My RMA shenanagins (& dont you go saying 'That's what you get' :P

maro

maro

Gawd
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Aug 27, 2006
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*** Rather long-winded so I provided Cliff's version (below) for those 'On the go' or those with ADD :D ***
Recently my friend's video card went belly up. It's a 8800GTS 512 (the G92 based card not the old G80). It is an ECS brand but before you say 'that's what you get for buying the cheapest crap' I know these were all basically the same reference card with some minor bios tweaks maybe - and a new ECS sticker slapped over the original Nvidia one.

This all started around beginning of February with the card abruptly failing - first by garbled screen and characters to completely dying - refusing to even boot into windows (constant reboot or blue screens). Problem was 100 percent confirmed to be the vid card.
Card has seen heavy gaming and general computer use, but has never been modified or overclocked.

Now the ECS experience. First call they deny warranty saying that based on my s/n the card was beyond the warranty period - even though I could show exact order/delivery date of less that 18 months. After second call and some insisting, they finally send me a Case ID and RMA # and I get the card on its way to ECS.
I get an email shortly after saying they're out of stock on 8800 GTS and they offer me a NR9800GTE-512QX-F.
I was having a hard time finding anything specific but as far as I can tell it looks like a total DOWNGRADE. It has 112 stream processors instead of 128 like the 8800GTS I sent them. It appears it also runs slower core and and memory speeds.
I attempt to call and voice my concerns but again I get an unhelpful tech support who is only interested in getting me off the phone as quickly as possible and knows NOTHING of the card product line, so instead later that night I write an email and attach it to the support ticket.
Yesterday I get a voicemail saying they have already shipped that card anyway and (get this) that it is a much a faster better card than what I sent them.

Does anyone reading this have a 9800GTE? Is it indeed same or faster than a 8800GTS (G92)? Please correct me if I'm wrong but to best of my knowledge it is not.
Card is on way so unless if refuse shipment Ill be out shipping costs to return... I have half a mind to just 'bend over and take it' because it's almost not worth any more trouble (card was replaced with a GTX275 the day this all started 2 months ago :p). But as Big Worm would put it 'There's principalities' and 'Theyre playin with my emotions, Smokey'....

So here I am now, waiting on (I think) a lesser card than what I sent, and I thought I would ask your opinions or thoughts on this...IE What would YOU do in this same situation?


I've had to fight every step of the way from getting a RMA# to just trying to get a fair replacement when they finally did determine it was defective..... Perhaps that IS what I get for buying ECS (crappy customer service)?

**Cliff Note's version**

8800GTS (G92) card sent to ECS for warranty - ECS offers 9800GTE - I respond saying I want same model I sent, or one that is at least as fast as what I sent them - They respond next day saying they have already shipped the 9800GTE to me and that it IS a faster, better card in all specs.... true or BS?
What would you do? Thoughts & opinions appreciated.
 
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ME personally? I would refuse delivery and let them know that card will be coming back to them until they so decide to send you the correct card. Which is either the same model you sent in or the next up available upgrade. But thats just me, i have spare cards around so if im down one do to RMA dispute it doesnt bother me, Your circumstances might be different, it is in fact a downgrade, but now by much.
 
ECS (crappy customer service)?

@*!#!#*#!$!#$@, Oh come on. That acryomn doesn't even make sense since the first letter isn't C :).

There's so many better choices.
Exceptionally crappy service
Expect crazy shit
Excels at Crappy Service
Excretes Crummy Service
Elitest Criminal S*#@heads,
etc :)

Sounds like a rough situation though. I sympathize with you on this one. I'd agree with Shadowmonk though that you should just tell them that want an equally performing card as the one you sent in and won't accept a downgrade. Explain to them that as a customer, you feel your card failing within the warranted lifetime is not the responsibility of the customer but rather of the company's product and an inconvenience to the customer. Request to them nicely that you feel its unfair to have to expreience a lesser gaming experience on lower end hardware due to the company's product failing at no fault of your own.
 
maro said:
(& dont you go saying 'That's what you get' :p)
Click to expand...

That's what you get.:p

(You'll shoot your eye out!)

I think the 9800GTE is a lesser card. How about you accept then sell the buy a newer card?
 
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ECS you say? You're fucked. I'd just bend over and take it.

