My New Samsung 215tw

J

jimbo.jones

n00b
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
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I've had my 215tw for two days, I'm very impressed with the monitor, the colors are very vibrant and it has great picture quality.

The only problem is the input lag issue :(

I have installed NVTweak and changed the direct input setting number from 3 to 2, 1 and many others. I've noticed an improvement over 3 but lag is still noticeable. I'd really like to use the monitor to play BF2 and other games online but the input lag issue is just terrible :(

I have the XFX 7800GS video card (latest drivers), 1 gig corsair memory, 3.2 gig prescott

Are there any other tweaks or fixes I can try?

Thanks for any help you can give :)
 
call samsung and tell them. they need to know that its a wide-spread problem and that their customers will not tollerate it.

i really cant believe this. i was going to get the 215tw, because it should be a much better screen then the 225bw. however, no matter how bad the backlight bleed on the 225 there is nothing worse then input lag!

clearly these are the first batch of samsungs new monitors. im actually glad that i bought the 225bw now over the 215, and thats sad considering their respective class ranges.

there is no excuse for input lag on a monitor. samsung will replace it, but again who knows if the replacement will be any better. something tells me it will be another 6 months before the kinks are worked out of these new gen monitors. truly sad.
 
Just out of curiosity...what kind of mouse are you using? I've heard that wireless mice are the worst for lcd's and that something faster and corded is better. Personally I am using a corded Razer Diamondback 1600dpi on an Acer F-20 as well as a Dell 2007FPW and I don't notice any input lag whatsoever. I'm sure that if the panel has inherent lag a fast mouse won't totally cure the problem, but it would be worth a shot to see if it helps..
 
Thanks for that post Krupted. You say "Samsung will replace the monitor"? This puts my mind at ease if that's the case. I'll contact them and express my disappointment.

I'm using the MX518 mouse with the monitor (corded mouse)

Great monitor, just the input lag! :mad:
 
I'm not really seeing this with my 215TW. I'm using a brand new machine with a cordless mouse. What sort of things are you doing when you have the input lag? Is it with gaming? Anything else? I'm not a gamer, so this might not affect me.
 
I am also baffled by the input lag issue complaints. I have two of the 215TW's now and have not seen it on either. What do you do when you notice input lag?
 
I have this monitor, bought it a few months ago. I had imput lag with a ball mouse here at work. I took it home, pluged in my Logitech G5, and there was no more lag. I play BF2 and other FPS on this monitor and none seem to have noticable lag.
 
I am baffled why people fail to realize that many issues like Input lag are noticed by some people and not by others. It depends how sensitive you are to the effect.

I owned a Dell 2405. It lagged badly. It is not an input device issue, it is the display taking extra time to update. I had it side by side with a CRT. It was obvious that it didn't lag on CRT but did on LCD. Yet there are alway people insisting that it doesn't lag on their 2405. That is BS. They just don't notice. New mice don't fix it, because you can demo with clocks running in clone mode or simply straddling a mouse across the CRT and LCD and moving it up/down. The lag has nothing to do with the input device. It is the monitor that is lagging and displaying late.

The real issue is whether the individual in question can notice a ~30+ms lag in the display that is common on the worse displays. Over and over the worse reported display are Samsung PVA screens. Samsung may replace your screen, but it will still do the same thing.

There are two real choices. Get used to it, or get a different screen.
 
samsung didnt ask me any questions when i asked for a replacement. all i told them was my screen had backlight bleed at the top and bottom, and it was worse then ive ever seen on an lcd screen. it was an immediate "we can exhange it at no cost". the guy was extremely helpful and polite. mind you though, i had just bought the monitor the day before. i dont think they would be that willing to help if the screen is a few months or a year old.


it seems that the screens with input lag are just because the video hardware inside the screen simply isnt fast enough to convert and display in real time. i think its why the 24" screens are showing lag, because they take more processing power to display.

the lag probably wouldnt be an issue if people were just watching tv or movies, but when you have fast paced games there is no way you can play with any sort of lag like that. there is no right for manufacturers to sell screens that lag. its like your speedometer on your car telling you that you were speeding 5 seconds after you actually sped. you still get the ticket, life still sucks even though the speedometer technically works.
 
Hey

Thanks for all your comments

I notice the input lag in windows, oblivion, half life 2, hl2 episode one, soldier of fortune 2 multiplayer. These are the only games I have at the moment but input lag is prevalent in everything. the same lag, I can put up with it in single player but multiplayer is unplayable.

What about user Urgpurg? He installed NVTweak just like I did, changed his direct input setting and "no longer noticed any input lag in other games like quake/hl2/war3/oblivion" Could this be the case or is it more likely he is not as sensitive to the lag? As he goes on to say there are more tweaks available. Reading an article at wikipedia.com there was still no definitive reason to what causes input lag, as it might be to do with computer.
 
theres a youtube video showing the lag of the 215. it may not be all of them, who knows. it showed it by clicking and holding on a window and dragging fast back and forth across the desktop. on a different monitor, set right next to it you could clearly tell there was no lag, but the 215 was just a millisecond behind. it was pretty obvious when compared like that, its probably just not noticeable to causual players. it probably wouldnt be noticeable in standard 2d apps.
 
I don't think it is input lag as much as it is response. The 215tw is not a competitive gaming panel. If you really want to test if lag really exists you should try similar panels with similar response. Lag doesn't make sense to me. Mouse movement is governed by mouse drivers which is then sent through the processing pipeline to the panel. The panel doesn't process information it only displays what is sent to it.
 
of course it processes information. each panel takes the video signal and adapts it to the specific lcd its running. these screens that are lagging are not about response times for the lcd crystals. its a video input lag much like of those you get with many video-capture cards.
 
