MOD is microsoft trying to make people hate the desktop with win9?

A

AndreRio

[H]ard|Gawd
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Nov 23, 2011
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is ms trying to sabotage win9 desktop interface, so people will hate the desktop. so people will some how accept the metro ui in the future (with win10)?
because win9 desktop ui looks terrible imo.
 
Yes. That is exactly what they are doing. You just uncovered the biggest conspiracy theory since the Kennedy assassination. Well done. :rolleyes:

If anything, I think they made people hate Metro and not the desktop.
 
I think MS is trying to stretch out the current strategy of tablet/desktop convergence, not trying to intentionally sabotage Windows. We're on the cusp of competitively small tablets capable of running full Windows really well (Broadwell Y at the higher end and Airmont based Cherry Trail at the lower end). The payoff in the consumer segment at least is worthy of a gamble, if only to stem the further displacement of traditional PCs (desktops, laptops) by mobile OSs in that segment.

Most consumers who buy new PCs at least tolerate Metro-ized Windows, and many even like it. That a (pretty small at less than 20%) segment of the PC market which is relatively successful with Windows 8 isn't the problem. It's the rest of the Windows market that is rejecting the direction MS is taking Windows, and Windows 7 will likely become the next XP in its longevity. It's not primarily about start buttons, or start menus; what MS is doing to Windows beyond that which is the problem which annoys the hell out of productivity users.

Whatever MS does to Windows isn't going to matter to many consumers. As long as it runs Windows applications and has the benefits of near ubiquitous support of hardware and software, it is an acceptable platform. For others, alternatives start looking more and more attractive as MS gives up on the productivity desktop.
 
pxc said:
For others, alternatives start looking more and more attractive as MS gives up on the productivity desktop.
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That doesn't make any sense. Pretty much all of the changes that are in these leaks are for the sole purpose of making the desktop environment more palatable to traditional Windows desktops users and the inclusion of virtual desktops in the box is all about enhancing the desktop.

Functionally there's a lot of choice in how one can setup the Windows UI and applications. Start Menu, with the OPTION of adding tiles or the option to use the Start Screen. This is more choice than 7 or 8 that allows for a lot of flexibility. And this is can be very useful for businesses wanting to deploy tablets. It's the same OS that's simply configured differently for desktops than it is for tablets. And investments in tablet software can easily be deployed to desktops if there's a need to ever access those apps on a laptop of desktop.
 
I've said this a few times but keep in mind that a lot changed between Windows 8 developer preview and the actual release. I'm sure that a lot of the desktop/start menu stuff will be buttoned up before release of Win 9.

One thing that I don't like that I know won't change is how it seems most of the Windows native apps have been replaced by Metro variants and that even Control Panel is likely now gone and replaced by the horrible PC Settings window.
 
bigdogchris said:
One thing that I don't like that I know won't change is how it seems most of the Windows native apps have been replaced by Metro variants and that even Control Panel is likely now gone and replaced by the horrible PC Settings window.
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Not sure where you're getting that desktop apps have been replaced by modern apps. At least in Windows 8.1 all of the desktop apps are still there, with the exception of the games. It will be interesting to see how they will work out the issues with Control Panel and PC Settings. Having the two separated does make some sense as the Control Panel isn't really touch friendly and PC Settings is.
 
wonderfield said:
It really doesn't. The presence of the two is just a stopgap measure until they can correctly unify system configuration options.
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I think you have to have one for the desktop and one for tablets for the obvious UI differences. And I don't think that all of the options in one necessarily make sense in the other. You probably don't need access to the firewall from a tablet UI. And options that are solely touch and tablet specific may not make sense from a desktop Control Panel. However they go about it, I don't see how one Control Panel system works well in both cases. However, I might make sense to have options to everything in the desktop version so what there's no need to go to the modern version for everything.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think you have to have one for the desktop and one for tablets for the obvious UI differences. And I don't think that all of the options in one necessarily make sense in the other. You probably don't need access to the firewall from a tablet UI. And options that are solely touch and tablet specific may not make sense from a desktop Control Panel. However they go about it, I don't see how one Control Panel system works well in both cases. However, I might make sense to have options to everything in the desktop version so what there's no need to go to the modern version for everything.
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Works for probably everyone that visits [H]. Computer illiterate users/grandparents/new users, etc. will have issues with two places for a similar thing. They use what's there, not what's appropriate. There are many, many times when I have to show users the correct app or way to do things. They just used what was there and easy to find rather than the right tool for the job.

