Need Help with Cooling

[Berix]

Hello. Summer just started yesterday and the weather's getting hotter, so I want to improve the cooling in my PC and hopefully get rid of the LOUD fan noise when the computer is on load. Here are my temps at load (defined as 1hr. of Counter Strike: Source):

CPU: 49'C
Mobo: 48'C - sensor is located near the chipset
GPU Core: 70'C - I don't know for sure but it's around here
GPU Ambient: 53'C
HD: 42'C

As to my cooling setup I have:
-1 Antec TriCool 120mm fan set on "low" in the rear of the case
-Stock AMD64 HS/F
-Stock eVGA GeForce 6600GT VGA HS/F
-Dual (I think 80mm fans) on the PSU

As to expansion possibilities I have:
-A 80mm fan port over the CPU - EMPTY
-Slot for a 120mm at the front of the case - EMPTY

I'd like to replace my CPU HS/F with an Arctic Freezer 64 Pro, but I've read conflicting reviews as to the level of noise it generates and how much it improves temps, so how much of a difference would it make in my case setup? Also, I'm concerned the ambient temperature inside my case may be too high. Often, when the computer is under load, the rear fan will blow out warm/hot air. My current setup has a funnel that brings outside air to the HS/F but with a Freezer 64 (a tower design) could the cooling actually be worse if the ambient temp in my case is too high?

And will the Freezer 64 block the first two RAM slots? Would moving the RAM to the 3rd and 4th slots lead to any decrease in performance since the RAM would be farther away from the CPU (and the memory controller)?

So what are some recommendations to improve cooling? New heatsink? Freezer 64? Another fan?

Here's a pic and a diagram of my system:

Thanks for any help.

 

[WhyYouLoveMe]

First things first: Get a 120mm in that front slot! That'll lower all your temps across the board.

If you're mainly concerned with quiet cooling instead of overclockable cooling then maybe grab a quality heat sink and drop a nice, quiet 120mm fan on it. i.e.: Scythe Mine or Ninja, SI-120, Noctua

Quiet HSFs include: Zalman 7700Cu/AlCu on low 5v setting (or pretty much anything connected to a 5v plug adapter), Zalman CNPS9500, Thermaltake Big Typhoon, Aerocool Dominator (this one might block your close RAM slots)

FYI: The AC Freezer Pro 64 will probably give you the best cooling per dollar but isn't the quietest. Hook it up to a low voltage connector and it'll quiet that puppy down.

I don't think any of those coolers will prevent you from using the closest 2 RAM slots. Even if they do, switching them to slots 3 and 4 isn't going to hurt performance at all.

If your vid card cooler is loud might I suggest: NV silencer, Zalman VF900, Thermalright V1 Ultra

Research, research, research! Hopefully this will get you started. Look at the stickies at the top of the Cooling forum, too. THOSE have massive info to gather in.

 

[dtess17]

turn your tri cool to med. It's not all that much louder but will aid in cooling.
Add a 120mm fan in the front, maybe just get another tri cool. on med also.
if you can get rid of your stock gpu cooler. zalman vf700 can be had for maybe 25 on the forums.
For your CPU, look into something like a 9500 or a ninja both are quiet and will really drop the temps.
oh and if you tidy up the cables airflow will be better

 

[cornelious0_0]

An Arctic Cooling Silencer will not only do wonders for your GPU temps, but will also exhaust all heat from the gpu out of the case, which in itself should drop your case temps. Aside from that, a 120mm fan in that front slot and a Tt Big Typhoon on the CPU should be in your immediate plans. The VF700 for the vid card would be nice, but the silencer will drop case/cpu temps in many cases, and is noticeably quieter. There are always ways to quiet down other coolers (replacing fans, using fan controllers etc...) but out of the box I can recommend the Typhoon...very quiet out of the box, and lets you throw on a slower spinning 120mm fan if necessary.

