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n00b Emu 0404 question

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serge91088

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Jun 13, 2004
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I should probably be slapped silly for asking this but bear with me:
considering that the break out cable for the emu 0404 has mono red and white, left and right outputs, i have had no problem playing the emu 0404 through my monitors. i am having some trouble using them with headphones (my headphones have one 1/4" streo jack). is there a y-cable or something of the sort i could use to change the emu outputs into one streo output. thanks in advance, sorry for my stupidity
 
serge91088 said:
I should probably be slapped silly for asking this but bear with me:
considering that the break out cable for the emu 0404 has mono red and white, left and right outputs, i have had no problem playing the emu 0404 through my monitors. i am having some trouble using them with headphones (my headphones have one 1/4" streo jack). is there a y-cable or something of the sort i could use to change the emu outputs into one streo output. thanks in advance, sorry for my stupidity
Click to expand...

Probably, my solution is quite messy, but I had the pieces...

I've got two mono 1/4in jack to phono adaptors plugged into the 0404 analogue jacks, and then a stereo mini-jack to dual phono cable plugged into those.

There's a couple of other ways you could do it like that using various types of adaptors and "Y" cables/splitters, I don't know if there's a single piece solution.
 
Remember that the 0404 is unamped, so if you are looking for good sound, you'll need an amp, even a MINT or CMOY will do.
 
How's the quality on those Audiogear products? I tried some adapters from Parts Express, and they make for a very noisy output on my E-Mu 1212M.
 
I agree with Talonz, you will need some sort of amplification for decent sound. But if you have very low end headphones (Sony Streetstyles, cheap earbuds) you dont need to worry much about amplification. ;)

Since this is a n00b 0404 question thread..
Is there any way to hook up a cheap mic to one of the inputs for use in teamspeak?
 
Hmm not sure but the 0404 doesn't have a microphone preamp built-in, so to use most microphone you'll need to buy a mic preamp or something.
 
Does the 0404 have any sort of equalizer, like the Audigy's bass and treble adjustments? (it's another n00b question, figured it fit the thread) I just got some HD595's and am looking at possibly replacing my Audigy 2 ZS.
 
Yup but like everything else with the Patch mix DSP it only works at 44/48khz and there is a very steep learning curve as well. :)
 
So would I be able to listen at good volume w/ my 595's (box says 50ohm) without an amp, and with still being able to fiddle with bass and treble?

I'm quite impressed with how these new headphones sound plugged straight into my Audigy 2 ZS (and I can hear the difference from the non-ZS that I use at work), but from reading around on these forums what I'm hearing is apparently dog piss compared to these other cards.
 
no wonder you guys like these Sennheisers.. 50 Ohms! You hardly need an amp to drive those.

Once you get past the Audigy 2 ZS you get into Snobb territory. So that's prob. why you mentioned dog piss... Good headphones, like my AKG's, are high impedence (400-800 ohms)
 
Since when does low impedance = easy to drive? :confused:

(if anything the opposite is true)
 
If low impedance drivers were easier to drive, then my E-Mu 1212M should drive my 8 ohm loudspeakers quite nicely!
 
NO NO NO because your 8 ohm speakers require too much amperage.

Look at the Sennheisers - they have high sensitivity and are louder than a nice warm pair of 800 ohm AKGs. That's what I am saying.
 
I think that was his point. Regardless of the impedance, if the power requirements are high, it's going to be difficult to drive.
 
Who's point? xonik's?

We are talking about headphones in this thread. Not drivers in general.
 
I was making a point by employing an exaggeration which extended beyond the realm of headphone drivers. My point was that the ability of an amplifier to drive a speaker driver (headphone or otherwise) is dependent upon 1) current, and 2) voltage. An amplifier has to satisfy both requirements in order to physically move the voice coil of the driver. Impedance is not the best way to describe the driving requirements of a, um, driver.
 
No shit dude.

All things being equal, (notice that 80% of gamers buy the Audigy 2 ZS?) and everyone in this thread WAS talking about the EMU in the OP, the lower impedance headphones reveal a noticeably higher dB level, at the expense of THD. So we would want to start a new thread if we wanted to get into the amp.
 
