Microstutter

Because most reviewers are only looking at the framerate while others are only looking at highest playability.
 
Because with MOST reviewers using planned videos, timedemos, or benchmark software, there is usually absolutely 0 practical usage reviews. This alone is why I stopped looking at benchmarks. I don't give a shit if the game does 60 FPS running the Ranch Small benchmark 3 times, I care about how playable it is when I'm PLAYING THE GAME.

You have to look around for reviews that specifically mention PLAYING a level of a game until you get your reliable review.
 
To be honest the term was widely used to downplay the release of the HD 4870 X2, which is a dual GPU solution to compete against the GTX 280. In the end the HD 4870 X2 proves itself that it is a superior card both in term of framerate and playability in most games. Hard didn't talk about it because they don't aim for a specific fps while benchmarking the cards, they aim for playability.
 
The 4870X2 romples the GTX 280 for the most part, but I wouldn't necessarily say that they compete directly. Perhaps the Tri-SLI and Quad Crossfire compete more directly.
 
alg7_munif said:
To be honest the term was widely used to downplay the release of the HD 4870 X2, which is a dual GPU solution to compete against the GTX 280. In the end the HD 4870 X2 proves itself that it is a superior card both in term of framerate and playability in most games. Hard didn't talk about it because they don't aim for a specific fps while benchmarking the cards, they aim for playability.
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I don't think so. The micro-stuttering "phenomenon" came into existence and was talked about long before the 4870 X2's release.
 
RamonGTP said:
I don't think so. The micro-stuttering "phenomenon" came into existence and was talked about long before the 4870 X2's release.
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I agree the "phenomenon" came into existence and was talked about long before the 4870 X2's release but it was widely used when the X2 was released.
 
I remember (rightly or wrongly, feel free to correct me) that microstuttering was first noticed when running 9800GX2 in QuadSLI, because you had a tremendous amount of GPU power (for its time) using only 512MB of texture RAM.
 
alg7_munif said:
I agree the "phenomenon" came into existence and was talked about long before the 4870 X2's release but it was widely used when the X2 was released.
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You had it partly correct. The micro stuttering was talked about so much during the 4870X2's release because people who had the card before it was released, claimed it FIXED micro stuttering, and it got everyone clambering.

Of course it didn't, but that is another discussion.
 
I have yet to see someone with the X2 claiming that he is experiencing this so called "microstuttering".
 
i don't notice it at all with the current x2. the previous x2-and gx2 for that matter-was a different story. a website dedicated to highest playable settings would simply reduce features until the game became playable, thus relegating micro-stuttering to any other phenomena that hindered smooth performance.
 
Microstutter exists. It can be anywhere from barely noticable to completely unplayable. I've had the following multi GPU setups in the last 1.5 years:

8800GTS 640MB SLI
8800GT SLI
8800GTS 512 SLI
3870 X2
3870 X2 Quadfire
9800GX2
9800GX2 Quad SLI
4870 512MB Crossfire
4870 X2
4870 X2 Quadfire
GTX 280 SLI

Every single multi GPU setup has suffered from microstuttering. With the 4870X2 and GTX 280 it's BARELY noticable and if I hadn't been so sensitive from past setups I probably wouldn't be able to notice it.

But if anybody doubts micro-stuttering; get a pair of 3870X2's and run Crysis DX9 on HIGH in quadfire mode. Watch your amazing 60+ fps rendering of a game that is COMPLETELY unplayable.
 
xp3nd4bl3 said:
Microstutter exists. It can be anywhere from barely noticable to completely unplayable. I've had the following multi GPU setups in the last 1.5 years:

8800GTS 640MB SLI
8800GT SLI
8800GTS 512 SLI
3870 X2
3870 X2 Quadfire
9800GX2
9800GX2 Quad SLI
4870 512MB Crossfire
4870 X2
4870 X2 Quadfire
GTX 280 SLI
Click to expand...

Or are you just naming off some multi-gpu setups? Your very perceptive, I'd imagine.
 
To be honest the term was widely used to downplay the release of the HD 4870 X2, which is a dual GPU solution to compete against the GTX 280. In the end the HD 4870 X2 proves itself that it is a superior card both in term of framerate and playability in most games. Hard didn't talk about it because they don't aim for a specific fps while benchmarking the cards, they aim for playability.
Click to expand...

It was around before that card but sure believe what you want.
You sound like Ati PR
 
RamonGTP said:
That's great, but not everyone plays their games through Kyle's eyes. Just becuase he didn't notice it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Yep, I think this is something that they have to learn with their video card review method, it's good for people that have preferences very close to that of the [H] staff but next to useless for everyone else.
 
