MS Thinks Sony Needs Multiple SKUs

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Rich Tate

Supreme [H]ardness
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Folks at Microsoft believe it is an absolute necessity that Sony start creating a low-end package for the PS3 and get it out there quick. They believe if the Christmas season is less than stellar, you can stick a fork in the PS3.

The old 60 GB SKU is being cleared out for $499 as quickly as possible - as you might recall, this was the supposed "price cut" that Sony announced. In reality, once supplies are gone in the next couple of months it'll be gone forever. However, that doesn't leave Sony in a good place. A single, $599 SKU would be untenable; if they don't move significant hardware this holiday they'll basically be dead for this generation.
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Given Sony's mule headed arrogance,I doubt they'll take advice from anyone.If they're so determined to stick it to the consumer for all they can get,I say let them sink.I doubt they can even catch up to the 360 at this point,let alone the Wii.
 
would you listen to your competition? Probably not. I guess the reverse trick phychology is say what they need to actually do, and they won't do it just because they think you're leading them into a trap. :).

Who gives one fly fuck what Sony does. Soon as they're dead the better :eek:.
 
We all know what's going to happen, as far as I'm concerned, the PS3 already is. The $500 SKU has been out since launch. No killer software, and a measly 4 million user-base worldwide, it's just not too good for them. Even with titles like FF13 and MGS4, good luck selling to 5 million users (instead of 20+ ala the PS2) by the time they release. :cool:
 
And MS should be worrying more about their alpha and beta operating systems :p
 
To MS: I'd like a $350 Xbox 360 w/HD DVD SKU. What, you don't want to fulfill my request? :(
 
defuseme2k said:
would you listen to your competition? Probably not. I guess the reverse trick phychology is say what they need to actually do, and they won't do it just because they think you're leading them into a trap.
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I agree, but I also think that the advice is spot on. That price cut that was rumored during E3, is bound to happen in time for the holiday shopping season. If that does happen, the top of the line 360 (with the new cooler 65nm parts) will still make the neutered "Core PS3" look like a rip off.

The funniest part of the potential situation is that it would likely be the cheapest Blu-Ray player you could buy.
 
This is ridiculous. Let me preface this by saying that I do own both a PS3 and a 360. When I purchased the 360 I paid $400 for the console and $200 for the HD-DVD add-on. That is $600, the same price as the PS3 when I purchased it. Except Sony doesn't charge you for online play and the PS3 also provides audio out via HDMI uncompressed which is great for those of us that have receivers to support it.

My damn 360 doesn't even do HDMI video let alone audio and in order to get it to work with HDMI I would have to get a new Elite system (which can't do HDMI audio) for $480. That's $20 shy of $700 if you include the HD-DVD add-on.

All of this and more Sony is including with the PS3 now for $500. Almost $200 cheaper than a comparable but not quite as adept MS system. I'm no fan boy, but I know a better deal when I see one.

Sure there may not be a lot popular titles yet but those of us that enjoy games like Virtua Fighter 5, Motostorm, Resistance, etc. are having a pretty good time.

In short, the PS3's price only LOOKS worse because it's an all-in-one package and MS thinks that in order for us early-adopters of their system to get something at least close to the PS3 we should have to shell out more major bucks. Doesn't add-up to me...
 
defuseme2k said:
would you listen to your competition? Probably not. I guess the reverse trick phychology is say what they need to actually do, and they won't do it just because they think you're leading them into a trap. :).

Who gives one fly fuck what Sony does. Soon as they're dead the better :eek:.
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It's funny that MS is giving them advice, but it's good advice for both of them.

If sony has to close up shop in its console arena, who exactly would benefit from that? MS is already the company that people love to hate in the monopoly area, I'm sure they want more attention in that area....
 
convexion said:
This is ridiculous. Let me preface this by saying that I do own both a PS3 and a 360. When I purchased the 360 I paid $400 for the console and $200 for the HD-DVD add-on. That is $600, the same price as the PS3 when I purchased it. Except Sony doesn't charge you for online play and the PS3 also provides audio out via HDMI uncompressed which is great for those of us that have receivers to support it.

My damn 360 doesn't even do HDMI video let alone audio and in order to get it to work with HDMI I would have to get a new Elite system (which can't do HDMI audio) for $480. That's $20 shy of $700 if you include the HD-DVD add-on.

All of this and more Sony is including with the PS3 now for $500. Almost $200 cheaper than a comparable but not quite as adept MS system. I'm no fan boy, but I know a better deal when I see one.

Sure there may not be a lot popular titles yet but those of us that enjoy games like Virtua Fighter 5, Motostorm, Resistance, etc. are having a pretty good time.

In short, the PS3's price only LOOKS worse because it's an all-in-one package and MS thinks that in order for us early-adopters of their system to get something at least close to the PS3 we should have to shell out more major bucks. Doesn't add-up to me...
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You bought a 200 dollar non gaming addon for your gaming machine. If sony had stuck with dvd, gone with a 200 dollar blu ray addon, they might have received my money.
 