 

[dtess17]

An Arctic Cooling Silencer will not only do wonders for your GPU temps, but will also exhaust all heat from the gpu out of the case, which in itself should drop your case temps. Aside from that, a 120mm fan in that front slot and a Tt Big Typhoon on the CPU should be in your immediate plans. The VF700 for the vid card would be nice, but the silencer will drop case/cpu temps in many cases, and is noticeably quieter. There are always ways to quiet down other coolers (replacing fans, using fan controllers etc...) but out of the box I can recommend the Typhoon...very quiet out of the box, and lets you throw on a slower spinning 120mm fan if necessary.

ah good point i didn't think of the silencer...OP you should get that over the zalman. although both are good units.

BT is nice...but it can't top the ninja in performace or sound

 

[cornelious0_0]

ah good point i didn't think of the silencer...OP you should get that over the zalman. although both are good units.

BT is nice...but it can't top the ninja in performace or sound

Fair enough, I haven't personally been around a Ninja...so I'll have to leave that one open. For the card though I wouldn't go with anything BUT the Silencer...the card doesn't run hot enough that you'd NEED anything much stronger then the Silencer...it's it is dead silent and will lower your case temps.

 

[dtess17]

what i like about the ninja is that it can be run passive. Add a fan and your into some damn fine cooling. also it doesn't require a ton of cfm to operate well.

 

[cornelious0_0]

what i like about the ninja is that it can be run passive. Add a fan and your into some damn fine cooling. also it doesn't require a ton of cfm to operate well.

Agreed...and I'm actually looking at it quite seriously if I go for a completely silent air cooled rig as opposed to h2O for my next setup.

 

[Berix]

I'll definatly get a 120mm fan in the front slot then. I hope it doesn't add any extra noise. I'll probably get this Yate Loon, I hear it's a good fan and the price is very attractive.

As for the CPU cooler, I'm not looking for absolute silence, just quieter than my stock AMD hs/f. Usually it spins at 3,500RPM on idle which I don't mind at all, but when the computer is put on load it usually spins at about 5,000RPM and some sometimes even 5,500RPM which is very, very loud. I'm trying not to spend more money than I need to BTW, but I'm going to be trying to overclock sometime in the future.

 

[PsycoGeek]

Clean up the wiriring as well. A clean airflow path is essential for cooling.

 

[dtess17]

I'll definatly get a 120mm fan in the front slot then. I hope it doesn't add any extra noise. I'll probably get this Yate Loon, I hear it's a good fan and the price is very attractive.

As for the CPU cooler, I'm not looking for absolute silence, just quieter than my stock AMD hs/f. Usually it spins at 3,500RPM on idle which I don't mind at all, but when the computer is put on load it usually spins at about 5,000RPM and some sometimes even 5,500RPM which is very, very loud. I'm trying not to spend more money than I need to BTW, but I'm going to be trying to overclock sometime in the future.

even on a budget a good air cooler is very important.
the ninja is only like 35 with a fan...if you have plans of OCing ...i'd say it would be a good buy

 

[dtess17]

Agreed...and I'm actually looking at it quite seriously if I go for a completely silent air cooled rig as opposed to h2O for my next setup.

i am very happy with mine, although i am going to watercool my rig. I feel as though the extra cooling will help alot when i try to push this chip to 3.0

 

[cornelious0_0]

even on a budget a good air cooler is very important.
the ninja is only like 35 with a fan...if you have plans of OCing ...i'd say it would be a good buy

No kidding, I'd go as far as to put a silent/quiet aftermarket HSF on the most budget of system builds. Even if it's not gonna be the fastest system in the world...doesn't mean it has to SOUND budget.

 

[dtess17]

No kidding, I'd go as far as to put a silent/quiet aftermarket HSF on the most budget of system builds. Even if it's not gonna be the fastest system in the world...doesn't mean it has to SOUND budget.

not to mention better cooling will help in any overclock, or just to extend the life of your parts.
always worth it to spend a few extra up front than have a stock heatsink shit the bed and kill your proc or whole system. The reduction is sound is a welcome bonus though.

 

[cornelious0_0]

not to mention better cooling will help in any overclock, or just to extend the life of your parts.
always worth it to spend a few extra up front than have a stock heatsink shit the bed and kill your proc or whole system. The reduction is sound is a welcome bonus though.

