Need advice on new rig

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donkey33

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Messages
226
Upgrading my PC after a long time using the old one. Current system is an AMD Athlon 2800+/Asus A7N8X-E/GeForce FX 5900 XT with 1 GB RAM. Screen is a 19 inch Viewsonic G90+ CRT. Max res of 1920 x 1440. Only running XP Home too.

Majority of the time I just use the net, a bit of photoshop, a small bit of video processing (to ipod format) and slight slight gaming (WoW, Warcraft 3, strategy games, old NBA Lives).

I mainly want it to run well for general tasks and if I did want to play the odd new game, at least run on reasonable settings. Nothing special as I probably won't be playing any PC games bar a few older ones.

Don't need crossfire, firewire, don't know what RAID or SLI is so guess I don't need that.I'm in Australia so don't worry about prices as I'll look them up here. Need info on the parts.

I want this to last me at least 5 years too. Just an idea but might be too powerful or not powerful enough.

CPU - Intel E8400 (Would a lesser like E5200 or E7300 be enough? Or even a higher end AMD??)
MB - Was thinking Asus P5Q-SE or the GB EP45-DS3-L but don't know a lot about MB and their features so maybe that is overkill?
RAM - 3 GB maybe as using XP Home. 1 x 2 GB stick and 1 x 1 GB stick
HDD - Don't mind brand but at least 500 GB and up to 750. I think 1 TB is too expensive still here.
GPU - Undecided here. Either a 9600GT, 9800GT, 9800GTX or a HD 4850. Highest I will go is the 4850. Knowing my gaming needs, I need advice here on what is overkill.
CASE & PSU - Depending on what is above, either the Coolmaster CAC-T05 which comes with a 460W or the Antec NSK6580 (not sure of what PSU it comes with but it's at least 400W I think).
OPTICAL - Pioneer 215/216BK is an easy choice here for a burner.

TOTAL - In Australian, a variation of the above can range anywhere from $500 AUD to $1,000 AUD. I won't spend over $1,000.

My main concern is over or under kill ( a word?). Knowing my needs, I don't want to get parts I don't need but on the other hand, I don't want to have to upgrade in 2 years because something isn't compatible anymore. I need a balance.

Any tips are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
The first question that requires answering is do you overclock. Don't answer maybe, because these boards will convince you to overclock (and why shouldn't we, its free performance with no downturns, just requires a little time investment).

The power supplies that are included with cases are at best half-assed. Coolermaster and Antec both have semi-reputable power supplies so I would hope the power supplies they include can hold true to their claims, but I wouldn't put it past em. If your looking for a power supply on the cheap an FSP or Silverstone is recomendable. For $70 you can get a corsair 450W. The tangible (for lack of a better word and brain malfunction after my calculus final) advantage of the more expensive units are performance underbrownout conditions, Vdroop, and ripple. All three mean your PC lasts longer. Dont go too nuts about that though, If a power supply holds to ATX specs, even if just barely, the powersupply will keep the rest of your PC runnning for 5 or 6 years. When a surge hits a unit, generally speaking the more expensive ones tend to kill themselves, the cheaper ones take the rest of the computer with them.

For todays affordable PC you want to get a ram config thats a multiple of 2, to run in dual channel. The reason is you want to be able to run dual channel. The thing about that is that 4GB requires Vista 64, to Dell and Alienware's dismay. Vista 64 means you need to update your service to determine if your users are using 64bit or 32bit, support all the calls associated with one version working and the other not, split your product line etc etc. IIRC dell was at one point selling PC's with 2 1.5GB sticks. HP has actually switched 90% of their production line over to Vista 64. Even if you get a system with less than 4GB of memory your liable to get Vista 64. Looks like (finally) mainstream is moving to 64bit OS's. You definatly wanna go with a 64bit OS and 4GB of memory. Vista under 64bit is like riding in a hummer over a mountain side. you wouldn't believe how jaggad the tarrain is under you and you cant believe how smooth the ride is. I would suggest a 4GB kit (2X2) of DDR2 800. They go for as cheap as $40 US, and I suspect you can find one for maybe $70 or $80 AUS. I wouldn't worry about the brand so long as its something big. They all offer a reputable warranty.

The 640GB drives are the best, any of them, and it sounds like they fit your size needs perfectly. They're the best drives because of the platter density. Each platter is 320GB, where as in a 500 or 750 gig drive, each platter is 250GB. The more dense the platter the more data can be read and written to the drive in any given ammount of time (asuming the same RPM).