Yeah, I use the HD-DVD add-on for my PC as well, what I'm saying is that for the average consumer that wants to get into High Def without using an HTPC then, guess what, the PS3 is the better deal.
 
Technoob said:
You bought a 200 dollar non gaming addon for your gaming machine. If sony had stuck with dvd, gone with a 200 dollar blu ray addon, they might have received my money.
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Agreed. If I could get a PS3 without bluray for $200 less I would get one. Well, maybe I wouldn't yet since there are still no games out that I want, though the HTPC capabilities would tempt me until there are some good games out for it.
 
So MS thinks that Sony should copy their POS core system? :D

Next MS will say that Nintendo needs to ditch the Wiimote and raise the price $100.

Too be honest I think the core system is what's dragging the 360 down, it was not much of generation leap over the Xbox.
 
I'm trying to work out how getting rid of the built in wireless and reducing hd size to a size that's about $10 cheaper than the 60 and removing the memory card reader will make it $100 cheaper.

Once you've factor in the cost of having multiple sku's and assembly lines I just can't see it adding up.
 
To make make Sony's situation worse they are losing a lot of their potential exclusives. Can we say MSG 4 is coming out on the 360. Yes. Also Microsoft nailed the deal with the GTA IV episodes. I think if you are looking to game the PS3 is way too expensive. Yes the new 360 elite is $480 but look, it has an established base, great content already out, and the bugs are worked out. Don't get me wrong, I have always been the avid Playstation fan, I just think they could've worked it out better. Also, if you don't own that shiny new LCD tv the HDMI and Bluray/HD DVD doesn't make a lick of a difference. Guess what, I own a nice 52" Projection TV only a couple of years old. (Keep in mind nothing but LCDs support 1080p and 720p) To me 1080i and my upconverting dvd player makes for an awesome movie experience.
 
For me and I think people like me (granted, we're in the minority) image quality is very important for movies and games which is the main reason for owning a next-gen system capable of high def playback. Personally, I watch movies and game on a 100" screen using a 720p projector so it's easy to make out the subtle differences in image quality between formats. This is why the PS3 is by far the better deal in my case. It fits my needs very well for the HT environment I have.

I also have a 51" CRT RPTV and while the image is great on it I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a well produced standard DVD and a high def release at that image size. I can see where you are coming from, why bother with high def if you can't tell the difference and it makes sense with most conventional TVs, HD or otherwise.

However, if you have something capable of displaying a HD image at a large size, have a good speaker setup with a good receiver, and don't already own an HTPC, I think it still stands to reason that the PS3 is by far the better and more cost-effective solution over the X360. I love both of the systems, but I get more use out of the PS3 because it really has more to offer me as far as movies go.

So basically all I'm saying is that I think a first time buyer that has a great home theater but doesn't have an HTPC couldn't really do better than a PS3 without spending considerably more money. That is why it's actually a pretty good deal when you think about it and add it all up. But if you aren't interested in HD movies in the least, then you're right, it's not what you want or need.
 
gr!m said:
(Keep in mind nothing but LCDs support 1080p and 720p)
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Hmm... I guess the 58" 1080p plasma in my living room is just my imagination.

Other than that you are mostly on point. I bought my PS3 right after the price drop for Blu-ray and as my media server. It has done well for both. So far I really haven't gotten into gaming with the PS3 other than the GT and Heavenly Sword demo. Sad thing is I play GT4 for PS2 on it more than I play any PS3 games. Overall, their game lineup right now is just sad and like you were getting at you kinda need games for something that is primarily a game machine.

That said, MS is right on this one, the desperately need something that is going to get them closer to the price the mass market is willing to pay. They are making a step in the right direction with the 80gb PS3 since it will enable them to cut costs. (Personally I am glad I have the PS2 hardware in my PS3.) Also, remember that the current $599 is a bundle. Technically, if they unbundled they could get down to $499 again with little problem once the 60gb models are no longer in stock.
 
gr!m said:
To make make Sony's situation worse they are losing a lot of their potential exclusives. Can we say MSG 4 is coming out on the 360. Yes. Also Microsoft nailed the deal with the GTA IV episodes. I think if you are looking to game the PS3 is way too expensive. Yes the new 360 elite is $480 but look, it has an established base, great content already out, and the bugs are worked out. Don't get me wrong, I have always been the avid Playstation fan, I just think they could've worked it out better. Also, if you don't own that shiny new LCD tv the HDMI and Bluray/HD DVD doesn't make a lick of a difference. Guess what, I own a nice 52" Projection TV only a couple of years old. (Keep in mind nothing but LCDs support 1080p and 720p) To me 1080i and my upconverting dvd player makes for an awesome movie experience.
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My god you are so uninformed. They are not losing a lot of potential exclusives. They "lost" assassins creed, which was never mentioned as an exclusive. They did lose DMC4. GTA IV, if you knew anything about gaming, Rockstar went to Sony, and Sony made a deal with them. Rockstar said let them make GTAIV cross-platform, and their next big franchise will be exclusive to Sony, Sony said fine. MS made a deal with Rockstar for a franchise Sony apparently doesn't care about THAT much anymore. Have fun paying for extra episodes. If that's what floats your boat, MS won't nickel and dime me (fighting with Epic because Epic wanted to make extra Gears content free, MS made them charge, which has caused the current riff). Oh, Sony nailed UT3 and Haze as timed console exclusives. IT goes both ways.

