Need help in PSU decision

R

rsnellma

Gawd
Joined
Jul 17, 2002
Messages
639
I am trying to decide if I really need a TruePower 550 or even a TruePower 480 for that matter. I want to replace my el cheapo in my Rig 2 sig and need another to build a 3rd Rig:
Chieftec Case
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
AMD Athlon XP 2000+
Buffalo 2x256MB PC3200
IBM Deskstar 16.8GB HDD (ATA33)
VisionTek GeForce 3
Lite-On 52x CD-ROM
generic floppy drive
Cold Cathode Blue Light


* maybe add my
Adaptec 2940UW SCSI Adapter
Plextor 8x20 CD-R (SCSI)
Plextor 40x UltraPlex (SCSI)
CoolerMaster Neon Blue 80mm Case Fans (4)

So, can anyone tell me if a TruePower 430 would be enough or should I at least go for a TruePower 480? Or what about a SmartPower 450? I am not looking at upgraded to an AMD64 system until at least next summer at the earliest. Thanks in advance.

Bob2001
 
i agree, but i don't suggest Antec PSUs. check out Fortron Source/Sparkle, you can pick up one of their 530W PSU models for $65 at newegg. very solid units, i use one in my overclocked dualie AMD setup.
 
Consider something from PC Power & Cooling, simply the best PSU's on the market.
The 425 Silencer if noise is an issue, or the 510 Deluxe (not loud in my opinion). Tightest rails on the market, rock solid. Many consider them the finest PSU's available.

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/home.htm

twajetmech
 
Appreciate the other brands mentioned, but I have been sold on Antec and just need to figure out which of the three PSU (SmartPower 450, TruePower430 or TruePower480) will do. I already ran into the issue with my TurboLink 420 that came with my Chieftec case,,,I cannot use my GeForce 3 Ti 500 or my ATI 9700Pro with it. The PSU just cannot handle it. So, thanks for the suggestions of PC&Cooling, yes, I have heard their the best, but look at those prices. I cannot justify that kind of expense, but thank you anyways. So, which of the 3 PSU will do? Thanks in advance.

Bob2001
 
If you want a psu that is almost as good as pc power and cooling and aroung 5x better than the antec 550 yet only costs around $80 shipped, get the Fortron 530 watt.

I have had the antec 430 and the 550 and I have not been happy with either. They get hot, loud, insuffucient power, they could not run my rig overclocked, the voltage lines droop like crazy, and TERRIBLE tech support.

The Fortron 530 has almost the same exact specs as the pc power and cooling, its just not all prettied up. Get the fortron. The best $80 you will ever spend. Trust us. We're not just saying it to practice typing.

Everyone that reccomends fortron and pcp&c has had an antec you will find. You will also find that everyone that reccomends Antec has never had the fortron or pc power and cooling. I think that speaks volumes.
 
Ok, ok. I may be persuaded away from Antec. I will look at the Fortron. I have heard of it, just never read any reviews on it. Any suggestions as to where I may? I don't overclock or even plan to overclock, I am just looking for solid, stable performance to run my gaming rigs on. Also, has anyone had good luck with the ThermalTake Silent Power PSU? NewEgg has a 480watt for $65 + S/H that sounds and looks nice. Thanks in advance.

Bob2001
 
I have also had experience with Thermaltake. :D For some reason I like buying psu's. I'm weird. :D

I would not suggest the thermaltake. It won't blow up, but its not quiet and the volts fluctuate more than the antec. It looks cool though. Not a bad psu all in all but when you can have the fortron 530 watt for like $75 bucks shipped I wouldn't reccomend it at all.

as for fortron reviews, just do a google :) Make sure you are reading about the current version though. There are some older units with less amps.... The one you want right now is $75 on newegg.
 
