My college says no Athlons....

Or why you need 128 MB RAM to do anything in our majors, or 64.

My school's recommendations are not just for CS students, it's for ALL incoming students. Like I said, the recommendation is from our IT/tech department, it's not CS specific.
 
klharmon said:
I run Solid Works 2004 , AutoCAD 2000i, and Pro Engineer 2001 at home on an Athlon XP 2400.
Click to expand...

Try running an unpatched SolidWorks 2000 on your box. It (or 98, I forget) would not run on my 1GHz thunderbird back when and would specifically state after install that you needed an Intel chip to run it. Apparently I was not the only person in the universe with an athlon and SW2k (or 98), since I didn't bring it up.

This is no longer a problem and has not been a problem for quite some time

We don't need to talk about which current CAD/CAM programs we have which run flawlessly on the athlon because all the ones I use (including SWOffice2k4) all do.

Clear? Everybody?
Good!
 
The only way that they can say that Intel is better is that most Pentium processors perform better at Engineering and CS apps than some AMD procs. I would assume that the gap is closing with the new Athlon 64 procs.
To say that you can't have one is BS though...although Celerons do suck monkey balls ;)
 
Nasty_Savage said:
Generically, I'm sure these 'requirements' are dumbed down for non-tech related students. You also have to think of the under paid IT staff. How would you like to field dumb questions from students who can barely turn a computer on all day? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...



Nasty : I know quite well how that feels... I currently work High Speed Internet tech support for Cox Communications to pay my bills...

we constantly get calls from people who can't turn their computers on, get non-system disc errors, IE won't load, OE won't load, pop-ups, and tons of other issues that have little to no relation to accessing the internet.... A lot of the callers we get say they aren't the computer person... they are just calling because they don't won't to bug their computer person...

I have a good idea about how that Tech Staff would feel...

but it's no excuse for the Tech Staff being incompetant and out of date... althought that happens.
 
true nuff, but I think the recommendations are probably designed to give the path of least resistance to students getting computers for the first time or at least new computers specifically for college. The more head room, the less calls so to speak. Of course, they may very well just be t00ls. I work for k-12 schools and their on site staff wouldn't even know what v-ram or a front side bus is. In fact, its a wonder any of them have jobs at all! :eek: That's where my organization comes in to try and offset their lack of ability/knowledge so they stop making hodgepodge networks and get something more in professional terms. Of course, some of our emplyees are t00ls too! :rolleyes:
 
Thats suck crap....

NJIT offers Computer Aided Design & other related engineering courses.... The industry standard for CAD design right now is Autocad 2004, soon to be 2005... and I run 2004 on a 533mhz Celeron with 128mb of ran and it WORKS FINE... I also run Photoshop 7 and 3d Studio Max 3.1 on the same machine... and I have never had problems. I don't know what kind of engineering programs they will have you run but it can't be anything more demanding than that. If a 533 Celeron can do all of that, there is no reason a 2.7 ghz Celeron can't.

And for not reccomending athlons they are just being retarded. Plain and simple.
 
This is the extent of the software that most majors in my school have to use...as you can see, they can all run perfectly fine on older systems rather than having students spend a lot more money for something the school feels is more modern. I should really have a talk with our tech staff about their outrageous requirements.

http://www.wpi.edu/Academics/CCC/Software/network.html

I love how my school generates a lot of flak for their extravagant computer recommendations. :D

Send all flames to [email protected]
 
i didnt read all 9 pagesof posts, but im assuming its possible they are just talking about celorons and regular athlons. they never mentioned amd in general. Theres also an Athlon xp, athlon 64, and the operion. maybe they where just talking about an Athlon processor or what ever, i would definately give them a call and get some clearification on that.
 
I would apply to a different college. I know its really a small, simple issue. However, this could be just the tip of iceberg. If you know what I mean.
 
douglas25 said:
I would apply to a different college. I know its really a small, simple issue. However, this could be just the tip of iceberg. If you know what I mean.
Click to expand...
That's absurd and really bad advice.

