Need Help choosing H20 Componects

[m1 grant]

Heres wat i got

-LiLi Pc65 case (might be getting a cube case later tho)
-X2 4200 Cpu
-Dfi Sli Dr Mobo
-4x512 OCZ plats
-Evga 7800 GTX
-WD2500KS HDD

I would like to cool as many ofthese components as possible, might want to overlook the HDD and the RAM however.

Keep in mind I hava a LiLi 60 so the space might be an issue, and Im not interested in an external solution.

However, if u guys think that it might be too much of a hassle to fit this into a LiLi then, I'm
actually interested in building a custum 14"squareX14"height cube case for my H20 rig and putting my Linux Workstation in my current Li Li

Please comment on my options

Thx in advance

 

[DFI Daishi]

please tell us your budget, and emphasis on looks vs performance. also, are you planning on moving to a SLI config in the future?

 

[Ghent915]

Ok. I'm from the performance side of the spectrum, so here is what I'd rec. (BTW: I have a LiLi Pc-65...so it CAN be done)

CPU: Swiftech Storm
Pump: Swiftech 655/DD D5
Tubing: 7/16" (look for 54047 on US Plastics IIRC)
GPU: Swiftech MC55
Res: Your pick really. I use the Swiftech HDPE.
Rad: Black Ice Pro 120x2

OR: Just get the Swiftech Apex kit, and toss in the MC55 block.

As for clearing the rad, you'll have to mod your case a wee bit. I cut my top to use an AquaComputer Evo rad. Putting both the fans and the rad inside the case make for a tight fit, and you WILL lose access to the 1st 5.25" bay. How you mount the rad is up to me.

As for my temps, I'm just cooling the CPU right now (no need to W/C my 6600GT when I'm upgrading in a few weeks). I've been pulling an even 37c under load. Load consists of F@H running @100% usage for 1week straight before measuring temps from the on mobo die.

Once again, this is from the Performance end of the spectrum. For budget/bling, others will be happy to pipe up in the forum.

-Ghent

 

[Erasmus354]

Budget setup :

Pump : CSP Mag, or Danner Mag 3, (or misc. aquarium pump)
Waterblock : Swiftech mcw6002
Radiator : 77' Bonneville (2-302) Heatercore
GPU : Swiftech MCW50 or DD Maze4
Tubing/Misc : Home Depot (including T-line in place of resevoir)

 

[thelostrican]

Budget setup :

Pump : CSP Mag, or Danner Mag 3, (or misc. aquarium pump)
Waterblock : Swiftech mcw6002
Radiator : 77' Bonneville (2-302) Heatercore
GPU : Swiftech MCW50 or DD Maze4
Tubing/Misc : Home Depot (including T-line in place of resevoir)

i know this is a budget setup, but Danner Mag 3=future leak.
77' Bonneville (2-302) Heatercore=might it need loud fans to perform? meaning high cfm?

 

[m1 grant]

im looking for sub 300 system, and i don't think ill be planning SLI withing 8 mo., by that time the new gen might be out anyway , so... i think ill stickw/ my 1 7800 for now.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

Heater cores perform very well with low speed fans as they are not restrictive to air flow like the BI radiators................

 

[m1 grant]

BTW i really would like to find a way to cool my DFI chiset better because its loud as a freakin' mower during anything above 75% cpu and if i could throw that into my WC system while im @ it tat would help greatly

 

[plywood99]

BTW i really would like to find a way to cool my DFI chiset better because its loud as a freakin' mower during anything above 75% cpu and if i could throw that into my WC system while im @ it tat would help greatly

Yah, one thing I really dig about my An8sli is the heatpipe cooling onthe chipset. No noisy little fan getting on my nerves.

Ok, back on topic, the setup Erasmus picked will give you very good performance for little money...