Fair enough, not that there's a ridiculously high chance of a stock hsf "$hitting the bed"...but it does happen. Technically any HSF has the same chance of failing...as long as they're using the same type of fan it doesn't really matter who makes it.

It's not like a CPU running in the 40-60 degree range it's whole life is going to shorten it's lifespan...as long as a CPU is running within it's operating temperature set out by the manufacturer there shouldn't be anything to worry about, but there's nothing wrong with a little more insurance.

 

[Berix]

Clean up the wiriring as well. A clean airflow path is essential for cooling.

Yeah, I've been wanting to clean that up; maybe you guys can give me a few tips on how to to that. As for that huge bundle of wires comming from the PSU, I have no idea what to do with that, so I just zip-tied it together (zip-tie is red if you can see it, kinda blends in) into a very rough pony-tail as you can see and threw it into a 5.25" bay, but it keeps falling out since there's nothing to keep it in that bay. Any ideas on what to do with that bundle? Hmm... Perhaps I could zip-tie it into the bay or something. As for the other wires, I tried to zip-tie them to the bar running across the case below the PSU (the zip-tie is the green thing) to keep those wires out of the way. The IDE and floppy cables are a bit uncooperative, they REFUSE to bend and let me get them outta the front fan port's airflow and I'm not sure it's ok or not to use force with those cables -- they're very hard and I wouldn't want to "crack" anything.

So any suggestions on how to clean up the wires?

even on a budget a good air cooler is very important.
the ninja is only like 35 with a fan...if you have plans of OCing ...i'd say it would be a good buy

Yeah, I really like the Ninja, it sounds like it's definatley something I'd like to get. I'm considering the Ninja and the Freezer 64 right now. The Ninja seems to be a great performer but the Freezer's cheaper and I hear it's a great "bang for the buck."

Ninja Plus from Jab-tech: $35 Ninja + $5 AS Ceramique + $7 shipping = $47
Freezer 64 from Newegg: $23 Freezer + $2 tax + $0 shipping = $25

I would greatly prefer the Ninja though but I'll decide which one later. How much noise does the Freezer make compared to the stock AMD HS/F and Ninja and how much cooler in terms of temperature is it compared to the stock cooler and Ninja? I would be more inclined to go for the Ninja but I seem to have problems OC'ing now, see my topic here. I decided to either wait for some cooler weather or a new HS/F before I try to do anything else related to my OC. The fan gets so loud it always sounds like it's going to break or something. But still, I can't seem to break 210FSB so I'm not sure the Ninja would even be worth the extra money for me.

Oh, and does the weight of the Ninja have any effect on the mobo? It seems like putting that thing on would be the same as strapping a textbook to my CPU.

And before I submit this message I'd like to thank you guys for the responses received so far. I really appreciate it.

 

[dtess17]

Yeah, I've been wanting to clean that up; maybe you guys can give me a few tips on how to to that. As for that huge bundle of wires comming from the PSU, I have no idea what to do with that, so I just zip-tied it together (zip-tie is red if you can see it, kinda blends in) into a very rough pony-tail as you can see and threw it into a 5.25" bay, but it keeps falling out since there's nothing to keep it in that bay. Any ideas on what to do with that bundle? Hmm... Perhaps I could zip-tie it into the bay or something. As for the other wires, I tried to zip-tie them to the bar running across the case below the PSU (the zip-tie is the green thing) to keep those wires out of the way. The IDE and floppy cables are a bit uncooperative, they REFUSE to bend and let me get them outta the front fan port's airflow and I'm not sure it's ok or not to use force with those cables -- they're very hard and I wouldn't want to "crack" anything.

So any suggestions on how to clean up the wires?



Yeah, I really like the Ninja, it sounds like it's definatley something I'd like to get. I'm considering the Ninja and the Freezer 64 right now. The Ninja seems to be a great performer but the Freezer's cheaper and I hear it's a great "bang for the buck."

