Modern VA vs old IPS panels

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Sitti_S, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Sitti_S

    Sitti_S n00b

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    I need to get a "temporary" monitor. I have been using old Dell 30" U3011 IPS monitor. It had been dying for a while. I managed to get it going by hitting its backside until I get a replacement monitor. Unfortunately a new mini-led monitor that I want to buy seems to be still months away. And U3011 just completely died today. It resulted me to use over a decade old 27" monitor. So I need to get myself some cheap and usable monitor in a mean time.

    I'm looking BenQ EW3270U VA monitor. Good price, 4K, freesync, and fake HDR. My only concern is VA panel. I have never used VA before. I understand VA provides good black and contrast, but weak in color and viewing angle. However, how does modern VA panel compare with old IPS panel? Can modern VA match the color and viewing angle of old IPS panel like the one in U3011? BTW, U3011 is not even LED, it's CCFL backlit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  2. VIC-20

    VIC-20 Gawd

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    VA panel in my Sony X900E TV is really amazing (which is my home PC monitor), but its a FALD. Better than the Apple LED Cinema display (IPS) on my office PC. My Sony X800 TV is also VA, but the blacks aren't as good. So it really depends on the VA panel. Viewing angel hasn't been an issue for me though, but I don't look at my monitors off angle anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  3. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    Dell U3011 had WCG-CCFL a wide gamut variety of CCFL lamp and which I would say have pretty awesome colors. I had Dell U2410 with the same lamp and I miss its presentation. RGB-LED monitors I used in its place have better colors abnd I like them even more but there was something in how these lamps produce image that was really mesmerizing. I actually plan on getting one (or bigger model) and only already having way more monitors than I could possibly use makes me hesitate to get another one ;)

    Whereas most VA panels use crappy W-LED, some which are not even 6500K but instead have pale blueish tint (most W-LEDs are terrible)

    Viewing angles of older IPS panels were pretty great if not better than most modern IPS implementations. At some point in time it seems manufacturers tweaked subpixel structure to prioritize contrast ratio over viewing angles. Most modern IPS monitors have more IPS glow and worse presentation when seen from large angle.

    VA panels use different pixel structure also and some are worse and some somewhat better. It is similar story with VA, they generally tweaked them for measured contrast ratio because numbers sell. Older S-MVA and S-PVA panels had much better viewing angles than most modern VA panels.

    I used S-PVA panel and it was ok-ish I guess though still had all issues with gamma shift. Then I used two 3000:1 VA panels and these had much better black but this black was much more annoying with more difference across the screen and between eyes. Keep in mind that each eye see monitor straight-on in different place on the monitor surface and this lead to effect where each eye perceives image with slightly different gamma. IPS glow in comparison look pretty much like slight glare and thus is much more natural and easy to ignore. My awareness was constantly brought to black and dark tones on VA panels and seeing place where nothing was drawn was irritating like hell for me. On IPS which have proper gamma everywhere there is proper immersion because things gently fade into black and it is easy to get used to even if contrast is much lower.

    People see world differently and notice and are bothered by different things so VA panel might as well be ok-ish for you but I doubt it you will be truly happy with VA coming from good IPS even if contrast will immediately look much better.
    It is imho my recommendation to get IPS panel, preferably with DCI-P3 color space and sRGB emulation which will give you the closest look to what you had + better contrast ratio of modern IPS.
     
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  4. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    You do not need to look at monitor off-angle for viewing angle issues to be visible, especially on VA (and TN)
     
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  5. Tup3x

    Tup3x [H]ard|Gawd

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    I personally haven't seen a single VA screen that I would use over IPS. To me it's closer to TN but somewhat better viewing angles and much slower response time.
     
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  6. VIC-20

    VIC-20 Gawd

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    Fair enough. I don't buy cheap displays, so I wouldn't know.
     
  7. Absalom

    Absalom Gawd

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    I concur. IPS used to be synonymous with superior image quality. In the early days, you only worried about dead pixels. It was literally fire and forget.

    Today it's a crapshoot what you'll end up getting quality-wise. You can't even rely on brand loyalty because there are different grades of IPS panels out there, and each manufacturer will have a broad spectrum of products using different versions of panels. There's absolutely no consistency to be found. You pretty much have to do your homework and then still pray you don't get a defective panel.

    I've effectively had to lower my IQ standards for the sake of newer features.

    I still have a functioning 20" NEC 20WMGX2 (IPS) from 2005, and while it doesn't have fancy 1ms response times, VRR, HDR, high refresh rate options, or is it very large, it beats the pants off my 2013 era Korean IPS panel and my modern 34" UW IPS in terms of image quality.

    And while IPS has gotten subjectively "worse" over time, I think the other panel options have simply gotten better. Depending on the modern TN or VA implementation, they have nudged themselves closer to IPS. Close enough that you can't simply rule them out on name alone.
     
