Need Advice about second dead PC from Falcon Northwest

[edgeprod]

Hello everyone, I apologize for making this my first post. Long-time viewer, first time poster, to use a cliche. Apologies out of the way, I'm in a bit of a bind.

Over a year ago, I bought a PC from Falcon Northwest, based on a recommendation from a friend. I placed an order for a mid-range Talon system. It worked with minor hiccups for a number of months, and then failed without warning. I called Falcon support, and was shipped a replacement power supply. However, the system would not boot following the installation of the supply, and it required me sending the system back to Falcon (which I paid for, per the warranty).

A month or so later, I got back a replacement system. When this sytem arrived, it also wouldn't boot. I called Falcon support, and we were able to isolate the new problem to what they told me was a very common motherboard incompatibility with some of my existing hardware. No harm, no foul, I paid $150 for some new hardware, and was on my way.

At this point, the system WOULD boot, but took a few tries to get fully loaded into Windows. Because I rebooted infrequently, this was a minor annoyance. Falcon suggested I move the unit off of the carpet, so I went to Home Depot and purchased some scrap wood to accomodate this. Randomly, however, the unit would reboot for no apparent reason, even after being off for a week while I was on vacation. It didn't seem like a heat-related problem, but as this was Falcon's diagnosis, I decided to simply save more often in case of sudden reboot.

Last week, the system shut down unexpectedly, but this time gave me a blue screen before doing so. When I rebooted it, it gave me the usual hassles with the RAID array, but this time, refused to boot completely. Now, the raid array reports a failure. The system lasted for a number of months.

Here's where I need advice. Falcon has offered to ship a replacement drive (which I can purchase online for $79 if needed) to solve the RAID issue. However, the fan inside of the PC does not spin (this was the case with my last Falcon as well), and the intermittent reboots and blue-screens are unlikely to be addressed by this solution.

Every day I am down, I feel a disconnect with customers and am uncomfortable outside of my "home" environment of the familiar PC. I asked Falcon (as I asked after the first hardware failure) to simply come up with a reasonable figure, refund that amount, and take the system back. In essence, chalk it up to some bad units, and I'll go with another company. My original request was refused, and my current request is pending. If it's refused again, here are my options:


1) Take the loss, buy a new system.

2) Purchase a new system, get back what I can from something like small claims.

3) Take the replacement drive, cross my fingers.

4) Sell the Falcon, buy something else.


I'd be especially interested in hearing from people who have had good experiences with Falcon, as this will ease my mind a bit. Because no Falcon system I've owned has lasted a year, it seems I'm getting bad batches. Support has been accomodating to this point, and although it takes a while to get a call back, they're always polite and they try to help.

I'd prefer to completely sever my relationship with Falcon, but it looks like the only way to do that is to take a loss on the system, so I'm open to creative solutions, as well.

I will read EVERY response to this thread, and I appreciate EVERY comment. Don't hesistate to post !!!!!!-like posts, I won't flame anyone.


Thanks very much in advance!

 

[Ciggarilo Himself]

Take the replacement drive and cross your fingers,If it doesnt work build a newsystem yourself you will save alot of money if you build rather than buy and you can use the hdd you purchased in the new rig,computer parts are cheap if you live in the USA and you may even be able to salvage usable parts from your screwed computer.

Failing this roll over to their hq and rob them while they are sleeping I would not tolerate that bull shit,If they gave you a crappy system tht didnt even work properly when reasonably new they should giv you a refund.

Good luck.

 

[edgeprod]

My biggest issue is it's the SECOND Falcon to have a problem in less than a year.

THIS system is a REPLACEMENT for the first one that died.

If it was the first time, no harm, no foul.

Does that change your opinion?

 

[Dangman]

Just trying to clarify some things:

- Which fan does not work? A Case fan? CPU Fan?
- If you still have the warranty, have you tried asking Falcon Northwest to take it back and make sure the damn thing works?
- What is this about Small claims court? Are you planning to take Falcon Northwest to court?

Anyway I'd say take the replacement drive and cross your fingers.

Oh by the way, welcome to this forum

 

[edgeprod]

Just trying to clarify some things:

The case fan isn't spinning.

Sure, I could send it back, but it's the SECOND failure of a Falcon PC in less than a year -- what gives? Actually, less than SIX MONTHS, if you want to be specific. I just can't put my trust in them AGAIN. Two chances is MORE than enough for six months, in my book.

Someone who may have better luck with Falcon hardware is going to get the thing -- if I can get a decent price (within $400 or $500 of what I paid), it's out the door.

 

[Dangman]

What are the specs on the PC?

Yes it is the second failure, but since you still have the warranty, keep sending that sucker back until it works. Otherwise you'd have wasted money on something that could still be repaired for free.