 

[J-Pepper]

BTW i really would like to find a way to cool my DFI chiset better because its loud as a freakin' mower during anything above 75% cpu and if i could throw that into my WC system while im @ it tat would help greatly

ATM the only way to cool the DFI chipset is with small bore equipment (Alphacool, Innovatek, Koolance and MIP)... I have personally seen an Innovatek block fitted along side a 6600GT, I have an Alphacool northbridge block fitted alongside my 6600GT and I have heard that a koolance block would fit by a koolance and DFI user (from these forums iirc). The MIP cooler is natively designed to be fitted onto the DFI chipset, but looks very restrictive to me. Even though small bore is labelled lo-flo, i'd rather not introduce too many un-neccessary restrictions if I don't have to.

If you do go small bore, then you can cool your RAM and HDDs at the same time.

If you go large bore (3/8" or 1/2") then you can really only cool your CPU and GPU only, afaik Danger Den has a HDD cooler (not sure if it's released yet) but I have heard many people say that the price is extortionate for what it is.

Large bore: CPU, GPU (maybe HDD too) cooling

Small bore: CPU, GPU, RAM, NB and HDD cooling

So, in summary... you can get better dedicated performance from large bore components, but you can effectively cool everything that gives off heat with a small bore setup.

The choice, as they say, is yours.

 

[DFI Daishi]

i know this is a budget setup, but Danner Mag 3=future leak.

over-tighten the barbs into the impeller housing, and i'll agree with this. i've been running with my danner for quite some time, and it doesn't leak.

 

[Erasmus354]

ATM the only way to cool the DFI chipset is with small bore equipment (Alphacool, Innovatek, Koolance and MIP)... I have personally seen an Innovatek block fitted along side a 6600GT, I have an Alphacool northbridge block fitted alongside my 6600GT and I have heard that a koolance block would fit by a koolance and DFI user (from these forums iirc). The MIP cooler is natively designed to be fitted onto the DFI chipset, but looks very restrictive to me. Even though small bore is labelled lo-flo, i'd rather not introduce too many un-neccessary restrictions if I don't have to.

If you do go small bore, then you can cool your RAM and HDDs at the same time.

If you go large bore (3/8" or 1/2") then you can really only cool your CPU and GPU only, afaik Danger Den has a HDD cooler (not sure if it's released yet) but I have heard many people say that the price is extortionate for what it is.

Large bore: CPU, GPU (maybe HDD too) cooling

Small bore: CPU, GPU, RAM, NB and HDD cooling

So, in summary... you can get better dedicated performance from large bore components, but you can effectively cool everything that gives off heat with a small bore setup.

The choice, as they say, is yours.

There is nothing stopping someone with a large bore primary setup from running a parallel loop with smaller bore blocks for things like the nb or harddrives. Those items dont need as much flow so you dont need to worry too much about balancing the flow in the parallel loop. Saying that large bore setups can only be used for cpu and gpu is a fallacy.

Also, while the DD harddrive cooler may be a bit overpriced for somepeoples likings...compared to many of the "small bore" equipment the price shouldn't come as much of a shocker.

 

[m1 grant]

3 questions to help u help me :

1. Can the 7800 be effectively cooled w/ a maze block and some ramsinks

2. Can the cpu, gpu, and nb, stated above, be effectively cooled w/ 1/4 bore and a 2.120 rad?

BTW im looking for nothing higher than a 2.5 ghz OC (~1.45V) on the X2, and nothing higher than a 500mhz OC on the 7800gtx

3. What precautions need to be taken to create a safe H20 rig

 

[Erasmus354]

3 questions to help u help me :

1. Can the 7800 be effectively cooled w/ a maze block and some ramsinks

2. Can the cpu, gpu, and nb, stated above, be effectively cooled w/ 1/4 bore and a 2.120 rad?

BTW im looking for nothing higher than a 2.5 ghz OC (~1.45V) on the X2, and nothing higher than a 500mhz OC on the 7800gtx

3. What precautions need to be taken to create a safe H20 rig

1. Yes

2. Yes

However, a 2.5Ghz OC on an X2 isn't a given by any means. Lots of X2's max out at 2.4 (They have one core that will do higher but one that stops at 2.4). I think that you are better off going with a 3/8 or 1/2" setup since you seem to be interested in performance. If you take off the DFI nb heatsink, remove the crappy thermal goop they use, lap the heatsink, and put it back on with some AS5 you can reduce your temps by at least 5C possibly 10C.