computerpro3 said:
I have had the antec 430 and the 550 and I have not been happy with either. They get hot, loud, insuffucient power, they could not run my rig overclocked, the voltage lines droop like crazy, and TERRIBLE tech support.
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If a PSU is sold in enough volume, then don't you think people are going to have problems? And also, consider that the people on messages forums are going to be posting most usually with problems, not with praises. So don't count them out just cuz you got a bad egg. My 2 cents worth

Also, if you are considering Antec, don't get a SmartPower. They are for all intents and purposes barely better than the average generic PSU.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
If a PSU is sold in enough volume, then don't you think people are going to have problems? And also, consider that the people on messages forums are going to be posting most usually with problems, not with praises. So don't count them out just cuz you got a bad egg. My 2 cents worth
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The same song i've sung a hundred times. If a million people have a certain product, bad batches & complaints are bound to crop up.

I'd look into a True 430/480 or the Sparkle(same as fortron) 530w @ Newegg. All of those would have more than enough power for your proposed rig...and then some.
 
I'm not upset because I got a bad one. Mine wasn't bad at all. It just wasn't up for my system. Both of them. The fortron 530 is better than any psu antec makes less the EPS12V 550 which is a lot mot expensive.
 
I don't know if you're really looked at the specs or test results done before, but the Antec True power line boasts a 3% +/- deviation on it's primary rails, whereas the Fotron only promiss 5%. Also, the advangtages of having independent +5v and +12v rails is unmatchable by anything Fortron can offer.
 
Regardless of what Antec promises, Fortron's regulation is simply better. Both of my antecs have been out of spec and it is a known problem with them. Fortron rates much more conservativley. But since you go on specs, and you probably know that amps are possibly the single most important spec, you would be interested to know that Fortron kills antec on the 12v line. It also has more real power wattage wise. It has slightly less specs than the pc power and cooling. The Fortron also has internal pots; the antec does not. The fortron is made by the same company that makes pc power and cooling to almost the same quality standards; antec is not. As I'm sure you know, antec rates rather optimistically on all their ratings; fortron rates conservativley. Don't get me wrong, Antec power supplies are excellent for the casual guy that wants a decent computer, but if you are going to overclock, go with the fortron. Plus the fortron 530 watt is the same price as the antec 430 watt......
 
computerpro3 said:
Regardless of what Antec promises, Fortron's regulation is simply better. Both of my antecs have been out of spec and it is a known problem with them. Fortron rates much more conservativley. But since you go on specs, and you probably know that amps are possibly the single most important spec, you would be interested to know that Fortron kills antec on the 12v line. It also has more real power wattage wise. It has slightly less specs than the pc power and cooling. The Fortron also has internal pots; the antec does not. The fortron is made by the same company that makes pc power and cooling to almost the same quality standards; antec is not. As I'm sure you know, antec rates rather optimistically on all their ratings; fortron rates conservativley. Don't get me wrong, Antec power supplies are excellent for the casual guy that wants a decent computer, but if you are going to overclock, go with the fortron. Plus the fortron 530 watt is the same price as the antec 430 watt......
Click to expand...

1. So if I had a Fortron that was out of spec, then would that make it a known problem with all Antec supplies? :rolleyes:
Regardless of what Antec promises, Fortron's regulation is simply better.
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I haven't seen any non-anecdotal evidence that suggests Antecs have problem keeping within the specs they are rated for, or that Fortron supplies do better than the 5% they are rated to. Don't you think that if they really did have better regulation, that Fortron would put that as spec?

2. I don't go on specs alone, especially not wattage because that would lead me to buy a 660w el cheapo super PSU.

3. I don't know when 4a more, at levels over 20a, was considered killing, especially for the system in question.

4. Get your facts straight before you come in here telling me who makes what. In fact, Fortron Source is a *major* OEM and manufacturer of power supplies. They actually make their own, and also did/still do supply for PC Power and Cooling. Antec is OEM'ed by Channel Well Technologies, yet another major manufacturer of power supplies world wide. I don't know what you're trying to prove; Both companies make great supplies.