At least they didn't steal your motherboard (when they went out of business) and try to steal $40 from you *cough* ABIT (moar like TWO-BIT, amirite?)
 
maro said:
snip
...and they offer me a NR9800GTE-512QX-F.
I was having a hard time finding anything specific
snip.
Click to expand...
eh?

looks like a reference 9800GT to me. Just like the 4th link on google that points to newegg.

If you look at tomshardware graphics charts, it seems to be on par with performance.

I guess it all depends on which application you use it for.

Good luck with your shenanigans.

P.S. I thought 8800GTS and the 9800GT were basically the same card? Or am I thinking of something else?
 
8800GTS=GTS250, 8800GT=GT240

On topic: tell them to shove it up their ass. Keep calling until you get someone who knows something.

otherwise, just use the 9800 for physx.
 
9800GT/8800GT trades blows with 8800GTS
8800GTS is supposed to be a bit faster, but they do go back and forth

++ If it is a newer 9800GT, which is probably is, it should be 55nm instead of 65nm -> 8800GT, 8800GTS, and early rebadged 9800GT's were 65nm - so less power draw than the 8800GTS and a cooler temp (which you will definatley need with the single slot fairly hot 9800GT)

Quite an acceptable side-grade or RMA to me.



edit:

Alanstein said:
8800GTS=GTS250, 8800GT=GT240.
Click to expand...

False and False.

GTS250 = 9800GTX+
GT240 is new (crap... but new)
 
Suprfire said:
9800GT/8800GT trades blows with 8800GTS
8800GTS is supposed to be a bit faster, but they do go back and forth

++ If it is a newer 9800GT, which is probably is, it should be 55nm instead of 65nm -> 8800GT, 8800GTS, and early rebadged 9800GT's were 65nm - so less power draw than the 8800GTS and a cooler temp (which you will definatley need with the single slot fairly hot 9800GT)

Quite an acceptable side-grade or RMA to me.



edit:



False and False.

GTS250 = 9800GTX+
GT240 is new (crap... but new)
Click to expand...

9800GTE
550mhz Core
1800mhz Memory
112sp

8800GTS (G92)
650mhz Core
1944mhz Memory
128sp


I don't know what 8800gts you are talking about, but the G92 core with the extra shaders BLOWS away any 8800gt/9800gt in performance. ( ok maybe not blow away, but faster 100% of the time )

Yes, less power draw, cooler temps, but worst performance. They don't trade blows at all, link me if you really believe what you just wrote.
 
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ok well I took the time to look up an old 8800gt review and it shows the 8800gt on par with an 8800gtx in COD4 @1920 res. Also the 8800gts was just a couple frames slower. Since we all pretty much agree that the 9800gt is just rebranded 8800gt this should end the discussion. Its on par or better and smaller and uses less power. Sounds like they are doing right by you.
 
hossdaddy said:
ok well I took the time to look up an old 8800gt review and it shows the 8800gt on par with an 8800gtx in COD4 @1920 res. Also the 8800gts was just a couple frames slower. Since we all pretty much agree that the 9800gt is just rebranded 8800gt this should end the discussion. Its on par or better and smaller and uses less power. Sounds like they are doing right by you.
Click to expand...


Look at it again buddy, the reference 8800gt 512mb get spanked big time @ that resolution. The 8800gt that keeps up with the 8800GTX is a 1GB version that's factory overclocked from Gainward :rolleyes:

8800gts 512mb = 40 playable fps
8800gt 512mb = 28 unplayable fps

HUGE difference.
 
refuse shipment sir!

i had WD send me a raptor drive without the window, when I sent them a raptor X, I opened the RMA box, saw that it was the wrong drive, promptly called tech support and bitched, after 2 reps, i got a # for the customer support manager... he was like, "well its the same drive.... why do you care?" I said, I CARE because I paid 20 bucks extra for the window... and when I RMA something to you, I expect the same product... so after about 10 mins of bullshiting with this guy, he agreed to cover shipping costs back to them and sent me a retail boxed raptor X....

I say, if you have the time to fight with ECS, do it, otherwise just take the card
 
It will probably be more hassle then its worth to argue with ECS, accept the RMA, sell it, and then use the money to upgrade to a newer card.
 
I gave it some thought -

It is NOT an equal replacement. Had I sent them a 8800GT maybe but equal replacement as far as I can tell would have been the 9800GTX with its 128 S.P.'s and core and memory speeds more inline with what I sent them.