The DS3L from gigabyte is their typical stripped down version of any given chipset. If your not intrested in raid (allows for some nifty hard drive configs) or SLI/Crossfire (allows for multiple graphics cards in the same system to improve performance), the DS3L is a good idea.

I'd like to see what the total build cost comes out to for you without including the GPU before making any recomendations. If your building from 1 site entirely, if you could like I'll put a list together myself.

edit: sooner or later your probably going to want firewire though, so I would get a case that supports it in the frontpannel.
 
Don't worry dude, I will deliver a sick ass build that will meet your needs. Let's go with this solid build dude. Order this from umart online.

Case/Psu - Antec Sonata III MiniTower Case - Piano BlackW/500W PSU for $184
Model #: SONATAIII

Cpu - Intel CORE 2 Q6600/2.4Ghz/2x4MB/1066FSB/LGA775 for $309
Model #: BX80562Q6600

Mobo - Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L P45+ICH10 DDR2 1200 1600MHz PCI-E 2.0 SATAII GLAN 8Ch Audio ATX Ultra Durable for $189
Model #: GA-EP45-DS3L

Memory - G.Skill DDR2 4G(2x2G)PC6400 800Mhz(F2-6400CL5D-4GBNT) for $72
Model # F2-6400CL5D-4GBNT

Video Card - MSI ATI R4670 512M DDR3 Dual DVI Dual Link DVI for $119
Model # R4670-2D512/D3

HDD - Western Digital 640G SATAII 7200 rpm HDD (WD6400AAKS) for $99
Model #: WD6400AAKS

Optical - Samsung 22X DVDRW Black SATA Vista Support(SH-S223F/BEBN) for $27
Model #: SH-S223F/BEBN

Boom ---> $999
 
HG you an aussie?

Thats a good build. Cant comment on the price since I know you guys get screwed over pretty bad down under, but it looks good to me.
 
Thanks guys. Some valuable info there. UMart is not that bad also. The other place that is the cheapest here is MSY. Parts list here (http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf)

Now, going with the 4 GB means I have to get Vista which I wasn't sure I wanted to do. I mean I do want it but it'll blow the cost out another $300 or so. Money I could spend elsewhere, etc.

Also, a quad core over dual? The Q6600 better than say the E8400?

With firewire/crossfire/SLI, I don't see me needing that for the time being. Especially given the GPU I'm running. I can just upgrade the GPU, etc. Firewire maybe but I see no need at the moment so the DS3L should be fine.

Also, no o'cing at all. not interested so just stock for me :)
 
Well.. you don't have to jump on Vista right away just to see the full 4gig RAM. But, at least you will have 3.25gigs of RAM in Win XP which is still plenty. I mentioned Q6600 Quad over a Dual Core E8400 cpu because it looks like you are not the type to upgrade that often especially coming from an AMD Athlon XP 2800+. Therefore, a Q6600 Quad will be more future proof in the longrun especially since you mentioned you wanted it to last 5 years. So, from the budget you listed and the components I just listed, this is the way to go.
 
Yeah, fair point. If I did in fact want to play a reasonable release game, having a quad core wouldn't hamper me would it I hear the dual's are better for gaming?

Also, what about the Antec NSK 6580 case? It's cheaper with a 430W Earthwatts PSU. Would that be ok to save a bit of coin there?

Videocard I'm still unsure on. I'm sure everything out there at the moment beats an FX 5900 XT so it's either that ATI card or an NVidia equivalent? 9600GT or even 9800GT or is that overkill for the gaming I do?
 
Dual core processors are "better" than quad cores in gaming because most games aren't optimized to use multiple cores. Thus it becomes a competition of clock speed versus clock speed... and dual cores are normally clocked higher than their quad core "equivalents."

The Antec NSK 6580 is a good alternative to the Sonata III (at least, for your needs). The Antec Earthwatts line has the only power supplies worth keeping in a case/PSU bundle.

If you could get the 9800GT for around the same price as HG found his HD4670 for, go ahead and get it. (IIRC, the 9600GT is the NVIDIA "equivalent" to the HD4670, but the HD4670 is based off of newer technology, so I suggest sticking with that card.) For longevity's sake, you may want to look at the HD4850 as well, but only if it isn't that much more (<$50 AUS) than the 9800GT.
 
