Navi vs Turing architechture comparison.

Discussion in 'Video Cards' started by Stoly, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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  2. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    Good article....and interesting to see that NVIDIA keeps compute and adds Raytracing with Turing...while AMD removes a lot of compute and no Raytracing with Navi.
     
  3. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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    Huh?

    AMD improved their compute and made it more developer friendly. They restructured the pipeline and basically increased everything to do with compute, inside of each stream processor. The only thing they decreased, are the SFUs, which don't sound very important for total performance in typical workloads. Its also completely backward compatible with stuff tailor made for GCN.

    All of the improvements mean NAVI performs better with less total stream processors. Even though paper specs look like it should perform worse. This gives them a lot more room to scale up for a better, more expensive card. Nvidia has done the same thing with some of their cards. Less specs on paper, same or better performance in games.
     
  4. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    https://www.anandtech.com/show/14618/the-amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-review/13
     
  5. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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    That article says its a driver/support problem. There's no reason specs-wise, that Navi shouldn't be wasting AMD's previous cards in these tests. Many of them don't even run. Again, due to driver stagnation. This is a trend with several of AMD's features in their driver. Hopefully their RDNA branding will make them more internally accountable for this stuff so that long term, we won't have these issues anymore.

    *it also shows that being backwards compatible in hardware, is not a free pass to performance with older software.
     
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  6. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    I suspect the current lowish compute performance shown by navi under opencl has to do with it basically being addressed as a GCN arch. Double edge sword of building a new arch that is 100% backwards compatible. It is running on software compiled for GCN, but its not running at max potential. It would be nice if AMD was quicker on enabling compiler stuff. They should really have updated stuff out the door on launch. ROCm amds open compute stack still hasn't had navi support patched in.

    It will be interesting to see what ROCm looks like in the next month or two with 2.7 which should have navi support. It will be interesting to see if the low compute performance right now is because of backwards compatibility. I guess AMD figures 5700 isn't positioned as a compute part. Hopefully 5800/5900 means new RadeonPRO parts and updates to compute compilers for RDNA. They aren't selling RDNA RadeonPros yet so I guess we can't really bitch yet. lol
     
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  7. Gamer X

    Gamer X Limp Gawd

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    RDNA is for games... Vega is for Enterprise. Nobody is buying Navi for compute. (Radeon 7's were on sale).
     
  8. chameleoneel

    chameleoneel 2[H]4U

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    compute has been used in games for various things
     
  9. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    Actually there's no reason why Navi can't perform good for compute (other than drivers). Unless you need FP64
     
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  10. Ready4Dis

    Ready4Dis Limp Gawd

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    That was as a good read, thanks for that. Interesting how close the outcomes where. AMD uses muchess transistors to match the the performance (after taking tensor cores I to account), so it's curious why it still seems to be less power efficient. Less transistors and 7nm... Kind of weird, hopefully increases in 7nm production can reduce the power consumption some in the future.
     
  11. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    If you compare the 5700xt to the 2070 they are about the same perf and transistors. Take out the RTX resistors and nVidia is more efficient both in power and fps per transistor in rasterized.
     
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  12. Ready4Dis

    Ready4Dis Limp Gawd

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    I will as specifically talking about the 2070 super from the article, sorry about that, I forgot to type super in my post. They conclude it's within 2% speed, so figured it was a pretty good comparison. Of course some games one way or the other as we've seen in the last. I typically type on my phone, so it's easy for me to make mistakes, have my phone auto correct or just miss letters :). My apologies. I also realize the article led me astray, it compares transistor count for tu102, not for the 2070 super. Looking up transistor count for that, it appears they are pretty similar in transistor counts (if you take tensor cores into account).
    Thanks for pointing out my mistake, it happens! (Probably more often than I care to admit).
     
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  13. MangoSeed

    MangoSeed Limp Gawd

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    If you remove the marketing fluff RDNA is basically Pascal + much larger L1 cache. The execution engines SM/CUs, schedulers, wavefront size and cache hierarchy are remarkably similar. With RDNA AMD has now caught up to Nvidia on efficiency per flop but are still behind on other efficiency metrics.
     
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  14. Gamer X

    Gamer X Limp Gawd

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    Navi10 is only the beginning.
     
  15. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    Turing is only the beginning.

    Plot twist, Intel devastates AMD and nVidia.
     
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  16. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ardness Supreme

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    Fine by me. Just give me performance. IF Intel wipes the floor with those two then we will really have a beast.
     
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  17. Gamer X

    Gamer X Limp Gawd

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    But Volta was suppose to be the next big gaming thing, then Nvidia released Turing to Gamers. It's been out a year... and at $800 doesn't offer much performance over Pascal's performance. Now Nvidia is going to be on their 3rd new architecture in just 2 years to try and compete..?

    RDNA is here to stay, Turing is already dead.
     
  18. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don’t really get attached to architectures... I am fine with Turing dies if something 30%+ faster comes out.

    And you are correct, RDNA is here to stay. AMD will take RDNA, a decent arch, and run it into mediocracy like they did GCN.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 4:48 PM
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  19. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Citation please

    Citation please

    You mean embarress AMDs best efforts?

    Nice troll.
     
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  20. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    But Vega was supposed to be the next big gaming thing (and fury before that, and polaris, and... well, you get the idea), then AMD released Navi to Gamers. It's late to the party and at $400 doesn't offer any performance over Pascal's. Now AMD is going to be on their 3rd new architecture in like forever to try and compete..?

    RDNA is here to stay, becuase AMD has nothing else to offer.

    You see? it works both ways. Except this one is real :D:D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  21. Gamer X

    Gamer X Limp Gawd

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    You keep talking about the past and mocking AMD. That only works for people who are still in high school.

    Clearly, you don't want to deal with reality and what is going on right now, so you keep talking about the past. Vega is EOL and everybody knows it, but you have to bring it up, because Vega vs Turing is all you have. As such, You don't have an argument here, you are just commenting because that is what you are stuck doing, because you know very little about the subject matter. Because Nvidia and Jensen don't have anything for Dr Lisa Su's RDNA... so I doubt you, or any others on this forum do, either.


    Word games only works with children, I wish Kyle was around to tamp-down all these soothsayers. In the real world, you have to deal with facts. Here is one more:



    Stoly, you will be gaming on RDNA soon. You'll be able to sell you RTX card and buy a cheaper big-navi and get more performance. That is, if you RTX has any resale.
     
  22. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    I knew you were going to post Assetto Corsa and I couldn't agree more with them. Why would you want a racing game running at anything less than 60fps?
    IQ wise from the screenshots I've seen, RTX does look quite a bit better.

    And I won't get RDNA anytime soon if ever, not even getting a console.
     
  23. Gamer X

    Gamer X Limp Gawd

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    I forgot, your Policy doesn't allow you to buy competitor's products...
     
  24. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, it only allows me to buy the best products. When AMD does that, I'll be the first in line.