 

[jbmx4life]

I would gt on the phone with Falcon and ask them to send a pre-paid shipping label to you so that you can return the unit to them. There is no reason for something like this to be happening and there is no reason why you should have to pony up the shipping cost every 6 months when it is their equiptment that is failing. I would have asked them right away when you got the second unit for a pre-paid shipping label to send it back when it was DOA right out of the box as a REPLACEMENT! That is ridiculous...

 

[edgeprod]

What are the specs on the PC?

Yes it is the second failure, but since you still have the warranty, keep sending that sucker back until it works. Otherwise you'd have wasted money on something that could still be repaired for free.

I think the annoyance is more the fact that is HAS died, rather than repaired free or not. Falcon's warranty says that *I* pay shipping to get it repaired, though, if it has to go back. It was a little over $100 last time, and the drive is only $79 from Newegg. I'm less concerned with COST as I am with just starting over with a new company, the more I think about it.

Specs you asked for:

(1) Silverstone TJ04 Case (Black)
(1) Silverstone 650 Power Supply
(1) Asus A8N-SLI 32 Deluxe Motherboard
(1) Athlon X2 4200+ Dual Core CPU
(1) Zalman CNPS700BLED ALCU CPU COOLER
(2) 1024MB 400Mhz PC3200 DDR (2GB total in system)
(2) WD2500KS 250GB SATA II - 7200RPM - 16MB RAID 0 (500GB total)
(2) NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT 256MB PCIE (in SLI)
(1) Sony 1.4MB Floppy - Black
(1) Sony 16x DVD-ROM - Black
(1) Liteon 16X Dual Layer DVD-RW - Black
(1) Creative Labs X-FI Xtreme Music
(1) PAX Mate 12" x 14" Pre-cut Sound Dampener

 

[edgeprod]

I would gt on the phone with Falcon and ask them to send a pre-paid shipping label to you so that you can return the unit to them. There is no reason for something like this to be happening and there is no reason why you should have to pony up the shipping cost every 6 months when it is their equiptment that is failing. I would have asked them right away when you got the second unit for a pre-paid shipping label to send it back when it was DOA right out of the box as a REPLACEMENT! That is ridiculous...

I reported the problems when the second bad unit arrived, but we mutually agreed that sending it back wasn't going to leave me a satisfied customer. They blamed the first crash on a card "known" to have problems, and then the "out of the box" problems with the second PC on a motherboard "known" to have problems. Now, it seems that the HDD in the machine has some history of issues. I wonder why these components are being used, if they have such crappy track records? But I guess it isn't really my business.

Yesterday, I spoke with them on the phone, and they told me that they felt they went "above and beyond" as it was with the repair last time. I'm not amused in the least by it. Either way, they're not going to pay the shipping -- I asked them to do that last time it crapped out, and they refused. Even if they DID, I don't want to be without a PC for over a month again. I'll just buy something new, I guess, and hope for the best with getting my money back somehow.

I looked at the Mac Pro today, and that looks like the system I'll go with. I'll recover the cost of the Falcon one way or another -- if someone buys it from the thread on the buy/sell/trade here, all the better, as they'll probably have more patience with Falcon that I will.

Note: I don't think Falcon is doing anything "wrong" here by hiding behind the warranty. It's their right. But I feel it's MY right as a consumer to not want to get trapped in an endless cycle of failures and repairs. They should just refund the original purchase (or some fair value on it) and be done with it.

I got word today I may be headed to Iraq. I told them I had other time crunches, so they may just "run out the clock" either way. I'll get the Mac Pro, and write off the loss of the Falcon if necessary.

 

[edgeprod]

No updates, but they apparently are back in the office tomorrow, so fingers crossed.

 

[edgeprod]

No updates, hopefully I'll hear back after the new year.

 

[Arcygenical]

God, I'd say a good 90% of the parts in that case are salvagable...

It seems like a motherboard problem to me. You could probably just grab another motherboard, and run without RAID (unless you REALLY need it)...

yknow, rather than an entire new system.

