Microsoft stoops to new low

Okay. Enough of this shit.
I didn't really mind the 'upgrade to win 10' icon in the system tray. Really.

Seriously, I actually thought it was a pretty good idea to feed relevant OS news without having to visit Microsoft's page.
Sure, it would be nice if it went away after a while or something. But hogging my 20/1 connection at work just won't do.
And I have observed some serious network slowdowns last week.
As usual, I don't take this as granted, and my tin foil hat has a sunroof, but I'll have to sift through our workstations tomorrow and curb Windows Update's ambition a bit.
 
I saw this, too, during Gabe Aul's twitter ramblings before launch and was pretty concerned but other folks here kept telling me to take off my tinfoil hat.
 
svet-am said:
I saw this, too, during Gabe Aul's twitter ramblings before launch and was pretty concerned but other folks here kept telling me to take off my tinfoil hat.
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Who'd want you to take the hat off but the very same persons who want to infiltrate your mind?! :D

I have the 'gift' of being able to process various options concurrently. Like religion. There may or not be an afterlife. My knowledge of biology and cosmology tells me we're just an extension of the universe and mere tools that disappear along with their memories. But I don't believe this is a fact. I don't have faith, I have hope for a nice surprise.

Here, just look at step one of why a company exists. To make money. How's many made these days? What's the commodity? Info. Do we have 'ears' in our intertubes? yes. Are there any companies protective enough of their intellectual property to call this out and combat it? yes. Are ordinary people in danger? not more than by posting nudes online.

Tin foils are fine as long as you at least do your own research.
 
Yes, Windows downloads updates in the background.

You guys are really grasping at straws at this point.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Yes, Windows downloads updates in the background.

You guys are really grasping at straws at this point.
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This is not an update. This is the whole damn Windows 10 installation -- just by having the GXE icon sitting in the tray -- even if you never opted in.

I agree with you on standard security updates and maybe even feature updates driven by Windows Update. This is a completely different scenario altogether.
 
Crusty_juggler I do realize it downloads updates silently and it's welcomed.

But I asked it to download important software. Not a whole OS. They weren't so eager with auto-pushing 8.1 for 8 users, were they.
 
It is horrible they are doing this. They must be getting paid very well from "somewhere" to not only offer it "free", but forcibly pushing it.

Linux Mint sounds refreshing right about now.
 
Calavaro said:
It is horrible they are doing this. They must be getting paid very well from "somewhere" to not only offer it "free", but forcibly pushing it.

Linux Mint sounds refreshing right about now.
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Go try Linux and come report back. If it was decent more than 2% of people would be using it. Linux has had decades to make itself into a via desktop OS and hasn't made any progress no matter how much it Windows trips and falls.
 
So the more machines they can get it on, they can turn those machines into bittorrent servers, for updates for more customers. I assume that's what the "BT" in the directory name is for. Seems pretty shady to me.
 
ocellaris said:
Go try Linux and come report back. If it was decent more than 2% of people would be using it. Linux has had decades to make itself into a via desktop OS and hasn't made any progress no matter how much it Windows trips and falls.
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The fact is that I have tried a flavor of Linux at least once a year for a very long time... and each time it has come up short. But I fear my choices are getting more and more limited, and I may be forced to migrate to Linux. I just need to figure out how to reliably run Photoshop "over there".
 
timta2 said:
So the more machines they can get it on, they can turn those machines into bittorrent servers, for updates for more customers. I assume that's what the "BT" in the directory name is for. Seems pretty shady to me.
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That's how a network virus behaves, in broad strokes.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Yes, Windows downloads updates in the background.