This is not my card - I'm only involved with helping my friend through the RMA and it's a been a pain in the ass handling this by 'proxy', so to speak (all correspondence has been through his email/ voicemail, not mine). I wanted to help since I had been the one who convinced him the ECS would probably be ok and to save a few bucks - he wanted to get a better brand but I told him not to bother, they're all the same ref. card and they're generally reliable.

I replaced the card with a GTX275 the day this happened so he has not been without all this time, and whatever they sent would have been vastly inferior. I was considering refusing the shipment but after some thought I advised my friend to just accept whatever they send and be done with it. Frankly after being denied warranty service initially I am glad to have gotten this much.

There is a silver lining though. As mentioned ealier it could be used as a dedicated PhysX card. 55nm (?) G92 running at slower clock it should be both more efficient and run much cooler so for that purpose I think it would do pretty well.
 
In this video card ranking list, scroll down to the Nvidia only section, and you'll find this:

12. Geforce GTS 250 1GB
13. Geforce 9800GTX+ 512MB/GTS250 512MB
14. Geforce 8800Ultra 768MB
15. Geforce 9800GTX 512MB
16. Geforce 8800GTX 768MB
17. Geforce 8800GTS 512MB (G92)
18. Geforce 8800GT 1GB /9800GT 1GB
19. Geforce 8800GT 512MB/9800GT 512MB/GTS240 512MB
20. Geforce 9600GT 1GB
21. Geforce 9600GT 512MB
22. Geforce GT 240 1GB
23. Geforce GT 240 512MB
24. Geforce 8800GTS 640MB
25. Geforce 8800GT 256MB
26. Geforce 8800GTS 320MB

Only significant card missing is the GTS 240, which "wins some loses some" with the 9600GT.

Please keep in mind that this particular area of performance is very heavily populated with very thin slices of performance in between cards.
 
eh, the difference is not going to be a large one. I sent back an 8800gts to BFG and got back an 8800GT OC. Which is about what you got, although maybe not the OC. My card does have the really fancy fan. All the same it is nvidia that screwed everyone with defective chips. Sucks the way ECS handled things but they probably have been taking it in the a** the past two years over these chips.
 
9800GTE is a lower power card (green) from what I can see. It's not as good as what you sent them.
 
Check the card carefully for performance, if it's less than your old one I'd phone them up, pester them for as long as you can bare, if you're not getting anywhere with the basic reps then ask for their managers number and speak to someone in charge, keep escallating the problem and you should get a satisfactory result, be polite though.

If the card is approximately on par then just accept it.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
Check the card carefully for performance, if it's less than your old one I'd phone them up, pester them for as long as you can bare, if you're not getting anywhere with the basic reps then ask for their managers number and speak to someone in charge, keep escallating the problem and you should get a satisfactory result, be polite though.

If the card is approximately on par then just accept it.
Click to expand...

its ECS.. good luck trying to be polite with them.. because honestly the only way to get anything done with their customer service is by being an asshole.. have had to deal with them way to much.. pretty much bend over and take it in the ass and move on to another company.. would of saved you a shit load of headaches.. its a rip off deal giving you a 9800GTE for an 8800GTS but atleast you got something out of it.. and no the 9800GTE does not compare at all to the 8800GTS and even the reference designed 8800GT is better then the 9800GTE performance wise.. be it 1-2 fps but its still better..
 
It will be marginally slower but possibly have no much of a difference.

When I RMA'd my 8800GT to XFX, I eventually got a 9800GTX back (after first getting a defective 8800GTX 768) and I consider myself fortunate in that case compared to what others have gone through with other vendors.
 
hence why I love evga. The card I rma'ed to them was a 7900GTO and I got back a 9800GTX. Id say that was a fair upgrade :)
 
I got about a 15% gain on average at stock speeds when I went from a 8800GT to an 8800GTS. The GTS is a bit faster clock for clock and has a higher clock speed. It also seems to overclock better too, mine hit like 815 or something like that. You should get either another 8800GTS, or a 9800GTX.
 
bluejrag0n38 said:
It will probably be more hassle then its worth to argue with ECS, accept the RMA, sell it, and then use the money to upgrade to a newer card.
Click to expand...
+1
Any card is better than no card. Given the hassle leading up to the acceptance of the RMA by ECS, I think if I were in your shoes, I'd take the card. Having said that, I'd speak with my wallet on all my purchases going foward. I actually stopped buying anything ECS about a year ago because the RMA process was rather convoluted (you had to send an e-mail and wait till you got assigned a case number. Only then, could you talk to tech support to get an actual RMA#. It was just too much trouble). If I'm spending my hard earned dollars on a product, which turns out to be defective within the warranty period, the last thing I want for being a loyal customer is inconvienience due to bullshit policy. I had a similar issue years ago with Visiontek.....I haven't purchased anything from them since. I don't care what the price is.
 
