Most ATMs Still Run Windows XP

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I knew some ATMs ran Windows XP, but I had no idea it was this many. :eek:

Inside every ATM casing is a computer, and like all such devices, each one runs on an OS. Microsoft’s 12-year-old Windows XP dominates the ATM market, powering more than 95 percent of the world’s machines and a similar percentage in the U.S., according to Robert Johnston, a marketing director at NCR (NCR), the largest ATM supplier in the U.S.
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I can confirm this - very much the case especially with small banks. I think most Wellsfargo's ATM's are Win7 because I caught one in a boot loop once :p
 
I've seen several crashed ATM's running XP. Same with a ton of kiosk displays. Cheap hardware, software is easy to create for Windows...
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Why not Unix?
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I have wondered that myself... Unix, BSD or Linux.... Upgrades are extremely easy, it's very stable, very portable, can run on a ton of hardware. I won't go into the security aspect of it... It would really make a lot more sense, and I'm a Windows guy.
 
Friend of mine is an ATM tech... XP Embedded. It just "works" according to him. Plus, to change requries all sorts of re-certification and other crazy paperwork stuff. As stated, the hardware to run them is very cheap -- yet pretty dang reliable.
 
Tekara said:
Windows is more cost effective in terms of support.
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I suppose, but other than the hardware and ATM software, I don't see much that can go wrong. The bank would have their own IT for the ATM software (or contractors), and they do have their own hardware guys. A simple Unix install doesn't really need support.
 
somecallmeTim said:
Friend of mine is an ATM tech... XP Embedded. It just "works" according to him. Plus, to change requries all sorts of re-certification and other crazy paperwork stuff. As stated, the hardware to run them is very cheap -- yet pretty dang reliable.
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Indeed. I'm confused why this would surprise anyone. I mean, how much computing power do you really need to run an ATM ?!!?! Would spending a penny to upgrade to a newer version net you... anything ? And if not, why on earth would you ever do it ?
 
deadrody said:
Indeed. I'm confused why this would surprise anyone. I mean, how much computing power do you really need to run an ATM ?!!?! Would spending a penny to upgrade to a newer version net you... anything ? And if not, why on earth would you ever do it ?
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The main cost is regulatory and the mechanical bits for the cash counting, dispensing, and also -- they are pretty dang well built in terms of being ...I quote my friend "Fucking Heavy...." they can take a lot of abuse, temperature, and they have to keep on working. Changing the OS nets them nothing - in fact, it will cost them significant amounts of money.
 
I still see a lot of small businesses and even my bank still use Windows XP. Why fix what ain't broke if it still does the job for you?
 
Actually, it might. Not sure how much it would cost? Half a billion dollars? What are the costs to upgrade from XP to 7.... Then in a decade going to 9 or 10 or whatever. With a *nix type system, the upgrades would be much easier. It wouldn't require a whole system change and possible compatibility (doubtful there is much, if any with Windows, either). Over the long run, it could save money. Possibly. I don't know what the costs are to develop and deploy a *nix based system vs. upgrading Windows every decade.
 
I used to work for NCR. The basic operating system used to be OS2 and then they switched to xp. Updating those ATM's is going to be a pain that's for sure. Most banks keep them forever and the processors are the slowest things imaginable even when they where new. But at least the newer ones when I left in 2008 had a box that looked like a industrial computer with more standard atx components in them. The older ones where completely proprietary.
 
The EMV liability shift will force a lot of FI's to upgrade their ATMs. We are upgrading our ATMs in anticipation of the liability shift this year, so this won't be much of an issue - but our network is small. What a burden for the big players.
 
I used to work on the casino ones. Was an old PC in the box with a ton of USB connections and Windows XP Pro. Nothing fancy.

They like to keep it simple like that because it's the old "if it ain't broke, why should we upgrade?" ideal.

But to be honest, I don't know why they don't run a Linux. With the tech out now, a Beaglebone Black could probably do the work.
 
Most ATMs run software so godawful slow. It shouldn't take 10 damn seconds to print a statement. HSBC I'm finding though has ATMs that are super fast.
 
