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Multifamily Housing Networking

C

craigmp

n00b
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
45
I do part time IT consulting on the side for a local architectural firm. One of the engineers asked me to help him layout the data network for a multifamily development like an apartment complex. The phone, data and cable tv networks must all be seperate according to PHFA. He asked me to focus on the data network because they have done the phone and cable before. It says that internet access (cable, dsl, etc...) will be provided to each unit from a central location.

My idea was to get some type of business class high speed connection and have it come into a central location through a router, firewall then a switch. All the buildings would tie into the main switch using a fiber connection back to the central location. At the other buildings the fiber would come into a switch and then be run to each of the living units using cat 5 or cat 6.

First off would you think just getting a business class dsl or cable connection and dividing it up would be sufficient?

There will be multiple buildings that will need to have access to the internet. Would linking all the buildings back to the central location with fiber be a good idea? I have an understanding of networking but getting the equipment for this I'm a little unsure. Like what type of swich and what type of fiber?
 
Fiber backing in between buildings is the most efficent, and most reliable when it comes to distances. Copper cabling can only go so far.

I'd say something cisco for the core, and you dont "have" to use cisco all around, but it would be very reliable. I know cisco makes switching gear that is all fiber/ has fiber modules. Running lines to each unit would be pretty easy, just run a central patch panel in each building., and have runs going to each room/unit to a keystone jack in the wall.

Now for the internet line in, your looking towards multiple cable/dsl lines on a load balancing setup for cheaper route. A ds3 could provide it, but darn expensive. A single cable/dsl line would probably get boggled down in peak times.
 
I am not a network guy, but wanting to do more of it....

Sounds like a decent start on ideas.
If it were me I would put each building on a switch(s) and then connect them all with fiber back to the main site, and then have all of the buildings fibers, connect back into a main switch, which is then connected to the router, and out to the interwebnets. (bad sentence structure there :D)

As for routing and stuff. I would look into a way to control bandwidth useage per each port (also allow you to disable anyone that is hogging bandwidth, did not pay, etc). I would restrict them to a max of XXX down and XX up, etc so everyone will get a decent speed. Depending on how many buildings, you're going to need something better than busines class DSL IMHO. But of course, it also depends how restricted you are going. I knew some friends that only had a 10kbs connection :eek: at their apartment complex.

Another good way, to keep the cost down, would be to say put a business DSL connection per building to keep speeds up and ease of connectivity. I would still keep the network all coming back to a central point though for easy administration.

A T1 would be too slow, but a T3 would be sufficient for this... again, depending on how many people will be using it.
 
Thanks thats some good info. Another question: Does the fiber going to the buildings have to be in seperate conduit underground or can it be with the phone and power in the same conduit? I won't be the one running the fiber if that is what they go with but this is something the engineer asked me. Thanks a lot guys I'm sure I'll have more questions as I think about this.
 
Power is never run in the same conduit as anything else. I'd recommend power in one, data/voice in one, cable in one, and backbone links in another. That being said, there are too many variables. The best anyone can give you here is "CAT6, fiber, Cisco, Juniper, Foundry, etc". Here are some good questions you should be asking the engineering:

1) How many buildings?
2) How many units total?
3) How many units per floor?
4) How many units per building?
4) Budget for the project/hardware?
5) Redundancy for this non-critical network?
6) Bandwidth per unit?
7) Total monthly budget for internet access?
8) Allow servers on unit connection? (This will help you determine the configuration and will help lay out a policy for your users/tenants)
9) Maximum allowable systems per unit allowed on connection?
10) Drops per unit (cable, voice, and data)?
11) All 4 pairs for voice or just 1? (To save on costs for the runs)

That's all off the top of my head.. I'm sure if I had time I could compile a much larger list. That should narrow everything down for you. You ask such a general question here I will just shoot off buzz words :D.
 
You definately need to determine some requirements, as shade91 says, before making any decisions as to backhaul capacity (DSL, Cable, T1 etc.). In my experience, if you have even a moderate sized complex, say 6 units per building four or five buildings, you're going to exceed the capacity of a T1 or most Cable/DSL connections. DS3 would be your starting point, or multiple bonded T1s. Especially in these days where people expect 2 or 3 mbit connections at home.

Moving along, I think using a typical LAN/WAN architecture (switched ethernet) in this case would be a Bad Idea. More in line with providing residential service like this would be one CO with a fairly decent backhaul connection (see above), with service distributed to the individual units via a DSLAM at the CO and DSL modems in each unit.

This essentially turns the complex/apartment management into a mini-ISP. However, along with using ISP-type equipment comes the benefit of access control, turning people on and off, bandwidth management etc etc.

If you were to use switched ethernet as your distribution, having a switch in each building, backhauling over fiber to an aggregator/switch at the CO would be the way to go. However you would need to at the very least VLAN every single port on those switches, otherwise all your residents would be on one big LAN. Bad security, bad.

Lastly - fiber can be run with other telecom without fear of interference. Seperating Cable TV and phone is a good idea, but fiber can be run with either of those, since there is no electrical signal on the line, only optical.
 
Here's one company who's hardware I've worked with. Its not true Telco-grade DSL, but its intended for exactly what you're doing. They actually have a higher bandwidth version out now that beats Telco grade DSL equipment, and should be much cheaper that something from Cisco or Alcatel.

http://www.tutsystems.com/mtu/mdu.cfm
 
All great ideas so far.

Just one thing.

I want pics when this is finished :p :D
 
thanks everyone....I'll ask the engineer those questions and then maybe I can come up with a better solution for what they want. What they want isn't that clear to me. They just said I need this. I guess this is some new thing that if the developer does this they get more points for their development. amenthes that system looks great. I'll have to look into that. If I do this job then I'll make sure to take plenty of pictures but it will be some time...I can take some pics of the schematics if you want...haha ;)
 
amenthes said:
If you were to use switched ethernet as your distribution, having a switch in each building, backhauling over fiber to an aggregator/switch at the CO would be the way to go. However you would need to at the very least VLAN every single port on those switches, otherwise all your residents would be on one big LAN. Bad security, bad..
Click to expand...

All of this can be accomplished with a couple of big Layer3 switches (6509's) which will alllow you to control bandwidth while also controlling security, the way to go IMHO (more of a CoLo approach)...


Some more questions to consider...

1) What is your oversubscription rate going to be? You want to oversubscribe your circuits so that you are not spending more money than is required, basically, getting a DS3 day one, as some have suggested is probably not a good idea...

2) As far as voice is concerned, have you thought about providing a hosted IP Comm solution for tennants? Innfinitely more complex, but if you do the initial setup correctly your layer 2 infrastructure could support it and it could be revenue generating...
 
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