NJIT is actually a very good school, so what if the guy writing the comp specs was an idiot. Things like this are common and can be found at just about any college or university. It's a commonplace thing where the deparments and those telling new students what to do don't communicate well.
 
douglas25 said:
I would apply to a different college. I know its really a small, simple issue. However, this could be just the tip of iceberg. If you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

Its been said at least once - but obviously it needs to be repeated.

The tech support department (at any school) making incoming student computer recommendations DOES NOT DO THE TEACHING.
 
I just thought of something, what if they're asking for SSE/SSE2 instructions? I'm not as familiar with early athlons (I've got a t-bird in my closet somewhere...) but I know AMD just implemented SSE2 in the Hammer cores. And i just looked, and the Athlon XPs implemented SSE (they called it 3DNow! Professional so it seems). All P3s have SSE, and even though the celerons (celerys...) have SSE, the performance still wouldn't be the most enjoyable... (I'm speaking of early celerons).

Also, go to NJIT despite what some people are saying. There are so many people who don't know what in the hell they're talking about working in EVERY university's IT department. There are some very intelligent people working there though. So, I was in your shoes, I'd take my Athlon 64, with SSE2, and soon Windows 64-bit support, and ask them to find a program, esp a CS program, that won't run on an athlon 64. But it might also be a good idea to lay low and just ignore the IT department. :)
 
I will also be attending NJIT in the fall. I agree that their "requirement" is probably just to stem the flow of bullshit coming from computer illiterate backgrounds and taking classes that are not comptuer-related (they do exist). I personally am going for Computer Engineering and i already have a fairly good understanding of how computers work, probalby at a much lower/more fundamental level than even most people on [H]ard|Forum. The only reason why a program would not work on an Athlon XP processor is that the program might require the SSE2 code path. I doubt it though, as i'm sure there are still plenty of professional engineers running multi-chip P3's, and that would make their hardware obsolte and possibly lose business due to said engineers purchasing other software.

Someone at their IT department probably does not have their head on straight to require a minimum 128MB video card. As we all know the main thing large capacity video RAM is used for is gaming where games are texture intensive. I'd like to see Auto CAD performing real-time multi-textured surfaces with shaders, etc. What next, require a 5.1 system? Anyway if they don't have a requirement for SSE2 i'd say stick with what you've got. If you're on [H] then you won't be going to bug them that your program runs too slow. If it does require SSE2, go ahead and get a bleeding-edge Opteron machine. A server/workstation grade board can be had for $200-450, and an Opteron 144 or 244 can both be purchased for approx. $230 (depends on if you want faster speed up-front or the addition of a second CPU later on).
 
all athlon 64's have sse2

But I think they mean vanilla athlons (no xp's) I do agree though that it is BS and you can run almost anything on an AMD that you can on an intel.
 
ra-odin said:
Its been said at least once - but obviously it needs to be repeated.

The tech support department (at any school) making incoming student computer recommendations DOES NOT DO THE TEACHING.
Click to expand...

take it from a recent grad, this isn't a good sign of things to come. Sure, they don't do the teaching, but this proves that they either hire morons to create these specs, they're understaffed and had someone from a different area make it, or they're in Intel's pockets. Any of these are bad signs.

As for CS professors, I doubt many of them could tell you much about an Athlon. I only met 2 professors that built their own boxes, in all my years in college. I also saw my fair share of ones that couldn't use a notebook, infected all the students with a Word virus, and one that admitted that he took 4 hours to "learn how to use Windows XP", because it was so different. These professors know their subjects, but that doesn't mean they know PC's.
 
It could just be that their programs require SSE, something pre-Palamino Athlons lacked. So they might just be covering their asses from a deluge of older Athlon users.
 
AMD 64 Processors have the old P3 and P4 instruction sets (SSE SSE2) there probably thinking the software is needing.

Somone who was dumb and anti lowend/budget box minded made that FAQ

I just love how the cheapest Socket 939 setup can make intel cry for mommy!


