Mid-range agp cards?

P

Phate

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Aug 6, 2006
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Hello people :)
I found this forum when I googled "video card forum" during my quest for a new video card. For the past couple weeks I have been looking at reviews, reading forums, and checking prices, and I find I am stuck and need some help :( I have read some threads here on a similar topic, but they haven't helped me, as they seem to go one way, then another. Hopefully this thread will be better.

I have an older computer, a hp a230n, with a 2800+, and a bfg 6200 OC, and 1 gig of ram...and an AGP mobo. I'm planning on getting a new computer next summer some time, and I'm hoping that if I throw ~$150(Canadian) at my computer it will last till then.

I've been looking at the radeon x1600 pro although I've almost ruled it out.(but love that hsf)
Also been looking at the GeForce 7600gs which is a little more than I wanted to spend, but if it's much better I could go for it.
Also there is the radeon x850 pro which is usually out of my range, although here it is well within(but sold out) it also looks like the best card of the 3. If I go for it I'd have to see if a guy I know would order it for me from the us, as it seems to be in stock there(wtf?).

So basically my question is this... what is a good AGP card for $150 CAD? And please, if you don't know anything, and are just acting on !!!!!! urges, please don't post :(

Thanks for any help :)

edit: Oh, also I've got a 17" CRT, though I'm looking for a widescreen lcd if that matters at all thanks
 
I would say look for the 120$ x800xls I've been hearing about or go with the x850pro
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I did see the ati sale, as I linked to one of thoes products(although it seems to be no longer there). So you figure the x800xl? Ok, awesome :) .

But now I have another question. You see I have a crappy power supply, it's hp, and I think the wattage is 250w. This is what the sticker on the side says: here . I currently have 2hdd, cd drive, dc/dvd combo.... and according to this site I'm already up to 263W, and with a x800xl, I'll be at 278W. Is this bad? Can I use this card?
Also, as far as I can see I only have these power cables left. So I think I need a y cable or something? And if I do get one where should I branch? The hdds? The cd drives? or where? Or do I just need a new power supply?

And if I do need one, how do I tell if it will be compatible with my hp mobo? (A7N8X-LA)


Sorry for all the noob questions, but I haven't dealt with PSUs before :(

Thanks again. :D
 
I would say it's about time for a new PSU as well and for the video card I would get the 7600 gs. I hear they overclock like mad.

The one thing thats seems to be over looked it just how important the PSU. You can never go wrong with a good PSU in your rig. I would look for one that has 500 watts or better and for me thats on the low end of watts. Over kill is always better then under kill
 
Phate said:
Thanks for the replies guys, I did see the ati sale, as I linked to one of thoes products(although it seems to be no longer there). So you figure the x800xl? Ok, awesome :) .

But now I have another question. You see I have a crappy power supply, it's hp, and I think the wattage is 250w. This is what the sticker on the side says: here . I currently have 2hdd, cd drive, dc/dvd combo.... and according to this site I'm already up to 263W, and with a x800xl, I'll be at 278W. Is this bad? Can I use this card?
Also, as far as I can see I only have these power cables left. So I think I need a y cable or something? And if I do get one where should I branch? The hdds? The cd drives? or where? Or do I just need a new power supply?

And if I do need one, how do I tell if it will be compatible with my hp mobo? (A7N8X-LA)


Sorry for all the noob questions, but I haven't dealt with PSUs before :(

Thanks again. :D
Click to expand...
Couple thoughts.
1] That site you linked for the wattage estimate is not highly regarded here at [H] because it does not really break down how that wattage is divided amongst your 3.3v, 5v and 12v lines. Also as you said, according to it you have 263w already on your 250w PSU.
2] That PSU you got now in your HP is minimal and if as you say you want to use this puter another year and want to make the video card upgrade I'd definitely upgrade your PSU.
3] If your current PSU is ATX and your current mobo is ATX then replacing your current PSU with another ATX PSU will be fine.
4] I know you're in Canada so this is a little hit and miss. A number of quality PSU's that would be more than adequate for you can be had for less than $50USD. Forton [FSP]makes great models for less than $40 even. This would also keep your total upgrade cost down and near to your target you mentioned in the OP.
 
Just to let you know, with a previous system i had, the psu went out and i needed another one. I snagged a 230w psu out of a compaq amd k6 system. I thought it would be temporary, but ended up leaving it like that because it worked.

