I want to work in IT. I currently have no formal education. I dropped out of college after 1 year and I don't want to go back . Would getting a A+ and network+ certification be enough for me to get a low level job in this industry? Like at a help desk or as network/desktop technician with the ability to move up with more experience and education.
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Need career advice
- Thread starter T-ReV7
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Vito_Corleone
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A+ could help you get a helpdesk or tech job. Skip the N+ and go for the CCENT, then CCNA, or move onto MS certs, depending on what you want to do in the future.
experience > knowledge > certs > degree
That's typically how I've seen it in the real world. Also, who you know is very important as well.
experience > knowledge > certs > degree
That's typically how I've seen it in the real world. Also, who you know is very important as well.
If you aren't even willing to see college through to the end why would you be willing to see certifications through to the end?I want to work in IT. I currently have no formal education. I dropped out of college after 1 year and I don't want to go back.
Vito_Corleone
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If you aren't even willing to see college through to the end why would you be willing to see certifications through to the end?
wat
You think the A+ is going to take him four years? I don't know too many certs that would take as long as a degree.
Red Squirrel
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Certs will be MUCH harder than college. I finished college, but never did any certs (I'd have to get on that, I just don't have the will power to do all that studying for something that expires in a few years) so what I'd do is try to land an entry level job at a company that has room to go up, and you may have a chance of moving up regardless. IMO knowledge and experience is what should really be looked at. Education just means you can learn stuff by heart. That's really all it is. Most if all of the stuff on tests is stuff you can easily look up in the real world.
Things school does not teach you is proper client etiquette, the methods to solve specific problems that show up (such as certain viruses etc). These are things you'll pickup as you go in the real world and these things change all the time. New technologies, new versions of existing technologies etc.. Keep up with this stuff and you may have a decent chance.
Of course some companies only look at education/certs so it will be hard moving up in those.
Things school does not teach you is proper client etiquette, the methods to solve specific problems that show up (such as certain viruses etc). These are things you'll pickup as you go in the real world and these things change all the time. New technologies, new versions of existing technologies etc.. Keep up with this stuff and you may have a decent chance.
Of course some companies only look at education/certs so it will be hard moving up in those.
Vito_Corleone
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I can't imagine college being easier than certs. Just the time spent working towards a degree is much more than the majority of certs should take.
Many, many, many companies care about certs. Maybe not once you're hired, but they're used to gauge a candidate before they'll speak to him. Certs/education and the experience on your resume get you the interview. Knowledge and how you can apply your experience get you the job.
Many, many, many companies care about certs. Maybe not once you're hired, but they're used to gauge a candidate before they'll speak to him. Certs/education and the experience on your resume get you the interview. Knowledge and how you can apply your experience get you the job.
Certs will be MUCH harder than college. I finished college, but never did any certs (I'd have to get on that, I just don't have the will power to do all that studying for something that expires in a few years) so what I'd do is try to land an entry level job at a company that has room to go up, and you may have a chance of moving up regardless. IMO knowledge and experience is what should really be looked at. Education just means you can learn stuff by heart. That's really all it is. Most if all of the stuff on tests is stuff you can easily look up in the real world.
Things school does not teach you is proper client etiquette, the methods to solve specific problems that show up (such as certain viruses etc). These are things you'll pickup as you go in the real world and these things change all the time. New technologies, new versions of existing technologies etc.. Keep up with this stuff and you may have a decent chance.
Of course some companies only look at education/certs so it will be hard moving up in those.
Don't want to study for something that lasts a few years? That's a really bad attitude. To really excel in IT you need to constantly learn. The time to get certs isn't when looking for a new job...it's far easier to choose your career goals, look at the certs that help, and just maintain those. Collecting certs is bad but so is ignoring them.
And while some colleges may teach you specific things a good program will be very beneficial in other areas. Often you learn things you wouldn't by yourself. Many IT people need to learn more about proper project management but don't. They may have to for a degree. That's one good thing, a more rounded education.
Vito, I am by no means a poster child for a college education as I'm still trying to fit my BA degree into my busy schedule and I've been off and on for about 6 years now.wat
You think the A+ is going to take him four years? I don't know too many certs that would take as long as a degree.
I do however have tons of certs.
My point was not about the time spent doing either college vs certs, my point had more to do with the fact that if the OP doesn't have the resolve to go to college (even for an associates) and has an attitude such that he isn't even willing to continue going then how can he expect to have any kind of different attitude towards certs. Certs/College are essentially the same thing. Studying to gain knowledge to get a piece of paper that shows you passed a series of tests.