PS, If i told somone that I needed a new P4 box to go to class, they would laugh, b/c they know the p4 would lagg behind the lower cost AMD machine I allready own!
 
i hate to say it, but the school i go to is way worse for this kind of thing. sort of...let me explain first:

this is a canadian school. as you probably know college and university are two different things here. college has become quite complex depending on what you take these days. many people are doing both college diploma and university degree....

anyway, my school has just opened the newest university last year. It was a college to begin with and now we're both. thank god i'm part of the college.

would you believe that my school actually forces all university students to RENT dell laptops? you have no say in this. if you do not rent one from the school you do not get to go. and the best part is that you pay about the same as a mid range new laptop and you give it back after you're done!

you might ask how they can do this (i do too). they write it off by giving us 'useful' software geared towards our couse (solidworks for engineers for example.) so therefore they need it.

i'm just glad i'm part of the college and not the university (yet anyways). the funny thing is i'm in a mechanical engineering program and we use Unigraphics NX on a solaris 9 UNIX system. all sun microsystems computers. try getting a laptop for that hahaha

and i must say that after using UG, solidworks is ghetto trash.
 
I don't think there's any reason to justify me NOT going to NJIT just because of a silly error such as this. Besides that, I really didn't get into any better school that I would rather go to. Even if I did, it's a little late in the game to switch schools. I have no intention on going somewhere else at the momment, although I appreciate your concerns. Another thing that helps is feedback I'm getting from current students. The 2 people I've talked to are both running Athlon systems and have never heard tell of these guidelines.

-Matt
 
That is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. But as everyone has said, just don't mention it and it'll be fine seeing as there is nothing you can do with a P4 that you can't do with an athlon of equivalent power.

Of course if it was me, I'd march into the office responsible for this crap and demand to know what the hell they are talking about. But that's just me :D
 
I was gonna post that same link!!

Anyway, Sandman is right. I had one professor that knew the ins and outs of C better than anyone I've ever known. Sadly simple things like Excel eluded him. :rolleyes:
 
THRESHIN said:
i'm just glad i'm part of the college and not the university (yet anyways). the funny thing is i'm in a mechanical engineering program and we use Unigraphics NX on a solaris 9 UNIX system. all sun microsystems computers. try getting a laptop for that hahaha
Click to expand...

As a design/engineering student at loughborough uni in the UK, i run proEngineer and Unigraphics NX on the first rig in my sig with no problems. The literature i was sent before starting uni again heavily recomended getting a p4 with a 64 mb NVIDIA video card. I have had no problems whatsoever running on a athlon xp and an ati 9600pro . . . certainly runs much better than one of my friends that runs a 3.0 p4 with a fx5200 that she bought specially at much greater cost than i spent on mine hehe. But then agian another guy on my course runs a 9800pro and ProE wont run at all- i think most of it comes down to installing things properly, always updating drivers properly and maintaining your comp regularly.
They also said a big NO to windows xp and said you HAD to get win2000 or nothing would work right, and were selling knoppix cheap to run Unigraphics NX with . . . again no probs here with win xp ;)
Im sure you'll be fine with an AMD system, just do what the other guys said and dont tell anyone whats in your comp :D
 
I would just get one of those "Intel Inside" stickers, and make sure and put it somewhere that it would be seen.
 
I'm amazed by the bad advice being given by some people here. If you think things like this are reason enough to go to a different school, I challenge you to find a single school that doesn't do stupid shit like this. Even the Ivy league aren't immune. It's a simple fact of many educational institutions that interdepartmental communication often is poor and bungled.
 
Hmm, anyone else notice the big "AMD Folding Issues Revisited" article posted on the front page today?

Yeah, so there's nothing an Intel can run that an Athlon can't... Granted, it's an Athlon 64 specific issue, but from a managerial standpoint they'd rather just say no Athlons than Athlons are ok except for Athlon64's. I've read a few issues through here about certain software packages that either throw up warnings or need patches for Athlons, enough that in an educational environment with thousands of students I wouldn't want to deal with the odd errors like this (and I am doing desktop support for a decently large University right now.)

Anything that get's in the way of the learning process should be reduced when possible. There's nothing worse than trying to do a project and your computer won't work for some reason only to find it's because you chose to ignore a reccomendation, and don't say it doesn't happen because I've seen it plenty of times here.
 
I know a lot of raging fanboys will flame the heck out of me for this, but here goes my story.