The system was:
Athlon XP 2800+ w/ stock cooler
x800xt AIW agp
1dvd burner
1dvd drive
1 40gb hdd
1 120gb hdd
6 80mm case fans

MH
 
Cool, thanks for the replies guys!
@rcf1987, I suppose that could work, but I'd probably be better off getting a new psu.
@lone136, I agree that overkill is better than underkill, but I got this pc 3 years ago, and at the time I knew even less about pcs than I do now. As for overclocking, I'm not sure I want to, as my cpu already is at 60c-70c, and any more heat in my case could be bad. I've already got 3 votes for the x800xl, so I'll probably stick with it unless theres a really good reason not to.(unless I can't get my hands on the x800xl, then maybe I'll go with it.)

@GonzoP, yes I should upgrade my psu, but how do I tell if it is ATX? Or is that what the sticker means "ATX-250-12Z D"? My friend has a PSU he could give me, I think it's 350W, so to see if it's compatible should I just look at the sticker and look for ATX?

Thanks for the help so far guys :D

edit:mad: MikeHunt988, ah you got in while I was writing. Your system looks similar to mine actually, which is further proof that wattage isn't everything :) , but my psu came with a prebuilt, so theres no telling what the quality is. Oh, but after reading again I see so did yours... So maybe I'll just get the card, and then see if my psu can handle it, and go from there.
 
Yeah you got an ATX PSU no worries there according to the pic you linked.

Sure you could try running it off your existing PSU and if its a no-go then try your friends 350w. The number you want to increase is the 14A your current PSU has on the 12v. Hopefully your friends 350w is at least 18A+
 
Your in the same boat as me

I googled exactly "video card forum" and this was the first thing :p

I'm stuck between:

XFX Geforce 7600GS
ATI x800xl
ATI x800xt

what ya'll think?

For $199 CAD the x800xt perfectly fits my budget.
 
Well the x800xt beats the xl. I had both and like the xt alot more. Im not sure of the 7600gs vs the x800xt, but either way, they are both good cards.

MH
 
MikeHunt988 said:
Well the x800xt beats the xl. I had both and like the xt alot more. Im not sure of the 7600gs vs the x800xt, but either way, they are both good cards.

MH
Click to expand...


Thanks man.

Now I'm down to 7600GS and x800xt, both or which will cost me about $200 CAD
 
Hi imz, thats kinda creepy actually :p

Is the xt a lot better than the xl? Like $60 better? Also, I heard that the All-In-Wonder cards were slower, or is that pure crap?

@GonzoP, ya, thats probably the way to go, now how to get around the no stock... :(
 
Phate said:
Hi imz, thats kinda creepy actually :p

Is the xt a lot better than the xl? Like $60 better? Also, I heard that the All-In-Wonder cards were slower, or is that pure crap?

@GonzoP, ya, thats probably the way to go, now how to get around the no stock... :(
Click to expand...
Just gotta be patient I suppose; if they don't have them in, they don't have them in.
As to whether its $60 better I'd say no from a frame per dollar point of view. Without question its a faster but in terms of value 1/3 more money is not 1/3 more fps'
 
so you think overall the x800xl is a better value?

and how much better is the x800xl than the 7600GS, I posted on the Nvidia board, and many other boards and I got so many varied replies :(

Some saying that the x800xl is much more powerfull, some saying that its 2x the card the 7600GS is, others saying its marginal and why would you want old tech - 7600GS is better, etc, etc, etc...

Please let me know how much better the x800xl is than the 7600GS, what I got so far is that x800xl has SM 2.0 (since it's an older card) whereas the 7600GS (which came out like a month ago) has SM 3.0, which basically means that the 7600GS will give better image quality and such, but apparently the x800xl has better performance..
 
imz said:
so you think overall the x800xl is a better value?

and how much better is the x800xl than the 7600GS, I posted on the Nvidia board, and many other boards and I got so many varied replies :(

Some saying that the x800xl is much more powerfull, some saying that its 2x the card the 7600GS is, others saying its marginal and why would you want old tech - 7600GS is better, etc, etc, etc...

Please let me know how much better the x800xl is than the 7600GS, what I got so far is that x800xl has SM 2.0 (since it's an older card) whereas the 7600GS (which came out like a month ago) has SM 3.0, which basically means that the 7600GS will give better image quality and such, but apparently the x800xl has better performance..
Click to expand...
To an extent everything you've been told is true to some degree.
According to the raw power data here the x800xl has more gusto. Shader operations, pixel fill rate and texture fill rate are all in favor of the x800xl and by quite a margin. Now the x800xl is older tech and not as efficient with its operations as the more refined 7600gs so the gap in performance is not going to be as large as the margins are in terms of the raw numbers.
As far as SM 2.0 vs 3.0 that's really not as big of a deal of some people make it out to be. First off you need to be playing a game which can take advantage of SM 3.0 to begin with. Even then the performance margins at the very most are usually only several frames. The IQ is a debateable subject for sure though; and no one will argue sm2.0 looks better.