5. Yes, Fortron traditionally rate conservativly, however I am not aware that Antec rates liberally;

6. You don't need barely even a 400w PSU anyway, so why compare on generally bogus wattage ratings anyway? Look, if I was recommending for a dual CPU system or something with a RAID array in it that really taxed the +12v, I would suggest a Fortron supply over an Antec. But for that system, you could easily run on a 300w PSU; I do, actually I run a bit more than that, see sig. My +12v is rated as 15a, and i've never had any problems except poor cooling that has kept me back from an overclock.
 
listen for all the proof you want just go to xtremesystems.org/forums and make a thread about it. Maybe I will.

Second, since you are saying in point 6 that the fortron can take a better load than the antec, for the same amount of money, why wouldn't you get the better psu? It just doesn't compute with what you are saying.

BTW I didn't give you one false piece of info on who makes what supply. how come you're telling me to get my facts straight??? :confused:

lets put it this way. I certainly hope you are not going to say that the antec is better than a pcp&c. The fortron IS basically a pcp&c with a few less amps.
 
What are the warranties on Fortron PSU? And how is their tech support? Also, I did some research and found that Sparkle (SPI) is made by the same company as Fortron and PC P&C. How are SPI PSU? Thanks in advance.

Bob2001
 
The fortron is made by the same company that makes pc power and cooling to almost the same quality standards;
Click to expand...
My point about getting your facts straight was that it's not that someone is making PSUs for Fortron, they are the supplier, and also that only older PC Power and Cooling supplies use Fortron, at this point the current OEM is really unknown.

lets put it this way. I certainly hope you are not going to say that the antec is better than a pcp&c.
Click to expand...
If you really believe that, then I don't think that you understand a 1% vs 3% vs 5% regulation rating.

listen for all the proof you want just go to xtremesystems.org/forums and make a thread about it
Click to expand...
Because everything on message boards is true, and that applies to this one. That's why I don't bring an anecdotal evidence into this.

The fortron IS basically a pcp&c with a few less amps.
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Oh, and less regulation, and more ripple current, and less AC input filtering, and smaller gauge wires, and...
 
There already is threads @ xtreme and overclockers. I hang out here also. And i've owned just about every brand of PS and every wattage.

Please read the fortron Threads a few people have started and learned a lot from. I used to be a Antec Fanboy too. I know you love you antec. But until you try a fortron and see it weighs 2lbs more than an antec, And adjustable rails you just dont know.

People assume just because you pay $100-$120 for a supply it's the best. My antec no matter what could not hold up going up and past 4ghz in my vapo or even on air.


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26280&highlight=fortron

Read the whole tread. I've got a 350 fortron that holds the juice better than a 550 Antec. Buy a good fortron and you will know.

You will find 10 total fortron PS running in my house at the moment between my duallie's, folding rigs, Vapo and new AMD 64 3000+ rig @ 2.9ghz.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
I don't know if you're really looked at the specs or test results done before, but the Antec True power line boasts a 3% +/- deviation on it's primary rails, whereas the Fotron only promiss 5%. Also, the advangtages of having independent +5v and +12v rails is unmatchable by anything Fortron can offer.
Click to expand...


I've also have a wattage/volt meter

http://www.truextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32102

No one's computer uses 500 watts. Let's just get that out the way. My duallie's running fine on a Fortron 300 watt. Not the generic GTU fortron. . But the $40 120mm fan one.

While my vapo rig/intel rig @ 4ghz + was pulling around 300 watts my 3.3v line was dropping to 2.94v !!!!which really blows when you have good BH5 memory and a volt modded board that will put 3.6v to the memory if needed. Which the Antec will never do because of the 3% deviation. But i have modded antec 550s to give more 3.3,12v and 5v But they still couldnt hold. I used to have 5 Antec 550's total.

My 12v line was dropping down to 11.47v, which you may say my vapo is pulling too much but actually turning on my vapo and seeing how much power it uses. It's only 100 watts and 2.1 amps while running. So the Antec should be able to stick within it 3% variance easy.