The kernel isn't smart when you give it more than it can handle, give a 32bit OS 4GB of system ram and wierd stuff can happen.

And I've been told I'm a vista fanboy, and I've been running Vista 64 since march of 07 and I havn't had any real problems with it yet, infact I enjoy it more than XP and whenever I go back to XP the little things vista does for me that XP doesnt start to piss me off.

And if your not overclocking I'd actually suggest an AMD phenom. Motherboards with comprable feature sets at cheaper prices and simlar performance processors cheaper. the 9950 is very similar to the Q6600, but you can save yourself $100 and sacrifice maybe 15% CPU performance by going with a Q9550.
 
Yeah, I think I'll stick to XP for now though with 2 GB of RAM. I'll upgrade that when I get Vista.

I just read that with stock cooling, you can o/c the E8400 to 3GHz. Is quad core really going to take off within 5 years or will dual core last that long as I could get the E8400 for cheaper than the Q6600 (similar price to a phenom.

See what I'm like, lol? I chop and change and can't make my mind up on anything. All this over a few hundred one way or the other :)
 
How about this which is totally different but more so on the AMD side given I most likely won't be o'cing.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ AM2
Motherboard: Gigabyte M61PME-S2 or Asus M2N68-VM
RAM: DDR2-800 Kingston 2GB
HDD: W.D. SATA 640G
GPU: Not sure yet
Case & PSU: CoolerMaster CAC-T05 (w/ CM Extreme 460W) or Antec NSK 6580
Optical Drive:SATA Pioneer 216

The CPU and MB combined is the same price as only an E8400/Q6600 for example. Money saved there but there must be a reason the AMD plus MB is that much cheaper. Or I could go a phenom x 4 9550.
 
I wouldn't go with that AMD X2 6000+ AM2. Slow compared to the Q6600 at 2.4ghz even if that AMD dual core cpu has a higher clock speed. Plus, it's not as future proof as a quad cpu. 5 years is along time and by then more and more program applications should utilize the multi-cores. I still stand with a Intel Quad cpu. I would stick with the HD4670 video card. This is plenty for your needs. You are obviously not much of a gamer from what you just mentioned in the OP. Since some items came back in stock, I made some adjustments again and have included a faster Core 2 Quad cpu. This should be solid. As far as 4gigs in XP Home, I will just chance it and have it run 4 gigs of ram in XP home. I don't think you will be on XP home O/S for the next 5 years right? If there is a problem with the 4gigs in XP home which I think most likely you will be fine then just pop a stick out and have it run on only 2gigs single channel ram for now for stability. Might as well buy the whole 4gigs now while it's cheap. Can't gurantee DDR2 ram will be cheaper. Look at the cost of DDR ram modules, it costs more than DDR2.
Let's go with this:

Case/Psu - Antec NSK6580 Solution Series ATX MiniTower for $129
Model #: NSK6580

Cpu - Intel CORE 2 QUAD Q9400/2.66GHz/6MB CACHE for $420
Model #: BX80580Q9400

Mobo - MSI P43-NEO-F Intel P43 Chipset 1600MHz DDR2 1066 PCI-E x16 SATAII RAID GLAN USB2.0 8-Ch Audio ATX for $120
Model #: P43-NEO-F

Memory - Kingston DDR2 4(2x2G)PC6400 800Mhz - KVR800D2N5K2/4G for $63
Model #: KVR800D2N5K2/4G

Video Card - MSI ATI R4670 512M DDR3 Dual DVI Dual Link DVI for $119
Model # R4670-2D512/D3

HDD - Western Digital 640G SATAII 7200 rpm HDD (WD6400AAKS) for $99
Model #: WD6400AAKS

Optical - Samsung 22X DVDRW Black SATA Vista Support(SH-S223F/BEBN) for $27
Model #: SH-S223F/BEBN

Kaboom --> $977

If you want this cheaper, replace the Q9400 cpu with the Q6600 cpu and it will be $867 total
 
Even if you're not OC'ing, an E7200 would outperform that AMD 6000+. :)
 
Ah ok. I'll steer clear of AMD then.

So my decision comes down to needs. I could go with an E7200/E7300, E8400 or go with the Quad. I just don't want to waste money on something I won't use. I guess that cancels out the E8400 because I don't really game on it (use an X360 for gaming) and for general use/future use, the Quad is probably the way to go. So either the E7200/E7300 and then upgrade when the Quad is cheaper or just go Quad now.

