My Win 8 Experience

[Wirth'sLaw]

I've been a long time lurker here on the boards and until very recently I shared many of the sentiments about Windows 8. I apologize for the lengthy read, but I think those who look at this may understand my position.

I was able to get Win 8 Ent from Technet and decided to take my Latitude E5520 (with Samsung 830 SSD) and get 8 on it.

As a Systems Engineer at a "well known" boarding school (I will not name it) my main use is VMs. With an i5, 8GB, and an SSD this laptop worked very well in VMware WS8 + Windows 7. My initial feeling was “Hey, I’ll go for 8 and I’ll make sure I have an image of the existing 7 install just in case”.

My main hesitation was "Metro" due to its Tablet feel and how that translates to the desktop. At first glance and use it's very clunky, but I found that once I dove in a bit more the Modern UI has a thing going for it. (Note: I have said for the longest time that the Modern UI will never fly with businesses due to the “radical change” that it imposes with respect to re-training etc.)

The key is that the initial view of Modern UI is a totally customizable start menu. “All Apps” is the “All Users” start menu, and the key is it’s inherently separated. In my case I have 3 columns setup: left one for “desktop” and “weather” (San Diego weather – does it really need an app anyway?). The middle column as the Apps I use – Hyper-V, Word, Excel, Project, Visio, Excel, Powerpoint, etc., and the third column is everything else – Outlook [I don’t use Outlook on this laptop], MS Forefront Endpoint, Acrobat 9 Pro Ext., Distiller, etc..

Imagine a client where they use QB 2012, Word, Excel, and a few other LOB apps – you can totally eliminate the “Shit” from the traditional “Start Menu” that they don’t need and create a trimmed down menu. You know as well as I do that this is good for the non-technical users – it make more work for us Engineers, but it’s worth the effort.
Ultimately these “normal” users will be shocked by the lack of start button but in turn happy when they can easily find what they are looking for. For those of you like me who strive to make our lives easier by providing a simple-as-possible desktop experience for end users I would take a look at 8.

Do I like how Apps are handled and full screen IE? Not Really. Do those items have its place on a Desktop? Eh. Does Win 8 have moments where it’s more streamlined than 7? Yes. Would I recommend 8 to business in the coming months? No – it’s still a work in progress. Do I think HardOCP-ers should take a second look? Yes. Is it better than 7? That’s where the debate comes in.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to move over or assume 8 is the second coming, but I wanted to give a first-hand account of a semi-180 with respect to this OS.

 

[AMD T-type]

Been running Windows 8 Pro on my home Server/HTPC system that runs off my TV.

While I'm still using 7 on my main desktop with 4 monitors, I have to say that Metro works and looks really good on my 58" TV
And when I RDP into the server Metro has not been all "in my face" like I was dreading it would be.

So far I really have nothing bad to say about it, but I have not used it yet with more than 1 monitor and that is where it's real use to me will come to light.

 

[d4nnn]

I actually agree with everything you've said. I took a 3rd time installing windows 8 and this time taking a more closer look at its functions, and then trying to integrate it on how I do work. I found that after a while.. it was not as bad as I thought it would be. I got used to it and i found some things better than windows 7.. some things were worse obviously.

It changes the way you work, even if it is slightly and that is what makes people extremely opposed to Windows 8.

 

[Ur_Mom]

I love it. But, there are several things that still annoy me greatly. I don't think it's enterprise ready at all, but good for a home OS on desktop and/or tablet OS.

 

[heatlesssun]

I love it. But, there are several things that still annoy me greatly. I don't think it's enterprise ready at all, but good for a home OS on desktop and/or tablet OS.

I basically agree with this, Microsoft never expected businesses to upgrade to 8 as most are still trying to roll out 7.

However for business looking at tablets and currently have Windows infrastructure Windows 8 make a heck of a lot sense. It's no more disruptive than iOS or Android and the x86 versions can run existing desktop apps.

 

[heatlesssun]

Good post Wirth'sLaw.

 

[tikiman2012]

As a tablet os windows 8 would be awesome. But on a desktop it is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[d4nnn]

As a tablet os windows 8 would be awesome. But on a desktop it is absolutely ridiculous.

I just finished setting it up on my desktop. Definitely had to tweak it around so i can maintain same efficiency i had with 7. And basically what the above posters said: i do like it now, some things are annoying, and definitely not enterprise OS.

 

[daglesj]

I'm wondering if MS is now doing alternate releases for consumer and enterprise. As an os or two usually gets skipped why bother to make all of them enterprise based?

So maybe 9 will be a more desktop/enterprise orientated OS and 10 will be the tablet/consumer release.

