My PC is always doing something (VISTA)

[zombix]

I can not pin point it down but my PC is always do something in the background and im afraid its hurting my performance in games.

I hit task manager and it says nothing, nothing is listed at all.

Is vista like this for others? Or am i just one of the unlucky people with a bummed out os that i cant do anything about?

 

[zombix]

OMG it finaly stopped i guess it was seeing me post this.

 

[rush24t3]

It's probably indexing your hard drive, part of the new Windows Search, or doing a System Restore point, or, or...

 

[Grimlaking]

Vista does a lot in the background but it only does it when it has free cycles.. a lot like running seti at home.

 

[jtzako]

Vista does its indexing and defrag etc in "low I/O priority" mode.. it should not affect games since they will take priority on all HDD read/writes.

Vista indexes quite a bit after initial load, and sometimes after you load new software. It usually stops or dies down eventually.

 

[OSUguy98]

Vista does a lot in the background but it only does it when it has free cycles.. a lot like running seti at home.

Anyone know how this effects the distributed computing clients (F@H, UD, Seti,etc)?



Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

 

[Grimlaking]

Good question.. I wonder if one of those running would keep vista from doing it's tuning.

 

[OSUguy98]

or vice versa


Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

 

[Grentz]

Its indexing, defragging, system restore points, etc. Vista keeps its home clean unlike XP that just let things get to be a mess.

As said above, its all done in low priority so if you are doing something like gaming it will not cause any loss of performance.

 

[ChingChang]

Anyone know how this effects the distributed computing clients (F@H, UD, Seti,etc)?

Good question.. I wonder if one of those running would keep vista from doing it's tuning.

I run F@H on both cores on my computer. Been using vista for about a month. They don't really affect each other too much. I'll just quote what I said in the other thread instead of retyping it :}

I don't think it really affects it much

60 second average =
Core1 at 94%
Core2 at 88%

that's with a lot of extra things going in the background too, including Performance Monitor, utorrent and lots of Firefox

If you're not using the computer it's going to be higher (FAH %) since superfetch and other processes won't need to be doing anything

Also, Vista indexes certain folders for faster searching. But after everything in those folders have been indexed, it won't index them ever again. You can also disable this or change the locations if you wanted..
Even while it's indexing it shouldn't even be using much anyway. It's very low priority. It's mostly disk usage too, not CPU.

 

[GreNME]

I have yet to track down the method or the processes being followed, but I am beginning to think that Vista does some sort of "tuning" to itself to better run on the hardware on which it was installed. I can't confirm it yet, and have found very little on the subject, so I've mostly been grudgingly silent on the matter. It may be happening in a similar fashion to how the DLL randomization works, possibly doing it with prefetch optimizing and moving system executables closer to each other.

However, I may be experiencing skewed results. I'm also running Windows OneCare, which has a "tune up" feature that runs every week to clean out my temp junk, defrags the drive, and then checks for viruses and virus-like behavior.

 

[bbz_Ghost]

We've been discussing this ad nauseum for months now. Here are the relevant points:

- Yes, Vista is a self-tuning OS unlike any that's ever existed before
- Yes, at first Vista will seem like it's never completely idle as it begins the indexing process for the first 1-2 weeks, how long precisely depends on the machine and the number of files as well as how much you use the machine
- Yes, Vista does use more RAM than any other OS ever made because it actively caches data in that RAM you paid for to speed up not only application load times (SuperFetch) but also to use more RAM for lessening the need to hit the pagefile (ReadyBoost in conjunction with a supported Flash-RAM based device)
- Yes, Vista seems like it's big and bloated in the extremes but by and large you should notice roughly the same level of desktop application performance if not a big boost compared to XP because of the advanced SuperFetch and ReadyBoost capabilities over XP
- Yes, some gaming performance will suffer but that's not Vista's fault - it's directly attributed to video drivers that still simply haven't matured enough to fully exploit the new OS, blame ATI and Nvidia, not Microsoft
- Yes, Aero does not affect gameplay - as long as the game is played full screen. There is a chance just a chance that if you play games windowed you might have some performance hit - but that happens to games played in a window regardless
- Yes, Vista is still relatively new and because of that a lot of people will chow down on it for every little thing even if the OS itself isn't to blame
- Yes, your PC will seemingly do stuff during idle times because as stated earlier Vista is not an idle OS - it will always be keeping an eye on itself and finding ways to improve the end-user performance but not to the detriment of gaming, multimedia, etc which is a myth that could stand to be quelled
- Yes, Vista does all it's self-tuning in the background with a new type of low level I/O operations that simply STOP what they're doing when it comes to user intervention or a user operation which will always take precedence
- Yes, Vista is aware of things like Folding@Home, etc, and will not causes issues with applications that run primarily in idle priority
- Yes, I could go on but that's enough for now

Hope this helps...