 

[Direfox]

(1) Silverstone TJ04 Case (Black)
(1) Silverstone 650 Power Supply
(1) Asus A8N-SLI 32 Deluxe Motherboard
(1) Athlon X2 4200+ Dual Core CPU
(1) Zalman CNPS700BLED ALCU CPU COOLER
(2) 1024MB 400Mhz PC3200 DDR (2GB total in system)
(2) WD2500KS 250GB SATA II - 7200RPM - 16MB RAID 0 (500GB total)
(2) NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT 256MB PCIE (in SLI)
(1) Sony 1.4MB Floppy - Black
(1) Sony 16x DVD-ROM - Black
(1) Liteon 16X Dual Layer DVD-RW - Black
(1) Creative Labs X-FI Xtreme Music
(1) PAX Mate 12" x 14" Pre-cut Sound Dampener


My suggestion if they won't refund the difference and let you start over is take the replacement drive(s?) and replace your CPU with a Core 2 Duo E6400 (or better), change the memory to some good DDR2 (Corsair XMS2, Crucial, or OCZ), and a new motherboard like the ABIT AW9D-MAX or DFI INFINITY 975X. The parts you have listed are top notch, its odd so many went bad, BUT, sucks that they wont give you good customer support.

But from what you have said so far, it looks like your not comfortable with building your own system though. Falcon NW is primarily a high performance gaming rig company, the Mac Pro isn't the best choice if you are after a good gaming rig but it would likely be a good reliable computer.

I would actually suggest going with a Dell though. I build my own computers but I have bought several Dells in the past. They have all been very reliable and they do make a decent gaming rig that pretty dependable. The few problems I have had with their computers were taken care of by phone and fixed promptly. They are expensive but not nearly as much as a Falcon NW rig. Its a nice balance between a work computer and a gaming computer. The disadvantages are they aren't upgrade friendly.

 

[abcdelight]

Those components don't seem dodgy to me at all. I can't see explaining all these issues off on a poor track record. The WD2500KS 250GB SATA II is solid drive and a billion people have them. When I read of problems like this I just have to wonder about electrical issues. PC's are sensitive to low currents and spikes etc. A run-of-the-mill cheap surge protector isn't enough to be safe. I have seen a few computer forum people be surprised how volatile their electric curent was once they checked into it. A poorly offset mobo, bad cables etc can cause shorts too.

If its not one component I start to suspect electrical stuff. It's not good enough to just say a bunch of components have a "bad history" when they don't.

 

[B. W.]

Those components don't seem dodgy to me at all. I can't see explaining all these issues off on a poor track record. The WD2500KS 250GB SATA II is solid drive and a billion people have them. When I read of problems like this I just have to wonder about electrical issues. PC's are sensitive to low currents and spikes etc. A run-of-the-mill cheap surge protector isn't enough to be safe. I have seen a few computer forum people be surprised how volatile their electric curent was once they checked into it. A poorly offset mobo, bad cables etc can cause shorts too.

I would agree and say whatever is causing these failures is probably on your end.

Since you're still under warranty, and Falcon is offering you a hard drive anyway, I would just take it and see if you can sell it for a reasonably price, swallow the loss, and upgrade. Consider investing in a decent power surge protector and UPS.

You don't really have any reason to toss the system (unless you want to give it to me, of course). Taking them to court won't do you much good, so if you don't think it'll last, move on to something else.

 

[haadij404]

BBB. Better Business Bureau. File a complaint with them and they most likely get FNW to comply and refund your money.

 

[edgeprod]

God, I'd say a good 90% of the parts in that case are salvagable...

It seems like a motherboard problem to me. You could probably just grab another motherboard, and run without RAID (unless you REALLY need it)...

yknow, rather than an entire new system.

I was hoping to salvage my data (actually was hoping for a Mobo problem so that the drives would be okay), but it doesn't look like that'll happen.

No one seems to want a Falcon -- have tried to sell it, but I guess it just isn't a system there's demand for.

 

[edgeprod]

My suggestion if they won't refund the difference and let you start over is take the replacement drive(s?) and replace your CPU with a Core 2 Duo E6400 (or better), change the memory to some good DDR2 (Corsair XMS2, Crucial, or OCZ), and a new motherboard like the ABIT AW9D-MAX or DFI INFINITY 975X. The parts you have listed are top notch, its odd so many went bad, BUT, sucks that they wont give you good customer support.

But from what you have said so far, it looks like your not comfortable with building your own system though. Falcon NW is primarily a high performance gaming rig company, the Mac Pro isn't the best choice if you are after a good gaming rig but it would likely be a good reliable computer.

I would actually suggest going with a Dell though. I build my own computers but I have bought several Dells in the past. They have all been very reliable and they do make a decent gaming rig that pretty dependable. The few problems I have had with their computers were taken care of by phone and fixed promptly. They are expensive but not nearly as much as a Falcon NW rig. Its a nice balance between a work computer and a gaming computer. The disadvantages are they aren't upgrade friendly.

You know what's weird about the customer support, though? They SAY all the right things. Their hands are just tied, because even though the computer seems to be cursed, there isn't much they can do. They're very NICE about it, though. The only person that was rude to me was Kelt, the CEO, and he apologized for what he said about me.