I'm going to say just three letters regarding your 1080p and 720p comment. DLP. That comment alone discredits your whole post.

That said, MS will get my money as soon as they come out with Falcon 65nm chips. I might not even wait that long since I have a Best Buy gift card burning a whole in my pocket. Mass Effect looks too damn fun/good to pass up.
 
And Kojima has already said MGS4 is and will remain a PS3 exclusive. There have been rumors, but according to Konami they are only going to release it for the PS3. Come to think of it, they never did release a version of MGS3 for the Xbox. Who know what the future holds though.
 
BladeVenom said:
Now all we need is Nintendo giving Microsoft advice on what to make.
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If Microsoft was smart,they'd listen to them.Retailers can't keep enough Wii's on the shelves.It doesn't suit my tastes in gaming,but I give Nintendo all the credit in the world for tapping into the casual gamer/family market and providing a low cost system that suits their needs.
 
hmmm, microsoft hasn't made 1$ of profit on either system and has lost billions.
not sure i'd take their advice.

nintendo seems to has the right solution these days.
 
convexion said:
Yeah, I use the HD-DVD add-on for my PC as well, what I'm saying is that for the average consumer that wants to get into High Def without using an HTPC then, guess what, the PS3 is the better deal.
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no "the average consumer" at that point would be better off just going out and buy a standalone HD-DVD player at bestbuy for $299...

i mean, they just bought an HDTV... which they know the HD part makes it better than their old TV thing... soooo now they want to watch their DVD's... on their HDTV... look! an HD-DVD! perfect! man i am soooo smart! :D

also most people probably dont even know that game consoles can play movies...
 
Sony's pricing is probably way to high, but going microsoft's route and offering a crippled version of the ps3 that has a high failiure rate is not the way to go either.

Both plans have positives and negatives in the end really.
 
coolcool23 said:
Sony's pricing is probably way to high, but going microsoft's route and offering a crippled version of the ps3 that has a high failiure rate is not the way to go either.

Both plans have positives and negatives in the end really.
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I'm pretty sure sure that microsoft's route wasn't to offer a crippled system with higher failure rates. Be careful when you exaggerate, it makes your point useless.

michealo said:
hmmm, microsoft hasn't made 1$ of profit on either system and has lost billions.
not sure i'd take their advice.
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Neither has Sony and they had the best selling console of all times(PS2) and a strong revenue stream for years. MS will see a profit from their entertainment division by 2Q 2008 when the first xbox debuted only 7 years ago. I actually would take their advice since they still posted an overall profit this quarter even with spending ~$1billion on warranty extensions.
 
XamediX said:
Neither has Sony and they had the best selling console of all times(PS2) and a strong revenue stream for years. MS will see a profit from their entertainment division by 2Q 2008 when the first xbox debuted only 7 years ago. I actually would take their advice since they still posted an overall profit this quarter even with spending ~$1billion on warranty extensions.
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What? Sony has made a ton of money off the PS1 and PS2. Not sure what you are talking about. It took MS 7 years to estimate when they might turn a profit, yet they have over 7 billion (by last count, give or take) in accumulated losses. Sony, on the other hand, has had analysts point out that their gaming division was propping up other divisions in the past (opposite is true for now).

Sony has also posted a profit with their losses from the PS3, at least for the last two fiscal quarters. See for yourself:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/07q1/
 
FLECOM said:
buy a standalone HD-DVD player at bestbuy for $299.....
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Wow, I had no idea they were selling them that cheap now. But obviously when I said "average consumer" I meant average consumer that plays video games. Notice I said best deal for the all-in-one PACKAGE, which negates the "average" average consumer that doesn't play games. ;)
 
deeznuts said:
What? Sony has made a ton of money off the PS1 and PS2. Not sure what you are talking about. It took MS 7 years to estimate when they might turn a profit, yet they have over 7 billion (by last count, give or take) in accumulated losses. Sony, on the other hand, has had analysts point out that their gaming division was propping up other divisions in the past (opposite is true for now).

Sony has also posted a profit with their losses from the PS3, at least for the last two fiscal quarters. See for yourself:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/07q1/
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I think he meant the ps3. If he meant that the ps2 didn't make money...that'd be crazy.
 
Technoob said:
I think he meant the ps3. If he meant that the ps2 didn't make money...that'd be crazy.
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Well he said in response to "MS hasn't made money on either console" was "Neither has Sony and they had the best selling console of all times(PS2) and a strong revenue stream for years"

So. It's crazy. :p
 
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