I am the Technology Coordinator for a school district in North Central Kansas. I am the only IT staff for the district, and as such am responsible for everything from recommending purchases to all maintenance on the computers. In June 2003 our school board accepted my recommendation to purchase (100) Compaq D315 computers based on the nForce chipset and XP 2200+ chips (Before this turns into another discussion let it be known that I had reservations about buying Compaq at the time, but since I have been amazed by their business support. It really has been good). The machines arrived, were distributed, and so far have been excellent. Given 100 machines with slightly over a year on them I have had to call support maybe a dozen times. A couple bad hard drives, a couple bad floppys, a bad monitor, and a half a dozen or so CPU's.

That is correct, the XP 2200+ CPU's are failing. At first it blew me away, because I had never before seen a CPU that would work fine one day and then fail, unless there were other circumstances like a HSF breaking off. On these machines the screen blanks after POST, and then the Windows XP boot screen fades in from black. On 5 of the 6 the machine would simply hard lock halfway through the fade in. On the 6th it would get to the exact same spot and then reboot over and over again. Swap the CPU and the machine would run perfectly normally again.

Now, 1 year on 100 machines is 100 machine years, and 6 failures calculates out to be an average of one failure approximately every 12 years. But, in my opinion, this is still too much. Now, before everyone labels me an Intel fanboy and goes crazy, I would like to state that I have used just as many AMD chips as Intel. In the days of $47 Thoroughbred B core 1700+'s I used to build machines for employees of the school district. I still have about 20 of those around that I support (never had a problem with any of those). Not to mention the problem that was just revisited on the front page with AMD Thoroughbred B chips and Folding@Home. The locking up drove me crazy for quite some time, and it has just been confirmed to be an AMD problem.

All that said, I wouldn't blame any school for recommending an Intel and can say that for the forseeable future my district will be purchasing Intel hardware (a shame too because I really preferred the nVidia IGP to Intels integrated). Not just because of the problems above, but also because of price. I was more than happy to buy AMD's when a $90 chip could perform as well as a $170 Intel. But the same price/performance ratio, I am going to have to go back to Intel.

Brian Taylor
Technology Coordinator
Waconda USD #272

P.S. On the Folding issue a workaround was put into the Folding program, and it has been working fine for a couple months. And the problem was not limited to A64's, it was also present on Thoroughbred B cores.
 
Go in, let them know you have an AMD.... when they bitch and try to toss it, SUE for full tuition costs.

And definitely get a small HDisk, install Win98 on it, and take thier free WinXPpro update deal while your at it ;-)

Seriously, why would anyone want to waste $ with these idiots, they obviously dont know sheeeeee-it about computers or science, my advice, find a nice cheap state school.

Spending megabucks on undergrad is a sign of person in real NEED of an education.

It's tje masters degree thats worth the real cake.
 
1) Not everyone can afford Athlon 64 chips.
2) Not everyone can afford Athlon XP chips.
3) There are still people who use Athlons. no XP.
4) Athlon had issues with certain types of instructions sets.
5) Not all colleges are willing to pay for the most recent version of software when its only an intro level class and there's no benefit to supporting anything newer. I didn't say using. I said supporting.

Until you work in a University's IT/HelpDesk department, you can't complain about troubleshooting software/hardware problems. I see laptops that somehow have melted screens & bodies at least once a week, and I can't ever figure out how it happened.

If you look at it from an IT/standards perspective, P4 was out before AthlonXP, and even if these manuals are reprinted every year, Athlon64 is still relatively new. It's basically untested and has no long-term usability/longevity testing. To say that you've had no problems using Athlons just means that in your limited experience, you have never had a game or OS that had processor-specific programs. P4 has been around a bit longer, and intel has proven that they understand and fully integrated the SSE, SSE2, SSE3 instructions, whereas AMD is just incorporating them. Recent = potentially unreliable/unstable/buggy. Until you use statistics, cad, modeling, or sim software, and several different versions and revisions and several different brands of them, you AMD fanboys need to chill out and do some research.

Note: I say fanboys because you overreact without knowing the issues. I build AMD systems too, but I never have those problems at home, only when I go into work and try to figure out why the engineers can't do assignments on their personal computers, but the lab computers are running fine.