 

[Wirth'sLaw]

Enterprise tended to skip Vista and have been testing/deploying 7 for some time now. There is no way that they will scrap the information they gathered and start anew with 8 - after all, Enterprise never adopts early (for good reason).

8 is in an interesting position because of the past. Don't get me wrong I think Enterprise will use 8 eventually, but right now 7 is too stable and predictable (in a good way) to pass up.

EDIT: I hear a lot about "Win 9 could be this or that". The fact of the matter is that 7 has become (or is becoming?) the workhorse that XP is/was for Enterprise, and if that's true it won't matter what MS has up it's sleeve for Win 9.

 

[daglesj]

Thing to remember is that XP got a real break in terms of being the only game in town for so long. Until XP MS was pushing out new operating systems nearly every 18 months to two years. That was the norm.

XP then arrived and it all went very quiet till Vista turned up several years later.

I am pleased to see MS get back to the more rapid development cycle of old. If you don't like this OS there will be another you might in a short while.

 

[heatlesssun]

As a tablet os windows 8 would be awesome. But on a desktop it is absolutely ridiculous.

I think one if the most difficult challenges that Windows 8 will have to overcome is concept of desktop OR tablet. It's really desktop AND tablet. I think that new hardware will help a lot with this because when people start using Windows 8 on a tablet and then convert that tablet to a desktop/laptop workstation with external keyboards, mice and monitors, then Windows 8's design will begin to click for a lot of folks. When you're on your laptop or hybrid tablet and then you begin to start poking the screen (it becomes a natural reflex in time) then the Start Menu and this debate will begin to fade.

But it will take time and new hardware.

 

[Monkey God]

I think one if the most difficult challenges that Windows 8 will have to overcome is concept of desktop OR tablet. It's really desktop AND tablet..

Yes, it *tries* to be desktop and tablet. But it fails. The challenge they need to overcome is not conceptual or simply a matter of convincing everyone else they are wrong and Microsoft is right, its a matter of trying to make an OS that works just as well on a Tablet as a mouse/keyboard/big monitor PC....that's their difficulty. When Microsoft can actually accomplish this, I'll be happy for them, but Windows 8 is not it.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yes, it *tries* to be desktop and tablet. But it fails. The challenge they need to overcome is not conceptual or simply a matter of convincing everyone else they are wrong and Microsoft is right, its a matter of trying to make an OS that works just as well on a Tablet as a mouse/keyboard/big monitor PC....that's their difficulty. When Microsoft can actually accomplish this, I'll be happy for them, but Windows 8 is not it.

It's not really a matter of convincing people, its a matter of people using hybrid devices which few have. Yes, there's plenty of things that need to be improved with Windows 8 and I'm pretty sure that Windows 8 will not be left in its current state for three years. Rumor has it that the next dot release of Windows 8 will be announced at the Build conference this November.

 

[Monkey God]

It's not really a matter of convincing people, its a matter of people using hybrid devices which few have....

No. If I had a Win8 tablet today, and used it like a tablet, Win8 would be fine. Its basically Microsofts version of iOS. Good enough. As a tablet, Win8 is decent. If I could take this hypothetical tablet, and plug it into a "docking station" with a big monitor and a mouse and keyboard, I would soon be angry and frustrated and be pining for Windows 7. Thats where it fails. When Microsoft fixes this, good for them. Until that time, Windows 8 is a TABLET OS, PERIOD.

 

[heatlesssun]

No. If I had a Win8 tablet today, and used it like a tablet, Win8 would be fine. Its basically Microsofts version of iOS. Good enough. As a tablet, Win8 is decent. If I could take this hypothetical tablet, and plug it into a "docking station" with a big monitor and a mouse and keyboard, I would soon be angry and frustrated and be pining for Windows 7. Thats where it fails. When Microsoft fixes this, good for them. Until that time, Windows 8 is a TABLET OS, PERIOD.

Some people are not going to like Windows 8, that's just a given. But as much as one might long for Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 runs all of the desktop application that Windows 7 does and those applications work virtually the same. Windows 7 on a tablet however, would be a much less capable experience on the tablet because you'd be forced to used to the Windows desktop which simply isn't touch optimized.

I do admit that its a bit difficult for me to see it the way you're saying because I've been constantly moving be Windows 8 devices and UI methods for so long now. This is the strength of the OS and when you do it a lot it changes how you see it. Everything is always available, same data, apps, settings, everything. There is a level of convenience here that some will appreciate.

 

[wonderfield]

Has anyone figured out a method to adjust the Classic color scheme beyond just window border colors and taskbar colors? The interface to adjust things like title bar text color and border width has apparently been removed in Windows 8.

 

[heatlesssun]

It seems like some of these options are locked out unless you use a high contract theme.

