ManofGod
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So, where are those McDonald's ads? So, you are saying I cannot just purchase Ms Office as a one time cost at Best Buy? Talk about the Emperor has no cloths.
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Microsoft to Offer Paid Windows 7 Extended Security Updates
- Thread starter Megalith
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So, where are those McDonald's ads? So, you are saying I cannot just purchase Ms Office as a one time cost at Best Buy? Talk about the Emperor has no cloths.
Spaceninja
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Since MS doesn't usually learn from it's mistakes, there will probably be a registry key you can modify that will allow you to continue getting security updates like Windows XP had. Last time I turned my old XP machine on it had a few updates to install.
Hagrid
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Even MS knows that people will pay to keep the best OS updated! I am not surprised that there is enough people not wanting to switch. MS can't pay everybody to make their product 10 only.
Looks like ads to me:
Also for an OS without ads, it sure asks you how targeted your ads are (lower left) upon a new install:
And hey, look, an ad in Windows Explorer:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3178683/windows/microsoft-ads-invade-windows-10s-file-explorer.html
As for Office 365, it looks like I was incorrect on that and they do plan to continue standalone versions for now. I'd say that's more slippery slope territory. If you look at a company like Adobe, they DID kill their standalone products and made subscription services their only option now.
They tried to trojan it in retroactively, but it's easy enough to delete/block a few KB updates and UNintroduce that shit.
Other than that there's only a hundred other things Windows 7 doesn't abuse users with:
No Schizofrenic UI with settings and menus scattered across multiple UI conventions, including a failed mobile/metro one they already abandoned.
No ugly Fisher Price tiles on start menu
No forced full reinstall every 5 months that resets your settings back to MS defaults and deletes all OS tweaks, telemetry blocks, etc.
No forced reboots in the middle of working with files open
No pointless, feature stripped mobile apps replacing proper Win32 default programs
No endless stream of untested updates and endless re-patching of those updates
No toys, games and phone apps constantly reinstalling themselves even after using powershell to uninstall them
No trash dump app Store full of third worlder knockoff apps. Seriously, search "YouTube" and prepare to laugh yourself stupid.
And that's just for starters, not even mentioning Cortana, Edge, Ads, etc.
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ManofGod
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Nope there are no ads, despite your opinion. However, it would be better not to have those games installed on a domain connected computer, at least.
SamuraiInBlack
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Windows 7 at home, win10 at work.
Ever since they rolled out win10 we've been having to figure out workarounds, and what hoops to jump through for things that were stupid simple on 7. We have software that simply does not work under 10, and said software is vital to some of what we need to work with our suppliers. I don't think the company that made it is even around anymore which may be why we haven't been able to get it running on 10. For whatever reason, Edge and IE on 10 won't play nice with some of our portals, so we have to use third party browsers like Chrome or Firefox just to get our work done.
I want to like 10. I do. But for at home it doesn't offer me anything compelling enough to use it other than "windows 7 will eventually not be supported by some stuff" and that's a bridge that isn't much concern right now. Everything I have works.
At work, it's just been more hindering than helping in terms of getting stuff done.
Ever since they rolled out win10 we've been having to figure out workarounds, and what hoops to jump through for things that were stupid simple on 7. We have software that simply does not work under 10, and said software is vital to some of what we need to work with our suppliers. I don't think the company that made it is even around anymore which may be why we haven't been able to get it running on 10. For whatever reason, Edge and IE on 10 won't play nice with some of our portals, so we have to use third party browsers like Chrome or Firefox just to get our work done.
I want to like 10. I do. But for at home it doesn't offer me anything compelling enough to use it other than "windows 7 will eventually not be supported by some stuff" and that's a bridge that isn't much concern right now. Everything I have works.
At work, it's just been more hindering than helping in terms of getting stuff done.
ManofGod
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This is not 10s fault, these issues are on those who did the roll out. Critical systems should be tested first, verified and if needed, replaced before a roll out occurs. A new system will be needed sooner or later.
auntjemima
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I'll agree that the tiles you showed in the start menu were definitely ads, there isn't really any way it could be seen otherwise, however I don't really see the concern with the ad you are showing here.
You are in OneDrive and it is showing you an ad referencing an upgrade path for OneDrive. Almost 100% of programs out there do the same thing every time you open their free app, if they also provide a paid option. Every time you open it you are bound to get a popup or an initial window telling you what features you could get with the paid option.