You're right that I am not comfortable building it myself -- I feel like it's just not worth the hassle of "what if" when something goes wrong. I spent the extra money on a pre-built, thinking that I'd be covered if something went awry. Unfortunately, I now feel like I would have been better off swallowing a small loss and replacing the parts myself. I'd have a PC right now, in fact.

I agree that Dell is a reasonable option. I have a few here now (plus the Alienware), and they've been good support-wise. Alienware actually sent someone TO THE OFFICE to swap a part, as did Apple. Of course, we had a LOT of Macs hanging around, and were like 15 minutes from their office .. but still.

 

[edgeprod]

Those components don't seem dodgy to me at all. I can't see explaining all these issues off on a poor track record. The WD2500KS 250GB SATA II is solid drive and a billion people have them. When I read of problems like this I just have to wonder about electrical issues. PC's are sensitive to low currents and spikes etc. A run-of-the-mill cheap surge protector isn't enough to be safe. I have seen a few computer forum people be surprised how volatile their electric curent was once they checked into it. A poorly offset mobo, bad cables etc can cause shorts too.

If its not one component I start to suspect electrical stuff. It's not good enough to just say a bunch of components have a "bad history" when they don't.

I wish it *was* a power issue. I have a BR1200 from APC. I got it because Falcon suggested replacing my old ($500) unit when the last PC crash happened, saying it may be faulty. Unfortunately, I had high hopes, but it just wasn't the case.

I'd never trust anything bigger than my TiVO to a surge protector .. and get nervous about even that.

Unfortunately, though, if you do some Google research, you'll find a history of problems with that specific drive. Likely, replacing it with a different model (NewEgg has 500GB models for about $139) will solve it. I'm afraid to keep the Falcon still, though.

 

[edgeprod]

I would agree and say whatever is causing these failures is probably on your end.

Since you're still under warranty, and Falcon is offering you a hard drive anyway, I would just take it and see if you can sell it for a reasonably price, swallow the loss, and upgrade. Consider investing in a decent power surge protector and UPS.

You don't really have any reason to toss the system (unless you want to give it to me, of course). Taking them to court won't do you much good, so if you don't think it'll last, move on to something else.

Thanks for your opinion that it's on my end.

I don't know if Falcon's offer of the drive stands -- I haven't heard from them since December 23rd. Even if I *do* get a drive from them, there has been little to NO interest in the system, at virtually any price. I may just drop it out of the window, just for the satisfaction of watching it smash at this point. I want to wipe my butt with the invoice, to be honest.

You're also right that it's smarter to just take the roughly $3,000 loss (well, much more if you consider the cost of the ORIGINAL system, plus all of the downtime, plus all of the shipping they charge me to send it back to them, etc, plus the accidental charge to my card for another part, plus the CEO accusing me of credit card fraud when I wanted to REVERSE the charge that they shouldn't have assessed in the first place).

 

[edgeprod]

Unfortunately, no news to report. Hopefully, it's just holiday backlog on their part.

 

[Modred189]

Ok, just some warning, but this is going to sound bad...

What you need to do is get on the phone and be REALLY angry from the beginning. You sound like a nice guy, so you might have to act a bit, but it has been my experience that companies will sometimes do more for an angry person than a calm one. Since they haven't really done anything for you so far besides lip service, maybe you should try the angry approach.
Throw in threats to go to the Better Business Bureau (as mentioned before), briefly mention an attorney etc. And be a jerk.
THEN bust out with the good cop once you've had a superior on the phone. Offer some creative solutions that are low cost to everyone. Tell them to send a shipping label so you can send the system back and have them cross ship the newest version of the same system. I assume that your same model is no longer available. If it is, offer to get an upgraded model but split the price difference. (If yours was 1000 and the upgrade is 1200, you pay 100 for the upgrade)
These creative solutions often go a long way.
The purpose of the angry act is to place some sort of incentive in their minds to work with you. If you appear super-angry and then seem a salvageable customer, they will leap atthe chance to save the sale.

Just some retail experience....

 

[edgeprod]

Ok, just some warning, but this is going to sound bad...

What you need to do is get on the phone and be REALLY angry from the beginning. You sound like a nice guy, so you might have to act a bit, but it has been my experience that companies will sometimes do more for an angry person than a calm one. Since they haven't really done anything for you so far besides lip service, maybe you should try the angry approach.
Throw in threats to go to the Better Business Bureau (as mentioned before), briefly mention an attorney etc. And be a jerk.
THEN bust out with the good cop once you've had a superior on the phone. Offer some creative solutions that are low cost to everyone. Tell them to send a shipping label so you can send the system back and have them cross ship the newest version of the same system. I assume that your same model is no longer available. If it is, offer to get an upgraded model but split the price difference. (If yours was 1000 and the upgrade is 1200, you pay 100 for the upgrade)
These creative solutions often go a long way.
The purpose of the angry act is to place some sort of incentive in their minds to work with you. If you appear super-angry and then seem a salvageable customer, they will leap atthe chance to save the sale.