You guys are really grasping at straws at this point.
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Try actually reading the article before posting next time. It is about Windows10 OS downloading onto Win7/8 PCs in the background when the user never even reserved it.
 
ocellaris said:
Go try Linux and come report back. If it was decent more than 2% of people would be using it. Linux has had decades to make itself into a via desktop OS and hasn't made any progress no matter how much it Windows trips and falls.
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Linux is a very viable alternative but there are proprietary reasons to use Windows for many people. If I wasn't a gamer I would not use Windows anymore.
 
rezerekted said:
Linux is a very viable alternative but there are proprietary reasons to use Windows for many people. If I wasn't a gamer I would not use Windows anymore.
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no it's not, I had to setup a linux desktop the other day for a special project, it took me like 4 hours to install the nvidia drivers to get multiple monitors working and even then it was super laggy on a dual quad box with 12gb ram...

believe me, I would love to run linux on my desktop since most of my servers are linux VMs, but it just sucks to use as a desktop
 
Don't have multiple monitors so don't know about that but installing proprietary Nvidia drivers on Linux Mint took no longer than in Windows.
 
Yes, sadly the obsession with spawning new distributions with new toolkits instead of finally ironing out existing ones has created a small nightmare both for desktop and server use.
It's not just the GUI. Random example - I was installing Ubuntu Server 12 on a Supermicro X10SLM-F. Installed fine. Reboot - no video. At all. None in the console, no GUI. Had to edit the bootloader's entry for the system to include some obscure 'nomodeset' directive. It's just sad.
Everyone has their idea for a package manager and a 'lightweight distro'. Or they want 'best distro for older computer'. Sad truth is, Desktop Linux is actually unusable on old computers where XP and 7 work almost good. Believe me, I tried. And I did tinker with removing startup services, VGA drivers, the works. Even recompiled the kernel for that particular machine's architecture. The project ultimately failed because the user just couldn't deal with the remote-desktop like responsiveness. This has happened on more than one occasion.
I use it. For servers and sometimes for the desktop. I can navigate and fix stuff because it gradually became second nature, like Windows, but you often have to re-learn a lot of things because fundamental changes are sometimes introduced to new versions of a particular distro.
I don't upgrade in place. Just backup the configs and install a newer one from zero.
 
FLECOM said:
no it's not, I had to setup a linux desktop the other day for a special project, it took me like 4 hours to install the nvidia drivers to get multiple monitors working and even then it was super laggy on a dual quad box with 12gb ram...

believe me, I would love to run linux on my desktop since most of my servers are linux VMs, but it just sucks to use as a desktop
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Yes it is. I've had the opposite experience and have to vote that it is viable. I recently installed Debian 8 on a 3770K, 16GB RAM, and R9-290 with AMD Catalyst drivers (you know.. not the gold standard for drivers) and it has pretty much just worked. Install the prerequisite packages and Next your way through the Catalyst installer.
I don't expect it to have the performance advantage by any means, but most of the Linux supported games available through Steam that I have tried have been snappy at 2560x1440.

So.. if this business plan of theirs offends you (*general you) to that point, yes. Yes, it's quite possible to switch unless you're locked into some particular software that does not support Linux.
 
I gave up on Microsoft last week and switched to Linux Mint 17.2 and I fully intend to use it from now on. I do some SDR (Software Defined Radio) work nowadays with GNURadio and I'm not left with much choice anymore. Dual booting doesn't really make things all that efficient either so, I've done a clean but fully integrated - minus all the telemetry updates pushed out so far - of Windows 7 Pro in a virtual machine with VMware Player handling the execution duties. It works great, even has hardware acceleration for the interface so I'm good to go if I need to run a Windows program and I can do it at the same time which is great.

Microsoft, I had a good long run with you, almost 40 years I've been using your products, but enough's enough, seriously. I'm not a big fan of Linux but, this time I'm gonna stick it out like it or not and make the best of it from here on out.
 
FLECOM said:
no it's not, I had to setup a linux desktop the other day for a special project, it took me like 4 hours to install the nvidia drivers to get multiple monitors working and even then it was super laggy on a dual quad box with 12gb ram...

believe me, I would love to run linux on my desktop since most of my servers are linux VMs, but it just sucks to use as a desktop
Click to expand...