 

[GreNME]

- Yes, Vista is a self-tuning OS unlike any that's ever existed before

But can you quantify how? For example, I know the user logon screen is more secure now because it operates at a completely different run level than the XP/2000 screen did, more segregated from the OS itself, but the reason I know this is because I found some obscure documentation on that fact that was actually designed to be read by developers. (Yes, I need to find the documentation again for later use. I was searching for an answer to a different question at the time)

- Yes, at first Vista will seem like it's never completely idle as it begins the indexing process for the first 1-2 weeks, how long precisely depends on the machine and the number of files as well as how much you use the machine

Yeah, I heard about this, but I never confirmed it. Thanks for refreshing my memory on that.

- Yes, Vista does use more RAM than any other OS ever made because it actively caches data in that RAM you paid for to speed up not only application load times (SuperFetch) but also to use more RAM for lessening the need to hit the pagefile (ReadyBoost in conjunction with a supported Flash-RAM based device)

I remain skeptical about the ReadyBoost until I see more market examples. I'm usually not an early adopter of bleeding-edge stuff, hence my questions on Vista.

- Yes, Vista seems like it's big and bloated in the extremes but by and large you should notice roughly the same level of desktop application performance if not a big boost compared to XP because of the advanced SuperFetch and ReadyBoost capabilities over XP

I'd say a "big boost" is kind of stretching it, but I confirm the roughly equal performance.

- Yes, some gaming performance will suffer but that's not Vista's fault - it's directly attributed to video drivers that still simply haven't matured enough to fully exploit the new OS, blame ATI and Nvidia, not Microsoft

Yeah, I'm noticing a .625 frame-per-second loss on Total Annihilation. It kills the whole experience for me.

- Yes, Aero does not affect gameplay - as long as the game is played full screen. There is a chance just a chance that if you play games windowed you might have some performance hit - but that happens to games played in a window regardless

Doesn't Aero get shut off or something during gameplay?

- Yes, Vista is still relatively new and because of that a lot of people will chow down on it for every little thing even if the OS itself isn't to blame

Otherwise there would be less of a need for this forum, methinks.

- Yes, your PC will seemingly do stuff during idle times because as stated earlier Vista is not an idle OS - it will always be keeping an eye on itself and finding ways to improve the end-user performance but not to the detriment of gaming, multimedia, etc which is a myth that could stand to be quelled

Yeah, good luck there. Don't worry-- the complaints will begin to die down right about the time the next version of Windows is released.

- Yes, Vista does all it's self-tuning in the background with a new type of low level I/O operations that simply STOP what they're doing when it comes to user intervention or a user operation which will always take precedence

Once again, I'm curious as to how that's happening.

Hope this helps...

Well, it cleared up one thing for me: I have more research than I originally thought regarding Vista.

 

[Catweazle]

But can you quantify how? For example, I know the user logon screen is more secure now because it operates at a completely different run level than the XP/2000 screen did, more segregated from the OS itself, but the reason I know this is because I found some obscure documentation on that fact that was actually designed to be read by developers. (Yes, I need to find the documentation again for later use. I was searching for an answer to a different question at the time)

I'm also curious to hear more detailed explanation of the "how?" I know it works, because I've seen the evidence. But a clear, everyday explanation of the "how" escapes me yet.

Doesn't Aero get shut off or something during gameplay?

That one I understand a little better. Technically it doesn't "shut off" so much as it isn't called into action. And it's not something specific to games. It's related to applications running in fullscreen. Run a game in windowed mode and Aero will still be in operation. Maximise an application and the transparencies will be gone. Use 3D flip with an application running fullscrenn and Aero gets called on again....

I suspect it's related to themes implementation somehow. I've seen mention recently of a user created Vista theme which enables transparency for fullscreen apps, and suspect that with it active Aero would also be active whilst games were running.

 

[JVC]

I can not pin point it down but my PC is always do something in the background and im afraid its hurting my performance in games.