To the person who said to sue, if they gave you documentation that said to use a specific piece of equipment and you don't, they have absolute zero liability because you did not follow instructions. Further, should you choose to use an AMD system at NJIT, they might need to support your computer if you have problems.


As a side note, I've only had failed processors on AMD systems. Intel systems, the hard drive always blows out first. I have a dead 1 GHz thunderbird, and a very much live PII 300 MHz that's chugging along fine...
 
Woofer00 said:
1) Not everyone can afford Athlon 64 chips.
2) Not everyone can afford Athlon XP chips.
Click to expand...
if you cant afford AMD chips, then you pretty much cant afford Intel chips either that are at the same quality levels as in speed, cache, etc
 
I love AMD chips, but a couple of these posts have made me think about my own personal experiences with the falures of AMD chips. I have had a ton of systems. Some AMD, and some intel. The only chips that have acutally failed me were AMD chips :( I have had a slot a 700, and 800 both fail on me. Along with a 1900+ also fail on me. However my old p2 400, p3 600, p3 700 (OC to 933) are still all running. I do still have a old Thunderbird 1.33 and a 2100+ both still running. Along with my current system which is my 2400+ is currently nice and healthy. I have built a lot of systems for friends and clients, they have been a mix of intel and AMD systems. And have had my fair share of problems with all of them.. Thats jsut my experience with AMD chips

Long live AMD
 
kenpomasta said:
I love AMD chips, but a couple of these posts have made me think about my own personal experiences with the falures of AMD chips. I have had a ton of systems. Some AMD, and some intel. The only chips that have acutally failed me were AMD chips :( I have had a slot a 700, and 800 both fail on me. Along with a 1900+ also fail on me. However my old p2 400, p3 600, p3 700 (OC to 933) are still all running. I do still have a old Thunderbird 1.33 and a 2100+ both still running. Along with my current system which is my 2400+ is currently nice and healthy. I have built a lot of systems for friends and clients, they have been a mix of intel and AMD systems. And have had my fair share of problems with all of them.. Thats jsut my experience with AMD chips

Long live AMD
Click to expand...
wow, how many computers do you own?
 
uwackme said:
Go in, let them know you have an AMD.... when they bitch and try to toss it, SUE for full tuition costs.

And definitely get a small HDisk, install Win98 on it, and take thier free WinXPpro update deal while your at it ;-)

Seriously, why would anyone want to waste $ with these idiots, they obviously dont know sheeeeee-it about computers or science, my advice, find a nice cheap state school.

Spending megabucks on undergrad is a sign of person in real NEED of an education.

It's tje masters degree thats worth the real cake.
Click to expand...

First off, NJIT is a state school. That's why it's called the NEW JERSEY Institute of Technology. NJIT is actually a good school with a pretty good reputation. Get the facts straight.
 
BrianTaylor said:
I know a lot of raging fanboys will flame the heck out of me for this, but here goes my story.

I am the Technology Coordinator for a school district in North Central Kansas. I am the only IT staff for the district, and as such am responsible for everything from recommending purchases to all maintenance on the computers. In June 2003 our school board accepted my recommendation to purchase (100) Compaq D315 computers based on the nForce chipset and XP 2200+ chips (Before this turns into another discussion let it be known that I had reservations about buying Compaq at the time, but since I have been amazed by their business support. It really has been good). The machines arrived, were distributed, and so far have been excellent. Given 100 machines with slightly over a year on them I have had to call support maybe a dozen times. A couple bad hard drives, a couple bad floppys, a bad monitor, and a half a dozen or so CPU's.

That is correct, the XP 2200+ CPU's are failing. At first it blew me away, because I had never before seen a CPU that would work fine one day and then fail, unless there were other circumstances like a HSF breaking off. On these machines the screen blanks after POST, and then the Windows XP boot screen fades in from black. On 5 of the 6 the machine would simply hard lock halfway through the fade in. On the 6th it would get to the exact same spot and then reboot over and over again. Swap the CPU and the machine would run perfectly normally again.

