Need help upgrading wifi at a Motel

C

clubmed112

n00b
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Messages
52
Hi all,
I have been tasked with upgrading the Wifi for a company that I work for. They own a motel and keep getting complaints that people can either not get good enough signal or when they do the connection is very slow or drops in and out. I wanted to start with the router, they have some old crappy Belkin. I was looking at either this:
http://www.amazon.com/Airport-Extreme-802-11N-5TH-GEN/dp/B0057AVXJA/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

or this:

http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/B000H97UC0

We have 60 rooms and about 300ft to cover. We currently have 2 antennas on each side of the property. I will be putting this access point in the middle for the middle rooms:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IYCMNA

Unless someone can recommend something better. The ISP they are using is very slow so we will most likely be upgrading to a T1 line. Security is not an issue as we need to leave the network open. Can anyone tell me if the Apple or the Cisco will preform better under the conditions listed?

Thank you for any help.
 
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Get Unifi
/thread

You can get a three pack for $200.
http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=UAP-3-US
They are semi manged, as in they only need a software manager for the initial setup, which is just a small piece of software on any computer.
You can setup multiple SSID with vlans if you want to provide a open guest, and a secured wlan for internal use only. You can also set up a welcome page that forces people to accept TOS, or even charge people for wireless access.
There are a ton of other features, and they are really good AP's. I am testing them at work, and they blow our more expensive SonicPoints out of the water.

Also only a t1 for that many people and rooms? That is probably more the cause of the slowness than your current setup.
 
Do people not read other threads on here.... there was one posted JUST yesterday with this exact stuff in it.

Basically, you'll want multiple APs. I recommend Unifi APs. For switching use a managed switch like a HP 1800 or 1900 or even something like a Cisco 200 or 300. For routing you can use a number of routers. Pfsense, Untangle, Mikrotik, Cisco. Find what features you want and see who has them. (If you wanting to keep costs down, Mikrotik make solid hardware for cheap.) On the Unifis setup guest policies so no one can talk to each other. You can easily do this for under $1000.

Also, a T1 connection is going to be slower than balls with 60 or more users on at once.
 
An "upgrade" to a T1 will only get you 1.5Mb/s (.125 MebaBytes/s). This is nowhere near enough bandwidth for a hotel, even if you only have 10 people on at any one time. The only reason to get a T1 line anymore is for a low number of users and because they typically come with an SLA.

You should look into the ubiquity unify access points. These have great reviews, and are highly recommended on the forum. When I need to redo my wifi, that's the direction I'm going.
 
They currently have a DSL line through AT&T at 1.5. Which is really slow for that many users. This is why they are getting the complaints I believe. Also do you guys think 3 of those Unifi's will cover what I need? We currently have 2 omni antennas and they seem to cover the grounds but they are just antennas...
 
Best equipment setup for this is:
(1) microtek + (5) Unifi's

Place a Unifi AP every 50' across the length of the building so each unit serves 50' of the building.


Your problem with signal are:

  • You don't have the APs close enough to the clients..... They have to be able to both RECEIVE and TRANSMIT to and from their wireless devices and the APs.
  • You have too many clients compared to how many AP's you have........ Technically if you had 60 clients in one 20' room you could probably use 3 unifi APs and be done, but its just not going to work well over the 300' length of your motel.
 
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clubmed112 said:
They currently have a DSL line through AT&T at 1.5. Which is really slow for that many users. This is why they are getting the complaints I believe. Also do you guys think 3 of those Unifi's will cover what I need? We currently have 2 omni antennas and they seem to cover the grounds but they are just antennas...
Click to expand...

They should if you place them properly. We have 3 in a hospital that can cover one floor. This is with concrete floors and walls and everything. If 3 don't fully cover, order some more. Plug them in, hit adopt and they are ready to do.
 
RB750GL, RB450G, RB2011, RB493G. Pretty much any model they have should do what you want.

The RB2011L looks really nice. I have personally use the 450G and 750.
 
You could also look at Meraki's line of Wifi access points, firewall and managed switches. Though they are cloud managed. So if you aren't onsite you can still manage and change the config as needed.
 
The Cisco SG series is growing on me..... Its still not HP Procurve, or Cisco IOS but the value proposition is good.
 
With 60 users what line would you guys recommend? There will not be 60 at once but that is the count of motel rooms so it is possible to have that many clients logged on at once. Here is what I was going to go with:
(1) Router for $99:
http://routerboard.com/RB2011L-IN
(1) Switch for $269:
http://www.amazon.com/HP-J9450A-ABA-Procurve-1810G-24/dp/B002NAYFSI
(1) 3 pack of Access Points for $259:
http://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=UAP-LR-3-US
Will need Cat6 wiring, 1000ft at $157:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p..._id=1023405&p_id=8114&seq=1&format=4#feedback

Total: $784+Tax
 
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25/25 line at least? You may want to look at QOSing everyone. The Mikrotiks can do it with queues. I'd say a 25 would be adequate. If you have 60 users that's ~512kb/s each which isn't TOO bad compared to some hotels. Then again not everyone would be pulling down and maxing that at the same time. QOS will help you greatly.
 
Never seen that router before. If you aren't going to build/buy an untangle or pfsense appliance, I would got with a zyxel or microtik router.