3. Do a proper leak test, at least 12 hours, preferrably 24. Make sure you use quality hose clamps, and make sure not to over tighten anything.

 

[J-Pepper]

There is nothing stopping someone with a large bore primary setup from running a parallel loop with smaller bore blocks for things like the nb or harddrives. Those items dont need as much flow so you dont need to worry too much about balancing the flow in the parallel loop. Saying that large bore setups can only be used for cpu and gpu is a fallacy.

Also, while the DD harddrive cooler may be a bit overpriced for somepeoples likings...compared to many of the "small bore" equipment the price shouldn't come as much of a shocker.

always is a fight with this guy!

Find me a large bore ram cooler and chipset cooler and i'll admit ignorance. I never said he couldn't use a parallel loop, but given the circumstances of him being new to this, is to so wrong to assume he'll start out on either a large bore or a small bore setup without messing about with mixing the two?

To you questions:

1. Yes.. it's fine, the GPU only blocks should actually offer better cooling performance than those all-in-one coolers. DDR3 ram chips run a lot cooler and require nothing more than a breeze.

2. Simply.. yes it can, but the cooling performance still depends on choice of blocks and pumps you go for. Personally i's recommend an Alphacool NexXos XP CPU block coupled with a DDC, and the other block up to you.

Not sure how hot (or cool) the X2 4200 runs at, but I have my X2 3800 running on a stock 3800+ (non-X2) heatsink at 2.5Ghz with a load of 46 deg (using speedfan and same motherboard as you). So any water will be ok.

3. Common sense really.

don't rush it, and I always recommend a leak test for a night to those new to water cooling. I personally never have.. but then I have had my fair share of leaks too... but I have had not one peice of hardware has die so far.

 

[DFI Daishi]

always is a fight with this guy!

Find me a large bore ram cooler and chipset cooler and i'll admit ignorance. I never said he couldn't use a parallel loop, but given the circumstances of him being new to this, is to so wrong to assume he'll start out on either a large bore or a small bore setup without messing about with mixing the two?

how is him pointing out that you are wrong, in what you had originally stated, and then going on to point out an effective work around a "fight"?

dude is being constructive, and you are knocking him for it.

as for a large bore chipset cooler, both DD and swiftech make them, however the current units have the "minor" problem of not fitting most NF4 SLI boards terribly well, in that they rarely are able to clear the video cards. as for ram cooling.......it's called a case fan, mate. no need to watercool it. i don't care how watercooled a system is, it should still have some reasonable case airflow.

 

[J-Pepper]

how is him pointing out that you are wrong, in what you had originally stated, and then going on to point out an effective work around a "fight"?

dude is being constructive, and you are knocking him for it.

as for a large bore chipset cooler, both DD and swiftech make them, however the current units have the "minor" problem of not fitting most NF4 SLI boards terribly well, in that they rarely are able to clear the video cards. as for ram cooling.......it's called a case fan, mate. no need to watercool it. i don't care how watercooled a system is, it should still have some reasonable case airflow.

Doh! another one

If you were to read the OP, this thread and setup is tailored to his setup... thus why I stated that large bore can only really be used to cool his CPU and GPU since no large bore chipset blocks will fit his DFI and no large bore ram coolers exist afiak.
And if you read his post, he specifically asked about ram and chipset water cooling... and so I replied to the OPs questions.

Ofcourse large bore chipset coolers exist, ofcourse you can cool the ram modules with a fan and with existing airflow... but i'm merely reply to the original OP... i never said that you can only cool the CPU and GPU with large bore in general... but in in the OPs situation, i am not wrong...

I could have told him about the all the various large bore chipset coolers around, only for him to get ideas they may work on his mobo and then buy one... that's not really called helpful advice is it, because they won't work on his board. If you guys call that advice...

 

[Erasmus354]

Doh! another one

If you were to read the OP, this thread and setup is tailored to his setup... thus why I stated that large bore can only really be used to cool his CPU and GPU since no large bore chipset blocks will fit his DFI and no large bore ram coolers exist afiak.
And if you read his post, he specifically asked about ram and chipset water cooling... and so I replied to the OPs questions.