Ninja Plus from Jab-tech: $35 Ninja + $5 AS Ceramique + $7 shipping = $47
Freezer 64 from Newegg: $23 Freezer + $2 tax + $0 shipping = $25

I would greatly prefer the Ninja though but I'll decide which one later. How much noise does the Freezer make compared to the stock AMD HS/F and Ninja and how much cooler in terms of temperature is it compared to the stock cooler and Ninja? I would be more inclined to go for the Ninja but I seem to have problems OC'ing now, see my topic here. I decided to either wait for some cooler weather or a new HS/F before I try to do anything else related to my OC. The fan gets so loud it always sounds like it's going to break or something. But still, I can't seem to break 210FSB so I'm not sure the Ninja would even be worth the extra money for me.

Oh, and does the weight of the Ninja have any effect on the mobo? It seems like putting that thing on would be the same as strapping a textbook to my CPU.

And before I submit this message I'd like to thank you guys for the responses received so far. I really appreciate it.

the freezer is a pretty good heatsink but it is still a bit noisy for my taste. No doubt a good value though. As for the ninja i can keep my opty running at 2.8 at 1.45 volts under 50C i'd love to see a stock heatsink even touch that. The ninja is regarded as one of the best heatsinks out there today. Yes it is big, but it's weight isn't all to bad. it's well below many other tower heatsinks.

as far as your wires, i'd say you might want to start over. unplug it all, and start from scratch, i used that case for one of my friends build and i got it real neat. use the cross bar to tie extra wires too, also turn your hard drive around so the ports face the back, less clutter that way. zip ties are your friend, so use alot of them.

the rate my cables thread usually has a ton of good advice too.

 

[cornelious0_0]

the rate my cables thread usually has a ton of good advice too.

Heh...I'll be waiting.

 

[PsycoGeek]

Yeah, I've been wanting to clean that up; maybe you guys can give me a few tips on how to to that. As for that huge bundle of wires comming from the PSU, I have no idea what to do with that, so I just zip-tied it together (zip-tie is red if you can see it, kinda blends in) into a very rough pony-tail as you can see and threw it into a 5.25" bay, but it keeps falling out since there's nothing to keep it in that bay. Any ideas on what to do with that bundle? Hmm... Perhaps I could zip-tie it into the bay or something. As for the other wires, I tried to zip-tie them to the bar running across the case below the PSU (the zip-tie is the green thing) to keep those wires out of the way. The IDE and floppy cables are a bit uncooperative, they REFUSE to bend and let me get them outta the front fan port's airflow and I'm not sure it's ok or not to use force with those cables -- they're very hard and I wouldn't want to "crack" anything.

So any suggestions on how to clean up the wires?

I'll post my case and explain the wiriring a bit:

The IDE and Floppy cables are against the motherboard tray until they reach the drives. You can also see the ATX power is coming from behind the drive bays, and so are the front panel connectors. Keep that stuff tight against the MB tray and out of the way! Some of the wires for drives hang down because of a limitation in length, or mabe my impatience...

This wite has no where else to go right now. But at least it is sleeved and poses little resistance to ait passing around it. It is also zip tied to the case brace to keep it where I put it.

It can still get a bit jumbled in areas, especially where all the cables are bunched together. Do your best here to keep cables separated and tucked in out of the way.

A picture of the backside of the MB Tray showing power cables. Drilling holes for wire routing is very usefull, but be sure to use a rubber grommet to protect the wires from being cut and shorting. Even tiny vibrations in the case can cause this to happen over a period of time. Use self stick wiriring clips to keep everything where you want it.

Wire organization isn't easy. It takes a lot of thought and trial and error to get it just right for your case and setup. It takes even more effort to actually run the wires. Getting them onto tight spaces can be very trying and time consuming. Drive positioning can make or break a wire run, and movinga drive might be necessary to get the wires where you want them. Point here is, don't give up on the organization because it doesn't seem to be working out. Take your time and try different possibilities. First time I did a re-wiriring in my case it took about 5 hours of moving drives and folding/tucking wires.

 

[dtess17]

let me rephrase cornelious will have a lot of good advice for you.
he's been around there for some time.