Is it possible that what alot of people experience is just the mid level loading we all experience in the middle of a high end video game(makes since why it would happen more on older cards). Especially if your pushing a game to it's limits. I mean do you ever get microstutter in quake 3? People claim there's less with the higher end cards with multi gt200/4800 series cards. I don't believe either of these manufacturers claimed they did anything to fix this. If it's the issue people say it is wouldn't they be the first to?

I haven't had any multi gpu cards since voodoo2, so I can't give a first hand account. But didn't the person that originally discovered the issue say it's not what most people think it is, and it's not as big of a deal that people are making out of it?
 
xp3nd4bl3 said:
Microstutter exists. It can be anywhere from barely noticable to completely unplayable. I've had the following multi GPU setups in the last 1.5 years:

8800GTS 640MB SLI
8800GT SLI
8800GTS 512 SLI
3870 X2
3870 X2 Quadfire
9800GX2
9800GX2 Quad SLI
4870 512MB Crossfire
4870 X2
4870 X2 Quadfire
GTX 280 SLI

Every single multi GPU setup has suffered from microstuttering. With the 4870X2 and GTX 280 it's BARELY noticable and if I hadn't been so sensitive from past setups I probably wouldn't be able to notice it.

But if anybody doubts micro-stuttering; get a pair of 3870X2's and run Crysis DX9 on HIGH in quadfire mode. Watch your amazing 60+ fps rendering of a game that is COMPLETELY unplayable.
Click to expand...

and I don't believe you
 
xp3nd4bl3 said:
Microstutter exists. It can be anywhere from barely noticable to completely unplayable. I've had the following multi GPU setups in the last 1.5 years:

8800GTS 640MB SLI
8800GT SLI
8800GTS 512 SLI
3870 X2
3870 X2 Quadfire
9800GX2
9800GX2 Quad SLI
4870 512MB Crossfire
4870 X2
4870 X2 Quadfire
GTX 280 SLI

Every single multi GPU setup has suffered from microstuttering. With the 4870X2 and GTX 280 it's BARELY noticable and if I hadn't been so sensitive from past setups I probably wouldn't be able to notice it.

But if anybody doubts micro-stuttering; get a pair of 3870X2's and run Crysis DX9 on HIGH in quadfire mode. Watch your amazing 60+ fps rendering of a game that is COMPLETELY unplayable.
Click to expand...

lol u are telling us that u owned every single most expansive(RIPPED OFF)setups since the 8800s. Both ati AND nvidia too, lmao.

Unless you do reviews for hardware sites, you are full of shit
 
LOL, I can't believe you guys are all calling BS on me that I've had all those setups. Look through the For Sale section at the threads I've started. Most of those cards I listed I've sold in there. And the small number I didn't sell on THIS forum I gave away to friends. I probably have 3DMark results from all those setups as well.
 
xp3nd4bl3 said:
LOL, I can't believe you guys are all calling BS on me that I've had all those setups. Look through the For Sale section at the threads I've started. Most of those cards I listed I've sold in there. And the small number I didn't sell on THIS forum I gave away to friends. I probably have 3DMark results from all those setups as well.
Click to expand...
you spent more time installing cards and fooling with drivers then playing games :p
 
Ahh...microstutter threads. Always lovely.

chinesepiratefood said:
You had it partly correct. The micro stuttering was talked about so much during the 4870X2's release because people who had the card before it was released, claimed it FIXED micro stuttering, and it got everyone clambering. Of course it didn't, but that is another discussion.
Click to expand...
No, it didn't fix it, but it significantly reduced the appearance of it. For all intents and purposes, microstutter on the 48xx series is a non-issue.

wrangler said:
Kyle says that microstutter only exists in the forums.
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Kyle's just as capable of being wrong as anyone else :)

butterfliesrpretty said:
Is it possible that what alot of people experience is just the mid level loading we all experience in the middle of a high end video game(makes since why it would happen more on older cards).
Click to expand...
Not really. This is a different phenomenon altogether.

 
fe_918 said:
lol u are telling us that u owned every single most expansive(RIPPED OFF)setups since the 8800s. Both ati AND nvidia too, lmao.

Unless you do reviews for hardware sites, you are full of shit
Click to expand...

wait a second. unless you know the poster personally you can't say that he hasn't owned or doesn't still owns the parts he's talking about. you don't have to be a video card reviewer to buy lots of video cards. i've owned just as much gear. not everyone on these forums are starving college students. some of us have successful careers and disposable income.
 
I think micro stutter is just people finally realizing that their cheap LCD they got for $200 is actually shite :D
 
phide said:
Not really. This is a different phenomenon altogether.
Click to expand...