Now, 1 year on 100 machines is 100 machine years, and 6 failures calculates out to be an average of one failure approximately every 12 years. But, in my opinion, this is still too much. Now, before everyone labels me an Intel fanboy and goes crazy, I would like to state that I have used just as many AMD chips as Intel. In the days of $47 Thoroughbred B core 1700+'s I used to build machines for employees of the school district. I still have about 20 of those around that I support (never had a problem with any of those). Not to mention the problem that was just revisited on the front page with AMD Thoroughbred B chips and Folding@Home. The locking up drove me crazy for quite some time, and it has just been confirmed to be an AMD problem.

All that said, I wouldn't blame any school for recommending an Intel and can say that for the forseeable future my district will be purchasing Intel hardware (a shame too because I really preferred the nVidia IGP to Intels integrated). Not just because of the problems above, but also because of price. I was more than happy to buy AMD's when a $90 chip could perform as well as a $170 Intel. But the same price/performance ratio, I am going to have to go back to Intel.

Brian Taylor
Technology Coordinator
Waconda USD #272

P.S. On the Folding issue a workaround was put into the Folding program, and it has been working fine for a couple months. And the problem was not limited to A64's, it was also present on Thoroughbred B cores.
Click to expand...

The XP 2200+ was the FIRST chip based on the thoroughbred core. It was the A revision which was swiftly followed up by a B revision because of obvious flaws in this chip. This was probably the hottest chip AMD has ever produced, some comparing it to the 1.4ghz Thunderbird which was a very hot chip as well. When you put that massive amount of heat along with the poor cooling solutions retail manufacturers use, it's no surprise to me that these chips have failed. That's my 2 cents anyway.

-Matt
 
Hmm, it seems a lot of you guys still think computer science goes hand in hand with general computer knowledge and stuff like hardware and how to build one and use every application under the sun.

Computer science is studying computation and computational theory, information processing, and can range from low level hardware and device drivers and operating systems, up to algorithms, math, usage of computer languages, compiler theory, software engineering, et al.

The Computer Science department in most schools probably have NOTHING to do with the IT/Tech department; that makes all the decisions regarding technologies, computer acquisitions, troubleshooting, and the like.

I have professors who couldn't get a DOS prompt to save their lives, but they can still do some amazing research in operating systems.

Also, judging a school solely based on their helpdesk's/IT's/tech dept.'s recommendations and seemingly outrageous specifications for a computer that a student should bring is ludicrous.

Here's MIT's recommendations for computers.
http://web.mit.edu/ist/topics/hardware/desktops.html

If you were accepted to MIT and saw this recommendation and thought it was outrageous, would you still go? Chances are, you still would.

Like others said, don't judge a school based on the recommendations by their IT dept. It's like saying a college's website sucks, so the school must suck too.

NJIT is a good tech school. WPI, the school I go to, is a great school as well. We have a pretty good CS department, and I feel that WPI is better for undergrad than MIT, though I'd go to MIT for a master's degree.
 
NJIT has now edited their FAQ to something SLIGHTLY better. I still do not agree with this, but it's a step in the right direction.

"Q3: My existing machine is a Celeron or Athlon processor. Is this acceptable?

Celeron and Duron: Unfortunately, NO. The Celeron and Duron processors are designed for the home market place and are not supported by the some of the scientific, engineering, or programming software, such as MATLAB, based on the hardware requirements for software packages used at NJIT.

Athlon: While the Athlon processor may work in most cases, there are subtle differences which may cause compatibility and/or performance problems with some of the technical software over time. While we do not prohibit the use of Athlon processors, we strongly suggest that a true Pentium 4 2.0GHz processor or higher is best for full compatibility and longterm stablilty, based on years of testing in our academic environment. Use of any other processors are "at your own risk" and can not be supported by NJIT staff if a problem arises. (top)"

http://csd.njit.edu/compreq/spec.php#3

Man they really must like intel.

-Matt
 
Matt126 said:
Man they really must like intel.

-Matt
Click to expand...

Still not getting the point...it has nothing to do with liking Intel. Its a reccomendation based on their experiences. They all but say do it at your own risk, so why all the negativity about it? Its what works best for them. :rolleyes:
 
woofer00 said:
4) Athlon had issues with certain types of instructions sets.
Click to expand...

Uh. What? Which ones?
Care to elaborate or are you just repeating "something you heard", because that's precisely what it sounds like.

