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My First VM box ? "Learning"

D

dashpuppy

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
6,163
I am under the assumption that i need a heavy skookum machine to run vm's? and TONS OF ram ?

I've never built a machine or actually set one up so i'm reading on the forums on what i need and how many millions it will cost me.


Id personally like to build a box that i can run a few 208 or 2003 win servers in and maybe a ubunto vm too.

It would be a box that i would learn on. Ie how to set it up, manage it back it up. Monitor it etc etc.

Correct me if i'm wrong, do i need to run windows 2008 server and all the vm's run inside that ? OR ?

NO clue, and couldn't find any website's to start with.
 
No you don't need a ton of resources, unless there are going to be multiple users/
You can build one.
You can go win2k8 r2 and install the hyper-v role, or use just hyper-v stand alone, or you VMware's exsi, and then you can also use xen. There are many variants. I use esxi and win2k8r2 with hyper v.

Find an old box that can support virtualization, and some intel nics, then DL esxi from vmware.
 
Make sure those cpus will work with whatever virtualization platform you choose. I had a rack mount server with some amd cpu's that did not like esxi, however win2k8 with hyper v worked.

Also thats going to be a loud system that is going to cost $$ to run in terms of power.
 
sc0tty8 said:
Make sure those cpus will work with whatever virtualization platform you choose. I had a rack mount server with some amd cpu's that did not like esxi, however win2k8 with hyper v worked.

Also thats going to be a loud system that is going to cost $$ to run in terms of power.
Click to expand...

I just emailed them asking about the noise from that machine to see first.
 
I think the machine that i posted a link to will be perfect for a learning machine. Nothing to to expensive and easy to use. I can buy a tecnet account after and use that software to learn with, then buy a 5 cal licence for more os's.
 
I have a Athlong X2 64, could i build a box to run server 2k8, and some vm's ? Im asking if this processor will be good to build a toy-box.
 
dashpuppy said:
I think the machine that i posted a link to will be perfect for a learning machine. Nothing to to expensive and easy to use. I can buy a tecnet account after and use that software to learn with, then buy a 5 cal licence for more os's.
Click to expand...

What do you need cals for? You don't get more os's because you have more cals.

dashpuppy said:
I have a Athlong X2 64, could i build a box to run server 2k8, and some vm's ? Im asking if this processor will be good to build a toy-box.
Click to expand...

Yes it should work. It can at least get you started.
 
dashpuppy said:
I have a Athlong X2 64, could i build a box to run server 2k8, and some vm's ? Im asking if this processor will be good to build a toy-box.
Click to expand...

Which Athlon X2 64? Also, do you already have a motherboard and RAM available for that CPU?
 
Danny Bui said:
Which Athlon X2 64? Also, do you already have a motherboard and RAM available for that CPU?
Click to expand...

Nope just the cpu, i was thinking about buying mobo ram case hard drives. but the link i posted is everything for 400$ 8gigs ram 2 dual core processors 2tb storage. Pretty much way cheaper than what i could build it for.

My goal is to build / buy a learning box so i can learn about virtual servers and stuff so i can actually work on them, and implement them.

The new company that just hired me wants me to take on his co-located server learn about exchange and other things :( so i thought ill buy a server, and learn all these things. Plus i can do things for my home network.

Id like to be able to run 3-4 virtual servers. possible ?
 
esxi is free as it has already been said.

I would personally find a nice little quad core with 8gigs of ram in the FS\FT thread.

I am not sure about tecnet, but I think a single license of MSDN will let you do everything you need in a non operation environment.

Good luck.

BTW I use my Q6600 with VM Workstation and sometimes esxi to do what you say. works really well, and it is just my gaming machine.
 
SpeedyVV said:
esxi is free as it has already been said.

I would personally find a nice little quad core with 8gigs of ram in the FS\FT thread.

I am not sure about tecnet, but I think a single license of MSDN will let you do everything you need in a non operation environment.