You are the one that brought this whole point up but now you are telling us that we should start a new thread to discuss the merits of your point?
I don't think so....

Anyhow, how about you read this -----> http://www.rane.com/note100.html

the link above said:
Note that the maximum achievable SPL varies widely for different models and manufacturers, ranging from a low of 107 dB to a harmful 146 dB! The table also shows there is very little relationship between headphone impedance and sensitivity, and that power output alone means nothing, since in one case 80 mW produces a maximum SPL of 107 dB, yet in another case the same 80 mW yields an SPL of 124 dB!
Click to expand...

Granted said document is older then rocks and the methodology is flawed but it demonstrates a valid point.


the lower impedance headphones reveal a noticeably higher dB level
Click to expand...

Are you still so sure about that?
 
I have been talking about HEADPHONES the whole time. I did not bring amps into this.

And yes I am still sure. I think you're dislexic. Re-read your linked doc and take a look at the low impedance headphones.... they can get louder because they handle 3-4 times the power. But, I didn't say that low impedance headphones ALL have louder levels. It's just the design style of those companies. AKG's and Grados, etc have huge drivers. Like your momma!@

You can't use that SALES PAGE for your arguement, because you totally took it out of context. What they were showing you in the article (selling you, really) is that their design works well with all typed of headphones. So the paragraph you quoted is just saying that with THEIR design, you can drive high OR low impedance headphones very well.
 
Who is dyslexic here?
they can get louder because they handle 3-4 times the power
Click to expand...
LMAO

I guess the fact that "they" take 3 to 4 times the power to achieve those sound levels never occurred to you huh?
 
Look at the stupid sales page chart you linked us to, it's right there in front of you showing that WITH THE rane setup, ALL THE LOW IMPEDANCE HEADPHONES ARE LOUDER. Of course logarithmic taper of the ouput in SPL to the mW power is going to be different. Yeah the low impedance high mW phones aren't as loud at the same mW.



Go ahead, BAN ME BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p
 
What do you want him to do? Say you're right when you're not? If you actually looked at any other column than the loudness, you'd notice that the lower impedance phones also require considerably more power. (Logarithms aren't going to save you here either)

Yeah the low impedance high mW phones aren't as loud at the same mW.
Click to expand...
Wasn't this the whole point of the argument? If it takes more power to achieve the same volume, then the headphones are less sensitive, i.e. harder to drive. The idea is that sensitivity can be divorced from impedance.
 
Of course, what is the only point of a discussion? You learn.

I shouldn't even respond to such a stupid question, because I obviously read the other columns because I was just talking about the mW versus SPL in either extreme.

I don't NNED A save at all from anything... The fisr thing I claimed was that the low impedance headphones are louder. AND THEY ARE.
 
NightRaven said:
Wasn't this the whole point of the argument? If it takes more power to achieve the same volume, then the headphones are less sensitive, i.e. harder to drive. The idea is that sensitivity can be divorced from impedance.
Click to expand...

No, see that's the problem - you guys don't even know what you're argueing about. I have gone off the tracks with you a little bit only to get back to my claim that started it all...

Look at some of your own admissions.... state of confusion... huh?
 
So you said earlier, that headphones with lower impedance "reveal more dB," yet we've shown with empirical results that there is no direct causation. Of course, a rudimentary background in amplifiers (and yes, all soundcards have amplifiers in them) would tell you that power gain in dB is not solely or even mostly dependent upon load impedance.
 
Now you're twisting my words again, what's this the the third person? I never said GAIN.

That's why this has begun to get messy. There are just so many things to factor. I was never saying that it's all black and white.

Although when I worked at Mesa/Boogie, the little details, like which wires were zip-tied together, or twisted together, or a certain distance away from a cap, were all designed into the way each amplifier was hand wired, and these arguable things were taught to the wiring department because it makes a difference.
 
What do you think decibels measures?

Or do you mean to suggest that acoustical dB has some sort of measurable correlation with THD, a strictly electronic measurement?

One last question: are we supposed to be amazed by your snake-oil practices and leave our arguments at the door? That's like saying my 13-inch penis is going to win this argument, so fuck reason, experience, and third-party empirical testing.
 
What and I'm supposed to give up?