Perhaps if you mean "the classic athlon had issues with programs that could only run on SSE-enabled chips" then you might have something.

But you didn't. You also seem to be blissfully unaware that a Classic athlon will run anything a PII or classic Celeron will, only faster. The only exceptions are programs which autodetect the CPU and refuse to run on unrecognized chips (and don't recognize K7 variants). This does not mean the athlon cannot physically run these programs because it can, it means the athlons are prevented from running them for one reason or another.

To say that you've had no problems using Athlons just means that in your limited experience, you have never had a game or OS that had processor-specific programs. P4 has been around a bit longer, and intel has proven that they understand and fully integrated the SSE, SSE2, SSE3 instructions, whereas AMD is just incorporating them. Recent = potentially unreliable/unstable/buggy
Click to expand...

This is funny. You chide others for their experience and yet you refuse to provide a single example of a program that will run on a PIV and not an athlon.

Also, you say "P4 has been around a bit longer". It hasn't.
You're just wrong, the athlon classic was introduced long before the first Pentium IV was .
Look it up.
Christ, do some freaking research :rolleyes:

The AthlonXP uses SSE and the Athlon64 uses SSE2. SSE3 is simply unused at this point in time and is only availible on the toasty Prescott core PIV which was very recently introduced (which explains the near-total lack of software support for SSE3).

The vast majority of PIV's in the world do not support SSE3 in any way, shape or form.

You have not documented a single errata or problem with the athlon's implementations of SSE, which makes some sense. Anyone who actually knows what they're talking about would already know that AMD was the first company to introduce really performance-enhancing floating point SIMD extensions in the form of 3D-Now! on the K6, before the PIII was introduced.

You also said this:

2) Not everyone can afford Athlon XP chips.
Click to expand...
Which is possibly the most amusing statement I've read in years.

In part because again, it's just completely wrong.

If you cannot afford an Athlon XP you cannot afford a modern computer, and you sure as hell cannot afford a lousy POS Celeron, let alone a PIV.
Christ almighty man, look it up before you blurt out this stuff!

5) Not all colleges are willing to pay for the most recent version of software when its only an intro level class and there's no benefit to supporting anything newer. I didn't say using. I said supporting.
Click to expand...

You are creating a false dichotomy based on essentially nothing but your own imagination. This makes sense given your previous incorrect statements.

There are very few programs, new or old that will just not run on an athlon but which will run on a PII or PIII. There are No programs that I am aware of which will run on a PIV but not an athlon.
And you certainly have not provided any examples.

Solidworks 2000 (or 98) was the only program I encountered which would not run on an athlon.
The reason it would not run was not because the athlon couldnt run it, but because of Dessault's inability to comprehend that all they had to do to make it run on the athlon classic was to force the PII codepath. Hence, I believe the issue was fixed by a patch or "plus" version from Dessault.

Certainly something was done:
http://www.xicomputer.com/reviews/2000/cadence_january.html
"On the 2D AutoCAD test and the SolidWorks benchmark the system (athlon 700) performed significantly better than most of the dual Pentium III 600MHz workstations we tested in the December 1999 issue and did so for a very good price ... In the rest of the 3D tests the results were close to those systems, but sometimes higher and sometimes lower. Since the configurations were different (only one processor instead of two, and 256MB of RAM instead of 384MB), a direct comparison of price vs. performance could not be made. (In particular, the 700MHz Xi workstation performed significantly better than any of those systems on the SolidWorks 98Plus test.
The 700MHz Xi workstation offers good expandability in terms of memory, add-in cards and drives; very good OpenGL graphics cards and well-designed cases. The showing this AMD-based workstation makes in the performance department is a great thing for the workstation market... it means that Intel is now facing enough competition that end-users stand to benefit from greater performance and lower prices when buying workstations in the future.) "

Recent = potentially unreliable/unstable/buggy. Until you use statistics, cad, modeling, or sim software, and several different versions and revisions and several different brands of them, you AMD fanboys need to chill out and do some research.
Click to expand...

You have made a large number of totally unsupported statements, a number of which are blatantly false. It is clear from your post that you have not done any research whatsoever. I suggest you either support your statements or stop talking, because you've made a number of critical and blatant errors already.
 
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