ne1 notice a new 4850x2 also announced?

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poppageek

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With everyone excited about the 4870x2 it is easy to overlook a 4850x2 also announced.

Hope it is ok to quote another site.....

"Speaking of awesomeness, Radeon board vendors have another surprise in store for us soon, as well: Radeon HD 4850 X2 cards. These things will feature two Radeon HD 4850 GPUs, each with 512MB of GDDR3 memory. We haven't yet procured one of these things, but I'd expect them to perform more or less like a pair of Radeon HD 4850s in CrossFire, which is pretty darned fast. The price? $399, or less than the going rate for a GeForce GTX 280. Now, that's just not even fair."

Bottom of page:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/15293

Sounds pretty cool to me, one slot 4850 crossfire.
 
Seems like a bad value proposition to me. Unlike individual 4850's, there will be very little aftermarket for a last-gen dual-gpu card once the next big architecture comes out. Seriously, who would buy a 3870x2 now? How much do you think you could get for one in FS/FT? I rest my case.

This is not a dis on Crossfire or dual setups, but for the $399 MSRP, you can very nearly get a new CF motherboard and two individual 4850's for the same money (after combo deals, instant rebates, etc.)
 
So AMD have too much RV770 dies around but they didn't have enough PCB and DDR5 RAM?
 
The 4850x2 works out much better for Australians, as it should be around $400-450AUD, which is less then the cost of new 4850 cards.
 
alg7_munif said:
So AMD have too much RV770 dies around but they didn't have enough PCB and DDR5 RAM?
Click to expand...

I doubt it, they said from the beginning that they were not going for large monolithic chips but combining smaller chips. this makes perfect sense to me except the price. why would I pay 100 dollars more for a single card rather then two? I could see people with P35 boards or lesser (read nvidia boards). but for those of us with crossfire boards I don't see this at all
 
RenAU said:
The 4850x2 works out much better for Australians, as it should be around $400-450AUD, which is less then the cost of new 4850 cards.
Click to expand...


I hope that's true, you made me think that it might actually be a good deal for me. 4850s you can get for as low as $200AUD, 4870s for about $340AUD. If you follow the logical thing of the 4850X2 being slightly cheaper than 2 individual 4850s, then it should be around $400, which is pretty good. That makes it much the same cost to buy a 4850X2 as it does to buy a 4870 with a decent aftermarket cooler.

I might pounce on a 4850X2 if they come in at $400AUD or not too much more.
 
You can get pretty much HD 4850 XF for like $300-350 bux and they come with GDDR5, so I would expect the price of the 4850X2 to be around $350
 
shraz said:
You can get pretty much HD 4850 XF for like $300-350 bux and they come with GDDR5, so I would expect the price of the 4850X2 to be around $350
Click to expand...

Not in Australian dollars ;) Anything around the $400AUD for a 4850X2 and I'll be very tempted. My only apprehension would be people saying multi GPUs suck with Vsync and microstuttering. Games that dont have crossfire support would be another issue... but I'm guessing most new games will have crossfire support, and old games will run fine even using a single 4850 so crossfire isn't needed.
 
shraz said:
You can get pretty much HD 4850 XF for like $300-350 bux and they come with GDDR5, so I would expect the price of the 4850X2 to be around $350
Click to expand...

so would I, but I'm thinking that the increased cost of the board might make that hard. if it came ~ 300 or so I would go for it, but not more. @ 400 its only an option for people that need a single card (missing PCIe slots) and can't afford a new PSU to get the 4870X2
 
oops im sorry the HD 4850 is GDDR3, the HD 4870 is GDDR5.

It was rumored that the Radeon HD 4850 X2 will have 2GB of GDDR3 for $449 (back in July). I think the 1GB version would be better value and should cost $350.
 
shraz said:
oops im sorry the HD 4850 is GDDR3, the HD 4870 is GDDR5.

It was rumored that the Radeon HD 4850 X2 will have 2GB of GDDR3 for $449 (back in July). I think the 1GB version would be better value and should cost $350.
Click to expand...

agreed, not seeing the point in the 2gb right now
 
Tudz said:
Not in Australian dollars ;) Anything around the $400AUD for a 4850X2 and I'll be very tempted. My only apprehension would be people saying multi GPUs suck with Vsync and microstuttering. Games that dont have crossfire support would be another issue... but I'm guessing most new games will have crossfire support, and old games will run fine even using a single 4850 so crossfire isn't needed.
Click to expand...