You either did something wrong or just had incompatible hardware. Linux is super snappy as a desktop when configured correctly.
 
B00nie said:
You either did something wrong or just had incompatible hardware. Linux is super snappy as a desktop when configured correctly.
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Ditto. The official nVidia drivers are in the repo for every major distribution. If it took you four hours, you definitely did something wrong. I drive four monitors on two separate nVidia cards (one PCIe, the other PCI) and the nVidia drivers always (eg, regardless of which distribution) see the cards right away as well as the monitors.

The days of booting into single-user mode to install the driver and then hacking on Xorg.conf are years behind us at this point.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Yes, Windows downloads updates in the background.

You guys are really grasping at straws at this point.
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A 6GB "Windows update". Right.

Speaking of grasping.. Your troll schtick is just getting boring now.
 
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eh, how much bandwidth is this costing me? How do I stop this shit

9pKUTcu.gif
 
rezerekted said:
Try actually reading the article before posting next time. It is about Windows10 OS downloading onto Win7/8 PCs in the background when the user never even reserved it.
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I would lay money that at some point Microsoft is going to just start auto installing 10, after tricking people with some pop-up to click OK on a revised EULA that gives them permission to install it. I keep reading how Win10 uptake has slowed dramatically after the initial wave, compounded by all the people that rolled back or never upgraded because of the black cloud of data spying that MS has refused to be more transparent on.

7 is the new XP, Microsoft knows it, people are wising up to 10, so only a matter of time til they sneak more slimy updates into 7 or 8 the way they did with "Telemetry". The shills will swear this could never happen but then they said GWX.exe would never happen.
 
DPI said:
I would lay money that at some point Microsoft is going to just start auto installing 10, after tricking people with some pop-up to click OK on a revised EULA that gives them permission to install it. I keep reading how Win10 uptake has slowed dramatically after the initial wave, compounded by all the people that rolled back or never upgraded because of the black cloud of data spying that MS has refused to be more transparent on.

7 is the new XP, Microsoft knows it, people are wising up to 10, so only a matter of time til they sneak more slimy updates into 7 or 8 the way they did with "Telemetry". The shills will swear this could never happen but then they said GWX.exe would never happen.
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Needs more tin foil.
 
Here you go...found this user post at The Inquirer. You think he is wearing a tin foil hat too? Microsoft needs to be held accountable for this IMO.

Bier00t • an hour ago

It happened to my company computers. We didnt have WSUS so every computer downloaded this separately. 60 computers and 10 MBit internet made our connection suffer until I started WSUS server to prevent it ever from happening.

How about this one?

nvic • 6 hours ago

I deleted the BT folder on my PC...several gig in size. I never asked for it, and do not plan to upgrade.

I also have had several people come to me after their PC decided to upgrade on its own (as in it installed it too, no reservation or anything either in these PCs) and I had to uninstall it for them (at least Windows 10 includes an uninstaller) and clean up the mess that upgrade and downgrade leaves behind.

Then we get to this lovely nugget.

FordGT90Concept • 13 hours ago

Running Windows Server 2012 R2 here and $Windows.~WS (>10 GiB--definitely Windows 10 install files) and $Windows.~BS (< 1 MiB) both exist. Microsoft downloaded a client OS on an Active Directory domain controller.
 
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Here is useful info on this issue.

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-10/...-might-be-downloading-domain-joined-computers

"Reasons Why Windows 10 Might be Downloading on Domain-Joined Computers"

Here is the Microsoft spin doctoring pretending they are doing us all a favor by pre-loading it even if you don't want it.

"For those who have chosen to receive automatic updates through Windows Update, we help customers prepare their devices for Windows 10 by downloading the files necessary for future installation. This results in a better upgrade experience and ensures the customer&#8217;s device has the latest software. This is an industry practice that reduces time for installation and ensures device readiness. For organizations, IT professionals can manage and control downloads on their networks." &#8211; a Microsoft spokesperson
 
Windows Update has become completely untrustworthy. It used to be for security updates, but now they're sending all sorts of spyware and adware.