Yes as of now im a Fortron Fan boy based on my own experience. OCZ has a new killer PS out that im going to try out. I sell a lot of computers. I have no problem buying, testing, then getting rid of what i dont like.

And i use Antec 3700 and 2600 cases for customers computer, Antec's are nice supplies. And price with the case is killer. But they cannot hold up to Hardcore overclocking and tweaking. Not the True series. I loved antec for their older supplies.

Buy a fortron for way less than the Antec, try it and you wont waste the Antec $$ anymore.
 
^^^^^ the man speaks the truth.

Here's a testimony from a buyer of the fortron:

The machine at work is running 7 160gb IDE drives (6 in a RAID5 storage array, 1 as system drive), 2 optical drives (1 cd burner, 1 dvd burner), 8 80mm fans, 1 P4 2.2ghz, 1.5gb ram, GeForce 4, cathode lighting. Everything is perfectly stable, no voltage fluctuations and nice and cool.

At home I replaced my Antec, which was suffering from occasional brownouts causing the system to lock up. This problem is gone now, and voltages are stable as hell. This machine is running 2 250gb SATA IDE mirrored (storage), 2 37gb 15k rmp U320 SCSI striped (system) and 1 80gb PATA IDE (swap & temp), P4 3ghz, 2gb DDR400, ATI 9700 AIW, DVD burner, Soundblaster, 5 80mm fans, cathode lighting, lots of USB devices, etc.

Plus the molex connectors have a nifty grip!
Click to expand...

I think that pretty much sums up how great the fortron is.
 
so let's see if I can summarize this thread:

There's currently 2 groups of people arguing. Those who have experience with both forton and antec, and those who have only used antec.

The people who've used both recommend the fortron unanimously.
The people who've only used antec think fortron sucks.

Hrmm, seems plainly obvious to me which is the superior power supply.

How is noise on the fortrons?
 
Fryguy8 said:
so let's see if I can summarize this thread:

There's currently 2 groups of people arguing. Those who have experience with both forton and antec, and those who have only used antec.

The people who've used both recommend the fortron unanimously.
The people who've only used antec think fortron sucks.

Hrmm, seems plainly obvious to me which is the superior power supply.
Click to expand...

LMFAO :D I dunno why but that struck me as really funny the first time I read it. Noise isn't bad at all, when the antec is at full speed I say they are similar, which isn't loud at all IMHO. But thats just me.
 
Thanks to all. You have sold me I will be purchasing a Fortron 530 within the week. Thanks again. In fact, I will polish up the outside casing to give it a mirror finish. It will really look sweet with my CoolerMaster Blue LED 80mm fans beeming off it. If all goes well, I will be a Fortron fanboy and spread the word to my co-workers. Thanks again.

One other thing, what does the term "folding rig" mean? I have been hearing that and think it refers to a testing platform for parts. Just wondering. Thanks again.

Bob2001
 
Tedinde said:
Please read the fortron Threads a few people have started and learned a lot from. I used to be a Antec Fanboy too. I know you love you antec. But until you try a fortron and see it weighs 2lbs more than an antec, And adjustable rails you just dont know.

People assume just because you pay $100-$120 for a supply it's the best. My antec no matter what could not hold up going up and past 4ghz in my vapo or even on air.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about me being an Antec Fanboy :rolleyes: I don't even have an Antec PSU, well one is comming in the mail, but I digress. My recommendations are based on solid facts rather than anecdotal evidence. Transient response and ripple current graphs from that one Japanese site(which I don't have the link for ATM). 4ghz on Vapochill is not you average system, or even your average tweaker system, so recommendations based on your experience under that sort of condition is irrelevent for the discussion.

Tedinde said:
While my vapo rig/intel rig @ 4ghz + was pulling around 300 watts my 3.3v line was dropping to 2.94v !!!!which really blows when you have good BH5 memory and a volt modded board that will put 3.6v to the memory if needed. Which the Antec will never do because of the 3% deviation.