Ya I think it's just going to be like how the CPU dual-cores began--programs will start using it more and more now I don't even think anyone would buy a single core.
 
Valset said:
agreed, not seeing the point in the 2gb right now
Click to expand...

Isn't it still the case that 2gb would effectively by 1gb, because the chips dont share the ram? If that's the case I could see the point in a 2gb version, as looking at benchmarks the 4850 crossfire is beating the GTX280 in a lot of situations (esp higher res with AA enabled), where the extra ram would help.

Remember that when you run out of video ram, the framerate doesn't decrease much, but you get horrible stuttering and possible glitches. This is what happens to me in Crysis and Gears of War and DIRT and several other games (I've got a 320mb 8800GTS). When turning up the textures the framerate doesn't drop much at all, maybe a few frames lost. However once the video ram is all used up, you can definately tell because it starts stuttering like a bitch and many games get texture glitches. Also I noticed with the PhysX tech demos, a couple of them showed glitches which were similar to the glitches I get in Crysis when video ram runs out, so if these GPUs start getting used as physics units, the required video ram could jump.
 
I can think of a least one instance where this card would be appealing - people who have
P45 boards could get full 16x Crossfire with it,something they couldn't do with two
4850's.Of course,it all depends on how well this card performs compared to a single 4870.
 
michael.pa2 said:
I can think of a least one instance where this card would be appealing - people who have
P45 boards could get full 16x Crossfire with it,something they couldn't do with two
4850's.Of course,it all depends on how well this card performs compared to a single 4870.
Click to expand...

Well 4850 crossfire performs well compared to a single 4870, especially at higher resolution with AA enabled, so you'd expect a 4850x2 to be pretty good too.
 
Tudz said:
Isn't it still the case that 2gb would effectively by 1gb, because the chips dont share the ram? If that's the case I could see the point in a 2gb version, as looking at benchmarks the 4850 crossfire is beating the GTX280 in a lot of situations (esp higher res with AA enabled), where the extra ram would help.

Remember that when you run out of video ram, the framerate doesn't decrease much, but you get horrible stuttering and possible glitches. This is what happens to me in Crysis and Gears of War and DIRT and several other games (I've got a 320mb 8800GTS). When turning up the textures the framerate doesn't drop much at all, maybe a few frames lost. However once the video ram is all used up, you can definately tell because it starts stuttering like a bitch and many games get texture glitches. Also I noticed with the PhysX tech demos, a couple of them showed glitches which were similar to the glitches I get in Crysis when video ram runs out, so if these GPUs start getting used as physics units, the required video ram could jump.
Click to expand...

yes but that doesn't seem to be happening much. I agree its good future proofing but right now there is really no reason for 1gb of video ram, esp with the price of GDDR5. and if your not gaming at 2560 by 1600 none at all. take a look at the 4870 crossfire vs the 4870X2, the 4870 Xfire beats it most of the time (not a significant amount though) due to the over head of the extra memory. as it currently stands the extra 512 per core is wasted and cost too much. now crysis might get something out of it at high rez but...
 
Valset said:
yes but that doesn't seem to be happening much. I agree its good future proofing but right now there is really no reason for 1gb of video ram, esp with the price of GDDR5. and if your not gaming at 2560 by 1600 none at all. take a look at the 4870 crossfire vs the 4870X2, the 4870 Xfire beats it most of the time (not a significant amount though) due to the over head of the extra memory. as it currently stands the extra 512 per core is wasted and cost too much. now crysis might get something out of it at high rez but...
Click to expand...

Yeah but this thread is talking about the 4850X2, not the 4870, which has GDDR3, not GDDR5 ;) If its not much more expensive to get a 2gb 4850x2, I'd get it. If I buy a card I'd like it to last me at least 18 months, and hopefully 2 years. My 8800GTS 320mb, which I payed $430 for a bit more than 1 year ago (the cost of 2 4850s now) is already having ram related issues. 320mb to 512mb isn't a lot, so I dont think its too far off before 512mb becomes a bottleneck.

