Need help sizing a WC system...

AreEss

2[H]4U
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Jul 5, 2005
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Okay, I usually cheat like mad with these setups, and they usually have equal parts air and water. Can't do that here, so I'm really unsure on my sizing.

Here's what's being cooled:
2x Opteron 252
2x Big Frigging Video Cards (ATI, nVidia, doesn't matter - they both run hotter than a REALiZM.)
7x Big Frigging Hard Drives (call 'em Hitachi 15K73's for sake of oversizing.)

Since the board is a Tyan K8WE, can't WC anything else really. Power is still being figured out, pumps may have a seperate PSU so I can hack in Vsense and safety cutouts.

Here's what's being abused to cool it:
2x DangerDen RBX
2x Zalman GWB2
7x Koolance HydraPak HDD Coolers
Dunno 2x120mm Rad, probably BlackIce 120.2.
2x Good, strong pumps with GOOD head rating.
Some sorta resevoir.. like it matters that much!

Now, before the debate about "OMG YOU SHOULD USE XYZ" gets started; no, it's not all set in stone, except the HydraPaks. Unless those things leak like a sieve, there simply is nothing equivalent that fits in the same space.

What I was figuring was two circuits that go something like this:
PUMP -> CPU0 -> GPU0 -> Tee -> HDD0+HDD1 -> Tee -> Tee -> Radiator
PUMP -> CPU1 -> GPU1 -> Tee+Tee -> HDD2+3+4 / HDD5+6 -> Tee+Tee -> Tee -> Radiator

The radiator and resevoir would be shared between both circuits, obviously. The setup isn't for overclocking, its's for QUIET, so I was figuring Papst or Panaflo in a draw-out configuration. The actual watercooling "compartment" is segmented from the rest of the case, with significant venting to allow fresh air in. Most of the actual "tubing" will be soldered copper pipe, most likely 1/2".

I'm worried that I don't have enough radiator, though. I can change pretty much anything and everything except the components, since the case is going to be built from scratch. The layout is something like this:
(Rear-Top)->(Front)
PSU -> Floppy bay stuffs
MOTHERBOARD -> DVD+-RWs
Watercooling setup -> INSULATED WALL -> Hard Drives

The thing is, I'm not sure this is big enough. Should I be looking at three circuits? Bigger radiator? More radiators? Again; gotta be quiet, but no way I want to have the parts even around 50C. :p
 
That's a lot of stuff you are cooling. I like that.

I think what you are trying to accomplish can be done with 1 good pump though. That will keep the system a bit more quiet. As long as you don't make any major bottlenecks, it should be fine for all components in the loop.

Your ability to cool is all about how much heat your rads can release. I would suggest using heatercores... as many as you can :p
 
You DEFINITELY need a second radiator.

What I am thinking right now is this :

Harddrive loop : LaingDDC for the pump, and use the native 1/4" tubing of the koolance coolers. Also, Koolance now has a model that cools 2 HDs at once, so you can use those like this : HD : Cooler : HD : HD : Cooler : HD : HD : Cooler : HD : Cooler : HD
and save some money there. You can probably use a single 120mm radiator for the HDs.

Then use one loop for the cpu/gpu. I would suggest you use the TDX or Swiftech 6002 (I lean towards the swiftech block) for simplicity in tubing. For that loop I would suggest the D5 or the AquaXtreme 50Z. For the radiator I think you should try and see if you could fit a Black Ice Pro 3. The extra radiator space will help keep all the components cool. You dont need to really worry about the last part in the loop getting hot water fed to it as the water doesn't heat up much throughout the loop.
 
Erasmus354 said:
You DEFINITELY need a second radiator.

What I am thinking right now is this :

Harddrive loop : LaingDDC for the pump, and use the native 1/4" tubing of the koolance coolers. Also, Koolance now has a model that cools 2 HDs at once, so you can use those like this : HD : Cooler : HD : HD : Cooler : HD : HD : Cooler : HD : Cooler : HD
and save some money there. You can probably use a single 120mm radiator for the HDs.

Presuming 15K174's or even 15K73's, that won't fly; trust me. I know those drives intimately. Take a WDC CRAPtor. They run about that hot, and push some SERIOUS vibration even isolated. (The motors in the Hitachis are among the biggest out there.) Two on one cooler would bring misery, I have no doubt. Besides, I'm playing the "cost is not an object" card. ;)

Then use one loop for the cpu/gpu. I would suggest you use the TDX or Swiftech 6002 (I lean towards the swiftech block) for simplicity in tubing. For that loop I would suggest the D5 or the AquaXtreme 50Z. For the radiator I think you should try and see if you could fit a Black Ice Pro 3. The extra radiator space will help keep all the components cool. You dont need to really worry about the last part in the loop getting hot water fed to it as the water doesn't heat up much throughout the loop.