So, Microsoft as a company doing it is an issue, or do you consider it an issue with all programs out there? To be fair, Microsoft is just a company making programs and bundling them all into one large package. So them suggesting their paid choices just makes sense.
That was a quick screengrab I found online. It's inside Windows Explorer:
As for it being an issue, I consider it one for any software that you paid for. If I bought a game and it's telling me to buy the DLC, I don't like that either. I find it more egregious for Windows though, since it has a decades long history of NOT giving you ads inside the OS. In fact, I don't know of other OS's that DO show you ads. In any event, ManofGod was saying it's ridiculous to think they're moving to a subscription model. My point was getting users used to ads inside their own OS is a step towards desensitizing people to that sort of thing. I was never implying it doesn't make sense. Of course it makes sense for Microsoft. They're a monopoly and can do what they want, and this no doubt makes them more money. That doesn't mean I don't think it's a terrible precedent for the user.
auntjemima
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I expect a subscription model at some point. I think it would be foolish to think otherwise. I expect it to be deployed as an option for whatever niche group they think of, and if it takes off they will move it to bigger and better.
I realise it's in Explorer. But it's in the OneDrive portion of explorer. I understand the slippery slope argument, as this is not expected behaviour for MS, based on their previous track record.
I find MS always misses the boat with new trends and they take a ton of flak for it. This time around I see them almost jumping the gun and getting the same flak in return. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
SamuraiInBlack
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Partially, yes. But other issues are entirely with 10. We were able to use IE just fine under 7 for everything we needed browser access for. For whatever reason, IE and Edge do not work the same out of the box for what we need it for. As far as I know we didn't have any special configurations or third party add-ons for IE on 7. I would like to think IE would at least not be affected.
I also think that the lack of support for current or semi-current versions of software on 10 is a smack in the face, testing or none. It's not like we were getting by on NT 4.0 and suddenly bought state of the art workstations.
auntjemima
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The IE thing I will give you, but the rest is on your companys side. Windows 10 has been out for years. If your company upgraded to 10 without first verifying the software you need to do your job was functional, that's your workplaces fuck up, plain and simple.
Your complaints are ill-placed. I understand that the internet told you that you have to hate MS for Windows 10, but you don't, I assure you. Windows was in beta for years and now has been released for years. Software vendors all over have new versions. It isn't the OS's fault their isn't a new software version or that your company is a bunch of twat rockets.
I think that's pretty misleading. I didn't like ads in software I paid for in the past, I don't like them now, I doubt I'll like them in the future. Ditto for pay per month subscription models of software you could previously own. This is pure "damned if you do" in my eyes. I don't care who it's coming from, but especially Microsoft since they make my OS for crying out loud. There are trends in design and then there's trends of shaking down the consumer for more money and taking away rights. This is the latter. Adding something like virtual desktops is a design trend they're late to the party on. This here is just incrementally increased exploitation.
ManofGod
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I cannot give him the IE thing either. We're they using IE10? Did they have compatibility mode set? It is not so simple as that.
ManofGod
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There is no logical reason to expect a Windows OS subscription model, at all. So, you seriously think someone is going to just buy an HP or Dell from Best buy and then pay extra just to be able to use it?
They already do for Microsoft Office 365, why should the operating system be any different.
Redmond has been drooling over the idea of a subscription OS for the last 20 years.
Trust me, it's coming.
ManofGod
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Because logically, it is two entirely different things. Also, you do not have to have Office to use your computer but you must have an OS. Nope, I do not trust you.
I think there's every reason to expect a subscription model. In fact I think it makes perfect sense considering the obvious direction Microsoft are taking.
ManofGod
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Well, anyone who want MS to DIAF would "expect" this although there is no logical reason to think so. Also, there is no evidence of this, either.
And anyone that's so obviously a fan of Windows 10 would make such a predictable claim.
ManofGod
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I am a fan of computers, I do not hook myself to some perceived sjw wagon. I choose not to limit myself and besides, my only OS I was a true fan of was OS/2 Warp and Amiga OS.
auntjemima
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I haven't tried using their specific portal on both IE11 on Windows 7 and then on Windows 10, so I cannot comment directly and neither can you. Therefore, they are the only one that can speak to it.