Yes as of now im a Fortron Fan boy based on my own experience. OCZ has a new killer PS out that im going to try out.
Click to expand...
So because your Antec wouldn't run OUT OF SPEC for your modding pleasure, supposidly because of the regulation, you're complaining? Aww shit, my new Ford Mustang will only go to 110mph because of the damn limiter, that means that it sucks and I should buy a Viper and recommend against any Mustangs in the future; Come on, get real :rolleyes: Not that I think that the Antec trying to maintain 3% has anything to do with it's inability to keep up with a very ambitious overclock.

Also, how do you figure the OCZ is going to be a "killer" supply? I haven't seen any reviews, well i've seen one the was full of technical errors, but i'm talking about a real review done right, w/ a Scope and adjustable loading capability.

Oh, and check out the DC forum for info about folding, basically it's using your extra CPU cycles to research proteins
 
Fryguy8 said:
so let's see if I can summarize this thread:

There's currently 2 groups of people arguing. Those who have experience with both forton and antec, and those who have only used antec.

The people who've used both recommend the fortron unanimously.
The people who've only used antec think fortron sucks.

Hrmm, seems plainly obvious to me which is the superior power supply.

How is noise on the fortrons?
Click to expand...

To clarify: I never said Fortrons suck, hell i've recommended them before depending on budget situations. They are both good brands of power supplies FFS, it's just that Antec's have better regulation.

Also, the first Antec i've ever bought isn't even here yet; I've used Sparkle, Vantec, L&C, and Enermax in the past. Not trying to say experiences with a certain supply aren't worth mentioning, i'm simply saying that anecdotal evidence from one or two supplies from you is not very relavent considering the wide-ranging quality levels of some manufacturers, and the sheer numbers involved. There are people that have used generic supplies all their life and never had any problem, but that doesn't mean that generic supplies are of high-quality.
 
Not that I think that the Antec trying to maintain 3% has anything to do with it's inability to keep up with a very ambitious overclock.
Click to expand...

Of course it does. You do a vdimm mod to your mobo like me and Ted have done and then watch your voltage leap all over the damn place with the memory due to antecs crappy regulation on the 3.3v line. And then watch your vcore go all over the place due to the crappy 12v line. Then watch your radeon overclocks suffer due to crappy 5v line. And yes I have tested this.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
I don't even have an Antec PSU
Click to expand...


:eek:


after all that arguing and defending antec you DONT EVEN HAVE ONE??? :eek:

To the thread starter: take mine, Ted's, and many other users EXPERIENCE with both and go with the fortron or take vertigo's well intended yet off the mark assumptions.

Actually, I feel stupid. I should have known you didn't have one the way you were adamantly saying how good the regulation was.

:rolleyes:

anyway I'm done here.
Enjoy your 480w antec when it comes. It should handle your rig just fine. I wouldn't have ragged on antec so much If I knew u were getting one.
no hard feelings anyways vertigo, i hope? :)
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Transient response and ripple current graphs from that one Japanese site(which I don't have the link for ATM).
Click to expand...
Here's ice czars post linking that japanese psu review: http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1025688520&postcount=7 .
PCP&C and the Antec True's leading the pack for clean power (by a mile seemingly). You guys might be arguing two similar but different points. The FSP 530w might have a crapload of fairly clean 12v power but the Antec sure regulates it near perfect.

I'd like to try out that Sparkle 530w and see what its made out of, heck for $69 i don't think you'll find anything that comes close to it in terms of real amperage. The Enermax Noistaker might come close but i know little about these psu's or the topic in general (i like to read though! :) )
 
Fryguy8 said:
How is noise on the fortrons?
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The models with a 120mm fan are really silent. I had an 350w antec smartpower and changed it to a 380w truepower due to it being too noisy. The truepower was a bit more silent, but far from what I'd call silent. It broke down after a while and I had to rma it to antec. The replacement antec sent me was dead on arrival, so I had to rma it again.. They where not excactly fast, and I got a 350w fortron while waiting. (took a month in whole)

After the antec's I had to put my ear next to the powersupply to hear it was actually running. I had better rails and it was cheaper...
 