Ofcourse large bore chipset coolers exist, ofcourse you can cool the ram modules with a fan and with existing airflow... but i'm merely reply to the original OP... i never said that you can only cool the CPU and GPU with large bore in general... but in in the OPs situation, i am not wrong...

I could have told him about the all the various large bore chipset coolers around, only for him to get ideas they may work on his mobo and then buy one... that's not really called helpful advice is it, because they won't work on his board. If you guys call that advice...

Yes you cannot use a large bore chipset block on the DFI board, thanks to size constraints as a result of the design of the board. However, in all of your posts thus far you are conveniently ignoring the simple fact that you can easily use a small bore chipset block in a large bore loop. As to ram cooling...well watercooling the ram is about the most pointless component in a system to watercool (of all the ones with retail watercooling solutions available). So that is pretty much a moot point.

Now please stop trying to defend your FUD, or shooting other peoples constructive posts.

 

[penguin]

With a decent heatspreader and good airflow, nobody needs to watercool their RAM. Heck, most people, even most overclockers, don't need to watercool their chipsets.

 

[DFI Daishi]

I could have told him about the all the various large bore chipset coolers around, only for him to get ideas they may work on his mobo and then buy one... that's not really called helpful advice is it, because they won't work on his board. If you guys call that advice...

you know, i could have SWORN that you just explicity stated that you were unaware of any big bore chipset coolers, and that readers should find you one........i must be mis-reading.

i didn't say that they were suited to the present application, or that anyone should go out and get one. i simply pointed out a little tidbit of knowledge that you seemed to indicate that you might want to be made aware of, and that it might be good for you to know about.

me, i just use a good air cooler on my chipset, and have case fans that move air past the ramsinks on my vid card, and the passive sink on my chipset. it seems to keep things pretty cool, at a reasonable noise level. perhaps that OP can find something that he can trim down, so suit his own awkwardly placed chipset, rather than complicate his water loop.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

For all those small bore blocks that have G1/4 inch ports, there are 12mm barbs out there that can be used with a big bore system if someone was so inclined to cool the memory or NB. I see no reason to water cool them myself, but the option is there if you had a mind to do it.

 

[J-Pepper]

The DFI board has lousy chipset placements... i'm not sure if you guys have used a DFI nF4 SLI board but fitting anything other an the OEM HSF or a specifically made one is a nightmare, even a simple fan-less heatsink would pose a problem.

The waterblock I use is an Alphacool one and at 15mm thick from top to bottom it's already at the 'thinnest nb block' end of the market and that only *just* fits.

notice that if you look at my card... it's actually sitting on the waterblock itself. It's not because I just gave random advice... I have experience with this stuff.

edit: what does FUD stand for?

 

[Bio-Hazard]

The Ultra D is the same exact way, the video card comes so close the stock cooling fan that a Arctic Cooling VGA cooler will hit the thing. Just another reason to leave the thing alone , turn down the high pitched fan and let a 120mm low speed fan do the work.

 

[DFI Daishi]

The DFI board has lousy chipset placements... i'm not sure if you guys have used a DFI nF4 SLI board but fitting anything other an the OEM HSF or a specifically made one is a nightmare, even a simple fan-less heatsink would pose a problem.

i have not used one, however i used to spend quite a bit of time on DFI-street, before i finally gave up on my old board overclocking at all, and i am well aware of the problems with chipset-videocard clearance on that board.

you can't fit most aftermarket heatsinks on there, as they are shipped, however it is quite feasible to trim down a heatsink so that the card fits into a slot in the cooler. it isn't without it's own share of work, however a bit of time and work with hand tools can get you there, if you want the improved cooling, reduced noise, and simplified watercooling loop that you can get out of it.

edit: would you mind linking that pic over in the "post your DFI NF4 waterblock pics" thread?