With the GPU, I want to be able to play my older games (WoW, Warcraft 3, old NBA Lives) at max settings. If I want to play a newer game, I'd be happy with low/medium settings. Would the 4670 be enough for that?
 
No problem man. The HD 4670 may not be enough to max out your older games at max setting especially considering how high of a res you set the game on your crt monitor. Getting an E7300 cpu is not a bad idea, it's pretty strong and will smoke an X2 6000+ cpu. Let's go with this: Drop the Quad cpu for now, and upgrade the GPU to an HD 4850.

Case/Psu - Antec NSK6580 Solution Series ATX MiniTower for $129
Model #: NSK6580

Cpu - Intel ATX E7300 CORE 2 DUO 2.66G 3MBCache 1066FSB LGA775 for $180
Model # BX80571E7300

Mobo - MSI P43-NEO-F Intel P43 Chipset 1600MHz DDR2 1066 PCI-E x16 SATAII RAID GLAN USB2.0 8-Ch Audio ATX for $120
Model #: P43-NEO-F

Memory - Kingston DDR2 4(2x2G)PC6400 800Mhz - KVR800D2N5K2/4G for $63
Model #: KVR800D2N5K2/4G

Video Card - MSI ATI Radeon R4850 512M DDR3 HDMIReady Dual DVI-I HDTV/VO for $219
Model # R4850-T2D512

HDD - Western Digital 640G SATAII 7200 rpm HDD (WD6400AAKS) for $99
Model #: WD6400AAKS

Optical - Samsung 22X DVDRW Black SATA Vista Support(SH-S223F/BEBN) for $27
Model #: SH-S223F/BEBN

Total: $837
 
enginurd said:
Even if you're not OC'ing, an E7200 would outperform that AMD 6000+. :)
Click to expand...

According to firingsquad, Anandtech, and Bittech the 6000+ and the 5600+ are both on par with the E6600. Wolfdale is a linear shrink to Conroe (to reduce production costs), and the E7200 wolfdale has less cache and a lower clockspeed than the E6600 Conroe, so where an E7200 would outperform a 6000+ at stock speeds is beyond me.

Don't be fooled, Intel's Core 2 lineup does overlap in performance with the Athlon X2's. AMD's selling their chips at a loss and are remaining very competitive at the low end because of it. Intel has the whole enthusiast community swirling around their products because they overclock so well. If Intel were to adapt to the same failure rate and QC testing required for the Pentium EE's, they could easily have a 3.4GHz Conroe SKU and a 3.6 or even 3.8GHZ Wolfdale SKU, but they dont because what they have has such good press and pushing SKU's into the 3.0Ghz range would require increased production costs. As such, on sub $1000 computers AMD does make some acceptable offers.

But again, If you have any intrest in overclocking (read: if you have any intrest in a free performance gain with a little time investment required), you want P45 and a Core 2.

If I were you, this is what I'd go with:

Case/Psu - Antec NSK6580 Solution Series ATX MiniTower for $129
Cpu - AMD Athlon 64 6000+AM2 Processor Retail Dual Core AM2 for $122
Mobo - Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H AMD780G 5200HT DDR2 VGA PCIE2.0 RAID GbLAN 1394a mATX for $131
Memory - Kingston DDR2 4(2x2G)PC6400 800Mhz - KVR800D2N5K2/4G for $63
Video Card - Asus EAH4650 512M DDR2 PCIE2.0 DVI HDTV for $103
HDD - Western Digital 640G SATAII 7200 rpm HDD (WD6400AAKS) for $99
Optical - Samsung 22X DVDRW Black SATA Vista Support(SH-S223F/BEBN) for $27

total is $674

+vista 64 OEM and tax =~ $950?
 
MrWizard6600 said:
According to firingsquad, Anandtech, and Bittech the 6000+ and the 5600+ are both on par with the E6600. Wolfdale is a linear shrink to Conroe (to reduce production costs), and the E7200 wolfdale has less cache and a lower clockspeed than the E6600 Conroe, so where an E7200 would outperform a 6000+ at stock speeds is beyond me. ...
Click to expand...