Also note that I said running out of vram doesn't drop your framerate much, it causes stuttering and other glitches. All these benchmarks are giving is framerates, so its possible they are running out of vram its just you can't see it because it doesn't manifest itself as a drop in framerate.
 
michael.pa2 said:
I can think of a least one instance where this card would be appealing - people who have
P45 boards could get full 16x Crossfire with it,something they couldn't do with two
4850's.Of course,it all depends on how well this card performs compared to a single 4870.
Click to expand...

?

P45 performs just fine in crossfire, maybe you meant to say P35?
 
kllrnohj said:
P45 still has the same number of lanes as the P35. Its just in an x8/x8 arrangement rather than the P35's x16/x4.
Click to expand...

P45 is dual x8 lanes of PCIe 2.0 (twice the bandwidth of P35's PCIe 1.x) and dual x8 is a far more optimal configuration for crossfire than x16/x4

The user to whom I responded seemed to be implying that paying $399 for a 4850x2 is a good investment for P45 users because of some deficiency in running two individual 4850's in crossfire on a P45 board. A pair of 4850's will set you back about $330 after rebates, so that's a pretty significant savings over a 4850x2, which will likely depreciate in overall value more than a pair of individual cards would.

If he had said P35, or "single slot," I would have mostly agreed with him. If you already own a crossfire-capable P45 board, there is little reason to consider an x2 over a pair of individual cards unless you are concerned about power consumption or heat. Future prices may change this, but the point is that P45's crossfire implementation is not a significant impediment to crossfire performance. There's a hit, but it's quite minimal.
 
poppageek said:
With everyone excited about the 4870x2 it is easy to overlook a 4850x2 also announced.

Hope it is ok to quote another site.....

"Speaking of awesomeness, Radeon board vendors have another surprise in store for us soon, as well: Radeon HD 4850 X2 cards. These things will feature two Radeon HD 4850 GPUs, each with 512MB of GDDR3 memory. We haven't yet procured one of these things, but I'd expect them to perform more or less like a pair of Radeon HD 4850s in CrossFire, which is pretty darned fast. The price? $399, or less than the going rate for a GeForce GTX 280. Now, that's just not even fair."

Bottom of page:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/15293

Sounds pretty cool to me, one slot 4850 crossfire.
Click to expand...

OP i did, and to the people that said that it wouldn't happen... eat this. :D

 
Valset said:
I doubt it, they said from the beginning that they were not going for large monolithic chips but combining smaller chips. this makes perfect sense to me except the price. why would I pay 100 dollars more for a single card rather then two? I could see people with P35 boards or lesser (read nvidia boards). but for those of us with crossfire boards I don't see this at all
Click to expand...

The X2 cards aren't meant for those that have CrossFire (dual-slot PCIe x16) boards, but for those with single-slot (P35/P43/nV) boards. The X2 market is basically the same as the nV GX2 market.

Speaking of single-slot boards, this is the sort of board DAAMIT had in mind for the 4850 X2:

http://www.biostar-usa.com/app/en-us/t-series/introduction.php?S_ID=369

It's a single-slot PCIe x16 2.0 mobo that swallows both 65nm and 45nm quad-cores (or dual-cores) that is not a wallet-buster (it's under $100USD, and can be found under $90USD).
 
anyone got any idea what the voltage draw will be on this card...and don't say 12V lol
isn't the 4870x2 more than 2 4870's in sli ?
I have a p38 dfi board, 2 gig memory, SB audio, 1 optical, 3 HD's
but only have a corsair 620 powersupply

OH BOY can't wait for the next worstbuy $100 sale on this card. ROFL

yep I get $75 for a 4870x2 when I don't have any :eek:
 
why haven't we heard any more about this card? I would have expected something to leak.
 
sparks said:
anyone got any idea what the voltage draw will be on this card...and don't say 12V lol
Click to expand...

The voltage draw will be 12v. I think you mean wattage. The draw will probably be a bit less than two 4850s, which is to say that it'll be well within the capabilities of any decent 400W PSU.
sparks said:
isn't the 4870x2 more than 2 4870's in sli ?
Click to expand...

