Modding a Coppermine 667 to use 100 mhz FSB

[’m‚³‚ñ]

I have a mainboard based on the 440BX chipset (Tyan Tiger 100) so I can use some PIII coppermine 667's on it. I don't care if it only runs at 100 mhz, it's better than using two PII 350's. Is there a mod I can do to the CPU's themselves, or what? I just want the CPU's to default to 100 mhz FSB...

 

[Yiffy]

Slot1 or socket370 PIII's? If they're slot1 just plug them in, they'll only run at 500Mhz though. Obviously you'll need an adapter if they're socket370 but they'll behave the same. If you can run at 133FSB no problem then I don't see why not.

 

[8Complex]

Why not run them at 667? Just curious, I'm trying to do opposite 550 --> 733.

 

[chrisf6969]

you might be able to get it to run at 133, I remember an old Tyan Trinity 400 had FSB options for overclocking, just no voltage tweaking.

But you shouldnt need to raise the voltage since you're just trying to get it to run at the default CPU speed. However, I'm not sure about the PCI bus being overclocked.

I know I have an Abit BE6-II with the BX chipset and Abit enabled a /4 divider on the FSB(for the PCI bus) so it let me OC my 700e to 1050. However the AGP bus was way out of spec at 100Mhz (instead of 66)

My chip on BX board 700e (7x100) -- Oc'd 150x7 = 1050Mhz!

Mutliplier locked @ 5.... so 100x5 = 500Mhz or 133x5 = 667Mhz

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by Yiffy
Slot1 or socket370 PIII's? If they're slot1 just plug them in, they'll only run at 500Mhz though. Obviously you'll need an adapter if they're socket370 but they'll behave the same. If you can run at 133FSB no problem then I don't see why not.

When I put both on the board, it won't boot. When I put one on the board, it won't boot... When I put a 550 on the board and one 667, it won't boot... When I put one on the board, it won't boot... With a single 550, it boots... So far, all I can tell is doing this is the board. The onboard LED is yellow with both on, but green with one or the 550 and the 667 on it at the same time. On tyan's compatability chart, the 133 mhz FSB CPU's are listed as 'will not work'.

It's dual slot 1, otherwise I wouldn't have a problem.

BTW, the 100 mhz Coppermines up to 850 will work, but I don't know where to find those CPU's...

I'm gonna pop in a single slot board. I'm almost positive that both CPU's are just fine, as both just came out of their original boxes.

 

[ziddey]

what happens if you just put them in as is? chances are, itll work.

if not, see this pdf
http://www.intel.com/design/pentiumiii/datashts/24976503.pdf

youll want to search for BSEL
page24 has the bsel manipulation information

page57 has the pinout diagram

goodluck mate!

edit: ahh crap. just realised that that thing only lists 133fsb with the rest as reserved. hopefully, you can figure it out (i think it has another table somewhere else)

if not, seek one of the other pdfs

sorry for not providing more specific details

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by ziddey
what happens if you just put them in as is? chances are, itll work.

if not, see this pdf
http://www.intel.com/design/pentiumiii/datashts/24976503.pdf

youll want to search for BSEL
page24 has the bsel manipulation information

page57 has the pinout diagram

goodluck mate!

Thanks lots. Now I have to find Adobe and install it.

 

[ziddey]

heres a blowup shot of the pinout

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Well, the problem is, these two CPU's are slot1, not FC PGA 370. Otherwise, I would have already found myself a pinmap and modded them.

I'm still not sure why these damn CPU's won't just boot using a 100 mhz FSB. This board DOES supprot 133 mhz FSB, it has the option in the BIOS. I'm going to try flashing up to the newest BIOS revision and see if that works... Otherwise, I'll just mod the PSU and put two boards in one case and run a 550, 667, and get my third machine to run the second 667. The Mobile Duron I got won't boot in a normal board, either.

 

[chrisf6969]

they wont boot b/c they're different speeds.

If you have a P3 500e and P3 667 it would probably boot since both have a multiplier of 5. Or a P3 550e & a P3 733 (both have a 5.5 multiplier)

I've got an idea.... get rid of that old crap and get a new P4 with HT and it will blow away that old Sdram crap!!