Clock for clock, a Wolfdale is still faster than a Conroe. An E7200 is 2.53Ghz, which is MORE than 2.4Ghz. Not by much, mind you, but saying it has a lower clock speed is simply incorrect. Yes, it has less cache, but only 1MB less, and the faster clock speed compensates for that. Its performance is between the E6600 (2.53Ghz) and the E6750 (2.66Ghz).

Lets see what google turns up...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e7200_6.html#sect0
http://hothardware.com/Articles/Intel-Core-2-Duo-E7200/?page=5
http://www.techspot.com/review/100-intel-core2-duo-e7200/page10.html
http://techgage.com/article/intel_core_2_duo_e7200_-_the_new_budget_superstar/3
 
ah, seemed to have it in my head that the E6600 ran at 2.6GHz. But the online store only has the E7300, and it costs an extra $60, which is half the cost of the X2 6000+, and the gain is maybe 15%?
 
Well, I have never o/c'd. I always thought it would put your PC at risk and you needed to add extra cooling, etc. If it's easy and something I should be doing, then I suppose it's worth it.

Given it was said that I probably can't play my older games at max settings, I guess the 4850 is a go. That's all I needed to hear on that so I'm set GPU wise. I'm stoked that umart have it at $219 too as the other place I shop just increased their price from $209 to $261.

It all now comes down to the CPU and MB. Three options. A E7300/P43 combo, an E8400/P45 combo or I go Quad core. This o/c issue has me intrigued. Is it really that easy? I don't want to worry about extra cooling so I assume this is with stock cooling?

Damn, for $200 either way, I have a lot of questions, haha. Doing a quick calc with prices from MSY and UMart, I can get this for $895 but have a few questions/decisions to make.

CPU - Intel E8400
MB - Gigabyte EP45-DS3L or Asus P5Q
HDD - Samsung 640GB
RAM - 2GB stick A-Data
GPU - ATI HD 4850
CASE - Antec NSK6580
OPTICAL - Samsung or Pioneer DVDRW

Using the XP Home that I have as well as the same old mouse/keyboard and 19 inch CRT which I'm ok with.

1. Gigabyte or the Asus and could I go with the P5Q-SE to save some more coin?
2. I am planning to put this together myself. Only done it once and everything went well. I'm hoping this won't need extra cooling/fans or anything like that?
3. Both of those Mobo's are compatible with a quad if I decided to upgrade in a few years right?
 
Or $725 with an E7200/4670 which I'm seriously considering. Setting the CRT at 1280 x 1024 or possibly 1600 x 1200.
 
It took me a week to OC my Opteron165 from 1.8Ghz to 2.6Ghz. Thats a week of tweaking, math, and stress testing. With my Core2Duo E6400, I went from 2.1Ghz to 3.2Ghz in less than 25 hours -- and 24 of those hours was prime95 stress testing, lol. Yes, these Core2's are very easy to OC, even with stock coolers -- keep the temps under 60°C during full load and keep the CPU voltage under 1.45v. For the safest OC'ing, push the chip to its max on stock voltage, simply by pushing the FSB.

The E7300 replaced the E7200 at $120USD and the E7200 got a price cut to $99. However, since production has stopped on the E7200, not many people cut prices on the E7200. In the states, an E7300 is 25% cheaper than the E8400. At uMart, its 32%... which is still about right. If you need to save some cash, the E7300 is still a good option. With an E7300, 10x333 = 3.3Ghz... should be a safe OC, with maybe a slight voltage bump. If it gets too hot, drop the multiplier to 9 or 9.5.
 
Yeah, I'm thinking of possibly o/c'ing by just increasing the FSB. This is done just via the BIOS right?

I remember ages ago using an old AMD where I went into the BIOS and increased some MHz speed thing. I assume this is it and that's all that is needed to o/c the safest way? I don't want to have to put coolers or fans in or have to worry about temps and voltage, etc.
 
Yah, for a simple OC, just bump the FSB from 266 to 300. Boot into windows and run prime95 and realtemp or coretemp to monitor temps, and make sure all cores stay under 60°C. Run for as long as you wish, typically people run them for 24 hours to make sure everything is stable -- some people just run them overnight, since they'd never stress a system 24/7 like that anyhow.
 
yup, the only difference is how high the chip can reach. E8400s will be able to reach over 4Ghz more often than the E7000 series.
 
Yeah but I'm only talking the most simplest of overclocking. I assume getting it over 4 requires a bit of knowledge/cooling which I'm not up for.
 
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