Good luck.

BTW I use my Q6600 with VM Workstation and sometimes esxi to do what you say. works really well, and it is just my gaming machine.
Click to expand...

the box i found, states this.

2U Server 2x AMD 2.0Ghz Dual Core VM Ware ESXi 4.0 2TB

I would assume it would be perfect for me :)

Is there a website i can read about esxi ? I get the impression esxi is software that runs with the bios of the computer on a usb or hard drive that boots so you can run more than one os.

Links ?
 
I dont know about those models, but I have 2 of those rackable systems servers and they are VERY loud. So loud I had to put them in my garage, they cant be in the same room you work on.
 
Biznatch said:
I dont know about those models, but I have 2 of those rackable systems servers and they are VERY loud. So loud I had to put them in my garage, they cant be in the same room you work on.
Click to expand...

I called the company and they said yes its a loud box LOL! so i guess ill have to research a motherboard and CPU now and build a 2u case with a few pull out drives.

I do have this athlon x2 64, i wonder if i could use that.. ?

Any help with motherboards / cpu's i should buy to build a box ?
 
dashpuppy said:
I do have this athlon x2 64, i wonder if i could use that.. ?

Any help with motherboards / cpu's i should buy to build a box ?
Click to expand...

Ok here's the deal: Since you only have the CPU, I would not reuse that Athlon X2 64 at all for a two reasons:
- You could have the socket 939 version which means that you're gonna be paying a relatively high price for an old S939 motherboard and 4GB DDR RAM
- You could have the socket AM2 version which means that you're gonna be paying a moderate price for a socket AM2+ motherboard and a high price for DDR2 RAM.
- This means that future RAM upgrades will be more and more costly for either setup now that production of DDR and DDR2 RAM have pretty much dried up.

I recommend this setup instead:
$180 - AMD Athlon II X4 630 CPU + Asus M4A785TD-M EVO AMD 785G mATX Motherboard
$85 - G.Skill F3-10600CL9D-4GBNT 2 x 2GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$55 - Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$55 - Antec NEO ECO 400C 400W PSU
-------------
$375 CAD plus tax and shipping.
 
SpeedyVV said:
esxi is free as it has already been said.

I would personally find a nice little quad core with 8gigs of ram in the FS\FT thread.

I am not sure about tecnet, but I think a single license of MSDN will let you do everything you need in a non operation environment.

Good luck.

BTW I use my Q6600 with VM Workstation and sometimes esxi to do what you say. works really well, and it is just my gaming machine.
Click to expand...


I do what he wants to do on a dell sc440 with an e6600 and 6gb ram. It works alright.

I tried telling him he should look into a tower server, these are tons quieter.
 
sc0tty8 said:
I do what he wants to do on a dell sc440 with an e6600 and 6gb ram. It works alright.

I tried telling him he should look into a tower server, these are tons quieter.
Click to expand...

i don't want a tower server, i want a small rack server :) i love the Norco cases or another style with pull out hard drives. I will look at what the guy suggested above with that equipment see if it will fit into a rack half depth server case.


j'
 
Racks generally mean loud. It's small inside so they need powerful small fans (powerful+small=loud).

With a tower system, 120mm fans make things cool and relatively quiet. Maybe look into matx or mitx?
 
450 said:
Racks generally mean loud. It's small inside so they need powerful small fans (powerful+small=loud).

With a tower system, 120mm fans make things cool and relatively quiet. Maybe look into matx or mitx?
Click to expand...

yes i know, i have built many computers towers desktops. However my needs are not a desktop / tower. My needs are a rack case, for a rack setup.
 
dashpuppy said:
My needs are a rack case, for a rack setup.
Click to expand...

Well the parts I recommended will fit inside a 2U Rack case. However as everyone else noted, for many 2U based setups and below, it's gonna be loudc (small fans that needs to spin at high speeds to get decent cooling) or not sufficient cooling. (small fans that needs to spin at low speeds to get low noise).
 