I hit task manager and it says nothing, nothing is listed at all.

Is vista like this for others?

it is for me. but i noticed it stops when i open something else. like people say, vista does stuff in the background. kind of annoying, to me.

 

[Catweazle]

... kind of annoying, to me.

You'd prefer, maybe, that it shoved a big, red 'STOP' sign in your face and yelled out

"MY TURN"

??????????

 

[JVC]

i was thinking about that a while ago. maybe yes, like lotus 1-2-3 in the dos era. like the blinking BUSY! (not sure about if the word is "busy" tho.) that would be more "honest" ?!

 

[ilkka]

i was thinking about that a while ago. maybe yes, like lotus 1-2-3 in the dos era. like the blinking BUSY! (not sure about if the word is "busy" tho.) that would be more "honest" ?!

No, it wouldn't. It's not busy. It's doing stuff, but it's ready to do whatever you want it to do, so it's not actually busy.

 

[theriverlethe]

I'm also curious to hear more detailed explanation of the "how?" I know it works, because I've seen the evidence. But a clear, everyday explanation of the "how" escapes me yet.



That one I understand a little better. Technically it doesn't "shut off" so much as it isn't called into action. And it's not something specific to games. It's related to applications running in fullscreen. Run a game in windowed mode and Aero will still be in operation. Maximise an application and the transparencies will be gone. Use 3D flip with an application running fullscrenn and Aero gets called on again....

I suspect it's related to themes implementation somehow. I've seen mention recently of a user created Vista theme which enables transparency for fullscreen apps, and suspect that with it active Aero would also be active whilst games were running.

I can very clearly see it "shut off" and revert to Windows Basic when I run a game or incompatible app, and then "come back" when I exit that app. This does not happen when I maximize a Window.

 

[Catweazle]

You're retaining transparency on title bar and taskbar when you maximise an app?

 

[eeyrjmr]

- Yes, Vista does use more RAM than any other OS ever made because it actively caches data in that RAM you paid for to speed up not only application load times (SuperFetch) but also to use more RAM for lessening the need to hit the pagefile (ReadyBoost in conjunction with a supported Flash-RAM based device)

very bold statement and not quite true.
Vista does not use more RAM then any other OS ever made ( unless you are talking abt the OS's RAM overhead, non-cache)... other OS's have cached RAM long before MS caught onto it

 

[theriverlethe]

You're retaining transparency on title bar and taskbar when you maximise an app?

No, the titlebar and interface darken, but I still have all the Aero animations, and the theme does not visibly switch to Windows Basic as it does when I open an incompatible/conflicting program.

 

[Modred189]

I can very clearly see it "shut off" and revert to Windows Basic when I run a game or incompatible app, and then "come back" when I exit that app. This does not happen when I maximize a Window.

Not all apps are compatible with Aero. My dvd software, for example, isn't, and Vista reverts to Basic theme while it is open. As soon as I close it, it reverts back. I don't mind, and I don't really notice unless I have an open window in my other monitor.

The questions remains, however, what makes an app compatible or not with aero?

 

[ChingChang]

You're retaining transparency on title bar and taskbar when you maximise an app?

Aero still runs when things are maximized.. it shuts off when games are in full screen. Full screen video does not turn aero off.

 

[Catweazle]

Yeah, my bad. The only thing Vista really refers to as 'Aero' is 'Windows Vista theme' + Aero transparency.

Themes are Windows Vista and Windows Classic. Colour schemes are Windows Aero, Windows Vista Basic, Windows Standard and Windows Classic.

It is 3D apps which make Aero 3D step aside, not fullscreen mode. Sorry about that. When and if we see 3D productivityapplications they'll not suffer any performance hit either, just as 3D games don't.

 

[bbz_Ghost]

very bold statement and not quite true.
Vista does not use more RAM then any other OS ever made ( unless you are talking abt the OS's RAM overhead, non-cache)... other OS's have cached RAM long before MS caught onto it

Yeah well, you know me: I run Vista, do you? I wonder...

Besides, I've never seen OSX or any Linux distro take 450MB or more after booting to the Desktop, soooo... on those grounds my statement was "quite true." See, what most people don't get about Vista is that it remembers what was previously cached in the last working session and repopulates the RAM with the same data that existed in the SuperFetch cache again after the machine boots.