I actually meant the TDX, but I mix RBX/TDX up all the time. Part of the problem is that there isn't one CPU or one GPU. There's two of each. And everything runs hot, period. That's why the split the way I had it. After some tweaking, I found even more room, so I can possibly cram 2 double-120 rads in, both push-out.
I suspect though, that I will need to do 2x 120mm rads, and set up a two-pass with a Beckett M350AU. (I don't screw around when it comes to pumps. 350GPH with a 5' max head.) There's no way I'm gonna get a 120.3 in there, not without redoing the whole thing, and that'd jack the complexity higher than I want to go. ;(
 
I realize everything runs hot, what you need to realize is this : Even with all of those high powered components in the CPU/GPU loop the water is only going to heat up by less than 2C throughout the entire loop. I did some calculations on that awhile back in another thread that I really dont feel like finding right now. The only thing you need to worry about is having enough radiator in the loop to handle it all. Also, I would be careful that the pump you use doesn't do more harm than good, you dont want something that will dump more heat into the loop than you get benefit from the added flow.
 
Yeah, I'm aware that the increase is marginal. Too used to working with cars (hrm, I wonder how much a Griffin 2x120mm would cost.. I'll have to call them.) ;)

The problem I have is that I don't have enough radiator to handle it, I don't think. So I was figuring the simple solution would be to run it through twice. Bleed as much as possible, ignoring the lack of direct component-to-component increase, so that I can remove heat as quickly as possible. e.g. Keep the incoming as low as possible, because the radiators are not as efficient as they could be. (In this particular case, planning on Papst or AcoustiFans. Speaking of which, anyone know of a source that isn't rediculous on pricing? $35?! Gimme a fucking break.)

The other problem is that the longer it's in a single loop, the more I start running into head limits. I'm still working on the design, and threw a second 2x120mm rad in, but this is definitely a case where a picture is worth a thousand words.

Angle 1
Angle 2

Those large openings on the plate (which is 0.08" 4140 cold roll alloy for EMI/RFI) are where the watercooling connections pass through. The drives will be mounted as low as possible, for obvious reasons, but it gives you a better idea of the head problem. The lower section is 6.2" tall, the case is 15" wide, and from the top of the PSU to the base is 19.7".
 
I'd loose the RBX's tbh mate. All the messing around with the Y fitting isn't worth it, a TDX is what you want. I wouldn't bother cooling the HDD's aswell, just make sure your case has a fair amount of airflow and they'll be happy.

You'll cool 2x Opterons and 2x graphics cards with a BIX2 and two Panaflo L1A's no problem. There's a lad on Bit-tech cooling 2x Opteron 250's and a 9800 Pro with a single BIX and a Panaflo L1A, the CPU's idle at ~40°C respectively.
 
Leeum said:
I'd loose the RBX's tbh mate. All the messing around with the Y fitting isn't worth it, a TDX is what you want. I wouldn't bother cooling the HDD's aswell, just make sure your case has a fair amount of airflow and they'll be happy.

You'll cool 2x Opterons and 2x graphics cards with a BIX2 and two Panaflo L1A's no problem. There's a lad on Bit-tech cooling 2x Opteron 250's and a 9800 Pro with a single BIX and a Panaflo L1A, the CPU's idle at ~40°C respectively.

You should read the OP first post, he wants to cool the HDs so watercooling them is not an option... :rolleyes:

Also he wants a quiet solution, and the BIX is not a good choice if you want quiet. For quiet you want to get the BIP. The thinner radiator allows the use of slower spinning fans without a drastic dropoff in performance that you would get using the thicker BIX.

Also, an IDLE of 40C is nothing impressive at all, in fact that is quite poor. You can achieve better idle temps on stock air cooling :rolleyes: (and it will be nearly as quiet)
 
Light1984 said:
oh jeez.. .OT sorry, but what 3D program did you use for those pics..

So totally forgiven; lots of folks have been asking me that.
I use SketchUp for my rapid prototyping.
When I have the design finalized, what you see there will be stripped down to just the steel angle, aluminum plates, and brass fittings and exported to AutoCAD, and from there, possibly to a machine shop depending on the part. (I may do the machining myself.)
That particular design is a steel baseplate, which the rectangular tube will be welded to, with .08" 4140 steel atop to provide a weldable base for the steel frame for the upper section. All of the panels will be 6061 aluminum.

Erasmus354 said:
Also he wants a quiet solution, and the BIX is not a good choice if you want quiet. For quiet you want to get the BIP. The thinner radiator allows the use of slower spinning fans without a drastic dropoff in performance that you would get using the thicker BIX.

Exactly. The BIX is too thick to work with <25dBA fans. My ears are especially sensitive to white noise. This is also why I am considering talking to Griffin radiator about a custom aluminum part.

Erasmus354 said:
Also, an IDLE of 40C is nothing impressive at all, in fact that is quite poor. You can achieve better idle temps on stock air cooling (and it will be nearly as quiet)

40C idle on water? Boy, that's fucked up majorly somewhere. With just a CUD725, I have no trouble keeping an Athlon XP 2200 at 43C under LOAD.
My target temperatures here are 40C on the HDDs (which is eminently doable, speaking from experience on air), 30-35C CPUs, and around the same for the GPUs. Anything at or over 55C would be unacceptable; this is not my Athlon MPs.
 
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