Im looking at this case,

11-165-181-S01


should be quiet & affordable.
 
Last edited:
I have the 3u case of the one you posted above (well the first one with the red). I though I got the 4u but whatever. I threw in a sick mobo and i5 and have my ESXi running on it. Dude, you and I keep trying out the same things from forum to forum lol but vm is awesome. I have three vms running on mine right now - my dc server, my exchange server and a win 7 for when I vpn into the network. I think I may add a forth and put my blackberry server on it instead of keeping it with my exchange server.

I am a little bit tipsy right now to read the first page, which I did yesterday but my boss took us out to the bar, lol - so send me a PM if you want to see the parts I used in the case man.

Btw, that second case looks sick. I like the hot swappable drive bay. This is what I did for my setup:

VmHost:
i5 quad core
8 gigs of ram
80 gig HD

Dataserv:
Win 2008 Storage Server
Raid 5 setup with 4 500 gig WD Blue drives

Used a good case with a 4 bay hot swappable enclosure.. took a little convincing to my Fiancee but I was able to get it lol.

Anyways, I know what you want and the setup I think compares close to it, right now I have three rack units (one for my regular computer and two units of what I just posted above).

Does anything I say make sense? I find myself typing more then reading what I am typing.. time for another beer.
 
CiscoInside said:
I have the 3u case of the one you posted above (well the first one with the red). I though I got the 4u but whatever. I threw in a sick mobo and i5 and have my ESXi running on it. Dude, you and I keep trying out the same things from forum to forum lol but vm is awesome. I have three vms running on mine right now - my dc server, my exchange server and a win 7 for when I vpn into the network. I think I may add a forth and put my blackberry server on it instead of keeping it with my exchange server.

I am a little bit tipsy right now to read the first page, which I did yesterday but my boss took us out to the bar, lol - so send me a PM if you want to see the parts I used in the case man.

Btw, that second case looks sick. I like the hot swappable drive bay. This is what I did for my setup:

VmHost:
i5 quad core
8 gigs of ram
80 gig HD

Dataserv:
Win 2008 Storage Server
Raid 5 setup with 4 500 gig WD Blue drives

Used a good case with a 4 bay hot swappable enclosure.. took a little convincing to my Fiancee but I was able to get it lol.

Anyways, I know what you want and the setup I think compares close to it, right now I have three rack units (one for my regular computer and two units of what I just posted above).

Does anything I say make sense? I find myself typing more then reading what I am typing.. time for another beer.
Click to expand...


In same postion, i have wife that doesn't want to hear the beast, howerver its in the same romo as the washing machine and dryer so meh plus its my lab room all crammed into a small little room. Anyways, i need to learn many things so i can do this at work.

Ie exchange,
blackberry server
file server
vpn i have covered with our cisco vpn routers.

Currently we haev our server co-located and pay 500$ month witch is EXPENCIVE, so he wants me to learn all this stuff then actually set it up :( so much stress. SO i thought ill build a server learn these things etc at my own house then i can learn at my own pace with out killing a box, plus learn things all at same time


Red box, is hot sexy i love it. Would be perfect :)

Any more advice please let me know.
 
dashpuppy said:
In same postion, i have wife that doesn't want to hear the beast, howerver its in the same romo as the washing machine and dryer so meh plus its my lab room all crammed into a small little room. Anyways, i need to learn many things so i can do this at work.

Ie exchange,
blackberry server
file server
vpn i have covered with our cisco vpn routers.

Currently we haev our server co-located and pay 500$ month witch is EXPENCIVE, so he wants me to learn all this stuff then actually set it up :( so much stress. SO i thought ill build a server learn these things etc at my own house then i can learn at my own pace with out killing a box, plus learn things all at same time


Red box, is hot sexy i love it. Would be perfect :)

Any more advice please let me know.
Click to expand...