So to your question of how much better the x800xl is than a 7600gs? The best answer is it really depends on what yardstick you're using to measure with. Q4 vs 3dMark vs FEAR vs HL2 vs Far Cry the margins are going to vary considerably depending on resolution and AA and AF usage as well. Overall though you're going to find the x800xl is going to come out on top in actual gameplay almost always, at almost every resolution and degree of AA and AF. Giving you a specific and tangible number however is far to unrealistic and potentially misleading.

Hope that helps.
 
GonzoP said:
To an extent everything you've been told is true to some degree.
According to the raw power data here the x800xl has more gusto. Shader operations, pixel fill rate and texture fill rate are all in favor of the x800xl and by quite a margin. Now the x800xl is older tech and not as efficient with its operations as the more refined 7600gs so the gap in performance is not going to be as large as the margins are in terms of the raw numbers.
As far as SM 2.0 vs 3.0 that's really not as big of a deal of some people make it out to be. First off you need to be playing a game which can take advantage of SM 3.0 to begin with. Even then the performance margins at the very most are usually only several frames. The IQ is a debateable subject for sure though; and no one will argue sm2.0 looks better.

So to your question of how much better the x800xl is than a 7600gs? The best answer is it really depends on what yardstick you're using to measure with. Q4 vs 3dMark vs FEAR vs HL2 vs Far Cry the margins are going to vary considerably depending on resolution and AA and AF usage as well. Overall though you're going to find the x800xl is going to come out on top in actual gameplay almost always, at almost every resolution and degree of AA and AF. Giving you a specific and tangible number however is far to unrealistic and potentially misleading.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot ;)

Looks like I'll wait and see if some x800xl's come into stock..I'll google some reviews and see the FPS differences of games b/w the 7600GS and x800xl

If you know of a x800xl with performance results from Quake 4, FEAR, Oblivion, Far Cry, please be so kind as to link it.

I've found this nice XFX 7600GS review:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_7600_gs_comparison/page7.asp
 
Okay so I'm mad tired and falling asleep but I gathered the energy to find this baby:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=312&model2=290&chart=95

By using that

and this:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_7600_gs_comparison/page9.asp


I've determined that 7600GS performs better with F.E.A.R than the x800xl, but the x800xl runs Quake 4 better, which is kind of wierd because I've always thought Nvidia cards loved the Doom3 engine.

I'm really considering just getting the 7600GS, seeing as how the x800xl isn't even in stock..and how I don't play games with AF or AA on right now..

Also..one question, the x800xl doesn't have HDR does it?

I know the 7600GS does.


EDIT: wow...how totally freaky..GonzoP I didn't even know you linked that, I found it off some other board..thanks tho! :D
 
I'm not sure how you arrived at that determination as in the link you provided the x800xl actually outbenched the 7800gt :confused:
And no there's no hdr on the x800xl. But the hit you'd see using it on a 7600gs doesn't really make it useable on that card either
 
This is a nice thread on 7600gs vs x850pro [which we all know is the virtual equal of the x800xl] in it there's some good info on just how dramatic the hit is with HDR on the 7600gs
 
Wow, thanks a lot GonzoP for helping out us Canadians, I guess we'll be waiting for the xl to come in stock. Although if it doesn't I'll probably spring for a xt. Thanks a lot either way man :D
 
The x800xl's are in stock here for $119 USD...
http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2984012

I used this 5% off code- 1439 -not sure if it still works... and I got free shipping, not sure if that's good anymore either.

I got the x800xl refurb linked above for $113 shipped 3 weeks ago, and it works great! almost 2x as fast as my 9800 pro it replaced. Best bang for the buck as far as AGP cards.
 
Thanks a lot guys,

so in a nutshell, for $200 CAD, the best card out there right now is the x800xl right.

7600GS is newer technology, has SM3.0 and all but x800xl performs better in most games.

Are there any cases you guys know of where the 7600GS outperformed the x800xl..?

Though it might seem wierd to you guys, I prefer my cards green, but I guess trying red won't hurt, hopefully the card will kick butt and totally change my opinion :D
 
Also..one more thing..how well does the x800xl perform with Prey?

I have the game, just havn't even bothered installing it because I tried the Demo on my FX5500 and it can barely handle it. I was looking through the readme and found this:

1.2 RECOMMENDED SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:

Intel Pentium 4 2.5Ghz or AMD Athlon XP 2500+ processor or higher
1GB System RAM
ATI Radeon X800 series
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi series sound card
Broadband internet connection or LAN required for multiplayer


That makes me really happy :), but can someone let me know how well it performs actually? FPS wise?
 