Just some retail experience....

I appreciate your advice, and that you took the time to write it. Honestly, I just don't have the "mean" in me. I always try to treat people as I'd like to be treated, and sometimes I end up paying the price. You know what they say: "no good deed goes unpunished."

Unfortunately, I still have yet to hear anything as of today. My last contact with the company was December 23rd, when I was told they'd be back in the office the following Thursday. It's been a week since they were supposed to be back, and even longer, unfortunately (coming up on two weeks) since our last contact. In a handful of days, it will have be one month since my system died.

My last email to them, in which I told them it was fine to answer me when they got back into the office, and explained, at their request, some of the issued I've had:

The fan that's having the problem is the one near the power supply -- what I'd probably term the "main" fan. Although the PC as a "whole" is still as loud as anything (it's like a CAVE in here with it off, the SILENCE is actually deafening), the fan doesn't seem to spin at all. Previously, we discussed how hot it was to the touch, and how it melted the Microsoft Gamevoice right onto the case. I was eventually able to get it off (cleanly, too), but even after putting it "on blocks" off of the carpet, it melted (warped) the bottom of a plastic cup that was in contact with the top of the case. The wood it's sitting on is 1/4 to 1/2 an inch in thickness, off of the floor, and all pieces are uniform. I started out with 4 pieces, then went to three (it was actually more stable like a tricycle than with 4).

Obviously, it's off and "dead" right now, but when I had the case open, it didn't visually appear to be spinning, despite power cycling. This was post-drive failure.

Other random things:

The system itself and (apparently) the video cards are still doing the usual annoying things, i.e., random garbled characters on the screen, blue screening at odd times. It may happen 3 times in a day, and then not for 2 weeks, or it might happen twice in a week. It's unpredictable, and doesn't seem to be affected by how long the PC has been "on" before crashing. PC still makes a quiet "sizzle" when it's plugged in but "off," but is quiet when not plugged in to the UPS. It's a different UPS than I had in July, it's the 1200 or something from APC now.

The sound card will crackle and pop at random intervals, or emit a "feedback" noise (which is MUCH louder than other sounds at the time, especially bad with headphones). This is rarer than the video problems, but same with the video -- after it does this, the system usually reboots one way or another.

Most reboots happen with a blue screen or a lockup, following by either chirping (key memory saturated) types of sounds (which I didn't think happened with this Mobo, but oh well) or complete silence from the drives, etc.

During a reload of Windows, the system reported no available memory, and could not continue. This happens during use of Explorer (not IE, but the shell) as well, usually followed by a "page error" blue screen. I wrote down the numbers the last time it happened:

0x000000F4
0x00000003
0x882B7B50
0x882B7CC4
0x805D1140

Sometimes, the drives will randomly eject a DVD or CD. This issue is pretty minor, but seems to happen most often during DVD playback or (once, unfortunately) right in the middle of CD-burning.

Under Linux, the shell (using Bash at the time) will report a temperature warning over and over, with about 2-3 minutes in between intervals. This doesn't happen in Windows, but is likely due to a lack of the temperature daemon that Linux has. It interrupts anything being done in the shell, so it makes Linux almost unusable. If the temperature gets too high (about 20-60 mins of usage, on average), it will "throttle" the processor down.

Rebooting takes a few tries. Sometimes, it would hang as POST, sometimes at the RAID utility, other times it'd boot, get a login screen, you'd select a login, and then it would just sit there for an hour, and need a reboot. This is a minor annoyance, because 3-4 boots will "do the trick," but it's still an issue for sure.

Most of this, we talked about in July when I got the system, but we agreed not to solve them because it was a new system, and we were feeling good at the time about having ANYTHING after 1.5 months of downtime.

It was my understanding that Ayhan was asking Kelt verbally about a settlement on taking the PC back, but if that changed based on our conversation, I didn't catch it. Sorry. Basically, my offer is to find some happy medium of a refund on the system, versus tossing it back and forth (especially since shipping is going to really add up as it goes back and back and back). I'm just tired of not having a PC .. obviously, it's not the first time, and I don't have much faith that it'll be the last.

This is cool to sit until you're back from vacation. I have clients crawling up my ass looking for projects that were on schedule until the PC crash, so I know what it's like to work over the holidays. I ordered the Mac Pro today, so we'll get this solved one way or another in the near future.


Thanks!