 

[widefault]

While the board has a 133MHz bus option in the BIOS, it does NOT support that speed in any way. That's for overclocking only.[1] It's a BX chipset, and that's support for 66MHz or 100MHz chips. It isn't booting properly because those CPUs aren't signalling the proper bus speed. It doesn't know what to do with them. You have to mod the chips to make them signal 100MHz to the board, then they'll boot up at 500MHz. I know pin B21 needed to be covered to force 66MHz chips to 100MHz, so you'll be messing around in that area.

[1] And overclocking to 133MHz on that board isn't for the weak. With the bus at 133MHz, the PCI runs at 44MHz and AGP at 88MHz, so you'd need some damned strong and hearty peripherals. Most hard drives won't make it, most sound cards don't like it, although most video cards seem okay.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by widefault
While the board has a 133MHz bus option in the BIOS, it does NOT support that speed in any way. That's for overclocking only.[1] It's a BX chipset, and that's support for 66MHz or 100MHz chips. It isn't booting properly because those CPUs aren't signalling the proper bus speed. It doesn't know what to do with them. You have to mod the chips to make them signal 100MHz to the board, then they'll boot up at 500MHz. I know pin B21 needed to be covered to force 66MHz chips to 100MHz, so you'll be messing around in that area.

[1] And overclocking to 133MHz on that board isn't for the weak. With the bus at 133MHz, the PCI runs at 44MHz and AGP at 88MHz, so you'd need some damned strong and hearty peripherals. Most hard drives won't make it, most sound cards don't like it, although most video cards seem okay.

Okay, I get the signaling thing. I'm going to try the mod on the B21 pin. I actually saw a guide how to do so on Tom's Hardware. I'm going to try putting something non-conductive on that pin, hopefully somethign that won't scratch off when inserting the CPU.

Oddly, the BIOS hasn't reset. It's still set to 112 mhz as I had my 350's at 391 mhz. BTW, a PII 450 and a PIII 550 don't work well together.

So the 667 has a mult of 5... And a PIII 500 with a 100 mhz FSB has a mult of 5? Why don't I try a PIII 500? I don't know where to get one, but ti would be worth a shot.

What should I use as non-conductive on the B21 pin? I'm thinking possibly a little piece of tape or some Krazy glue.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Tried doing a pin mod, using a piece of tape to keep the B21 pin from connecting. No dice. Still nothing.

 

[widefault]

You probably have to cover b21(I've used a sliver of tape) and cover or connect whatever other pin signals 133. Intel has datasheets for the 100MHz and 133MHz chips, the only way to be sure is to compare those.

edit:// Since on the 133MHz chips both BSEL0(A14) and BSEL1(B21) are already not connected, I think what you need to do is connect A14 to ground. Do the research though, don't trust me. For all you know I've been eating paste for the last few hours.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by widefault
You probably have to cover b21(I've used a sliver of tape) and cover or connect whatever other pin signals 133. Intel has datasheets for the 100MHz and 133MHz chips, the only way to be sure is to compare those.

edit:// Since on the 133MHz chips both BSEL0(A14) and BSEL1(B21) are already not connected, I think what you need to do is connect A14 to ground. Do the research though, don't trust me. For all you know I've been eating paste for the last few hours.

lmao Okay, I'll look into A14. I think I'm goign to just give in and get a matching 550 (I need a 2v 550 for it to play nice with my current 550) and either sell or trade one of the 667's.

I wonder what it would take to get the A14 to ground...

 

[8Complex]

Just thought I'd add in case you didn't know... 2.0v chips seem to be Katmai's, whereas the 1.6-1.7's are Coppermine's.

Also, I saw that guide on Tom's... he said to cover A14 from connecting if you wanted a 100mhz processor to default to 133mhz, I believe. You're trying to go the other way around, so you'll have to find the connection higher up and make it happen.