 

[daglesj]

I just bought a 64Gb PlayBook yesterday for next to nothing so I won't be getting a Windows tablet anytime soon.

 

[heatlesssun]

If a device like a Playbook satisfies your tablet needs then a Windows 8 tablet especially would probably be overkill.

 

[Decibel]

I've been running the RP exclusively on my primary work laptop for almost two months now. What I've found is that my workflow has turned into: login >> click desktop. I spend almost ZERO time in Metro. (Or whatever they're calling it now.) In fact, I'd say the only time I see much of Metro at all is running a search. I have configured my system to use none of the full screen apps. I don't use tiles at all. My day to day interaction is very much a Win7 like experience.

There have been some issues with running pre-release software, lock-ups and and the like, but by and large it's been a successful and useful OS test experience. For work I spend a lot of time in Office - Outlook, Word, Excel and Visio, which along with a few other tools have been completely compatible. The biggest pain was finding ways around a couple of Internet based tools that don't read the IE10 agent string properly, yet still don't support Chrome or Firefox.

I've blocked off time to install the Enterprise edition tomorrow. My opinion on Win 8 is simply - "meh." While I don't find Metro an improvement for a mouse and keyboard user, I understand that we IT pros will be dragged kicking and screaming along with it. I need to be in front of the curve before one of my clients decides it's time to upgrade, finally, from WinXP.

Who knows, once the Surface Pro drops I just might end up with one in my bag if I can convince our controller to let me expense one.

 

[daglesj]

If a device like a Playbook satisfies your tablet needs then a Windows 8 tablet especially would probably be overkill.

What, you want to do transcoding or video encoding on a tablet?

Web, social media, video, music, email, video chat, that's about 80 percent of what most folks do.

Well at least the PlayBook isn't an inch thick and weighs a ton like the full windows ones will be.

 

[heatlesssun]

What, you want to do transcoding or video encoding on a tablet?

No, I just want to be able to open any file, visit any web site, play all forms of video.

Well at least the PlayBook isn't an inch thick and weighs a ton like the full windows ones will be.

x86 tablets have gotten much better as thin and light ultrabook technology is going into tablets as well. The bigger issues for x86 tablets are battery life and price. It'll be interesting how to what these things are priced at say in a year. I imagine that release prices on these things will be high to take advantage of early adopters that will pay the price to be the first with a new gadget but I imagine there will a lot of pressure to get prices down especially is Windows 8 doesn't help perk up the already very sluggish PC market.

 

[MrCrispy]

Hundreds of millions of people will be forced to use Win 8 on a normal, non-touch pc or laptop over the next couple years. That's just counting new pc purchases, you can add hundreds of millions more for current users who upgrade but will obviously not buy a touch screen monitor.

All these people are going to suffer and pay the price for not having a hybrid device. Because apparently it is impossible to make an OS without tablets being the lowest common denominator for every single UI decision.

 

[heatlesssun]

All these people are going to suffer and pay the price for not having a hybrid device. Because apparently it is impossible to make an OS without tablets being the lowest common denominator for every single UI decision.

Some of these people won't like it but others are going to like Metro apps even with a conventional machine. And we really don't know now just how prevalent touch and tablets are going to become down the road in the PC world. I think these things are going to become far more common than many think. Sure it will take some time and the vast majority of devices coming out in the near future will be conventional designs but again, the PC market barely growing. New types of hardware might actually be a bigger part of this sooner rather than later. But its all guessing at this point.

 

[MrCrispy]

Some of these people won't like it but others are going to like Metro apps even with a conventional machine.

But not at the expense of making Windows so much harder to use for the average user. Metro apps are never going to be more than a niche on the pc simply because they are so limited in what they can do and don't utilize the full features of a pc.

And we really don't know now just how prevalent touch and tablets are going to become down the road in the PC world. I think these things are going to become far more common than many think. Sure it will take some time and the vast majority of devices coming out in the near future will be conventional designs but again, the PC market barely growing. New types of hardware might actually be a bigger part of this sooner rather than later. But its all guessing at this point.

This is not relevant - I'm talking about usage of pc's, not new devices. And in the majority of the world, people don't have money to buy a pc AND a tablet, its never going to happen, and neither are people going to replace their pc with a tablet. What you are describing is a 1st world scenario and even here its going to take a long time to happen if ever.

I do agree its all guessing but some things are more likely than others

 

[heatlesssun]

But not at the expense of making Windows so much harder to use for the average user. Metro apps are never going to be more than a niche on the pc simply because they are so limited in what they can do and don't utilize the full features of a pc.

But now at least Metro apps aren't meant to replace desktop and I think they can be far more than niche because they so easy to install and can have beautiful presentation that looks great on a bigger. Why does everything on a PC have to powerful and complex? Is there no place for simple, lightweight entertainment and consumptive experiences? If all a PC is good for is complex work then its going to die in the consumer space and that could every well spell trouble even in the business market.