People wonder why when they reboot their machines things seem to be really happening after the Desktop appears - that's the reason: SuperFetch is repopulating the RAM with the cached data from the previous session to keep it all working smoothly. If you have a ReadyBoost device you'll notice a lot of activity there also as the ReadyBoost cache is repopulated as well with data from the previous session also. Every reboot does this.

Linux distros, UNIX, OSX, etc, they all cache data when the data is first requested and if you reboot the computer (hey, it happens, yanno), the RAM isn't used again until the applications are requested once again thereby populating the cache at that time. I boot a Linux distro or OSX or whatever, and get 190MB of RAM usage at the Desktop, load up some apps to push it into the 500MB range or more, then shut them down and reboot - it's roughly 190MB at the Desktop after I reboot.

Vista is ahead of that curve and actively makes sure the data is cached regardless of the time or number of boots involved. Load a program one time and from that moment on as long as the RAM is available it'll be cached into SuperFetch from that point on and even across reboots. I populate the cache by loading up several applications and push the working cache set to 500MB or more, shut it all down and reboot, when I come back up it's roughly 500MB or more once again because the SuperFetch cache is right back where it was pre-reboot.

I'd say that would definitely indicate Vista uses more RAM than any other OS to date.

"quite true," indeed.

 

[marcusj3000]

Yeah well, you know me: I run Vista, do you? I wonder...

Besides, I've never seen OSX or any Linux distro take 450MB or more after booting to the Desktop, soooo... on those grounds my statement was "quite true." See, what most people don't get about Vista is that it remembers what was previously cached in the last working session and repopulates the RAM with the same data that existed in the SuperFetch cache again after the machine boots.

People wonder why when they reboot their machines things seem to be really happening after the Desktop appears - that's the reason: SuperFetch is repopulating the RAM with the cached data from the previous session to keep it all working smoothly. If you have a ReadyBoost device you'll notice a lot of activity there also as the ReadyBoost cache is repopulated as well with data from the previous session also. Every reboot does this.

Linux distros, UNIX, OSX, etc, they all cache data when the data is first requested and if you reboot the computer (hey, it happens, yanno), the RAM isn't used again until the applications are requested once again thereby populating the cache at that time. I boot a Linux distro or OSX or whatever, and get 190MB of RAM usage at the Desktop, load up some apps to push it into the 500MB range or more, then shut them down and reboot - it's roughly 190MB at the Desktop after I reboot.

Vista is ahead of that curve and actively makes sure the data is cached regardless of the time or number of boots involved. Load a program one time and from that moment on as long as the RAM is available it'll be cached into SuperFetch from that point on and even across reboots. I populate the cache by loading up several applications and push the working cache set to 500MB or more, shut it all down and reboot, when I come back up it's roughly 500MB or more once again because the SuperFetch cache is right back where it was pre-reboot.

I'd say that would definitely indicate Vista uses more RAM than any other OS to date.

"quite true," indeed.

You are right because Vista Ultimate on my system allocates 1GB of my 3GB of ram for it's own usage such as superfetch.

 

[eeyrjmr]

Yeah well, you know me: I run Vista, do you? I wonder...

Besides, I've never seen OSX or any Linux distro take 450MB or more after booting to the Desktop, soooo... on those grounds my statement was "quite true." See, what most people don't get about Vista is that it remembers what was previously cached in the last working session and repopulates the RAM with the same data that existed in the SuperFetch cache again after the machine boots.

People wonder why when they reboot their machines things seem to be really happening after the Desktop appears - that's the reason: SuperFetch is repopulating the RAM with the cached data from the previous session to keep it all working smoothly. If you have a ReadyBoost device you'll notice a lot of activity there also as the ReadyBoost cache is repopulated as well with data from the previous session also. Every reboot does this.

Linux distros, UNIX, OSX, etc, they all cache data when the data is first requested and if you reboot the computer (hey, it happens, yanno), the RAM isn't used again until the applications are requested once again thereby populating the cache at that time. I boot a Linux distro or OSX or whatever, and get 190MB of RAM usage at the Desktop, load up some apps to push it into the 500MB range or more, then shut them down and reboot - it's roughly 190MB at the Desktop after I reboot.

Vista is ahead of that curve and actively makes sure the data is cached regardless of the time or number of boots involved. Load a program one time and from that moment on as long as the RAM is available it'll be cached into SuperFetch from that point on and even across reboots. I populate the cache by loading up several applications and push the working cache set to 500MB or more, shut it all down and reboot, when I come back up it's roughly 500MB or more once again because the SuperFetch cache is right back where it was pre-reboot.