 

[cornelious0_0]

let me rephrase cornelious will have a lot of good advice for you.
he's been around there for some time.

Thanks bro, honestly never meant to develop a nice rep as I have, but I try to live up to it.

I'll try and comment as much as I can later though, I'm at work and can't let my eMac screen sit on [H] too long before management gets pissy.

 

[dtess17]

i doubt anyone really means to get a rep. I think it just happens.
my thread on 120mm fans get's me PM's all the time.

i think all companies should have a 30min [H]ard break

 

[Berix]

Thanks bro, honestly never meant to develop a nice rep as I have, but I try to live up to it.

I'll try and comment as much as I can later though, I'm at work and can't let my eMac screen sit on [H] too long before management gets pissy.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Psycho: what kinda case is that? It looks very similar to mine except the harddrive bay is at a 90 degree angle. And I like how you ran all those cables behind the motherboard tray. I think I might be able to do that on mine; there are some screws on the side of the case that's underneath the motherboard. I just don't know how to get the cables behind there, I can't seem to be able to find any opening but if your case is similar to mine there might be a gap around the 5.25", 3.5", and HDD bay area. And are all those wires at the back actually connected and powering something or did you just tie the power connectors together to hold them there?

I also have a question about the Freezer; I hope this doesn't sound kinda n00bish. But if my stock AMD HS/F spins at 3500RPM at idle and the maximum RPM of the Freezer is 2200. Does that mean that when the comp and Freezer are at full load it'll only make 2/3rds the noise of my AMD HS/F at idle?

 

[PsycoGeek]

The case is an Antec, this one.

All the power connectors on the backside of the MB tray are powering something... 3 hard drives and my two exhaust fans. Yes, both of my fans draw air OUT of the case. If you look in the first photo you will see a big hole in the bottom of the case... It sits on a box I made with a filter for intake.

If you look on the picture of the MB tray back you can see just next to the ATX power cable end (where the sleeving is secured by the heatshrink) there is a hole missing a screw... seems I forgot to put that one back in. Removing it gave me just enough to pry the MB tray and drive cages apart to get the ATX cable through there. The other power cables have been pulled through the rectangular opening that is beside the power supply itself.

 

[dtess17]

I'll be looking forward to it.

Psycho: what kinda case is that? It looks very similar to mine except the harddrive bay is at a 90 degree angle. And I like how you ran all those cables behind the motherboard tray. I think I might be able to do that on mine; there are some screws on the side of the case that's underneath the motherboard. I just don't know how to get the cables behind there, I can't seem to be able to find any opening but if your case is similar to mine there might be a gap around the 5.25", 3.5", and HDD bay area. And are all those wires at the back actually connected and powering something or did you just tie the power connectors together to hold them there?

I also have a question about the Freezer; I hope this doesn't sound kinda n00bish. But if my stock AMD HS/F spins at 3500RPM at idle and the maximum RPM of the Freezer is 2200. Does that mean that when the comp and Freezer are at full load it'll only make 2/3rds the noise of my AMD HS/F at idle?

the rpm is not the only thing that will matter in the overall noise. Bearings, and fan style will also impact noise. the artic fans overall are pretty good, and a fair amount quieter than other heatsinks.

that being said, the freezer is not silient. better than stock yes, but not silient

 

[cornelious0_0]

that being said, the freezer is not silient. better than stock yes, but not silient

Agreed...better then stock...as most aftermarket HSF's are...but the Scythe Ninja with a 120mm Nexus or something is your best bet for a silent air cooler...especially being as nice a performer as it is.

 

[dtess17]

don't even need to spend the money on the nexus, a globalwin or even yate loon would do well also.

 

[cornelious0_0]

don't even need to spend the money on the nexus, a globalwin or even yate loon would do well also.

Yate Loon would be the way to go, name was just slipping my mind at the time.

 

[Berix]

Hi guys, I know it's been a while since I posted in this topic. Anyway, I decided to go with the Scythe Ninja Plus and a 120mm Yate Loon fan in the front. I'm planning to order them tomarrow evening.