The system is only a few months old, and this was the REPLACEMENT for my last Falcon, which had a complete failure, and took considerable expense, time (1.5 months is a fair estimate), and annoyance to get "fixed" -- a "fix" which lasted only a short time.

I'd prefer to just get some sort of refund-type of settlement at this point. I've been as patient as possible with the support, and I've even tried an entirely new system after the first one had its spectacular failure (later traced to a "one in a million" video card problem). I'm tired of being the guy who gets all of the "one in a million" problems. I have several other systems that work FINE. I'm willing to tolerate some bumps (and I feel I've put up with my fair share), but the relationship just ISN'T working out.

Last time I spoke with Kelt (the CEO), I expressed my concern that I was charged for a warrantied repair on my power supply. I didn't EXPECT the charge, and because it was substantial (and dropped my available funds lower than I'd expected), I bounced a rent check. I wrote Kelt about my concern, and he told me (quoting from the e-mail), "Giving us a card # which you knew had no credit on it is tantamount to writing a bad check." He later apologized for accusing me of what amounted to credit card fraud, but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Because the system at the time was virtually brand new, I offered to send it back for a refund. I was rebuffed, and I got the new system. When it arrived at my house, it didn't work. After more back and forth, I had a SEMI-working system (my current one), but I had to buy a bunch of new hardware (at my expense) to make it work because the motherboard had "quirks."

When THIS one failed, it also was virtually brand new. I again offered to return it for a refund, and to just wash everyone's hands of it. I'm not sure why this was refused the first time, but I think it's the best solution in this case. I've given them multiple chances to supply me with a working system, but it just hasn't happened.

Maybe I'm being unreasonable. I don't even know anymore at this point.

I *do* know that I didn't expect to have to back up a BRAND NEW system right away, so when it died, I lost all of the data I had on it. Regardless of the intelligence behind not backing up, I'm pretty much screwed work-wise, and just feel beaten down in general over this.

It's almost worth the money to see this system destroyed in some creative way. I've seen NO interest in anyone buying it, and may end up having to do something like part it out. ORIGINALLY, it was close to $3,000 ($2,900, I believe), then the rebuild was more like $2,400. Either way, I've shelled out a ton of money, time, and effort. I just want SOMETHING to show for it.

Enough whining for today, I guess.

 

[[LYL]Homer]

edgeprod,

Since you don't want to take a total loss, shipping costs as much as a potential fix, and you want to sever your relationship with FalconNW there is an easy solution.

Ask around for a good local PC repair shop and take the system there. Have them diagnose and fix it. Since this machine is proving to be a headache you may want to have them disable any of Falcon's tweaks, overclocking, and eliminate RAID 0. Oh, and get that fan fixed!

 

[edgeprod]

edgeprod,

Since you don't want to take a total loss, shipping costs as much as a potential fix, and you want to sever your relationship with FalconNW there is an easy solution.

Ask around for a good local PC repair shop and take the system there. Have them diagnose and fix it. Since this machine is proving to be a headache you may want to have them disable any of Falcon's tweaks, overclocking, and eliminate RAID 0. Oh, and get that fan fixed!

Seems like throwing good money after bad, almost. I wish Falcon would just reply, but another day has passed, and it's looking less and less likely every day that goes by.

I'll be moving shortly, and/or going to Iraq, too .. don't want to drag a box with me (on a move, at least, not to Iraq) that isn't ever going to be fixed.

*bangs head against wall*

 

[edgeprod]

Unfortunately, it's the weekend again, and they didn't reply this week, either.

I'm starting to get that "sinking" feeling.

 

[Mo_BurLy]

So are you saying that you have one case fan and that it does not work? With all of those components the case would be an oven with no airflow. This would damage everything and cause strange problems. With things being 'melted' I believe this is the problem already.

You need to tell us some temps at idle and load. Install Everest 2.2 and tell us all the temps it indicates. If the case has no airflow the temps will be sky high and cause reboots, crashes, and eventually kill everything.

A quick solution for this is to run with the case side off with a room fan aimed onto the motherboard, but some things may already be destroyed.

 

[edgeprod]

So are you saying that you have one case fan and that it does not work? With all of those components the case would be an oven with no airflow. This would damage everything and cause strange problems. With things being 'melted' I believe this is the problem already.

You need to tell us some temps at idle and load. Install Everest 2.2 and tell us all the temps it indicates. If the case has no airflow the temps will be sky high and cause reboots, crashes, and eventually kill everything.

A quick solution for this is to run with the case side off with a room fan aimed onto the motherboard, but some things may already be destroyed.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure you completely understood the root of the issue. The RAID is apparently fried, so it's either the motherboard itself or the drive. Because of this, it DOES NOT BOOT. I cannot, then, install anything. If I could, I would be happy to.