For example, the Windows 10 spyware (keylogging etc) was rolled out to Windows 7 and 8 in the form of these updates:

KB3068708
KB3022345
KB3075249
KB3080149

They were installed as Essential updates. Microsoft say you only get them if you're opted in to the Windows Experience Programme, but since you're opted in by default everyone will get them. To opt out you have to run gpedit.msc and go to Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> System -> Internet Communication Management -> Internet Communication Settings. There turn on "Turn off Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program" which opts you out.

As well as the spyware there the Windows 10 adware:

KB3035583
KB2952664

Then there's also the Windows 10 preparation updates, which is probably what download Windows 10 even if you don't want it:

KB2977759
KB3021917
KB3035583

It's ridiculous that you have to constantly monitor what updates you get in order to avoid getting spyware and adware.

Microsoft are reaching new lows in terms of crappy user interfaces, removal of customisation options and sending out malware as essential updates.

I'm now up to three Linux Mint computers and one Windows 7 computer (the games machine). I'd really like to stop using Windows entirely.
 
Aside from the fact that the update is also causing the OS to be downloaded on Domain machines (which is obviously some sort of stupid MS goof) the amount of rage over this is amusing. My favorite are probably the idle threats of switching to Linux. It's the "I'm gonna move to Canada if <insert politician here> is elected!" schtick all over again. Microsoft doesn't care, and your threats have no leverage with them whatsoever.
 
I moved over to Ubuntu five years ago and don't miss Windows at all. Yeah every OS has its things that piss people off, but I find the Windows things to be annoying because it doesn't seem like you can ever do anything about them. You just have to take it right up the ass.

At least if there is a problem on Linux I feel like I have some options to work around it.
 
CEpeep said:
Aside from the fact that the update is also causing the OS to be downloaded on Domain machines (which is obviously some sort of stupid MS goof) the amount of rage over this is amusing. My favorite are probably the idle threats of switching to Linux. It's the "I'm gonna move to Canada if <insert politician here> is elected!" schtick all over again. Microsoft doesn't care, and your threats have no leverage with them whatsoever.
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Uh Huh.... and "The Start Menu is never coming back so might as well just deal with it" - remember when people were saying that during Windows 8?

Fact of the matter is downloading 6GB of files that the user didn't ask for is scummy. There is no excuse for it.
This is malware/bundleware-like behavior/abuse of the WU system. WU is for updates and if it's going to be used to deliver OS *upgrades* it should not be auto downloaded.
 
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evilsofa said:
Needs more tin foil.
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Oh no doubt, brains. Just like not long ago people were swearing that what turned out to be GWX.exe nagware from MS was "tinfoil" too. And then one day it wasn't.

Meanwhile..

We at ExtremeTech haven&#8217;t seen this behavior yer &#8212; I&#8217;m still on Windows 7 myself, and my Windows Update history shows no sign of repeated failed Windows 10 installs &#8212; but one of our staffers, David Cardinal, has had his own unusual experience with Windows 10. According to David, he left on a two-week trip with an HTPC box running Windows 8.1U and came back to find it running Windows 10. Windows Update was configured to install automatically, and Microsoft has flagged Windows 10 as an important update.
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https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...o-much-it-downloads-it-for-you-without-asking
 
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DPI said:
Uh Huh.... and "The Start Menu is never coming back so might as well just deal with it" - remember when people were saying that during Windows 8.
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Those people moving to Linux (because they didn't) did nothing to change Microsoft's position. It was new management and a greater focus on UX and services. Microsoft can't sell Modern/Universal Apps to you if you won't update your OS. And they had a very difficult time selling them to desktop users because of the limited utility of the Start Screen on non-tablet devices. The Start Menu coming back is a way to make App Tiles actually useful to a desktop user. There's nothing about the Start Menu in W10 that's designed to keep you from switching to Linux, because Microsoft could not give less of a shit if you switch to Linux on your desktop. In fact, they are totally fine if you switch to Android, iOS or OS X as long as you have an Office 365 subscription.
 
michalrz said:
Okay. Enough of this shit.
I didn't really mind the 'upgrade to win 10' icon in the system tray. Really.