Until there is a controlled test, I ain't gonna believe it. What monitor is being compared (TN's by chance) and what system are you using (CPU and video card). Is it the 215tw specifically that's the problem or S-PVA panels in general. Why is it that every review I read of the 215tw never mentioned input lag? And this was a widely reviewed monitor. I know it sure as h*ll ain't gonna perform as well as a CRT. I own both a 215TW and a NEC fe2111sb CRT so I know first hand. If you want superior gaming performance then why even look at the 215tw.
 
No problems here on my end, either...

I've played competitive fps for last 10+ years, so I'm a pretty good judge of response time, and havent experienced bad input lag on my 215TW. I came from a 19" Mitsubishi 930SB CRT to this LCD, and haven't had any issues at all.

Maybe some of you are having problems, but the few 215TW's ive seen (including mine), haven't had this issue.

I could see this happening with people running games at the native 1680x1050 without having the hardware power to back them up. I had some lag issues in a few FPS games at that native res (due to high CPU/GPU reqs at that resolution), but unless you have a pretty powerful card or SLI/Crossfire, you might be seeing video card stutter and frame skipping, rather than input lag.
 
nullvector said:
Maybe some of you are having problems, but the few 215TW's ive seen (including mine), haven't had this issue.
Click to expand...

thats good to hear. it doesnt seem like its every panel, more likely a bad batch or something. it doesnt seem like a pc hardware problem, these guys had the two screens hooked to the same pc.
 
krupted said:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=0&t=335044&page=5

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001078

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=63339&page=93

heres the video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC4gCre1xrA

and another video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVqdrz73dGU

a google search does wonders. there are other people that bought that monitor besides ones on this forum.
Click to expand...

All forum stuff. And there is plenty in this forum too. I've read 'em and I've seen the youtube recordings. Still no comparison of particular panels and no comparative discussion of systems used. All this creates a group-think that the Sammy has input problems when the issue could be elsewhere. I think it's an LCD response issue that can be affected by slow systems, slow video cards and people going from fast panels to a slower one like the Sammy.
 
where else are people going to report problems? the forums are the best places to get immediate feedback on screens.

also, how can it be their computers when every other monitor they have had doesnt have the lag? why do they only notice it now?

its great that yours does not have the problem, im just pointing out that there are numerous complaints. and its not like these posters know eachother, im sure they would have been much happier if they never noticed the lag.
 
Greenwit said:
The panel doesn't process information it only displays what is sent to it.
Click to expand...

Panel itself may not, but the wholeness of display does. They do process, overdrive/whatever does processing which causes lag. Other things may also be present, like that video processing chip (faroujda or something like that) of dell 2x07wfp which got disabled because it caused banding.
 
Greenwit said:
All this creates a group-think that the Sammy has input problems when the issue could be elsewhere. I think it's an LCD response issue that can be affected by slow systems, slow video cards and people going from fast panels to a slower one like the Sammy.
Click to expand...

Perhaps your thinking doesn't relate with real world? This is not about slow video cards and definately not fast->slow -panels.

LCD reponse time is _part_ of the lag, which is in every screen, but it definately ain't the only factor. When there's plenty of measured data pointing to A, and nothing better theory is around, it would be non-healthy scepticism to say that Samsung is not to blame.

Wikipedia: "Currently, the only TFT panels known to have this phenomenon are so-called overdrive panels. These include S-PVA, S-MVA, and Overdrive-TN panels. S-PVA have been observed to suffer from greater input lag than S-MVA panels, while IPS, S-IPS and AS-IPS panels are not or only minimally affected."

Overdrive uses a buffer of couple frames (=frames are shown with delay because overdrive, and here's the input lag), and that's about enough to cause the difference with measured clock-test.

Behardwares article - if you don't believe anything without outside authority, here's for you - http://www.behardware.com/articles/632-1/lcds-images-delayed-compared-to-crts-yes.html
 
I've speculated earlier in this thread that it is not just the Sammy in particular that shows lag but perhaps the technology of the panel. As I said earlier here, 'Is it the 215tw specifically that's the problem or S-PVA panels in general.' That's what people need to know. If it's an understood fact then people who value FPS gaming and are sensitive to input lag should stay away from these panels. I'm pretty competitive with SoF2 DM....I switched from CRT to LCD and didn't notice a whole lotta difference in my performance. There are pluses and minuses with every LCD. With the Sammy it's pretty clear it doesn't sacrifice image for speed.
 
its a pretty good argument right now that the low-milisecond TN panels are the best for gaming. that will surely change within the next couple years (monitor technology is about to explode) but for now you cant get any better then a good TN for games.
 
Greenwit said:
I've speculated earlier in this thread that it is not just the Sammy in particular that shows lag but perhaps the technology of the panel. As I said earlier here, 'Is it the 215tw specifically that's the problem or S-PVA panels in general.' That's what people need to know.
Click to expand...

Mmkay. I didn't intend to blame only Samsung, though Samsung does make those S-PVA-panels. I think there is widely noticed input lag only in 21" and bigger S-PVA displays.
 
Just noticed the thread had videos on the last page.

My 215TW looks nothing like that one. First, that one was silver? mine's black....different batch maybe?

Anyway, I've been playing tons of games on mine, and havent noticed any lag like what they showed in the video.

I guess you just have to get one for yourself and see if it gives you the problem...mine sure doesn't.
 
how can monitors have input lag? does it have to do with the actual monitors signal processing or something?
 
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