I suggested to Falcon, when the fan died a few months ago, that I put a fan on the open case. They told me that because of the way the PC was designed, airflow was handled very precisely inside of the box, and an external fan would disrupt that.

 

[Mo_BurLy]

Right I forgot it wont boot anymore. As I said, though, excess heat can kill anything and everything. I know those Falcon systems are tightly packed and with all of those components, especially the SLI, it must be a squeeze.

I think it was the heat that caused these problems. Period, no other explanations needed. Seriously, you had things melting on the case. It fried some of your components and caused random instability. I've experienced it myself.

How long was that fan dead, and did you ever replace it? Heat induced problems many times seem random, just like your problems, and it does not take long to damage an electrical component. If you had that system running for any length of time with no air movement, I am completely confident it's a heat issue. Even with one good case fan it may have had problems eventually, because you have so many high power components inside.

If Falcon told you not to worry about the heat, even when you told them plastic things would melt onto the outer parts of the case, they are entirely at fault for this and should reimburse you in full and fire the idiot tech you talked to. If you have records of your communications (and many times companies record conversations on telephone support) have a lawyer call and threaten them with a small claims lawsuit and I bet they would yield.

PS, have you tried one hard drive? If you can and have the time, install windows and run Everest after it has been on a while to get some idle temps if it works. Then load it with orthos or something and check the temps again. Try to get it to the same conditions as when it melted that cup onto the case.

 

[edgeprod]

I don't really want any sort of "confrontation" with them about this. I'm trying to be as absolutely reasonable as possible. If they won't or can't issue a refund for the useless second system, then I guess I'll just eat the loss and make sure that I tell as many people as possible about my experience.

There isn't much else I can do. Still no contact from them as of today, as an update.

 

[Wolfsbane2k]

I don't really want any sort of "confrontation" with them about this. I'm trying to be as absolutely reasonable as possible. If they won't or can't issue a refund for the useless second system, then I guess I'll just eat the loss and make sure that I tell as many people as possible about my experience.

There isn't much else I can do. Still no contact from them as of today, as an update.

I know you've said before you don't want to get angry, but it sounds like they aren't responding well to the nice guy approach - and you have been using it a lot with them!

I'd say it's time to have a go with the Angry Customer - that's a lot of money to be throwing away - at least if you get it fixed from FNW, you can then sell it and make some of your money back!

Good luck!

 

[edgeprod]

I know you've said before you don't want to get angry, but it sounds like they aren't responding well to the nice guy approach - and you have been using it a lot with them!

I'd say it's time to have a go with the Angry Customer - that's a lot of money to be throwing away - at least if you get it fixed from FNW, you can then sell it and make some of your money back!

Good luck!

I think I'd rather eat the loss than be rude. Maybe it's a character flaw.

 

[Mo_BurLy]

Your choice of action is up to you, of course. However, you did create a thread seeking advice from people here. In my experience, all of those problems you listed in that email are heat related or can be caused by heat damaged components. Who's fault is it? You know better than us.

 

[edgeprod]

Your choice of action is up to you, of course. However, you did create a thread seeking advice from people here. In my experience, all of those problems you listed in that email are heat related or can be caused by heat damaged components. Who's fault is it? You know better than us.

For sure, I agree with you, and I definitely appreciate the advice. There just isn't a ton I can do if Falcon doesn't agree to provide a refund. We tried fixing the PC (twice now), and it just isn't happening.

I'm literally sick over it, but I don't want to be a "problem client" to anyone. I'm sure Falcon works very hard at what they do, and just because it seems to most of us they're unscrupulous, I'm sure they have the best of intentions.

In the meantime, I've been without a PC now for over a month, and the last time, it was about 1.5 months.

I just want to cut my losses. I want a refund, so we can go our separate ways. It's been WAY too long to get some sort of reply, now.

 

[steveak]

I just want to cut my losses. I want a refund, so we can go our separate ways. It's been WAY too long to get some sort of reply, now.

One word: Small Claims Court.

Do some Googling and call your local (probably District) court office. Talk to a clerk and ask what you need to do to file a suit to get your money back.

It won't cost much to file, and Small Claims Court proceedings are typically done without a lawyer. You just present your side of the case to a judge. Make sure that you have all documentation and proof to back up your side of the story.

Do not be afraid of the legal system. If you can file suit against FNW, that may be the only way that you will get satisfaction on this. Of course, I don't know the ramifications as to filing against somebody that (I assume) is not based in your state. The courthouse will let you know that, but that generally is not a problem.

steve

 

[edgeprod]

One word: Small Claims Court.