 

[Erasmus354]

The DFI board has lousy chipset placements... i'm not sure if you guys have used a DFI nF4 SLI board but fitting anything other an the OEM HSF or a specifically made one is a nightmare, even a simple fan-less heatsink would pose a problem.

The waterblock I use is an Alphacool one and at 15mm thick from top to bottom it's already at the 'thinnest nb block' end of the market and that only *just* fits.

notice that if you look at my card... it's actually sitting on the waterblock itself. It's not because I just gave random advice... I have experience with this stuff.

edit: what does FUD stand for?

Yes I do have a DFI nF4 board. It isn't just the DFI board with lousy placement, in fact it is almost every NF4 board. The only one that doesn't is the Asus board.

FUD stands for "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt". It is used to discredit opponents in the hopes that they chose your product. Whether that be by spreading rumors, or simply white lies.

 

[Top Nurse]

edit: what does FUD stand for?

It stands for Fear, Uncertainity, and Doubt. Seems it was first coined by some business people a while back. I figured it was just another term for political coniving that has been going on for thousands of years. The people who accuse others of FUD are also using the same FUD in their arguments so who cares?

 

[m1 grant]

Thanks for the replies, but in terms of NB cooling I'm not really concerned with performance as I rarely push the voltage above even 1.6 on the chipset. What drives me nuts is the noise the thing makes, so I figure watercooling it would leave me with a near silent comp. as the loudest component in the case would then become my quiet 120mm fans. That or the pump, which brings up another good question. Which pump performs well while still being quiet. Or can have a really quiet operation mode, with a higher powered mode. Also is there any other way other than H20 cooling the NB for the sake of silence.

 

[Bio-Hazard]

Thanks for the replies, but in terms of NB cooling I'm not really concerned with performance as I rarely push the voltage above even 1.6 on the chipset. What drives me nuts is the noise the thing makes, so I figure watercooling it would leave me with a near silent comp. as the loudest component in the case would then become my quiet 120mm fans. That or the pump, which brings up another good question. Which pump performs well while still being quiet. Or can have a really quiet operation mode, with a higher powered mode. Also is there any other way other than H20 cooling the NB for the sake of silence.

I better jump in here first I guess, from ALL the reviews and the OPINIONS of the top people in the feild right now, it's the Swiftech MCP-655/Laing D5 pump. It's the best well rounded performance pump on the normal retail market. Besides having top performance, it can also be tuned to fit you or your systems needs.

"In response to the overwhelming demand for a quieter MCP655, we are proud to introduce the new MCP655 pump, which features several key improvements:

Considerably reduced audible operating noise: the high pitch frequency of the MCP655 is now eliminated thanks to a new chipset controller,
Head and flow characteristics have slightly improved in the midrange,
A potentiometer allows to adjust the pumps speed from 4800 rpm down to 1800 rpm. At 1800 rpm, the pump is virtually silent. This allows users to tune the pump performance/noise ratio to their particular preference. "

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp655.asp

 

[Erasmus354]

m1_grant : I suggest you try lapping the chipset heatsink that is on there right now. The improved thermal transference from lapping and using decent thermal paste like AS5 reduces the temperatures enough so that the fan doesn't rev up very often.

 

[J-Pepper]

How about the good ol' Eheim 1250?

The D5 sure does better it in performance, but not to such a large degree that performance is affected that much. But the point is that even the new quieter D5 won't be able to beat the Eheim 1250 for quietness. But that's the only plus point for the Eheim, in all other respects, the D5 is probably better.

 

[penguin]

How about the good ol' Eheim 1250?

The D5 sure does better it in performance, but not to such a large degree that performance is affected that much. But the point is that even the new quieter D5 won't be able to beat the Eheim 1250 for quietness. But that's the only plus point for the Eheim, in all other respects, the D5 is probably better.

Don't forget about eheim's legendary reliability

 

[Erasmus354]

The Eheim 1250 is a great pump, it has two major detractors though. It is rather large, and it does not run on 12V DC, which means that you probably want to spend another 15$ or so on a PCI relay card, which makes the price about the same as pumps like the D5 and DDC.