I hear ya man, I have an asa 5505 that was brought home to learn on for work, so we are in the same boat!

Okay so lets start from the beginning here:

You have a CPU and mobo ready to go?

If so, does the CPU offer virtualization? Does not really matter for your home lab, but will deff matter for your office.

How many machines would you like to put on the box? Not only is this a learning experience, but once you get the hang of things likely you will keep using VM, so lets start from there.

Look at it this way the same way I looked at it - this is sorta of an investment. Yes, for learning which is always an awesome benefit, but also in the long run this saves you money. I have taken three machines, all with their own equipment, heat build up, power usage, etc. and combined them into one machine. Hell, depending on the resources I might add some more.

So with the small bench space you have, this might make a lot of sense to combined everything into one machine. Hell, most of the time we setup these machines to run headless, so what is the difference?

There is a lllllllllllllllllllllootttt to VMware.. I am just a newbie compared to the people I work with and what they play with. I mean blade servers, running multiple VMs, having redundancy, etc. etc. that I feel lucky to be in environment to learn the technology because it really is the future.

But with a basic setup, throwing your servers on it, managing it, really will get you going dude. I do suggest though keeping your data storage on a stand alone unit. I don't trust the datastores all that much to keep my stuff on it - I know I know, but I just dont.
 
CiscoInside said:
I hear ya man, I have an asa 5505 that was brought home to learn on for work, so we are in the same boat!

Okay so lets start from the beginning here:

You have a CPU and mobo ready to go?

If so, does the CPU offer virtualization? Does not really matter for your home lab, but will deff matter for your office.

How many machines would you like to put on the box? Not only is this a learning experience, but once you get the hang of things likely you will keep using VM, so lets start from there.

Look at it this way the same way I looked at it - this is sorta of an investment. Yes, for learning which is always an awesome benefit, but also in the long run this saves you money. I have taken three machines, all with their own equipment, heat build up, power usage, etc. and combined them into one machine. Hell, depending on the resources I might add some more.

So with the small bench space you have, this might make a lot of sense to combined everything into one machine. Hell, most of the time we setup these machines to run headless, so what is the difference?

There is a lllllllllllllllllllllootttt to VMware.. I am just a newbie compared to the people I work with and what they play with. I mean blade servers, running multiple VMs, having redundancy, etc. etc. that I feel lucky to be in environment to learn the technology because it really is the future.

But with a basic setup, throwing your servers on it, managing it, really will get you going dude. I do suggest though keeping your data storage on a stand alone unit. I don't trust the datastores all that much to keep my stuff on it - I know I know, but I just dont.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the more help :) apreciated.

Currently i don't have a mobo or cpu or ram or the hard drives OR the case, thats my dal right now, reasearching the stuff i need.

I do have my 2u Norco case for my untangle box and my cisco 24port switch i bought for cheap.

I plan on running vm's on my built server, and my data on another machine something like a 1u atom with some sort of storage server, ( the name of the software slipped my mind ).

I hope to build the machine fairly cheap, but im not buying crap either.

Right now my 2008 server is running on a 2.6gig p4 with 2 gigs ram AND man it heats up, i can feel the heat from under the desk from this beast. I know the p4 lga775's heat up ALOT! so going to a i5 or i7 would be much better.

I run untangle right now for my av / firewall. Works good, i'm addicted to rack equipment.

Plus if i build this server now, i can use it for ever by just upgrading hardware, and using it in my house when i buy one.

J'
 
Just bid on this board, for 99$ on ebay.

image.aspx


After i win ( if i do ) ill buy a quad core xeon, then buy ram & a case.
 
dashpuppy said:
Just bid on this board, for 99$ on ebay.

image.aspx


After i win ( if i do ) ill buy a quad core xeon, then buy ram & a case.
Click to expand...

Well, i won y board.

Intel S3420GPLX LGA 1156 Server Motherboard

Now t purchase my Quad core 2.4 xeon with 8mb cache.
 
