More driver issues on ATI compared to NV, since when?

J

joecuddles

[H]ard|Gawd
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Aug 16, 2004
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First of all, I don't want this to turn into a war. I've only recently become aware in the hardware side of things, and don't know much of past history, so I'm asking these questions out of curiousity and simply to know, please don't go all crazy like all of you usually do ;)

I've heard so much talk of ATI having driver issues compared to NV, but honestly have not heard any issues recently. I look through threads and hear complaints from NV drivers about CSS bugs, Far Cry problems, shadow issues in EQ2, the list goes on. I'm just curious as to where all this talk of ATI drivers having issues come from, as with the x800 line, I haven't heard a thing (or had any issues myself). So is this something that has happened previously, and is being corrected? Or is it still going on, and I'm simply missing it. All I've heard as far as driver complaints go is from the NV side of things.

And I'm talking Windows drivers here, not Linux. We all know how ATI handles Linux ;)
 
So no one knows? Did I just imagine people saying ATI had so many compatibility / driver issues?

I don't think I did...
 
I have had more driver problems with ATi cards overall. Always have. But I've not had the driver problems that most people have had. Since I got my X800Pro and my 6800GT I've not had trouble with either one. Except with Farcry and the first driver release for the X800Pro. I had horrid unplayable video corruption. After getting a newer update driver a day or two later the problem was corrected.

I have yet to ever have a driver problem with my 6800GT.
 
Once upon a time. Ati drivers really, really suxored. They cleaned up their act a few months after the release of the 8500. And have been pretty good since then. Nvidia drivers have been really good for a long long time. Ati has pretty much caught up, but, imo, are still lagging a just a little behind nvidia in the driver dept.
 
GORANKAR said:
Once upon a time. Ati drivers really, really suxored. They cleaned up their act a few months after the release of the 8500. And have been pretty good since then. Nvidia drivers have been really good for a long long time. Ati has pretty much caught up, but, imo, are still lagging a just a little behind nvidia in the driver dept.
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word...they used to be horrible...now they are much better...but only in directx...Nvidia's driver team has always been vastly superior...evidenced by ACTUAL support for linux and wildly superior OpenGL drivers...

when it comes to drivers, Nvidia is the ferrari, ATi is the tricked out honda civic...
 
Yeah, it's old news. They have gotten a lot better, on par with nvidia for sure. Except linux.
 
Quality wise they're just as good as nVidia in DX. In OGL they still need work to be on par performance wise and linux seems to be an afterthought for them. Overall nVidia seems to still have a slight edge because of the aforementioned factors. Still though, nV is suffering from a shimmering issue, I keep bringing it up because its something a lot of guys like ^empty^ pretend doesn't exist. Whether its a driver or hardware bug remains to be seen.

In fact, if this shimmering problem wasn't around, I can honestly say I'd have a 6800 U in my machine right now instead of my PE.
 
creedAMD said:
Yeah, it's old news. They have gotten a lot better, on par with nvidia for sure. Except linux.
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Dont' forget OGL.

In fact, if this shimmering problem wasn't around, I can honestly say I'd have a 6800 U in my machine right now instead of my PE.
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Ya right, and I'm Clark Kent.
 
The Batman said:
Dont' forget OGL.



Ya right, and I'm Clark Kent.
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You're a nobody, I don't have anything to prove to you. Fact is if it wasn't a problem I WOULD have bought a 6800U. Money isn't an issue for me at all, quality is.
 
ATi's drivers have improved alot wouldn't say as good as nV yet, stability wise just fine in Dx, Ogl well drivers can only do so much....

Performance wise not as good as nV, as you see nV's drivers are less CPU dependent now. It could be because of ATi architecture though but have to wait and see on that.
 
MFZ said:
Quality wise they're just as good as nVidia in DX. In OGL they still need work to be on par performance wise and linux seems to be an afterthought for them. Overall nVidia seems to still have a slight edge because of the aforementioned factors. Still though, nV is suffering from a shimmering issue, I keep bringing it up because its something a lot of guys like ^empty^ pretend doesn't exist. Whether its a driver or hardware bug remains to be seen.

In fact, if this shimmering problem wasn't around, I can honestly say I'd have a 6800 U in my machine right now instead of my PE.
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I am running a pny 6800 ultra and have not experienced any shimmering in any games. I have tried the 61.32, 61.77, and now the 66.81's. I personnally haven't experienced this shimmering.
 
I personally havent had any driver issues (cept for in COD) with my 9800pro, but it is worth mentioning that ATI's Linux drivers are absolutely terrible. Thats why I'm upgrading to a 6800GT when I get my paycheck. (just got a job with the school system, w00t).
 
MFZ said:
You're a nobody, I don't have anything to prove to you. Fact is if it wasn't a problem I WOULD have bought a 6800U. Money isn't an issue for me at all, quality is.
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You seem to be grasping for issues like a drowing man is grasphing for a lifepreserver. You conveniantly ignore the fact that while most people AREN'T experiencing this shimmering the ones that are have a found a workaround for it, namely by loweing the LOD.