First of all, it's Crossfire, not SLI. The X2 is two 4870s stuck together with twice as much RAM as the stock cards. So yeah, it's technically more than two 4870s, although the difference isn't substantial until you get into really high resolutions and levels of AA.
 
sparks said:
anyone got any idea what the voltage draw will be on this card...and don't say 12V lol
isn't the 4870x2 more than 2 4870's in sli ?
I have a p38 dfi board, 2 gig memory, SB audio, 1 optical, 3 HD's
but only have a corsair 620 powersupply

OH BOY can't wait for the next worstbuy $100 sale on this card. ROFL

yep I get $75 for a 4870x2 when I don't have any :eek:
Click to expand...


12v duh! lol what u mean is how many watts

 
Yeah, the 4850X2 is the card I really want to see. There's no way I'm gonna dish out AUD$650+ for a 4870X2, but if the 4850X2 is around the AUD$450 mark, I'd be very very interested.
 
sparks said:
anyone got any idea what the voltage draw will be on this card...and don't say 12V lol
isn't the 4870x2 more than 2 4870's in sli ?
I have a p38 dfi board, 2 gig memory, SB audio, 1 optical, 3 HD's
but only have a corsair 620 powersupply

OH BOY can't wait for the next worstbuy $100 sale on this card. ROFL

yep I get $75 for a 4870x2 when I don't have any :eek:
Click to expand...

They aren't exactly *WorstBuy* compared to most other B&M big-box retailers (especially CC). Actually, the only two B&M retailers that can compete with BB on a stock-level basis are Fry's and MicroCenter (and you'll find a BB in areas that lack both Fry's and MC).

I find that most big-box retailers lack any technical knowledge on what they sell (that's not a lack specific to BB), so it pays to do your own due-dilligence anyway.
 
I can't understand the pricing on the 4850x2.
4870 $230 *2 =460 now I know that you also have 2G memory compared to 1G (512x2)
total is $550 suggested retail with double the memory.

4850 $179 *2 = 358 to say this card is $450 is just a little much to me.
 
No I was talking ohms.

ok Watts = Volts x Amps (forget the part about wire length ) LOL
Ohms = Volts / Amps

I was in a hurry when I posted that one. I was talking about using a 620W power supply and a 4850x2. Since a single 4850 227W under load. I found it funny that 2 in CF only draw 302W. I can't see this being correct but I guess they know more than I do.
I would have thought it was 454W .....running 2 maybe you get a discount.
Or maybe since each is just rendering half the screen then it is actually doing less.
Same thing with 4870's 203 and 273

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=22

anyway I have no way of testing the actual wattage that is being used from the ps to the components I have to take it at face value.
 
sparks said:
No I was talking ohms.

ok Watts = Volts x Amps (forget the part about wire length ) LOL
Ohms = Volts / Amps

I was in a hurry when I posted that one. I was talking about using a 620W power supply and a 4850x2. Since a single 4850 227W under load. I found it funny that 2 in CF only draw 302W. I can't see this being correct but I guess they know more than I do.
I would have thought it was 454W .....running 2 maybe you get a discount.
Or maybe since each is just rendering half the screen then it is actually doing less.
Same thing with 4870's 203 and 273

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=22

anyway I have no way of testing the actual wattage that is being used from the ps to the components I have to take it at face value.
Click to expand...


The power usage on anandtech is total system power, not simply video card power. That includes CPU, RAM, hard drives, etc. So you'd assume each 4850 is using 75W and the rest of the system is using 152W (or around about that). The 4870 appears to be using around about 130W.

Very approximate of course. :p
 
Tudz thank you for clearing that up. I missed it and their numbers were very confusing.

so let me check here if 1 cards is 227 total watts and 2 cards system total is 302
then 1 card is drawing 75 Watts.
so 2 cards are drawing 150Watts.
system is drawing 142 Watts.


of course when you take the 4870 numbers and calculate the same thing.
1 card is drawing 142 Watts
2 cards are drawing 284 Watts
system is drawing 137 Watts

very close trying to remove system draw.
 
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