PC Settings and Control Panel will both be there. But, some users will see them as two different places what should be one. We know the difference, but some don't. That's what caused a lot of confusion with Windows 8. That's where it got the multiple personality reputation. Not from the tech proficient users. But, from the normal people that use computers for the basics....
 
heatlesssun said:
You probably don't need access to the firewall from a tablet UI.
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You probably don't need many of the options in many contexts. A typical desktop user, for instance, will never need to configure the firewall. That does not mean system options should be split between two UIs. The argument here essentially boils down to "it's not a big deal", which is to say that it's sweeping problems under the rug.

heatlesssun said:
However they go about it, I don't see how one Control Panel system works well in both cases.
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A competent UX designer can devise a workable approach. Microsoft's obstacle is time (it would take a long time to fully transition), not competence.
 
wonderfield said:
You probably don't need many of the options in many contexts. A typical desktop user, for instance, will never need to configure the firewall. That does not mean system options should be split between two UIs. The argument here essentially boils down to "it's not a big deal", which is to say that it's sweeping problems under the rug.


A competent UX designer can devise a workable approach. Microsoft's obstacle is time (it would take a long time to fully transition), not competence.
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But isn't this exactly the same issue that the Start Screen faced? One UI for the start system obviously hasn't worked out like Microsoft would have hoped, thus we are now looking at two different start UIs, which is what many were asking for from the beginning.

One thing to note, many of the options in the desktop CP are links to other desktop dialogs and often those links are to 3rd party desktop utilities. That simply doesn't work for tablet users. I just don't see how there can be only one Control Panel.
 
Andre Rio works for the CIA FBI KGB and NRA also rumored to work for the NWBA on par with the PGA.
 
It is perfectly possible to have 2 different views of all settings in the system, one view can be for desktop users, and the other for tablet, with a larger touch based interface. The settings can be further hidden/shown based on basic/advanced view.

The problem comes when certain settings are only in Metro and others only in legacy cpl, with no clear reason why. e.g. the file picker is in Metro, power saving options are in both etc.
 
MrCrispy said:
It is perfectly possible to have 2 different views of all settings in the system, one view can be for desktop users, and the other for tablet, with a larger touch based interface. The settings can be further hidden/shown based on basic/advanced view.

The problem comes when certain settings are only in Metro and others only in legacy cpl, with no clear reason why. e.g. the file picker is in Metro, power saving options are in both etc.
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So much this. The main desktop control panel should have all options in it, you shouldn't have to be thrown into the Metro menu for things like changing users and user passwords, bluetooth, etc. Sure, the Metro menu can be a cut down version of the main control panel, but options shouldn't be cut out of the main control panel.
 
Tsumi said:
So much this. The main desktop control panel should have all options in it, you shouldn't have to be thrown into the Metro menu for things like changing users and user passwords, bluetooth, etc. Sure, the Metro menu can be a cut down version of the main control panel, but options shouldn't be cut out of the main control panel.
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I essentially agree as well. But even now with 8.x there's no need to use PC Settings pretty much anything not associated with the modern UI and apps on a desktop, users and passwords even Bluetooth. For some bizarre reason, the Bluetooth tray icon now takes you to PC Settings though one can still add Bluetooth devices through the desktop Devices and Printers Control Panel applet. It's crazy little details that were a lot of Windows 8's problems. All the tray icon needed to do was what it always did as you'd never use the tray icon to bring up Bluetooth anyway.

But then there are the tablet and touch and modern app settings and those things would annoy some people and they'd complain about why this stuff is showing up on their desktops and laptops without touch when they are using modern apps, though that's probably a complaint Microsoft could and should live with.

I think they way it should work is two Control Panels. The classic old Control Panel with virtually all of the settings that should never take one into a modern app. Then there's Tablet or Touch Control Panel. There's some evidence of something like that in these leaks, with something in a registry setting called "EdgeCP". In this "Edge" Control Panel, there'd be a subset of the settings with a modern UI that would never take one to a desktop app screen. And I could see perhaps a few of the settings only being there. Like Picture password, something that's pretty much only about tablets and touch.

But the idea, no matter how clean it is, would make a clear distinction between doing things via a traditional desktop UI and doing it in a modern app. It's not the duplication that's the big problem, but overlap.
 
I loved xp, hate vista, love 7, hate 8, a 7 style desktop is needed on pcs i think, i dont much care for tablets as they are too big and sliding around touching the screen everywhere is cumbersome and hard to type on but I have a samsung galaxy note 3 phone that I use a lot for everything but my thumb gets sore from sliding around the screen all day but its about the perfect size to be usable quickly and i can enter txt really fast with swype but i likes my mouse and keyboard best, lol! Granted i havent used windows 8 much, but its hard to find the stuff im looking for cause its totally different, and i hate change. ha!
 
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