Motion sickness and ULMB

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TastEPlasma

Limp Gawd
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Just wanted to see if anyone else has had this issue with this technology.

Some background: I have had some issues with motion sickness and FPSs in the past. The first one I can remember giving me issues was Perfect Dark on the N64.

Since then, I have isolated a number of issues that increase the probability or intensity of experiencing motion sickness. For me, the following things are potentiators, and I try to avoid or disable these things:

  • Depth of Field, especially overly strong implementations
  • Wide View Angles, gotta keep it below 90 degrees, preferably below 80
  • Nicotine, but I quit smoking a decade ago, so no longer an issue
  • Generally feeling nauseous anyways, from crappy food, too much (sugary) alcohol, etc
  • Room lighting; Got to play FPSs in a ambiently well lit room, no dark room gaming for me.

I recently got a new Dell S2617DG, which has GSync and ULMB.

The big surprise for me was how Gsync actually reduces feelings of motion sickness, especially in games that I was getting very high frame rates in (>=90fps). This was a really pleasant discovery, and I intend to keep digging to see how far this rabbit hold goes.

But, I tried ULMB, and it seriously screwed with my eyes. Monitor had it set to 100Hz, and I tried the game that I had discovered the the benefit of Gsync on, and immediately i knew something was up. Other than the slightly darker screen, which I had expected, there was something going on that my hind brain was picking up on. It's almost impossible to describe.

What I can say, is that I very quickly got motion sickness, and much like the worst of these I have ever experienced, I felt disoriented and sickly for a good half an hour after I quit playing. I don't think I will be using ULMB again anytime soon.

TL:DR; ULMB gave me motion sickness, GSync awesome, anyone else have this experience?
 
Your framerate must be equal to your refresh rate with ULMB enabled.
You need to have V-Sync on, and never drop a frame.

I cannot understand why NVIDIA restrict ULMB to 85/100/120Hz when this is the case.
 
Not really related to ulmb, but I notice I get motion sick (well simulator sickness) when the FOV (field of view) is low and im close to my monitors. At 80 - 90 degrees FOV, I'd nearly have to be at couch to tv distances in order to not get sick.

On 16:9 monitors, I use FOV 110 and on 16:10 FOV 100.

Games that more often than not destroy my stomach are Portal and The Stanley Parable.
 
I had forgotten that ULMB has to be perfectly matched to a couple of specific framerates. That's alright though, I am super stoked about Gsync, I can try messing with ULMB some more later.

Interestingly enough, I never get sick with any Source engine games. Portal, Portal 2, HL2, and L4D2, no issues at all.

The worst for me was F.E.A.R. 1. Within 20 minutes I had a bout of nausea that lasted for several hours. That was insane. I played through the entirety of F.E.A.R. 2 no probs. *shrug*
 
NVidia/monitor mfrs should employ you as a subliminal detector.
No doubt it would help them produce displays that are easier on the brain/eye.
But they need to clone you first cos you probably wont last long.
 
Lol, yea, I think I'll pass.

*Free monitors and video cards for life*

Hand me a five gallon bucket, lets do this. :vomit:
 
I have a CRT, so my monitor has similar effect. You are either noticing the flicker or frame doubling.

To stop flicker, increase refresh rate.

To stop frame doubling, make sure the FPS are equal or greater to refresh rate. If you cannot get enough FPS, you can lower refresh rate but that will aggravate any flicker issues.
 
zone74 said:
Your framerate must be equal to your refresh rate with ULMB enabled.
You need to have V-Sync on, and never drop a frame.

I cannot understand why NVIDIA restrict ULMB to 85/100/120Hz when this is the case.
Click to expand...

Put bluntly: Because NVIDEO is run by a bunch of idiots and makes products for the lowest common denominator. If they allowed 75Hz or 60Hz, assholes would be busy complaining about the flicker without being smart enough to raise the refresh rate without assistance.

It is possible to build strobe back lights in LCDs, but you need a lot of electronics experience. That, and Light boost / EIZO turbo240 / benq strobe is the best option, so you get the benefit of flicker without the joke that nVidia is.
 
rabidz7 said:
Put bluntly: Because NVIDEO is run by a bunch of idiots and makes products for the lowest common denominator. If they allowed 75Hz or 60Hz, assholes would be busy complaining about the flicker without being smart enough to raise the refresh rate without assistance.

It is possible to build strobe back lights in LCDs, but you need a lot of electronics experience. That, and Light boost / EIZO turbo240 / benq strobe is the best option, so you get the benefit of flicker without the joke that nVidia is.
Click to expand...
BenQ Blur Reduction only works correctly on a single monitor.
Eizo Turbo 240 doubles frames.
Lightboost and ULMB are the only two strobe technologies available on multiple displays which actually work, and both were developed by NVIDIA.
As I understand it, BenQ's Blur Reduction is just a modified version of LightBoost anyway.