Really though, if you want to pick up some matching processors, try putting a wanted ad in the for sale forum here. You see lots of pII's and pIII's come across the forums, and you can surely find someone parting out a dual system as well.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by 8Complex
Just thought I'd add in case you didn't know... 2.0v chips seem to be Katmai's, whereas the 1.6-1.7's are Coppermine's.

Also, I saw that guide on Tom's... he said to cover A14 from connecting if you wanted a 100mhz processor to default to 133mhz, I believe. You're trying to go the other way around, so you'll have to find the connection higher up and make it happen.


Really though, if you want to pick up some matching processors, try putting a wanted ad in the for sale forum here. You see lots of pII's and pIII's come across the forums, and you can surely find someone parting out a dual system as well.

lol Yeah, that's how I got the mainboard. Actually, it's kinda neat, I found a for sale ad from a guy who lives 15 minutes from my house, so we just did it that way.

I have two single slot PII/III mainboards, so I have homes for the two PIII 667's I've got. Perhaps I can trade a PIII 667 for a PIII 550 2.0v? I'll look into it.

Actually, on Toms Hardware, he says blocking teh B21 goes from 66 mhz fsb to 133 mhz fsb. So, yeah, using the info I have now, I have to connect the A14 to get it to send the correct code. I'm not sure how to do that without opening up the case, and on the coppermines, it's easier said than done. Plus, I have to put the right resistance on it, and that might be difficult as well.

Maybe it's time to do some house cleaning... I'm gonna try the 550 and 450 at the same time again. If it will boot into windows in safe mode, I should be able to get ASMP (Asymmetrical Simotaneous Multi Processing), although that might not be supported. 450 and 550 would be faster than dual 400 (PII 350's at 391 mhz).

I wish I could test this Mobile Duron. I wish it would just work...

 

[chrisf6969]

note I was saying to use.... a 500e (e = means coppermine based) that may be part of your problems too. Different sized & speed caches.

your 2v 550 has 512KB off die cache... that runs slow. 667 or 500e (any coppermine core) has 256KB on-die full speed cache. (runs at the speed of the processor)

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by chrisf6969
note I was saying to use.... a 500e (e = means coppermine based) that may be part of your problems too. Different sized & speed caches.

your 2v 550 has 512KB off die cache... that runs slow. 667 or 500e (any coppermine core) has 256KB on-die full speed cache. (runs at the speed of the processor)

I know that. Really, cache doesn't concern me that much. This isn't my main rig, so if the CPU's aren't perfectly matched, it won't bother me. I just want them to be running at the correct voltage and the same speed.

This mainboard does support Coppermine CPU's. Just not 133 FSB.

 

[chrisf6969]

Since you're hellbent on using that old board why dont you get 2 of these.... http://www.powerleap.com/PL-iP3T.html

1.4Ghz CPU's I think, they are supposed to have a dipswitch for dual CPU use also. (I THINK!) $120 each x 2 = $240

But Its really not worth it... considering you can buy a 2.4C and Abit IS-7 for
about $150 + 95 = $245 (that would get you at least 3Ghz with HT = far more powerfull than that box could ever imagine)

I have an old P2 350 & P2 450 want to buy them? $20 for both

 

[Yiffy]

Originally posted by chrisf6969
Since you're hellbent on using that old board why dont you get 2 of these.... http://www.powerleap.com/PL-iP3T.html

1.4Ghz CPU's I think, they are supposed to have a dipswitch for dual CPU use also. (I THINK!) $120 each x 2 = $240

Those would have to be PIII-S CPU's to work in SMP though.

 

[chrisf6969]

Are you sure? (I dont know if it works, b/c I've never played with dual CPUs!)

But I do have a 1.2Ghz in one of those powerleap adapters in an old Dell around the office. And I thought in the documentation it said you could use them in dual mobos.