People still use ATMs? I haven't used one in about 20 years now. It's just impossible to tell whether or not an ATM has a skimmer on it.
 
said ATMs running XP also probably have automatic updates turned off = never updated anyways.
 
Used one the other day. Heard the xylophone "GUNK!" (the sound XP makes for alerts) when I used it. :)
 
evilsofa said:
People still use ATMs? I haven't used one in about 20 years now. It's just impossible to tell whether or not an ATM has a skimmer on it.
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At this point I think that is a risk of using a card anywhere. :( you can't even trust stores to not be running a network wide skimmer
 
dangerouseddy said:
ive seen xp on asda and morrisons self checkouts, also a lot of nhs pc's seem to use it too.
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Yeah, retail POS systems and government systems are probably huge chunks of the installed XP base.

The market share figures estimated are usually from systems used for browsing the Internet. Many systems, like POS, ATMs, and internal network only PCs go uncounted.
 
shade91 said:
Most ATMs run software so godawful slow. It shouldn't take 10 damn seconds to print a statement. HSBC I'm finding though has ATMs that are super fast.
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I assumed they did that on purpose so that you would look at the ads for all of their services while waiting for a timer to count down in the background.
 
dangerouseddy said:
ive seen xp on asda and morrisons self checkouts, also a lot of nhs pc's seem to use it too.
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yep and the UK post offices still use nt 4.0, many banks a even worse still dependent on systems from the 70s never mind the 80s/90s.00s etc
 
evilsofa said:
People still use ATMs? I haven't used one in about 20 years now. It's just impossible to tell whether or not an ATM has a skimmer on it.
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I would wager (at least in the U.S.) that most people rarely step into a bank. The only time I do is to deposit a check (because most ATMs don't take deposits). Then again, the account I keep most of my money in isn't the bank I withdraw money from (but that's just a coincidence).
 
nilepez said:
I would wager (at least in the U.S.) that most people rarely step into a bank. The only time I do is to deposit a check (because most ATMs don't take deposits). Then again, the account I keep most of my money in isn't the bank I withdraw money from (but that's just a coincidence).
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depends on your bank. Chase lets you deposit from your phone. Other big banks, at least the ones that I know of, allow you to deposit from the ATM. I have done that for years with my bank.
 
Exavior said:
depends on your bank. Chase lets you deposit from your phone. Other big banks, at least the ones that I know of, allow you to deposit from the ATM. I have done that for years with my bank.
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That typically only works if the ATM is attached to the bank. If it's a drive through ATM, they often do not take deposits.

How do you deposit a check with your phone?
 
nilepez said:
That typically only works if the ATM is attached to the bank. If it's a drive through ATM, they often do not take deposits.

How do you deposit a check with your phone?
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Every Chase drive-thru ATM I've come across allows deposits (both cash and check, no need for envelopes or slips). I never walk inside a branch or walk up to an ATM. Chase's mobile app is great, deposit tons of checks through it. Never had any problems with security.

You guys have fun with your tinfoil hats and doing everything last-century's way.
 
colinstu said:
Every Chase drive-thru ATM I've come across allows deposits (both cash and check, no need for envelopes or slips). I never walk inside a branch or walk up to an ATM. Chase's mobile app is great, deposit tons of checks through it. Never had any problems with security.

You guys have fun with your tinfoil hats and doing everything last-century's way.
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This article focuses on iOS apps but I'm sure the same can be said for Android and WP.

Security Vulnerabilities Found in 90% of Top Mobile Banking Apps
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/security-vulnerabilities-found-90-top-mobile-banking-apps-1431698
 
Yaka said:
thos who are jailbreaking are prolly more at risk
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None of the security issues mentioned in that article had anything to do with jail breaking. It was about the lackluster security in the apps.
 
jkerr2 said:
I used to work for NCR. The basic operating system used to be OS2 and then they switched to xp. Updating those ATM's is going to be a pain that's for sure. Most banks keep them forever and the processors are the slowest things imaginable even when they where new. But at least the newer ones when I left in 2008 had a box that looked like a industrial computer with more standard atx components in them. The older ones where completely proprietary.
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Thanks for the insight. Short sighted cutting costs at every corner like any other business
 
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