Most everyone has a horror story with RMA at some point. In my case, the last time I bought anything Gigabyte was a 6800GT that never ran without artifacts. After nearly a year, shipping back and forth, using their crappy RMA process they finally gave me a 7600GT. Not nearly as fast, but I was happy to have something that finally worked (besides the ATI card I replaced it with already).
 
SuicidalGoat said:
Most everyone has a horror story with RMA at some point. In my case, the last time I bought anything Gigabyte was a 6800GT that never ran without artifacts. After nearly a year, shipping back and forth, using their crappy RMA process they finally gave me a 7600GT. Not nearly as fast, but I was happy to have something that finally worked (besides the ATI card I replaced it with already).
Click to expand...
7600GT is faster.
 
Here's an update. Im over at friend's house now. The card arrived Friday and is the 9800GTE. I have a vanilla 8800GT in my old gaming rig I can compare it to. When I have a lil time to kill I'll run a couple diff bench's and see what we get. More for fun and out of general curiousity since I think we have established where it stands in the G92 lineup. I'll post results when I'm done...
 
the green 9800's make great physix cards since they dont' require additional power.
 
Well I had some time to play around with this 9800GTE and here are the results.

GPU-Z says it is a G92 rev A2 chip 65nm 112 shaders (identical to my old 8800GT), however it's clocked at 550 core 900 memory and 1300 shader clock. My 8800GT is 600 core 900 mem and 1500 shader, and the GTS is around 650 core 970 mem and 1625 shader... Anyway we already expected this so on to the numbers.

I ran 4 different benchmarks that I often use to doublecheck performance. It's not FRAPS and one is so old it's hardly relevant but it will (should) illustrate the difference in cards. I do not have a GTS lying around handy to run current tests on it so this is between the 9800GTE and 8800GT - we will have to assume the GTS to be faster than the GT, even if only marginally.
Computer is my old gaming rig - a Q9550 running at 3.7ghz with 4gb DDR2 at around 900mhz. Vista 64 O/S. Resolution was run at 1600x1200 all other settings left the same between the two for as accurate a comparison as possible.

First test UT2003's benchmark utility (very old maybe even irrelevant these days but I still like to use it)
8800GT = 567 flyby / 201 botmatch average FPS
9800GTE = 569 flyby / 201 botmatch
Next is Trackmania United's built in benchmark utility
8800GT = 188 average
9800GTE = 183
Lost Coast video stress test
8800GT = 122 FPS
9800GTE = 115
Far Cry 2 benchmark utility (1600x1200 high/ultra settings using d3d10)
8800GT = 30.42 avg with a 48 max and 23 min
9800GTE = 29.41 with 45 max 22 min

All (except FC2 which does it for me) are averages of 3 runs each.

Even though the 9800GTE seemed like it may be much slower on paper the difference is minimal between it and the 8800GT. I think we can assume higher numbers (even if only slightly) from the 8800GTS and confidently discount the claim from ECS tech that the 9800GTE is "faster and better in all respects than the 8800GTS it is replacing".

ECS has not closed the ticket, though. I was told today that they have attempted to contact him so there is a chance they may still make this right... Will post more if anything changes.
 
These bait and switch warranties seem to be happening a lot these days.

I hope you get it worked out.
 
frankly I'm shocked they sent you anything.

not because you dont deserve it but because its ECS
 
I wanted to post the final chapter to this story. It has taken several weeks, using what I call the 'three P's' principle with various CSR techs and emails. Patient, Professional, and Polite. My friend says it's more like the one P (acting like a P*ssy) principle hahaha.... :/

After insisting nothing less than a 9800GTX or another 8800GTS would be fair I was told they're in short supply of those (this I can believe because I'm under the impression theyre getting alot of these early G92's back)...

Anyway they've offered a GTS250 which IMO is far beyond what I've sent and a more than fair replacement!!
So though it has taken a long time and has been a bit difficult, ECS did come through.

Have not received card yet and will need to arrange a call tag to return the 9800GTE but that is being worked out now... Will post again if something changes but I think this matter has finally closed (WHEW!)
 
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