Though it's restricted to 85/100/120Hz, ULMB is still the best option available for anyone using an LCD today that wants strobing.
So you should be thanking NVIDIA for pushing technologies like these, instead of constantly criticizing them due to your irrational hatred of G-Sync, because you don't understand how it works or what it does.
 
do you have any new suggestions for dealing with motion sickness in games since this post was made? thanks!

TastEPlasma said:
Just wanted to see if anyone else has had this issue with this technology.

Some background: I have had some issues with motion sickness and FPSs in the past. The first one I can remember giving me issues was Perfect Dark on the N64.

Since then, I have isolated a number of issues that increase the probability or intensity of experiencing motion sickness. For me, the following things are potentiators, and I try to avoid or disable these things:

  • Depth of Field, especially overly strong implementations
  • Wide View Angles, gotta keep it below 90 degrees, preferably below 80
  • Nicotine, but I quit smoking a decade ago, so no longer an issue
  • Generally feeling nauseous anyways, from crappy food, too much (sugary) alcohol, etc
  • Room lighting; Got to play FPSs in a ambiently well lit room, no dark room gaming for me.

I recently got a new Dell S2617DG, which has GSync and ULMB.

The big surprise for me was how Gsync actually reduces feelings of motion sickness, especially in games that I was getting very high frame rates in (>=90fps). This was a really pleasant discovery, and I intend to keep digging to see how far this rabbit hold goes.

But, I tried ULMB, and it seriously screwed with my eyes. Monitor had it set to 100Hz, and I tried the game that I had discovered the the benefit of Gsync on, and immediately i knew something was up. Other than the slightly darker screen, which I had expected, there was something going on that my hind brain was picking up on. It's almost impossible to describe.

What I can say, is that I very quickly got motion sickness, and much like the worst of these I have ever experienced, I felt disoriented and sickly for a good half an hour after I quit playing. I don't think I will be using ULMB again anytime soon.

TL:DR; ULMB gave me motion sickness, GSync awesome, anyone else have this experience?
Click to expand...
 
No new suggestions but I can confirm that G-Sync helps people with motion sickness.
I set up a test with games running at 90+ FPS and with G-Sync the viewers were fine with it.
As soon as I disabled G-Sync they started to show signs of motion sickness.
It instantly sold these people on G-Sync because they had been avoiding many types of game before this because they didn't think they could play them without getting sick.
 
You think thats bad....you should try VR. VR hits you with simulator sickness which is the opposite of motion sickness and is far, far worse.

Unlike motion sickness, there is no pill, no drug you can take to prevent simulator sickness.....and when you get VR sick it really messes with you....It took me literally two days to fully recover from a bout with the second Oculus Consumer devel kit....I am so hesitant to play VR again, that my VIVE has been sitting unopened, factory sealed for the better part of half a year....I should just sell it lol
 
OP, do CRT displays also make you feel sick? ULMB is essentially similar to that so if you are sensitive to flicker that might cause it even if ULMB flickers at higher frequency. I often use ULMB when I can run a game at 60+ fps consistently so I don't believe you need to be running at solid 120 fps or something.

Interesting that higher field of view causes issues, usually it's low FOV that feels like wearing binoculars. Many FPS games nowadays are made with FOVs that fit consoles and TVs so when played on a desktop display that is much closer, the 60 degree FOV feels cramped and unnatural compared to 80-90. Low FOV is also part of why VR can make you motion sick so that's one aspect they are trying to improve.
 
bAMtan2 said:
do you have any new suggestions for dealing with motion sickness in games since this post was made? thanks!
Click to expand...

