... so just give it some thought.
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Do you have pics of the drain you setup?

Regardless of which case I go with I can still just drain everything from the radiator (right?). In my current case after draining the res shouldnt I be able to just pull the plug on the radiator and have everything drain from there? If so either case works., My current case would have it mounted at the bottom away from any electrical stuff that might get wet, and the other case I could simply flip it upside down, pull the rad drain and have it drain like that. Correct?
 
Here's my drain setup for the GPU loop ... used one of the Bitspower Q-T fittings off of the radiator inlet. I just unscrew the stop plug and it drains ... it would be better to have the stop plug at the bottom of the fitting, but this works quite well, especially since I can lift the reservoir/pump a bit if needed:

442863211_DAcyu-M.jpg




This shows the drain on the CPU loop ... a bit hard to see, but there is a stop plug on the bottom of the fitting at the pump outlet (bottom of the short piece of red tubing) ... drains very nicely. (Note ... my use of two 90 degree fittings in this loop is a bit controversial, but I've set it up without the 90 degree fittings and no difference in temps - but I've got only the CPU on a PA 120.3 rad.)

442906273_qR2Pe-M.jpg



Don't have a good pic of the drain for the 3rd loop ... but it is a conventional T-line between the pump and radiator, with about 6 inches of tubing to facilitate draining outside the case.

Re your question on draining from the radiator ... assume you can do this if you can open the bleed screw, and if it's at the bottom. Imagine it might be quite slow. And, you can always drain by removing a tube connection at the bottom of the loop - but you'll get quick flow, so you want to make sure you have something to capture the water protected with a towel. Messy, but it can work.
 
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