  8. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Saw a phillips 40" 4k, I use typically LG IPS based wide-gamut panels (U2711 model down from yours) and a ZR30W currently (same panel as yours) and found the phillips to be actually surprisingly good for colour. Tech has come a long way since. VA has its downfalls compared to IPS but also a few advantages in other areas... either way you have to make a compromise.
    For me I'll stick to IPS unless microled is viable or OLED proves itself for monitor use..
     
  9. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Took three panels from dell to get a perfect U2711. They use the grade down from A, I think A- or B+ where dust or dirt is allowed between the layers (but no dead pixels). Apple uses grade A.
    NZ has good consumer laws. I bought it for mastering and video editing and when it has dust impeding the ability to do that accurately on light backgrounds, it's not fit for purpose.
     
  10. Tup3x

    Tup3x [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have 55" modern IPS Philips 4K TV and the quality is impressive. Even the blacks are great. I also love Philips' ambilight.
     
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  11. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    It's almost the opposite for me. Can't stand IPS on anything >=27" to the point I'd almost rather have a TN. I find VA superior, though it's really just slightly less shit among shitty options. IPS glow and abysmal blacks just kill it for me.
     
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  12. Tup3x

    Tup3x [H]ard|Gawd

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    In normal lighting conditions the real difference is not that big. VA panels tend to struggle with dark colours. Pure black looks good but other than that I have hard time finding positives. On my TV the glow is a non issue. Not too distracting on my dirt cheap Samsung PLS monitor - I keep my room well lit so that helps too. VA on large displays is meh since the limited viewing angle starts to cause issues. On TVs things look horrible if you are not sitting in front.
     
  13. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    I rather have non-optimal dark handling than have nothing dark as it's just a different shade of gray (or light gray-white off centre), though. And I also find IPS viewing angles more restrictive in real life usage than VA's due to its glow problems on larger screens.

    This is for monitors, I don't have experience with different panels on TVs as they are IMO equally unacceptable for that purpose.
     
  14. ors

    ors Limp Gawd

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    Color reproduction will probably be OK however off angle VA is worse for sure. What is the worst thing about VA is it has pixel transition extremes that are very annoying (mostly between dark and light colors). On 1 model this was so bad you also see it on text and pictures in the browser while scrolling, not to mention games, where even the fastest VAs struggle with artifacts due to this.
    Also all VA screens I tried had vertical bands (more or less visible, but none without) which you will pick up in games while panning while you look at walls/sky. Never had this on any IPS screen I owned, had it on all (5) VA screens I tried.
    Only plus points for VA are price and lack of IPS glow (which they replace with gamma shifting that I personally find less distracting in dark scenes).
     
  15. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    You must have really sensitive eyes
    Does this translate to better than normal vision (eg. in the dark) or does it only make you not being able to enjoy current image quality on LCD panels? I suspect the latter...

    This banding is exactly what I was refering to as overdrive artifacts.
    Two last VA panels I had were suffering from this. This did not only happen on sky but also on skin tones making me disable overdrive completely for normal usage. As you can imagine response was dog slow then. On c-PVA Samsung smudges spanned multiple frames (also with overdive) and while modern VA panels are better than this it is easy to realize it is not really fixed. When going from black to brighter tone brightness quickly rise to then very slowly settle on final color and that takes multiple frames.
     
  16. Commander Shepard

    Commander Shepard 2[H]4U

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    I was an IPS-only snob for years, but VA has come a long way. My monitor is a 43" Samsung QLED (VA) and TV is 55" Sony X950G (VA). I use/watch both directly in front of me, so viewing angles aren't an issue.
     
  17. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't think it's better vision, more like being more sensitive to contrast performance and its uniformity, both of which are main IPS drawbacks. VA's gamma shift I find less noticeable in daily usage, while IPS glow and poor blacks are almost always an issue. I grew up looking mostly at good quality CRT screens so LCD drawbacks in general are especially annoying. So much so I would rather go without a TV for a year and save for a smaller plasma OLED than be gifted a 75" top LCD. Well, I would take it and sell it, but you get the point :)

    I do strongly prefer minimal brightness in the dark, e.g. car dashboard or phone screen (which has to be pure black OLED for that reason), and hate light pollution in those scenarios, but I don't think that's related to above.

    P. S. I'm one of those whos OCD kicks in whenever I visit and see a TV on dynamic settings and start twitching in horror and reaching for the remote to fix the image :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  18. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm pretty satisfied with my Samsung CFG-73 24-inch model. Its SRGB mode is very accurate, and it was easily calibrated for 6500k. My only real complaint about it is that for a VA it's not very high in contrast (just about 2300:1) and its strobed backlight mode doesn't allow you to adjust the brightness. All you can do is adjust peak white, which again lowers contrast. But still, its contrast, even like this, is better than most IPS's. Its color shift is real, but isn't anywhere near TN, so I don't mind it as much.