Like I said son, the second I find you capable of entertaining rational thought is the day I start saving kittens from trees.
 
Is there a reason everyone has to mention NV's Linux support when 90% of the people with NV cards won't ever use Linux? I'm talking Windows here, Linux support is null for 98% of gamers, I don't see why it keeps being brought up.
 
joecuddles said:
Is there a reason everyone has to mention NV's Linux support when 90% of the people with NV cards won't ever use Linux? I'm talking Windows here, Linux support is null for 98% of gamers, I don't see why it keeps being brought up.
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Did you actually want constructive feedback or people to just say all is rosy with ATI drivers?

anyway, this might help you find what you are looking for:
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33705231
 
joecuddles said:
Is there a reason everyone has to mention NV's Linux support when 90% of the people with NV cards won't ever use Linux? I'm talking Windows here, Linux support is null for 98% of gamers, I don't see why it keeps being brought up.
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Is there a reason everyone has to mention the shimmering bug when 90% of the people with NV cards won't ever run across it? I don't see why it keeps being brought up.
 
Buy a 6800U : Chance of shimmering. It's different, and if it's a hardware issue I'd consider it null in terms of drivers.

I just don't see why people are making purchasing opinions based on support for an OS they'll never use, it makes no sense to me. And as far as the information I'm looking for, please refer to the first post :

joecuddles said:
And I'm talking Windows drivers here, not Linux. We all know how ATI handles Linux ;)
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joecuddles said:
Buy a 6800U : Chance of shimmering. It's different, and if it's a hardware issue I'd consider it null in terms of drivers.

I just don't see why people are making purchasing opinions based on support for an OS they'll never use, it makes no sense to me. And as far as the information I'm looking for, please refer to the first post :
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link above is full of current ati driver issues, isnt that what you wanted to know?
 
The Batman said:
You seem to be grasping for issues like a drowing man is grasphing for a lifepreserver. You conveniantly ignore the fact that while most people AREN'T experiencing this shimmering the ones that are have a found a workaround for it, namely by loweing the LOD.

Like I said son, the second I find you capable of entertaining rational thought is the day I start saving kittens from trees.
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The LOD fix messes up the textures so its not a good workaround. Of course I wouldn't expect a guy like you that wears nVidia panties and has nude posters of Derek Perez and Jen Hsung on his wall to admit it.
 
tranCendenZ said:
Did you actually want constructive feedback or people to just say all is rosy with ATI drivers?

anyway, this might help you find what you are looking for:
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33705231
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Nobody said the drivers are perfect. The fact that there is such a thread for ATi to see and address speaks volumes for support vs. nVidia that has no such thing (though it clearly needs it).
 
MFZ said:
Nobody said the drivers are perfect. The fact that there is such a thread for ATi to see and address speaks volumes for support vs. nVidia that has no such thing (though it clearly needs it).
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Let me guess, you're one of those people who commonly mistakes your average everyday random tree for Jesus. It's a freaking thread on a freaking fansite. How the hell could you give props to ANY company for that when they have nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:
 
The Batman said:
Let me guess, you're one of those people who commonly mistakes your average everyday random tree for Jesus. It's a freaking thread on a freaking fansite. How the hell could you give props to ANY company for that when they have nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:
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Your insults are as weak as your wit, try harder. CM checks the thread so yes it does serve a purpose.
 
MFZ said:
Your insults are as weak as your wit, try harder. CM checks the thread so yes it does serve a purpose.
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QFT
CM and sireric own period.
Openglguy at beyond3d is awesome also, it's fun when he corrects the resident nv !!!!!!s about drivers and radeon cards :D
 
MFZ said:
In fact, if this shimmering problem wasn't around, I can honestly say I'd have a 6800 U in my machine right now instead of my PE.
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What is "shimmering"? :)

joecuddles said:
Buy a 6800U : Chance of shimmering. It's different, and if it's a hardware issue I'd consider it null in terms of drivers.
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And how does it only relate to the 6800U, not the 6800GT, when the GPU of the two are identical?

Terra - Slighty confused :confused:
 
The ATI drivers have a texture flicker issue in Flight simulator 2004. Which I play a lot. If it weren't that I already had a watercooling block for it. And the nvidia watercooling block wasn't $100+ bucks. I'd go for the 6800U just over that issue.
 
rancor said:
Ok look ATi has there issues with Alpha objects since the 9800, at least nV thing is a bug. So don't go off on a crusade.
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Its not an "issue" but rather part of how their multi sampling AA works; the lack of SSAA is hardly the same thing as a driver/hardware flaw. What I'm mentioning is a real problem with 6800 cards filtering that has yet to be fixed and it breaks something that is supposed to be functioning. You can try to make as many excuses you want or try to divert from the issue by pointing at flaws with ATi but the problem will still be there. I'm just hoping this bug/flaw or whatever you want to call it gets a LOT of attention so that its fixed in time for the nv45--I plan to have an SLI rig and I'd hate for this problem to be obscured by !!!!!!s that claim it doesn't exist.
 