Vertigo Acid said:
So because your Antec wouldn't run OUT OF SPEC for your modding pleasure, supposidly because of the regulation, you're complaining? Aww shit, my new Ford Mustang will only go to 110mph because of the damn limiter, that means that it sucks and I should buy a Viper and recommend against any Mustangs in the future; Come on, get real :rolleyes: Not that I think that the Antec trying to maintain 3% has anything to do with it's inability to keep up with a very ambitious overclock.
Click to expand...

This is an overclocking site, and what people here do is run equipment to their full potential, not limited by their spec. If product A consistently runs better then product B people will consider it better, whatever the specs. This is why a majority of people who have tried both prefere Fortron. I've never really heard of a fortron powersupply failing, but I have had an antec fail on me, and heard of plenty breaking down. :)
 
rsnellma said:
One other thing, what does the term "folding rig" mean? I have been hearing that and think it refers to a testing platform for parts. Just wondering. Thanks again.

Bob2001
Click to expand...

a folding rig is a computer setup strictly for running a Folding client such as Folding@Home or Distributed Folding. i believe most of the effort goes into F@H here.

if you'd like to know more, PM me. i'd be happy to explain the details.

by the way, the Fortron 530w unit i own is in my folding rig. ;)
 
Fryguy8 said:
so let's see if I can summarize this thread:

There's currently 2 groups of people arguing. Those who have experience with both forton and antec, and those who have only used antec.

The people who've used both recommend the fortron unanimously.
The people who've only used antec think fortron sucks.

Hrmm, seems plainly obvious to me which is the superior power supply.

How is noise on the fortrons?
Click to expand...

The fortrons are super quiet, and so are most antecs.

Vertigo Acid Just a joke on the Fanboy. I really dont care what power supply people buy just giving my opinion like everyone else.




Also, how do you figure the OCZ is going to be a "killer" supply? I haven't seen any reviews, well i've seen one the was full of technical errors, but i'm talking about a real review done right, w/ a Scope and adjustable loading capability.
Click to expand...

Enjoy the OCZ power supply review. A good Internet friend is reviewing one Liquid3d, and we have one coming "in house' for review @ Xtreme.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=187

http://www.truextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32034

OCZ had a crap reputation 2-3 years ago and most people know why. New owner took over, customer service will bend over backwared for you. They have a Support group @ xtreme for any questions and new announcements.

Check this new thing out.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=36997&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

I've got a pair of OCZ pc4200's that will do 305fsb 1:1 with only 3volts.

I've shipped 8 Fortron 530 Power supplies overseas to internet friends that just cant buy Fortrons in their country. And they dont mind paying the $40 shipping.

One person i sent a fortron 530 and a PC power and cooling 510. Not named but a famous overclocker. He's using the fortron over the PCower nad cooling for more volts to his 3.3 for really pushing volts to his BH5's. Lets just say 3.75v.

Numbers on the side of the PS mean crap to me. Testing is what counts. 3% sounds nice, but dropping 3% on a 12v line is 11.64 volts.

Put a 3.2 p4 @ stock in a Abit IC7 motherboard.and you will not see over 11.8volts. Yes it's stable and will run fine.

And actually if you read my link I switced to TTGI's 550's for a while. They were OK but no way to turn up the juice on the 3.3v line.
 
Tedinde said:
Enjoy the OCZ power supply review. A good Internet friend is reviewing one Liquid3d, and we have one coming "in house' for review @ Xtreme.
Click to expand...

:p LOL @ the mad shrimps review, they made a bunch of technical errors talking about the connectors, and even included my comments at the end of the review, but didn't go back and fix the errors on the article.

Can't wait to see how these PSUs stack up to a real PSU reivew ala SPCR, w/ dynamic load and an osciliscope. They've got good Tagan guts, and are very solidly made it appears.
 
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