@zapp, code 1439 said it had to be over $149, but code 1010 I got on another site is worth $6.95 off :D
I know they're in stock on your side of the border, but as soon as you click the "Canadian shoppers click here" button it's magically out of stock :confused:
 
I know, can't believe they dont have any at the Canadian warehouses :(

You guys have any idea as to how often they get shipments and so forth?

I havn't bought a video card online before or from ATI for that matter..

Hopefully it won't be long until they get one, add yourself to the mailing list! They said they'll email you when they get em in stock :D
 
imz said:
Also..one more thing..how well does the x800xl perform with Prey?

I have the game, just havn't even bothered installing it because I tried the Demo on my FX5500 and it can barely handle it. I was looking through the readme and found this:

1.2 RECOMMENDED SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:

Intel Pentium 4 2.5Ghz or AMD Athlon XP 2500+ processor or higher
1GB System RAM
ATI Radeon X800 series
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi series sound card
Broadband internet connection or LAN required for multiplayer


That makes me really happy :), but can someone let me know how well it performs actually? FPS wise?
Click to expand...
I have an A64 3000+, 1GB DDR 400, and a x800xl. It plays Prey great, though I game at 1280x1024.
 
OKANG said:
I have an A64 3000+, 1GB DDR 400, and a x800xl. It plays Prey great, though I game at 1280x1024.
Click to expand...

1280x1024 is a very good resolution, I turned every piece of eye candy possible off, and turned the resolution to 640x480 and still barely got 10 fps probably

Good to hear this card can run it :D
 
imz said:
Thanks a lot guys,

so in a nutshell, for $200 CAD, the best card out there right now is the x800xl right.

7600GS is newer technology, has SM3.0 and all but x800xl performs better in most games.

Are there any cases you guys know of where the 7600GS outperformed the x800xl..?

Though it might seem wierd to you guys, I prefer my cards green, but I guess trying red won't hurt, hopefully the card will kick butt and totally change my opinion :D
Click to expand...
I've been green for four years myself but certainly for budget agp'ers red is almost the only way to go these days
 
imz said:
Also..one more thing..how well does the x800xl perform with Prey?

I have the game, just havn't even bothered installing it because I tried the Demo on my FX5500 and it can barely handle it. I was looking through the readme and found this:

1.2 RECOMMENDED SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS:

Intel Pentium 4 2.5Ghz or AMD Athlon XP 2500+ processor or higher
1GB System RAM
ATI Radeon X800 series
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi series sound card
Broadband internet connection or LAN required for multiplayer


That makes me really happy :), but can someone let me know how well it performs actually? FPS wise?
Click to expand...
I'd DL'd the demo and with my Ti 4200 I played it just fine at 1024x768. Now when I say just fine I do mean medium detail levels and of course no AA or AF. I up the specs to 1280 on high details and yeah it was a single digit fraps slide show. Certainly an x800xl will give you moderate framerates. You won't see 60fps' at 1280 though more like 40ish if I remember what others have said correctly.
 
Thanks for this post. I have been debating on an agp card for a while, but I decided to finally pull the trigger. I grabbed 1 of the refurbed x800xl's from ATI for 113.05 (US$) to the door (thanks for the code zapp!)

Hopefully I'll see some improvement from a 9600xt to this....
 
Did anyone mention NewEgg?

You could go for an X850XT for $90 after $30 MIR but of course you are talking AGP still.

X850XT

Or you could go for an X800XT All-in-Wonder for $179

X800XT AIW

Or you could get an X800GTO for $130 and try unlocking the pipes which many have been successful in doing and if you don't then you still save some cash and have a decent GPU

X800GTO
 
I have an X850pro VIVO and if you unlock the extra pipes and overclock (like I did) you will save a LOT of money! pretty much the best AGP ATI card is the X850XT PE. and thats what I'm running now. I saw a 20% increase in just unlocking the pipes. heres my setup.

abit ic7-g max2
intel 2.8c
2gb Corsair twinx (2x1gb)
ATI X850pro -> unlocked to 16 pipes and oc'd to 520, 560. (not quite XTPE but im still running stock cooling, it can get there just didn't want to chance it)

went from 80fps in CS:S
with everything maxed+HDR at 1440x900 to 105fps cpu limited.(about a 20% increase)
X3 reunion was at 22.3fps all options to 36fps(over a 50% increase!)
prey runs with all options maxed without a hitch...really smooth but I don't have frames for it.

all these were gotten JUST unlocking the pipes. I have a cd-ISO image you can boot off of and it takes about 3 seconds.

EDIT: these are with 6.7 CATS with CCC
just tested prey and its running at 50fps all options maxed
 
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