Looking at this makes me wonder whether I should bundle one of the motherboards, a Q6600, and some 8GB of RAM I have and sell the combo as "ESXi in a box"-capable.
 
Thuleman said:
Looking at this makes me wonder whether I should bundle one of the motherboards, a Q6600, and some 8GB of RAM I have and sell the combo as "ESXi in a box"-capable.
Click to expand...

I'm not to sure what you are saying LOL!
 
OMG it sucks!


Thuleman said:
Looking at this makes me wonder whether I should bundle one of the motherboards, a Q6600, and some 8GB of RAM I have and sell the combo as "ESXi in a box"-capable.
Click to expand...

How much for the q6600? My server can't take anything newer than that.
 
dashpuppy said:
I'm not to sure what you are saying LOL!
Click to expand...
Just that there may be a demand for mobo+cpu+ram combo of decently priced used parts if they are guaranteed to work with ESXi. My wife is giving me grief over all the stuff I have piling up at home because I "may need it some day". I should just deal with my separation anxiety and sell some of that stuff off.

Didn't mean to diss your board. ;)
Was really just an observation that some stable workhorse boards can be good for something even if they are older since test servers or ESXi-in-a-box setups don't require DDR3 RAM and whatever the latest chipset is.

sc0tty8 said:
How much for the q6600? My server can't take anything newer than that.
Click to expand...
Well, I just came up with my "ESXi ready"-bundle idea and you are asking me to part it out. :(
Not sure, I'll test ESXi on that board in the next day or so and put it up as a bundle if I can help it, otherwise the odds of selling an 975X chipset board are probably rather slim.
 
rpc-2008ff.jpg


Norco RPC-2008 8 Bay Hot Swap SATA/SAS 2U Rackmount Server Case
think this will be my new server case!
 
Thuleman said:
Just that there may be a demand for mobo+cpu+ram combo of decently priced used parts if they are guaranteed to work with ESXi. My wife is giving me grief over all the stuff I have piling up at home because I "may need it some day". I should just deal with my separation anxiety and sell some of that stuff off.

Didn't mean to diss your board. ;)
Was really just an observation that some stable workhorse boards can be good for something even if they are older since test servers or ESXi-in-a-box setups don't require DDR3 RAM and whatever the latest chipset is.


Well, I just came up with my "ESXi ready"-bundle idea and you are asking me to part it out. :(
Not sure, I'll test ESXi on that board in the next day or so and put it up as a bundle if I can help it, otherwise the odds of selling an 975X chipset board are probably rather slim.
Click to expand...


I think i researched it properly, with the board i it has a internal usb port right on the board, designed for floppy or a thumb drive with esxi on it ? I hope to start buying parts to build a server now. Just deciding on parts and case now, need a server that will last me a few years plus allow me to learn and experiment with.
 
For learning purposes, I simply had a custom white box machine with an Athlon x64 4800 on a ASUS M2N4-SLI Board, 4GB RAM, Fanless Graphics Card, Silent CPU Fan and installed ESXi on this. The components were energy saving and the noise was 'virtually' none existant (no pun intended). This was great for playing around with especially with a Technet subscription. I have a seperate server at home that I also use for experimenting (HP ML370 G4) and that creates a lot of noise. This thing stays off unless I'm using it!
 
karloz said:
For learning purposes, I simply had a custom white box machine with an Athlon x64 4800 on a ASUS M2N4-SLI Board, 4GB RAM, Fanless Graphics Card, Silent CPU Fan and installed ESXi on this. The components were energy saving and the noise was 'virtually' none existant (no pun intended). This was great for playing around with especially with a Technet subscription. I have a seperate server at home that I also use for experimenting (HP ML370 G4) and that creates a lot of noise. This thing stays off unless I'm using it!
Click to expand...



Id ditch the noisy machine LOL! I run vm on my laptop and its decent.
 
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