Also, like we said, none of this will mean anything if you have everyone going through a 1.5Mb connection. Users are still going to complain about very slow speeds. Especially if you don't have a router that can do any sort of traffic management. If 1 person starts a download, everyones internet is going to slow to a halt. So with such a slow line, you are going to get complaints no matter how many APs you set up.

Seriously, tell them how this is going to be a waste of time/money if they don't get proper bandwidth to the building.
 
/usr/home said:
25/25 line at least? You may want to look at QOSing everyone. The Mikrotiks can do it with queues. I'd say a 25 would be adequate. If you have 60 users that's ~512kb/s each which isn't TOO bad compared to some hotels. Then again not everyone would be pulling down and maxing that at the same time. QOS will help you greatly.
Click to expand...

What router would you recommend? I would like to just buy the unit and not assemble it.
 
Oh, Also I wanted to confirm the UniFi APs can do wireless up linking. It would be nice to have to run a cable to one of them with PoE then have the other two just pick up the signal and broadcast as well. I believe I read this correctly in the .pdf. The other two units would then just need power, correct? (I can loose that 1000ft of Cat6 cable) :)
 
clubmed112 said:
Oh, Also I wanted to confirm the UniFi APs can do wireless up linking. It would be nice to have to run a cable to one of them with PoE then have the other two just pick up the signal and broadcast as well. I believe I read this correctly in the .pdf. The other two units would then just need power, correct? (I can loose that 1000ft of Cat6 cable) :)
Click to expand...

You can......BUT you will lose bandwidth doing this.

It's undesirable from a performance point of view. Adding 1 additional Unifi using wireless uplinking cuts the performance in half for both units. Adding 2 with wireless uplink will cut performance by 75% on all three.
 
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Mackintire said:
You can......BUT you will lose bandwidth doing this.

It's undesirable from a performance point of view. Adding 1 Unifi using wireless uplinking cuts the performance in half for both units. Adding 2 with wireless uplink will cut performance by 75% on all three.
Click to expand...

Great info, thank you. I will not do this :)
Does that cabling look good for connecting the APs to the switch?
 
Odd to say that we've been installing them and haven't seen issues. Why are you pulling them out?

We just did one at a 5 building co-op about 80 rooms been working great
 
no comparison.....

A four year old Unifi has support and is getting more features and improvements almost yearly.

I'm also aware of 500+ AP setups with unifi

I highly doubt Ruckus can hold a candle to that...
 
marley1 said:
Odd to say that we've been installing them and haven't seen issues. Why are you pulling them out?

We just did one at a 5 building co-op about 80 rooms been working great
Click to expand...

Our company pulls them out due to them not being able to handle load, management issues and high failure rates. Just about every system that has been sold to these hotels was advertised as the hand of god and that they can handle anything.

But anyways to get back on topic. UniFi APs (Cisco prefered) work well for what OP is looking for, a decent switch or two and some careful planning should make that hotel rock. However you will need much more than a T1, start with 8 T1s (expensive) and you might barely squeak by. You should really have 20+Mbit if you can get it and/or afford it.
 
This is my opinion, but budget $4-$12 per internet user per month for how much your internet should cost.

60 users gives you a $240 a month budget minimum and a $612 per month maximum.

Once you get to a certain level of usage you need to start actually measuring what you use and purchase/ manage your bandwidth as needed.
 
Mackintire said:
This is my opinion, but budget $4-$12 per internet user per month for how much your internet should cost.

60 users gives you a $240 a month budget minimum and a $612 per month maximum.

Once you get to a certain level of usage you need to start actually measuring what you use and purchase/ manage your bandwidth as needed.
Click to expand...

And for that price, if a cable provider is available.. I imagine that the hotel already has cable TV, you should be able to get a pretty decent speed from them.

Around here, a 100/25 business connection from Comcast runs about $200 per month.
 
cyclone3d said:
And for that price, if a cable provider is available.. I imagine that the hotel already has cable TV, you should be able to get a pretty decent speed from them.

Around here, a 100/25 business connection from Comcast runs about $200 per month.
Click to expand...

we pay $420/mo for 35/5...


just wanted to mention that....
 
Maybe I'm the only one wondering why the OP was selected for this assignment...?

- Thinks a T1 is a good idea for 60ish people
- Doesn't understand current wireless hardware trends
- Doesn't seem to know range limitations
- Doesn't know the trade-offs for using different technologies

Are you actually being paid to do this? I sure hope not... I wouldn't pay someone to post a question to the internet and (in some cases incorrectly) interpret the responses!
 
Tytalus said:
Maybe I'm the only one wondering why the OP was selected for this assignment...?

- Thinks a T1 is a good idea for 60ish people
- Doesn't understand current wireless hardware trends
- Doesn't seem to know range limitations
- Doesn't know the trade-offs for using different technologies

Are you actually being paid to do this? I sure hope not... I wouldn't pay someone to post a question to the internet and (in some cases incorrectly) interpret the responses!
Click to expand...

Come on man.

That's not the attitude of a [H] member. The guy knows he needs help and has come here to ask for it, and this is your response? Shame...
 
epimetheus said:
Come on man.

That's not the attitude of a [H] member. The guy knows he needs help and has come here to ask for it, and this is your response? Shame...
Click to expand...

Thank you. It's actually a side task, to help someone out. If I feel I need help on something whats the harm in asking as well as learning along the way.

Again all thank you for the assistance, much appreciated :)
 
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