Yet many people are confusing these issues. There are many things that will give in-game stutter. For instance, lack of either or both normal and videocard ram, slow ram, games which access the HDD in-game( e.g. X3:TerranConflict ) because they have reached the 32-bit ram limit or whatever, etc., etc. Way too many people are confusing some or all of these with multi-gpu stuttering, which is something else entirely, and also far less noticeable.

Seems to me the reason the 4870X2 pretty much made 'microstuttering' a non-issue is *not* because it got rid of microstuttering, but because the very fast 1gb ddr5 ram simply helps avoid all other stuttering which people mistakenly took for multi-gpu stutter.
 
xp3nd4bl3 said:
I've had the following multi GPU setups in the last 1.5 years:

8800GTS 640MB SLI
8800GT SLI
8800GTS 512 SLI
3870 X2
3870 X2 Quadfire
9800GX2
9800GX2 Quad SLI
4870 512MB Crossfire
4870 X2
4870 X2 Quadfire
GTX 280 SLI
Click to expand...

so... if it's been in the last 1.5 years you bought them all when they were new[ish]

let's take a peek at those numbers jim

3800x2 [2] ~ $900
8800 [6 of them?] ~ $1500 [pending many things...]
4870 [2] ~ $600
9800gx2 [2] ~ $1200
4870x2 [2] ~ $1200
280 [2] ~ $1000 [again, pending many things...]

so all told in the past 1+ years you've spent roughly $6k on video cards alone - and you wonder why people are giving you shift?

you would have to be gaming at 25x16 - cause if you arent there is zero reason to have ever upgraded from one of the 8800's - let alone a pair or more in sli

gamers are a smart bunch - spending six grand and getting what could best be described as a marginal increase in performance... well it just isnt very smart

but not being smart isnt the problem - the problem is it just doesnt make any farking sense!

:)

but hey, one mans opinion and all... if you've got the cash for it... do you
 
jamhamm said:
so... if it's been in the last 1.5 years you bought them all when they were new[ish]

let's take a peek at those numbers jim

3800x2 [2] ~ $900
8800 [6 of them?] ~ $1500 [pending many things...]
4870 [2] ~ $600
9800gx2 [2] ~ $1200
4870x2 [2] ~ $1200
280 [2] ~ $1000 [again, pending many things...]

so all told in the past 1+ years you've spent roughly $6k on video cards alone - and you wonder why people are giving you shift?

you would have to be gaming at 25x16 - cause if you arent there is zero reason to have ever upgraded from one of the 8800's - let alone a pair or more in sli

gamers are a smart bunch - spending six grand and getting what could best be described as a marginal increase in performance... well it just isnt very smart

but not being smart isnt the problem - the problem is it just doesnt make any farking sense!

:)

but hey, one mans opinion and all... if you've got the cash for it... do you
Click to expand...

Entertain, for a second, that $6k to me may not mean what it means to somebody else. Also imagine, if you will, that my primary objective is never necessarily "sufficient gaming performance" nearly as much as it is tinkering around and having a good time testing cool new shit out. I have more fun screwing around with my hardware then I do actually gaming. The gaming is just the part where I enjoy the fruits of my labors. I usually sell my hardware for about 2/3 of what I paid for it or I donate it to friends' rigs so it always works out well for me. This hobby costs me nothing close to my drag racing hobby.

It's the price we pay to keep ourselves entertained. :)

The topic here though is micro-stuttering. And I say it's REAL!
 
So you say you had microstutter on almost every high end card?

Sounds like someone can't afford good parts so they convince themselves they are bad.
 
Xathian said:
So you say you had microstutter on almost every high end card?

Sounds like someone can't afford good parts so they convince themselves they are bad.
Click to expand...

To me the 3870x2 quad and 9800gx2 quad were the absolute worst setups. My dual GTX 280 setup is awesome. I really only notice the micro-stuttering in the really bad parts of Crysis. I'm almost tempted to pick up a 3rd GTX 280 because I've been so impressed with it. I was also essentially unable to discern any microstuttering on the 4870x2, though I observed NO performance gain by adding a 2nd card for quad crossfire.

Because of my recent obsession with multi GPU setups I'm absolutely dying for the Lucid Hydra to come out. I'll pay essentially any cost for a motherboard or add-in card with the technology. Even if it doesn't work as well as advertised I'm really anxious to play around with it.
 
Raap said:
Seems to me the reason the 4870X2 pretty much made 'microstuttering' a non-issue is *not* because it got rid of microstuttering, but because the very fast 1gb ddr5 ram simply helps avoid all other stuttering which people mistakenly took for multi-gpu stutter.
Click to expand...
It's possible, but microstutter is an isolatable and measurable occurrence and the 48xx-series is measurably better than the GTX 2xx-series in identical scenarios (when thrashing is a non-issue). It exhibits marginally less frame latency fluctuation.
 
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