Dunno, but I've had more driver problems with my new Mobility Radeon 9600 Pro Turbo in a couple of days than I had with my NV28M (GF4 4200 Go) in 1.5 years. :(

At least it's faster... :mad:
 
MFZ said:
Its not an "issue" but rather part of how their multi sampling AA works; the lack of SSAA is hardly the same thing as a driver/hardware flaw. What I'm mentioning is a real problem with 6800 cards filtering that has yet to be fixed and it breaks something that is supposed to be functioning. You can try to make as many excuses you want or try to divert from the issue by pointing at flaws with ATi but the problem will still be there. I'm just hoping this bug/flaw or whatever you want to call it gets a LOT of attention so that its fixed in time for the nv45--I plan to have an SLI rig and I'd hate for this problem to be obscured by !!!!!!s that claim it doesn't exist.
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If you want to get alot of attention for it, email nvidia, because we can't do much here, Plus the new pain killer patch/demo don't seem to have it. Ut 2004 doesn't have it, ut 2003 did have it. So it could possible be something in the programming.
 
pxc said:
Dunno, but I've had more driver problems with my new Mobility Radeon 9600 Pro Turbo in a couple of days than I had with my NV28M (GF4 4200 Go) in 1.5 years. :(

At least it's faster... :mad:
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Also one of dev test systems has a 9600 very very bad particle effects due to the alpha blending bug,
 
rancor said:
If you want to get alot of attention for it, email nvidia, because we can't do much here, Plus the new pain killer patch/demo don't seem to have it. Ut 2004 doesn't have it, ut 2003 did have it. So it could possible be something in the programming.
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Got an email contact? I'll be glad to tell them, the sooner its fixed the better. BTW its good for people on forums to know about it because then you get a lot more people demanding a fix and it would likely get bumped up on their list of priorities.
 
rancor said:
Also one of dev test systems has a 9600 very very bad particle effects due to the alpha blending bug,
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I was kind of disappointed that virtually no one sells the FX 5750 go (at least none with a reasonable price) because that would have been my first choice.

But I can't really complain for the price. I've overclocked it and it plays Doom3 reasonably well at 1024x768 HQ and of course it plays other games much better. Not bad for a sub-$900 laptop. :D

One annoyance is the bad filtering (Cat4.9... hotfix won't install even after being patched). And yes, the filtering is terrible. ATI users should be the LAST to complain about the beta 66.xx NVIDIA filtering because moiré and shimmering is far more noticable on my 9600 than it is on my 6800GT.
 
pxc said:
I

One annoyance is the bad filtering (Cat4.9... hotfix won't install even after being patched). And yes, the filtering is terrible. ATI users should be the LAST to complain about the beta 66.xx NVIDIA filtering because moiré and shimmering is far more noticable on my 9600 than it is on my 6800GT.
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That I find that hard to believe. The 9600 uses the same filtering technique as the X800 cards and there is no noticeable shimmering or moire effects like you claim. BTW my wife's cousin has a sager laptop (heavy as hell) with a 9600 mobility and I've never seen the shimmering or moire that you're describing in games like UT2004, Painkiller, BF:V, BF1942/desert combat, RTCW, C&C Generals, WC3 FT, Lineage II, FFXI, Doom 3 etc. The guy is a gaming freak so he has loads of games on his laptop and that problems never been there like you claim. The only thing I can think of is what rancor mentioned, the lack of SSAA for alpha textures.
 
pxc said:
I was kind of disappointed that virtually no one sells the FX 5750 go (at least none with a reasonable price) because that would have been my first choice.

But I can't really complain for the price. I've overclocked it and it plays Doom3 reasonably well at 1024x768 HQ and of course it plays other games much better. Not bad for a sub-$900 laptop. :D

One annoyance is the bad filtering (Cat4.9... hotfix won't install even after being patched). And yes, the filtering is terrible. ATI users should be the LAST to complain about the beta 66.xx NVIDIA filtering because moiré and shimmering is far more noticable on my 9600 than it is on my 6800GT.
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LOL not bad at all for a inexpensive laptop :)

Very true both cards have their issues, its not like they are going to take a way from the gaming expereince. Annoyances yes, but thats all. I can't remember any video card that never had any issues. If you want to see really problems try the delta chrome series, my god they are absolute shit! I don't even think drivers can help them out with thier bugs :p
 
MFZ said:
That I find that hard to believe. The 9600 uses the same filtering technique as the X800 cards and there is no noticeable shimmering or moire effects like you claim.
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De Nile ain't just a river. :p

I've been playing games and running benchmarks on it for 2 days. Texture shimmer and moiré are there. It looks pretty bad.
 
rancor said:
LOL not bad at all for a inexpensive laptop :)

Very true both cards have their issues, its not like they are going to take a way from the gaming expereince. Annoyances yes, but thats all. I can't remember any video card that never had any issues. If you want to see really problems try the delta chrome series, my god they are absolute shit! I don't even think drivers can help them out with thier bugs :p
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I remember people hyping up the delta chrome as if it were going to own ATi and nVidia in the midrange and budget markets. Did you get (un)lucky with a free sample?
 
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