Well, I have do have a handful of things that I do to lessen motion sickness. Undoubtedly YMMV. (After writing this I realized I re-touched on some things I previously related, but I expounded on a couple of them as well. Hopefully this is still helpful.)
  1. Don't play when your eyes are already tired/strained. I work as a programmer, so after a day of staring at screens all day, my eyes need a rest. I give em at least a couple of hours minimum, preferably looking at distant, natural sun-lit scenery e.g. on a walk.
  2. Lighting is important. I rearranged the lighting in my room, and when I play I open a window to let some natural light in. Lots of gentle, ambient light seems to be best.
  3. Drugs. I hate benedryl/dramamine with a passion, not because they don't work but because I just feel like garbage on them (worth noting that dramamine is just benedryl + a stimulant to counter the sleepiness). Some people report a lot of success though. I find a beer can be helpful, as can be a small amount of marijuana. However, years ago back when I smoked cigarettes they were a major factor in making the motion sickness worse, and I have also found that an excess of caffeine tends to exacerbate the ill feelings. As previously mentioned, a balanced blood sugar helps; no sugary, nutrition-less BS.
  4. Distance from monitor. I make sure to sit back from the monitor. I never really measured before now, but I sit back about 30 inches away from my monitor, which is still the S2617DG. I think that keeping that much frame of reference inside my view is necessary for my hind brain, and honestly within seconds of playing I'm not paying attention to anything not on the monitor anyways. I do find I occasionally have to remind myself to sit back though. (Thinking about it, back in the day I had a 19" CRT, and never had issues with 3D games... until I went over to play Perfect Dark on my friends 32" Sony Trinitron, which we sat like 6" away from.)
  5. The first 15 minutes tell the tale. When I start a gaming session, I try to pay attention for that first 15 minutes especially. If I start to fell the woozy coming on, I stop and walk away. Sometimes it is just not a good day for it. Sucks, but I'd rather keep my gaming (and post-gaming) sessions fun.
  6. Fancy 3D effects. Ok, this isn't just about motion sickness for me, this is also a pet peeve. Fucking chromatic aberration? Really? I get really tired of games being configured to just look good in screen shots, which emulate photography. Except photography is often a lie, and not representative of viewing the world through human eyes at all. So I turn off things like Depth of Field (I can focus my own damn eyeballs thanks), chromatic aberration (I'm not that drunk. Probably.), and sometimes over done HDR implementations. For me, film grain and motion blur are a toss-up. Depending on implementation, they sometimes help, hurt, or have no effect at all. I do feel like film grain in the long run increases eye strain, which can be an issue if your eyes are already tired. Crazy how we buy $500+ video cards and high end monitors, just so we can make everything grainy and blurry, lol. Similarly, games with lots of busy motion, spinning, and debris can be exhausting. Like I said before, wide angle views on a flat monitor is a no go for me.
  7. Refocus your eyes on the plane of the screen. I find it is helpful to occasionally consciously remind myself that I am looking at a flat picture. I let my eyes relax and take in the entire of the image instead of focusing on one element, particularly small elements off in the distance. De-focus and absorb all at once.
So that is about it for the stuff I actually do, that anecdotally has a positive effect on my gaming experiences. I rarely play 3D games for long that I'm not super into. I figure if I am going to put in that much effort, it should be something that I really enjoy.

Now I have a few other things that I have not personally tried, that might be of use.
  1. Grey frame interleaving every 25th frame. I discovered this concept while looking into VR, and what it does is introduces an all grey frame at regular intervals. If your frame rate is high that frame won't even be noticeable, but it has statistically significant positive results on people with motion sickness. Let me see if I can find the link: I actually really want to experiment with this concept, but haven't found any pre-made drivers or implementations. I currently do not have the specific knowledge to write something like this for myself, and don't know how feasible it is.
  2. Center dot on the screen as frame of reference, like those crosshair stickers used by some on first person shooters. Never tried it, but it seems like a front and center frame of reference might be helpful.
  3. Apparently having a nose in the image can have a positive effect: https://www.wired.com/2015/04/reduce-vr-sickness-just-add-virtual-nose/
As an aside, I did get an Oculus Rift, and I love the thing. For the most part, I have few issues with it, and when I do run into a piece of software that gives me trouble, it's just like "Hello motion sickness, my old friend". Super HOT in particular is a brilliantly designed game; the super clean graphics are very easy on the eyes, and I never had any issues with motion sickness while playing it. Robo-recall is very good despite the fast paced action. Google Earth was iffy for me, and after the novelty wore off was no longer worth it. Quill was the worst thing I have tried, instantly noped out when I realized their control scheme had you grabbing and rotating the world around you. Blech, kinda upsets my stomach just thinking about it.

kasakka For me, it is when the field of view gets big enough compared to the aspect of the monitor to create the fish-eye lens effect. For an exaggerated version of this, watch this on a single monitor:

I personally think psychology also plays a role; now that I have spent all this time thinking about motion sickness, there is no way I am going to try and play some more Dying Light until later this afternoon, lol. Oh well, I need to do some cleaning anyways. XD
 
TastEPlasma said:
kasakka For me, it is when the field of view gets big enough compared to the aspect of the monitor to create the fish-eye lens effect. For an exaggerated version of this, watch this on a single monitor:
Click to expand...


I see what you mean. I remember getting quesy from running 100+ FOV on Quake back in the day. I don't think most modern games allow you to set FOV so high that you get that fisheye lense but I guess it's still possible with triple monitors, maybe on ultrawides too.
 
I never experienced motion sickness but I can't understand the people who enjoys the "fish effect" though from overaggerated FOV, that's always such a puke-inducing feel for me haha.
 
Interesting. For me it's low FOV that causes motion sickness. My understanding of how it works is that if the FOV is too close to reality, your visual system thinks it is real, and it's that mismatch in "reality" between what your eyes are telling you and what your body is feeling that causes motion sickness.

With high FOV, I figure the more "fisheyed" view is less realistic, and therefore less likely to be considered "real" by your visual system. Which, in turn, should prevent the visual-proprioceptive dissonance leading to motion sickness.

Clearly though, it works differently for different people.
 
"fish effect" should be get fix in videogames. only way is portrait multi monitor.

only got motion sickness in payday 1, headache back of head right side:yuck:
 
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