I thought the dipswitch allowed you to... just like the dipswitchs can allow you to set voltage or FSB to other than spec.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by chrisf6969
Since you're hellbent on using that old board why dont you get 2 of these.... http://www.powerleap.com/PL-iP3T.html

1.4Ghz CPU's I think, they are supposed to have a dipswitch for dual CPU use also. (I THINK!) $120 each x 2 = $240

But Its really not worth it... considering you can buy a 2.4C and Abit IS-7 for
about $150 + 95 = $245 (that would get you at least 3Ghz with HT = far more powerfull than that box could ever imagine)

I have an old P2 350 & P2 450 want to buy them? $20 for both

Hehe... I'd love to put two of those Tuallies on this thing, but as this thread was created because a Coppermine with a 133 mhz FSB wouldn't work on it, a Tuallie would give it WAY more problems.

I have a trio of AMD systems, a Barton 2500+ at 2.3 ghz, a Palomino 1900+, and now a mobile 1 ghz Duron, so a brand new P4 would definatly be out of the question. I might retire the 1900+ and the 1 ghz Duron for a Dual Xeon system... I also have a Dell 1 ghz PIII and the dual board (not currently running).

 

[ziddey]

ahh sorry for not recognizing that you had slot1's. sorry for the lost time

thats strange how it wont work with the 133fsb. maybe its not able to supply the right voltage?? does it work with just 1 of the 667's? youd definitely want the cumine (katmais suck )

these two 667s are also known goods? does the board have voltage control?

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by ziddey
ahh sorry for not recognizing that you had slot1's. sorry for the lost time

thats strange how it wont work with the 133fsb. maybe its not able to supply the right voltage?? does it work with just 1 of the 667's? youd definitely want the cumine (katmais suck )

these two 667s are also known goods? does the board have voltage control?

I tested both of these 667's in a different slot 1 mainboard that claims it doesn't support 133 fsb either, but they worked just fine (much different chipset, not a 440). The board has run a Katmai PIII 550 which is a 550/512/100/2.0v chip. It does have voltage control, down to the 667's 667/256/133/1.65v. I also have a PIII coppermine FC PGA cpu, and I can borrow a slot -> socket converter. I'll test it out with that, and see what I can get.

With 1 667 on the Tyan mainboard, I get no boot situations. With both, I get no boot. With a Coppermine and a Katmai, no boot. I have a new BIOS to flash to the board, I'm going to give that a shot. It might enable me to at least boot...

 

[chrisf6969]

Originally posted by ’m‚³‚ñ
Hehe... I'd love to put two of those Tuallies on this thing, but as this thread was created because a Coppermine with a 133 mhz FSB wouldn't work on it, a Tuallie would give it WAY more problems.

I have a trio of AMD systems, a Barton 2500+ at 2.3 ghz, a Palomino 1900+, and now a mobile 1 ghz Duron, so a brand new P4 would definatly be out of the question. I might retire the 1900+ and the 1 ghz Duron for a Dual Xeon system... I also have a Dell 1 ghz PIII and the dual board (not currently running).

But the Tualatin Powerleap adapters enable it to run on other BX boards. And they're only at 100FSB which I believe is the main problem. They work on almost all old BX boards.

 

[E4g1e]

Actually, most dual-processor motherboards have only one single voltage regulator. So, even if both the Katmai and the Coppermine CPUs use the same multiplier and the same FSB speed, using a 2.0V Katmai PIII processor with a 1.65V Coppermine PIII processor on the same dual-CPU motherboard won't work at all. Simple as that. Furthermore, most dual-CPU motherboards with a BX chipset have no provision at all whatsoever to adjust the core voltages - they set that voltage only to stock voltage, and nothing else. Thus, if you use a Katmai with a Coppermine, the voltage regulator gets confused as to which voltage to use - the lowest voltage that the Katmai requires just to operate is high enough to burn out a Coppermine processor, and the highest voltage that the Coppermine can withstand is still too low for a Katmai to even run.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by chrisf6969
But the Tualatin Powerleap adapters enable it to run on other BX boards. And they're only at 100FSB which I believe is the main problem. They work on almost all old BX boards.

...

Whoa... I didn't see that. Thanks for telling me that... I'll actually look into those then... Lets see... I would have a 3400+ (Barton at 2.3 ghz), a 1900+, a 1.2 ghz Duron, a 1 ghz PIII, and a dual 1.4 ghz PIII... That sounds good. Lots of F@H...