If you can't do one, why can you do another?
Vito_Corleone
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Well, speaking from personal experience, I think one can follow through on certs more easily than a degree. My situation is a bit different, I guess. In that I never started a degree, just jumped into the rat race. I can say though, that the idea of going to school for four years it very daunting. However, I have quite a few certs. To me, certs are easier and more convenient. I can study/learn and take tests at my own pace. I don't have to show up to classes or follow a schedule, and I can do certs as quickly or slowly as I want.
Not that I disagree with your point though. If someone is lazy, they're probably going to be lazy all around. My only point is that certs can be attained more quickly and more easily than a four-year degree.
Not that I disagree with your point though. If someone is lazy, they're probably going to be lazy all around. My only point is that certs can be attained more quickly and more easily than a four-year degree.
A+ will pretty much guarantee you a job on any of the desks I have worked on. For a few of the larger call center desks, breathing seems to be the only real required skill.
Pretty much my path into IT was this, started out just doing work for friends and family (building PCs, setting up their routers, cleaning viruses etc) when I was 13 ish, got my A+ at about 16 and got a job at Staples as just an office machines associate, moved to Easy Tech position, was there for about 1.5 years, got a job at a VOIP provider's help desk, was there for about 6 months until I got bored of that job and moved to a local hosting company's NOC. At this time I got my CCNA (class offered by my highschool, class was free, you had to pay for the test, took it and passed). Was basically an intern for the first 4-6 months of that job before they finally let me start doing real work on servers. Was there for a total of 1 year (they paid for my MCSE) when I left for college and worked part time at a call center, left school for personal reasons ans started working full time at the help desk, got promoted to 2nd level and started running more then just a file server and a couple game servers at home. Once confident in ESX, hyper V, Exchange 2007, and server 2008 I got a couple contract jobs helping local businesses do physical to virtual migrations. One of those contracts led to a job offer which I took (the current MSP I work for). They put me on a bunch of P2V migrations because I had the most experience out of all their engineers. They put me through classes for MSITP Hyper V and VMware VCP, however our project load got to be so much that I never actually took the tests. One day after a question regarding the security of someone's server that I broke into sitting in the meeting with the client they found out that I could do the security side too (former life as a black hat). Now that I balance between MSP and security they are offering my Sec+ and CISSP if / when I have the time for them.
So as you can see getting into IT doesn't really require formal education, it just requires good networking, and knowing what the hell you are doing. The past two summers that I have been with the company we have picked up interns. Out of the pile of about 25 resumes we got this year there were only 4 candidates that we actually considered because they actually knew what the hell they were doing and weren't just banking on the fact that they go to RIT to get them in the door. Getting your A+ Net+ CCNA and MCP are all good and relatively easy / cheap to get, and can really help you get your foot in the door, so I would recommend them, but don't kill yourself over certs. Also don't spend too much time in one location when you are starting out. Any more then 2 years on the same helpdesk and your skillset gets pigeon holed to the needs and software / hardware of that customer. By moving every year or 2 for the first 5 years until you become a sysadmin, or network engineer or whatever it is you want to do ultimately you keep yourself fresh and end up learning a lot more then just staying in a call center doing over the phone work.
Pretty much my path into IT was this, started out just doing work for friends and family (building PCs, setting up their routers, cleaning viruses etc) when I was 13 ish, got my A+ at about 16 and got a job at Staples as just an office machines associate, moved to Easy Tech position, was there for about 1.5 years, got a job at a VOIP provider's help desk, was there for about 6 months until I got bored of that job and moved to a local hosting company's NOC. At this time I got my CCNA (class offered by my highschool, class was free, you had to pay for the test, took it and passed). Was basically an intern for the first 4-6 months of that job before they finally let me start doing real work on servers. Was there for a total of 1 year (they paid for my MCSE) when I left for college and worked part time at a call center, left school for personal reasons ans started working full time at the help desk, got promoted to 2nd level and started running more then just a file server and a couple game servers at home. Once confident in ESX, hyper V, Exchange 2007, and server 2008 I got a couple contract jobs helping local businesses do physical to virtual migrations. One of those contracts led to a job offer which I took (the current MSP I work for). They put me on a bunch of P2V migrations because I had the most experience out of all their engineers. They put me through classes for MSITP Hyper V and VMware VCP, however our project load got to be so much that I never actually took the tests. One day after a question regarding the security of someone's server that I broke into sitting in the meeting with the client they found out that I could do the security side too (former life as a black hat). Now that I balance between MSP and security they are offering my Sec+ and CISSP if / when I have the time for them.