Maybe there are differences, maybe their aren't, who knows, I don't and neither do you
Good to hear. I don't limit myself either, hence the reason why I'm willing to call Windows out for what it is and happily use an alternate OS for literally all of my needs. I honestly see a subscription model in the cards for Windows.
So turn off the ads. I've got none and a quick google search will turn up instructions on how to turn off whatever ads they have (though I know I posted a link on how to do that in the past). I think the last one I got was for 360 and the main reason I turned it off was to prove that it could be turned off.
That makes sense. As I recall, Hospitals were among the last places to switch from XP to 7.
It ain't for the person complaining on [H], it's for businesses. They did the exact same thing with XP I they probably did it with 2000 too. I suspect most computers will be using 10 before Thanksgiving, if not Halloween.
Hagrid
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I bet some regular users would buy it!
No ads here. And honestly the ones you have are easily removed....and I'll add that I don't even see play/explore, unless I widen the menu (as seen above but only like that so I could do the screen shot) or scroll down (which I never do)
We'll see when the pricing comes out. My guess is very few will. If it's the same as XP, it'll run around $200/device for the first year. It'll be more for year 2 and even more for year 3...after that no more support.
I like windows, it works for me, but aside from new features as a home user I've found each version better than the last, with the exceptions of the first year of Vista and 8, though I'll add that while I didn't love the 8 menu, it really didn't affect me, since I just type what I want and hit enter.
For 10 settings that's not always a winner, because (AFAICT) MS has failed to port 100% of control panel into settings and I do consider that a major flaw on their side. It's 3 years in and there's really no excuse for not having everything in settings at this point.
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SamuraiInBlack
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Granted, yes, my company is operated by people of questionable intellect. But I still think it's bullshit that a new operating system can drop, and it can render current operating versions of other software useless when trying to run it. This isn't like Conan Exiles when every patch update broke mod functionality. It's not like we're trying to get Office 97 to run on 10. We've been running stuff that was made to run on 8.1. A new OS release that isn't vastly different from the one before it at its core shouldn't break it.
Second, I request that you not pretend that you know me or what I think, because you don't. I've already stated that I want to like Windows 10. I can't because it offers me nothing that isn't already taken care of by Windows 7. At my work I find 10 annoying to use at best.
The version of IE available on our workstations has a 32-bit and 64-bit version both installed, along with Edge. I've used all three. They are all equally trash. Compatibility mode was only set for one site, and that was for the old payroll portal for logging our hours. We have switched to a new one that does not require compatibility mode and works fine, albeit slow, but that could be from a number of things since we are only using the best equipment corporate will approve buying.
That wasn't the point. ManofGod was claiming they don't exist in the first place. I was pointing out, yes, they do. Now you can agree or disagree that this level of invasiveness could be testing the waters for moving to a subscription model, but pretending it's not even happening isn't a valid argument.
I feel like a lot of these complaints about Windows 10 are old and tired and irrelevant at this point. Yes, the Microsoft store sucks. I've had Windows 10 since day 1, and I've launched the store once to look at it, and haven't touched it since. I've never experienced the forced Windows 10 "You must reboot right this second" problem, because I set Windows to not do that. Settings is improving all the time, but most of your options are still available in control panel. I worked in retail computer repair for 3 years, as well, and heard all of the same complaints from our 50-70 year old customers who just didn't like change...
heatlesssun
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If one doesn't use the Store how would they know it sucks and that there aren't any useful applications there? While the Microsoft won't work as the only source of Windows software there are some good, even must have applications there. The Windows 10 Netflix app, that's a must have. Xodo, best free light weight PDF reader editor on any version of Windows. It's just another source for software and there's plenty of there that many will find useful. But it's not exhaustive by any means.
I guess I should've been more specific. I was talking about my personal computer. I used it on customer computers pretty regularly. The selection is fine, it was navigation that sucked.
It has been a year or so since I really had to dig into it, so I'm willing to admit that my knowledge is likely dated in that respect.
You mean the sort of people that make up the bulk of the Windows user base.
I guess, but aside from the game tiles (which I haven't seen in ages, including post semi-annual updates) and 360, I've seen no ads. I get that they could do it, but so far, I haven't seen anything that's more of an ad than on most prebuilt PCs. I've seen other software that does similar things too and like this those can be turned off.