 

[Top Nurse]

"In response to the overwhelming demand for a quieter MCP655, we are proud to introduce the new MCP655 pump, which features several key improvements:

Considerably reduced audible operating noise: the high pitch frequency of the MCP655 is now eliminated thanks to a new chipset controller,
Head and flow characteristics have slightly improved in the midrange,
A potentiometer allows to adjust the pumps speed from 4800 rpm down to 1800 rpm. At 1800 rpm, the pump is virtually silent. This allows users to tune the pump performance/noise ratio to their particular preference. "

Reduced audible operating noise? Is like a quiet jet engine? Still loud, but quieter? So what reduction in flow is associated with dropping the RPM from 4800 to 1800 RPM? So if a variable flow Aquastream is not worth anything as a feature why would it be a positive feature on a Swiftech pump? Get the Eheim

 

[Bio-Hazard]

Read and learn...........if that's possible................

That's about the 3rd or 4th time I posted the review link, maybe you should read it before running your uneducated mouth.

http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-01.html

I can piss harder than the Eheim..............

 

[Top Nurse]

I can piss harder than the Eheim..............

I thought you were going to quit saying stuff like that after our last conversation?

Well I carefully went through that "review." Seems much like the reviews you decry so much about other review sites using. The term silent and quiet is used quite often in that review, but no mention of a Db rating nor any use of a sound meter to determine the degree of quietness. Thus my analogy of a quiet jet engine was spot on. Also the comparisons of other pumps were limited to 12 V testing and not about comparing the flows of the pump at the lower settings.

 

[SpoogeMonkey]

I wonder if this logic and reasoning is used at work? You have cancer!!! And your ass is dead in 3 months!!! Don't question me, I have a badge. But if you buy what I'm selling, you will live! Long time! Forever! No problem! Badges?! I don't need no stinkin badges!

If the d5 is a jet engine, then the Aqua whatever is a dozen F-4's taking off at full AB. The d5 is about as intrusive as a bottle of ketchup farting inside your refrigerator.

 

[DFI Daishi]

If the d5 is a jet engine, then the Aqua whatever is a dozen F-4's taking off at full AB. The d5 is about as intrusive as a bottle of ketchup farting inside your refrigerator.

they are both quiet pumps, dude.

at the highest setting the d5 is probably a bit louder than the 1250. at setting 4, it is probably quieter, and still moves more water in a typical loop.

if you want to make an argument, make it well. TN will pick you apart if you don't back up what you say, and i don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

just keep things on-topic and well researched. it helps that cause of all of those who are performance-oriented around here.

 

[SpoogeMonkey]

they are both quiet pumps, dude.

at the highest setting the d5 is probably a bit louder than the 1250. at setting 4, it is probably quieter, and still moves more water in a typical loop.

Exactly my point. They're both quiet, so I don't see why she has to continually bash something that she doesn't own, and isn't AC,Innova,etc.

Btw I do have a mcp sitting right next to me leak testing in an open/empty case, all I hear is my psu....so the d5 is not a jet engine.

 

[DFI Daishi]

Exactly my point. They're both quiet, so I don't see why she has to continually bash something that she doesn't own, and isn't AC,Innova,etc.

Btw I do have a mcp sitting right next to me leak testing in an open/empty case, all I hear is my psu....so the d5 is not a jet engine.

and if you had said that in the first place, she would not have a leg to stand on, and i would not have made that last post.

 

[Erasmus354]

Actually the D5 at the highest setting does make a bit of noise, if you back it down to 3 (not 4) then it is nearly silent, and at 3 it still moves a lot of water with great head pressure. Not to mention it is still smaller than the Eheim.

TN : I seem to recall the argument with the adjustable flow on the Aquastream is that it does not justify the high price. If you try to say the price is justified because you can hook it up to the Aquaero and monitor/adjust the speed, then why not get the D5 for less money, will perform better, and offer every feature except monitoring of the pump (which is moot anyways because computers have temp safeguards nowadays).

The argument was never that pump speed variation was a useless feature, merely that it did not justify the scandalous amount of money AC wants to charge for an Eheim 1046 with a few little fancy features available cheaper on competitors.