This is not relevant - I'm talking about usage of pc's, not new devices. And in the majority of the world, people don't have money to buy a pc AND a tablet, its never going to happen, and neither are people going to replace their pc with a tablet. What you are describing is a 1st world scenario and even here its going to take a long time to happen if ever.

I do agree its all guessing but some things are more likely than others

New hardware is still the overwhelming way people get new copies of Windows, at least legal copies. And one of the propositions of Windows 8 is that one doesn't have to buy a PC and a tablet though of course for now those will be relatively expensive devices. And people are replacing PCs with tablets though those people never probably needed a PC in the fist place.

 

[BenjaminFrank]

yep, some new features like removing the start button is quite annoying actually, but greatest thing is using all your applications on tablets and desktops (unlike say Ipad) I hope MS would give us back our "Start" button in the official release of WIn8 or at least give us the option to show/hide the start button...

 

[Veilrap]

But not at the expense of making Windows so much harder to use for the average user. Metro apps are never going to be more than a niche on the pc simply because they are so limited in what they can do and don't utilize the full features of a pc.

I don't think you have any clue what an average user is if you think Windows 8 makes it harder for them.

The average user loves the simplicity of the ipad and if their computer suddenly is capable of being used in such a manner I suspect they will often end up ignoring the desktop entirely.

 

[klljm]

But now at least Metro apps aren't meant to replace desktop and I think they can be far more than niche because they so easy to install and can have beautiful presentation that looks great on a bigger. Why does everything on a PC have to powerful and complex? Is there no place for simple, lightweight entertainment and consumptive experiences? If all a PC is good for is complex work then its going to die in the consumer space and that could every well spell trouble even in the business market.

From a social and societal stand point, all that’s being tailored to are the brainless masses that couldn’t be bothered to actually put fourth even the slightest modicum of effort into LEARNING ANYTHING about their PC in the first place. I sit in a office surrounded by people who haven’t the foggiest clue as to how to even get their desktop background strecteched across all 3 screens, it makes me cringe listening to their excuses, “oh I didn’t know that could do that, I never clicked on it, what does tile mean?”

Now with Apple flooding the market with cerebrally dismal retard-only devices with the latest Fischer Price interface, people are literally demanding to not have to use their brains to do ANYTHING. 100 years from now the average 30 year old will have a brain as smooth as a porcelain sink I bet. Give me complexity any day, just so I can be one that USED the intellect that was given to me, and let the sycophants of things like metro and ios and the laziness it brings burn.

 

[heatlesssun]

Give me complexity any day, just so I can be one that USED the intellect that was given to me, and let the sycophants of things like metro and ios and the laziness it brings burn.

When used to it's fullest extent, Windows 8 is actually a pretty complex UI. I works with four primary input methods, keyboards, mice, pen and touch and they can be used simultaneously and interchangeably even on a desktop computer with the appropriate input devices. Metro apps work with keyboards and mice and the desktop can work with touch and pen.

Many so called Windows 8 reviews usually argue against Windows 8 not because it's too simple, but because it took a guy 30 minutes to figure out how to shut down the computer or dad for the first time with no help didn't know about the hot corners. And there are constant complaints about understanding the side-by-side Metro and desktop design, its repeatedly called complex and there was an article about how this represents a cognitive burden to users: http://blog.laptopmag.com/usability-expert-windows-8-on-pcs-is-confusing-a-cognitive-burden

So as much as people call Windows 8 dumbed down many of their specific criticisms seem to indicate the opposite.

 

[devil22]

I think some of you guys are looking at the enterprise area the wrong way. The best thing for corps, with their barely computer literate users in many cases, is to make things as simple as possible. While Windows 8 will require some retraining, the fact that you can place all a cubicle slave's programs on the start screen, and then they can easily click in the lower left, and then click any program they want to run using only visual memory imo will be big step up for them and make things much easier overall, once they get used to it. Then they will also see the same interface on their tablets/phones which makes things even more congruent for them. But as with most things, this is a process and will require a little time probably. Things that are changed around, like shutdown button location, or control panel, are barely used by users, so I don't think they will make much difference. I see a ton of beneficial possibilities with Windows 8 in pretty much every use case, it just requires a change of mindset to understand them all properly.

 

[heatlesssun]

I see a ton of beneficial possibilities with Windows 8 in pretty much every use case, it just requires a change of mindset to understand them all properly.

Exactly. Most Windows 8 opponents are looking at Windows 8 and trying to make it Windows 7. If you're doing that you won't like it. When you use Windows 8 AS Windows 8 its going to be perfectly fine for most people.