I guess my thing is it's been roughly 17 years of these end of the world posts about something MS is going to do the first was something around the time XP SP1 or SP2 came out and in the end it was a nothingburger. So far this seems the same. If that changes, I'll reevaluate.
Milenials are the largest generation and are 100% under 40. The vast majority of Gen X is under 50. The amount over 50 are roughly the same as the amount under 40. So no, that's not the buld of windows users. But even then, my parents went from 7-10 and I think I had to walk my mom through 1 or 2 things which could be solved in a couple of minutes over the phone. As I recall, I didn't have to do anything with my Dad, but he's less of a power user than my 80 year old mom.
Millenials are the largest generation? Really? Perhaps in the US, in many countries I'm quite sure it's a different story considering the issues surrounding retirement and an ageing population as a result of the baby boomer generation that didn't have enough kids.
The people you quote as complaining are a very, very large proportion of Windows users. They lack any real computing skill, they don't even know what Windows is, they have no idea how to install an OS - In fact most of the time they have no idea how to install software or even get a printer working.
Prior to Windows 10, I'd agree with you. From my perspective things HAVE changed. Windows 10 removes the options to control which updates you accept or not. Furthermore, it's not well documented how to completely disable them (many methods reactivate later). So now, the vast majority of people HAVE to accept updates within a given time span, even if they cause problems. That's a HUGE paradigm shift in my eyes. I've encountered problematic updates for me in the past, and I ended up reverting and skipping the particular ones that gave me issues. Windows 10 makes that method of computing impossible. There's no recourse now if something goes wrong. That's completely unacceptable to me. Sure, you can have them be fine 99.9% of the time, but if you run into one that causes major problems for you, there's no way around it now. It's not really your system anymore.
I've always used my system in such a way that if something goes wrong, I have a backup plan I can rely on. To take that level of protection of the user I find insane. I don't need to wait until I ACTUALLY have a serious problem, the vulnerability's already been introduced. Just because things work fine TODAY doesn't mean I won't be in the unlucky minority where they won't screw up later when I'm working on something important. This is a fundamental change in how people use their computers. Just because it "seems the same", doesn't mean it is. I'm still amazed how many technical people fail to understand the concept.
D
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I actually bought a Dell XPS 410 tower back in 2006. I paid to have it come with XP instead of Vista. LOL. Anyway, when the Win 7 betas started coming out I was all for trying them, even gave reports to MS. When 7 was finalized, I thought it was just great. Paid for OEM, happy as could be.
As with Vista, I skipped the Crazy 8's. Went on to 10. My life has been a living hell since. My cat is shacked up with a local loser dog. Some lunatic is running America. Folks are getting antsy about "notches" on overly priced cell phones. GPUs are now going to cost around $1500 per output port. I'm scared.
Ok. Windows 10 has been pretty much fine in my experience. Yeah, I hate the telemetry, and the updates make me cringe, especially the big'ns. But I do back stuff up, even though just to a local external HDD.
To me it's just not that big of a deal. BTW, I was trying to be funny. I wasn't trying to trivialize any bad experiences others may have had.
As with Vista, I skipped the Crazy 8's. Went on to 10. My life has been a living hell since. My cat is shacked up with a local loser dog. Some lunatic is running America. Folks are getting antsy about "notches" on overly priced cell phones. GPUs are now going to cost around $1500 per output port. I'm scared.
Ok. Windows 10 has been pretty much fine in my experience. Yeah, I hate the telemetry, and the updates make me cringe, especially the big'ns. But I do back stuff up, even though just to a local external HDD.
To me it's just not that big of a deal. BTW, I was trying to be funny. I wasn't trying to trivialize any bad experiences others may have had.
The problem is, you shouldn't have to take entire system state backups because the operating system's too fragile to update without falling over. Yes, such backups are important when it comes to 'very rare' instances where the OS falls over or a HDD fails, but the constant requirement for full backups because the OS is fragile just isn't good enough.
I just can't handle the speed of the updating process, it just sits at 'initializing update' for ever, it's soooooo slow. Then it restarts and takes even longer while I clench my sphincter waiting for everything to fall in a heap.
And damn that Start menu nilepez posted is ugly, how nice it would look with simple classy vector based icons instead of those huge tiles.