Sorry if you think something smells funny, but I am not an electronics genius... But I guess you are? I never claimed to have all the answers, but I KNOW THAT DECIBEL MEAURES SPL, AND GAIN IS THE AMPLIFICATION FACTOR. And in addition, the lot of you are just jumping all over the place pulling stuff out of your asses.

And please don't start thinking about my penis.

Oh, ok, now I know what you mean by MY snake-oil practices. Yuo have something against Mesa/Boogie...

Well I didn't design them or tell who to do what. I just worked there in High School.
 
It takes someone with "all the answers" to challenge established principles, like the idea that impedance does not really affect the acoustic output level of a headphone driver.

And decibels don't only measure SPL (it also describes voltage gain, signal-to-noise ratios, common-mode rejection ratios, etc.), and gain measures all sorts of amplification--current amplification, voltage amplification, transresistance amplification, transconductance amplification, etc. etc. So obviously there are discrepancies in using terminology because you are using them too broadly. Audio isn't just about SPL and power gain.
 
And by the way, just so I don't get any more of this [edit: Psycho-babble from xonik[...

THD is in fact absolutely audible. YOU CAN HEAR THD. And you can hear dB increases. That is the correlation.

I know that Impedance does not mean that much, but rather having a LOAD MATCH, which I may have failed to articulate in the beginning may be something that the Original Post may want to look into. I had no idea you guys would take it so seriously. You obvioulsy don't know much about Audio Electronic Engineering if you're calling twisted wires "snake-oil" At 300v (very vauge, average voltage for a tube amp) the comonents put off quite a noticeable electromagnetic field, and they DO interact with other. But you're no the Millionaire who owns Mesa/Boogie, so I wouldn't expect you to even fathom about this possibility.

And I don't have some super expensive AKG's, they are old AKG's that my dad gave me for my first 4-track when I was 13 - and WHO KNOWS how long he's had them.
 
Match what now? Output impedance to load?

That would result in a voltage of half of what the amplifier would otherwise be capable of without a load.

No, that can't be right. Instead, the output impedance is designed to be as low as possible. This is because the output impedance and load form a voltage divider,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Resistor_Divider.png

where R1 is the output impedance, and R2 is the load impedance. Minimizing the value of R1 makes the numerator as close to the denominator as possible, thus

http://en.wikipedia.org/math/60a3235f5692c75fea255c43b79940ef.png

Vout is as close to Vin as possible.

After all, drivers can only function when they receive both sufficient voltage and sufficient current. With Vout as close to Vin as possible, we can now concentrate on delivering enough current. That's for another discussion.

Nice edit there, buddy.
 
Dude you can't learn the design of audio electronics from Wikimedia... Hahahahaha

No wonder, you poor guy....

You can burn out the output transformer if your speaker is not high enough in the impedance department. You have no idea what your talking about.

And, Oh WOW you didn't edit your post! You get a gold star for the day! Just because you can find standard formulas and divide 16 and 32, you must be right...
 
charles555 said:
You can burn out the output transformer if your speaker is not high enough in the impedance department.
Click to expand...
What output transformer?

Sure you can burn out whatever transformer you're talking about, due to excessive current draw. This is why there are current ratings on transformers.

As for the validity of my calculations, I'll leave it to the other readers of this thread to decide if my calculations are sound...
 
What calculations? You just copied a link from Wikimedia and that's it!

Oh, and now I must be too stupid to read the current ratings on parts...

If you notice, we went of topic along time ago, unfortunately, so I'm telling you about output transformers, most cards using Op-mps don't use transformers - it saves them A TON of money. But many decent headphone amps will have transformers.

And I don't think anybody cares NOW, between our heated debate and your psycho-babble, which I noted previously in my edit. TAKE NOTE FOOL. And read my posts next time. You might learn something, if you're capable.
 
charles555 said:
no wonder you guys like these Sennheisers.. 50 Ohms! You hardly need an amp to drive those.
Click to expand...

Just thought I'd pop in and say that regardless of impedance, a set of headphones may be DIFFICULT to drive, yet still produce high volume. Your point is moot.
 
charles555, please stop being a jerk before I feel compelled to give you a vacation from your posting privileges, okay?
 
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