I'd say that would definitely indicate Vista uses more RAM than any other OS to date.

"quite true," indeed.

well you havn't use linux much have you... Vista is playing catchup, such a thing is old
for starters I run a script that pre-loads what I want into RAM during booting
Likewise FC6 comes with something called read-ahead which does the same same thing.
https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/readahead/browser/README

After boot 1.5Gig of my 2Gig is used

 

[Modred189]

Could all this explain my issues with my laptop?
I installed Vista Ultimate on my laptop (see sig) and bought a 1G SD card for readyboost. When i plug it in, the CPU runs at 100%. I wonder if it's because it's setting up superfetch and readyboost?

I'll leave the sucker plugged in overnight to see....

 

[Catweazle]

... Vista is playing catchup, such a thing is old...

You've misunderstood the comments. The principles Vista's Readyboost uses operate according to different concepts than the ones you descrtibe. I'd suggest you read it all again.

 

[bbz_Ghost]

for starters I run a script that pre-loads what I want into RAM during booting

Meaning the OS doesn't do it natively, you did by creating a batch file to accomplish the same goal Vista does inherently. No big deal.

Likewise FC6 comes with something called read-ahead which does the same same thing.
https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/readahead/browser/README

After boot 1.5Gig of my 2Gig is used

You mean FC6, as in the latest version, as in something new, right alongside Vista? Yeah, thought so.

Anyway, as for me running Linux, I was using Slackware and helping with documentation before the project even chose the name "Slackware" in the first place, so... yes, I've been "messing with" Linux for a very very long time.

Let's not derail this thread as is so often the case in such situations. Agree to disagree, state our opinions, move on... this shit gets old being rehashed so fuckin' much around here.

Vista is outstanding for those that choose to use it.

Linux distros are outstanding for those that choose to use it.

OSX is outstanding for those that choose to use it.

'Nuff typed.

 

[Modred189]

Could all this explain my issues with my laptop?
I installed Vista Ultimate on my laptop (see sig) and bought a 1G SD card for readyboost. When i plug it in, the CPU runs at 100%. I wonder if it's because it's setting up superfetch and readyboost?

I'll leave the sucker plugged in overnight to see....

The answer is YES. I did not have to leave it plugged in overnight either. After about an hour and a half of sitting on my table, leaving it alone, it throttled back down. I also noticed the little blue SD card slot activity light (which hadn't functioned under XP) was going nuts. Now, it's quiet.

Hooray for readyboost!

 

[nessus]

Mark Russinovich (formerly of Sysinternals) is doing a series of in-depth articles for the online Microsoft Technet magazine.

For plenty of detail on the Vista kernel as compared to the XP kernel, read these:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/02/VistaKernel/default.aspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/03/VistaKernel/default.aspx

A third will be coming out next month, then this link should be valid:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/VistaKernel/default.aspx

Should answer all the kernel related discussions.

 

[bbz_Ghost]

nessus:

Outstanding information, thanks for sharing the links. Already printed parts 1 and 2 and will keep checking back for part 3.

 

[Hypernova]

Can someone make a sticky of the Vista ram and indexing feature? We are getting like 3 threads a week asking about them and as more people get Vista it's only going to get worse.

 

[KompressorV12]

I remember 6 years ago when XP came out and people started to uproar about the huge 128mb recomended system requirement. By the end of the year when 1.5-2gb is pretty standard for new computers I want to look back on this whole "I have 512mb of ram which is plenty and my vista is slow" mess and laugh

the real fun will begin in a couple of years when everyone is starting to move beyond 4gb only to realize that they need to buy the 64 bit version of vista <-- THAT will be fun

 

[ChingChang]

the real fun will begin in a couple of years when everyone is starting to move beyond 4gb only to realize that they need to buy the 64 bit version of vista <-- THAT will be fun

"hey guys I just bought 8GB of RAM but windows doesn't even show 4!! what is going on!"

 

[jldavid]

nessus:

Outstanding information, thanks for sharing the links. Already printed parts 1 and 2 and will keep checking back for part 3.

A Part 3 "preview" is already available on the Microsoft site:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/VistaKernel/default.aspx

 

[bbz_Ghost]

Danke for the linkage, jldavid. Printed that also.