But before I do, will there be any clearance problems with my Antec SLK3000B case? I measured the case and it's 165mm from the retention bracket to the top of the case. I looked at the dimensions for the Ninja and it seems to be 150mm high but with the 120mm on it will it exceed 165mm?

 

[dtess17]

Hi guys, I know it's been a while since I posted in this topic. Anyway, I decided to go with the Scythe Ninja Plus and a 120mm Yate Loon fan in the front. I'm planning to order them tomarrow evening.

But before I do, will there be any clearance problems with my Antec SLK3000B case? I measured the case and it's 165mm from the retention bracket to the top of the case. I looked at the dimensions for the Ninja and it seems to be 150mm high but with the 120mm on it will it exceed 165mm?

you should be fine..the fan can mount on any side of the ninja. so even if you can't mount it say from the left...you could from the bottom or something ya know.

 

[Berix]

I mean clearance from the top of the Ninja to the side of the case. Height-wise.

----------------------- SIDE OF CASE
l
l
l = 165mm
l
l
l
=========== MOBO


But as for clearance around the CPU, there's only 16mm of space between the retention bracket and the RAM and both DIMMs are 15mm. I'm hoping I can keep the RAM in the first two DIMMs but if I have to I'll move them back to the second or third.

 

[Berix]

I installed the Scythe Ninja Plus (w/ stock Ninja fan) and a 120mm Yate Loon fan into my system last week but the temps haven't been much better, and in some cases, worse.

Stock AMD Config (Idle/Load). Some of these temps are different from the first post because of the lower ambient temps since then.
Mobo: 39'C / 48'C
CPU: 37'C / 47'C

Ninja Plus w/ 120mm Front Instake Config
Mobo: 41'C / 48'C
CPU: 37'C / 45'C

Ambient Temp at Testing: 26'C

The only temp that dropped significantly was the hard drive temp by 6'C.

I know the wires are a little messy at the bottom, but that can't affect cool air from reaching the Ninja above it, can it? I realize the front intake is 47CFM and the rear exhaust is 39CFM, but the PSU has to push out more than 8CFM of air, right?

Why aren't my temps better with the Ninja and front intake?

 

[dtess17]

Something doesn't seem right with that. The Ninja should give you a lot better temps than stock. Perhaps try reseating the heatsink, also turn up the tri cool to high.

 

[Berix]

Something doesn't seem right with that. The Ninja should give you a lot better temps than stock. Perhaps try reseating the heatsink, also turn up the tri cool to high.

Ok, I'll do that. Now I just have to figure out how to remove this badboy . Both my thumbs were SO.. sore after I put the Ninja in.

On another note. When I peeled off the blue tape at the base of the heatsink I noticed that there was a light adhesive that had attached the blue tape to the heatsink base, so I took some 99% (ninety-nine percent) Isopropyl Alcohol and wiped the base. But white streaks kept appearing on it a bit after the alcohol evaporated. I was able to keep the white streaks low by immediatly wiping the base after I applied the alcohol but they still form. Is this a reaction with the alcohol and copper? And I not suppose to use alcohol with copper bases? I don't think it's residue from the alcohol since it's 99%.

 

[dtess17]

Ok, I'll do that. Now I just have to figure out how to remove this badboy . Both my thumbs were SO.. sore after I put the Ninja in.

On another note. When I peeled off the blue tape at the base of the heatsink I noticed that there was a light adhesive that had attached the blue tape to the heatsink base, so I took some 99% (ninety-nine percent) Isopropyl Alcohol and wiped the base. But white streaks kept appearing on it a bit after the alcohol evaporated. I was able to keep the white streaks low by immediatly wiping the base after I applied the alcohol but they still form. Is this a reaction with the alcohol and copper? And I not suppose to use alcohol with copper bases? I don't think it's residue from the alcohol since it's 99%.

you might want to lap the base of the heatsink, there might be some deep groves in it, and i'd also say you might want to pick up some articlean...stuff works wonders, and the surface purifier is better than alcohol.