Do some Googling and call your local (probably District) court office. Talk to a clerk and ask what you need to do to file a suit to get your money back.

It won't cost much to file, and Small Claims Court proceedings are typically done without a lawyer. You just present your side of the case to a judge. Make sure that you have all documentation and proof to back up your side of the story.

Do not be afraid of the legal system. If you can file suit against FNW, that may be the only way that you will get satisfaction on this. Of course, I don't know the ramifications as to filing against somebody that (I assume) is not based in your state. The courthouse will let you know that, but that generally is not a problem.

steve

Well, I actually looked into it a few weeks ago. The court said that because they were out of state, our courts actually had jurisdiction over them because they SOLD to residents here. They told me that they would have to show up for the hearing, and if they did not, I would win by default. After that, I could get the judgment enforced by a Sheriff in their home state, who would serve the judgment on their bank accounts, basically, and there wasn't much they could do.

However, the COST for them to come out here would be equal (or close) to the maximum amount I could file for, which is $3,500 (plus expenses). I felt that it was kind of slimy to go that route, only because I'd feel like I'd backed them into a corner.

I should set a date that I'm willing to wait until, and then file if it goes past that date. It's been a little over a month since my PC broke, and coming up on 3 weeks since I last heard from them, so it hasn't been THAT long, I guess. I don't really know what to expect, service-wise, from boutique companies like Falcon.

 

[steveak]

Well, I actually looked into it a few weeks ago. The court said that because they were out of state, our courts actually had jurisdiction over them because they SOLD to residents here. They told me that they would have to show up for the hearing, and if they did not, I would win by default.

However, the COST for them to come out here would be equal (or close) to the maximum amount I could file for, which is $3,500 (plus expenses). I felt that it was kind of slimy to go that route, only because I'd feel like I'd backed them into a corner.

What is slimy is that you have a major problem with an expensive purchase, and they are not making it right for you.

Still, I would not just spring a small claims suit on them. The thing to do is to send them a registered letter (so that you have evidence of delivery) stating your case again, and that you want either a new and working system, a complete repair, or your money back (or whatever else you want).

Give them a reasonable time to respond (two weeks or so), and state that if you do not have satisfaction by that time, THEN you will file suit. This gives them time to respond, and they (hopefully) will, knowing that they'll lose the lawsuit or will have to spend extra money to fight it. It's cheaper for them to just take care of your computer

And if they don't fix your problem by the deadline, just file suit.

steve

 

[edgeprod]

What is slimy is that you have a major problem with an expensive purchase, and they are not making it right for you.

Still, I would not just spring a small claims suit on them. The thing to do is to send them a registered letter (so that you have evidence of delivery) stating your case again, and that you want either a new and working system, a complete repair, or your money back (or whatever else you want).

Give them a reasonable time to respond (two weeks or so), and state that if you do not have satisfaction by that time, THEN you will file suit. This gives them time to respond, and they (hopefully) will, knowing that they'll lose the lawsuit or will have to spend extra money to fight it. It's cheaper for them to just take care of your computer

And if they don't fix your problem by the deadline, just file suit.

steve

I agree that they seem to be acting is a less than advantageous way, from my perspective, but I also respect that they are a business, and "doing the right thing" costs money.

The day I reported the problem, they told me to just replace the drive. Because that includes expense, and doesn't fix the "root" of the problem, I declined, and asked to find a "better" solution. I got major pushback, unfortunately. I feel like I'm not communicating my message to them clearly enough. If my roof collapsed and crushed my dining room table, I'd fix the roof, THEN the table. Falcon wants to fix the table (the drive) and not the roof (the heat problem, etc).

I just called them again, so hopefully we'll at least SPEAK today, since it's been almost 3 weeks since I've been waiting for them to reply.

I agree with you about the method for filing a suit, I just am VERY hesitant to use that option -- there isn't any going back from that. I am trying to be ABSOLUTELY as fair as possible.

I'll update this thread with their reply (if any), and then we'll make a decision, as a community, and go from there. I'll stand by what we decide in this thread, following Falcon's reply.

 

[edgeprod]

It's been about 3 hours since I left that message, so I sent them an e-mail to follow up as well. Hopefully some combination of the feelers I sent out today will get a reply.

 

[mket]

Couple other alternatives:

1 - If you get to the point of tossing it, consider donating it to a charity and take a tax write off. Since its brand new, its almost full value. Give it to a school for them to learn from by fixing it, or at least they can use it like a cadaver and salvage the parts.

2 - I don’t know the protocol here, but perhaps there is a [h] enthusiast in your area that might be able to fix it up for you or at least diagnosis down to exactly what part it is so you can RMA just that. Once its working, eBay it, donate or use it. If you suffer a loss, write that off too.