So as you can see getting into IT doesn't really require formal education, it just requires good networking, and knowing what the hell you are doing. The past two summers that I have been with the company we have picked up interns. Out of the pile of about 25 resumes we got this year there were only 4 candidates that we actually considered because they actually knew what the hell they were doing and weren't just banking on the fact that they go to RIT to get them in the door. Getting your A+ Net+ CCNA and MCP are all good and relatively easy / cheap to get, and can really help you get your foot in the door, so I would recommend them, but don't kill yourself over certs. Also don't spend too much time in one location when you are starting out. Any more then 2 years on the same helpdesk and your skillset gets pigeon holed to the needs and software / hardware of that customer. By moving every year or 2 for the first 5 years until you become a sysadmin, or network engineer or whatever it is you want to do ultimately you keep yourself fresh and end up learning a lot more then just staying in a call center doing over the phone work.
I'd yank out "knowledge", sadly. Most places where certs matter, knowledge does not. One of the main reasons I got my certs was because the place I was working at the time gave more weight to the retards with certs than those of us with the knowledge. It's a common symptom; people with letters after their names are more important than those without. I don't like it, but I finally got over my revulsion long enough to get my own letters.A+ could help you get a helpdesk or tech job. Skip the N+ and go for the CCENT, then CCNA, or move onto MS certs, depending on what you want to do in the future.
experience > knowledge > certs > degree
That's typically how I've seen it in the real world. Also, who you know is very important as well.
A+ is ok ( same with network+ ), and might be just what you need to get your foot in the door. The problem with the more advanced certs is that help desk doesn't need them; you are left over qualified for your ideal position, but whoa fully under qualified for the higher positions. My best advice? Start studying. Get the A+, then move on to the ccna, then MS certs. Only list relevant certs on your resume.
Red Squirrel
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Don't want to study for something that lasts a few years? That's a really bad attitude. To really excel in IT you need to constantly learn. The time to get certs isn't when looking for a new job...it's far easier to choose your career goals, look at the certs that help, and just maintain those. Collecting certs is bad but so is ignoring them.
.
My problem is when I get home from work the last thing I want to do is study, I rather work on personal stuff. Bad, I know, but that's just me. Most certs require a good 3 or so years of straight studying and learning so much crap by heart given you have to take like 10 tests for one cert (depends on which one etc).
Vito_Corleone
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I'd yank out "knowledge", sadly. Most places where certs matter, knowledge does not. One of the main reasons I got my certs was because the place I was working at the time gave more weight to the retards with certs than those of us with the knowledge. It's a common symptom; people with letters after their names are more important than those without. I don't like it, but I finally got over my revulsion long enough to get my own letters.
A+ is ok ( same with network+ ), and might be just what you need to get your foot in the door. The problem with the more advanced certs is that help desk doesn't need them; you are left over qualified for your ideal position, but whoa fully under qualified for the higher positions. My best advice? Start studying. Get the A+, then move on to the ccna, then MS certs. Only list relevant certs on your resume.
I disagree. I don't think companies who value certs are all bad. Most of the time, the certs are for HR and possibly the hiring manager. Bureaucrats need some kind of measurement to determine if someone is worthy. This tends to be certs. But those only get you the interview. The knowledge displayed in that interview is what should get you the job (assuming your personality doesn't hinder you, ie you're a douche).
Of course, there are crappy companies with crappy people who don't know anything themselves and use certifications to validate candidates' knowledge levels.
I wouldn't go beyond entry level certificates without getting work experience. You're not going to be able to land an administration or engineer job with just the certificate. That's when you need to combine studying with work experience.
The amount of time A+ will take you depends a lot on the knowledge you already have, some people will only need to study for three months, others more. You can use practice exam software to get a rough idea of where you are knowledge wise. I would also consider a client certification at the same time, right now the only one available is Windows 7. (Well Vista is available but that's self explanatory) Nowadays support means hardware, software and networking.
I'd recommend keeping an open mind about which area of IT you want to work in before diving in with studying and plans to only apply in that sub-field. You'll learn a lot about what you like once you start actually working.
The amount of time A+ will take you depends a lot on the knowledge you already have, some people will only need to study for three months, others more. You can use practice exam software to get a rough idea of where you are knowledge wise. I would also consider a client certification at the same time, right now the only one available is Windows 7. (Well Vista is available but that's self explanatory) Nowadays support means hardware, software and networking.
I'd recommend keeping an open mind about which area of IT you want to work in before diving in with studying and plans to only apply in that sub-field. You'll learn a lot about what you like once you start actually working.