Seriously, I actually thought it was a pretty good idea to feed relevant OS news without having to visit Microsoft's page.
Sure, it would be nice if it went away after a while or something. But hogging my 20/1 connection at work just won't do.
And I have observed some serious network slowdowns last week.
As usual, I don't take this as granted, and my tin foil hat has a sunroof, but I'll have to sift through our workstations tomorrow and curb Windows Update's ambition a bit.
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Do you not use active directory at work? Because... Windows 10 won't auto download on a AD connected system.
 
CEpeep said:
Those people moving to Linux (because they didn't) did nothing to change Microsoft's position. It was new management and a greater focus on UX and services. Microsoft can't sell Modern/Universal Apps to you if you won't update your OS. And they had a very difficult time selling them to desktop users because of the limited utility of the Start Screen on non-tablet devices. The Start Menu coming back is a way to make App Tiles actually useful to a desktop user. There's nothing about the Start Menu in W10 that's designed to keep you from switching to Linux, because Microsoft could not give less of a shit if you switch to Linux on your desktop. In fact, they are totally fine if you switch to Android, iOS or OS X as long as you have an Office 365 subscription.
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Sure, for the people that threaten to switch to Linux, which is only a tiny minority of those not happy with Microsoft's Windows 8/10 era policies, Microsoft can ignore them. But while you seem hyperfocused on that group specifically, they're ultimately a red herring. What MS cannot do is stay locked in the Ivory tower and ignore a much larger backlash that they have once again ignited.
 
Ruoh said:
Do you not use active directory at work? Because... Windows 10 won't auto download on a AD connected system.
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It's quite possible and reasonable for that to be the case. Many businesses are small businesses, and at a point where the owner is also the IT guy. They want and need to spend their time focusing on the business part of the business. The cost involved in server(s), licensing, and training are a hard sell in this situation if your core business is not leveraging IT to make it worthwhile.

And if a 20/1 connection meets your business needs except for when your OS decides to download GBs of "stuff" without asking, then you have a problem that's impacting your business and IMO are justified in complaining.
 
I do not like this particular practice, but I don't see this necessarily as some ultra evil thing. I think it is a bad decision in general. Too many people ascribe things as "evil" or "shady" that really are just objectionable business decisions. You are already using a windows product, it's not like they are forcing you to download Windows on a Linux or Apple system because you are using IE. Now that would be shady. This is just head scratching and probably wallet impacting for Microsoft.

FLECOM said:
no it's not, I had to setup a linux desktop the other day for a special project, it took me like 4 hours to install the nvidia drivers to get multiple monitors working and even then it was super laggy on a dual quad box with 12gb ram...

believe me, I would love to run linux on my desktop since most of my servers are linux VMs, but it just sucks to use as a desktop
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Wow, really?! Strange, took me all of 20 minutes to get 4 monitors working in a Quad setup with Ubuntu and Nvidia drivers and I had old systems working with 8GB RAM max. Everything worked like a charm, including running multiple VMs on the system with a separate VM on each screen. Note: These VMs were windows desktop VMs running in VMware, the Windows VMs took up most of the resources on the system. I then took that image and applied it to 20 or so systems that worked great. These replaced the windows desktops our developers were using running Vista at the time. You may just want to do a little more searching, there is tons of information on how to do these kinds of setups.
 
Frobozz said:
It's quite possible and reasonable for that to be the case. Many businesses are small businesses, and at a point where the owner is also the IT guy. They want and need to spend their time focusing on the business part of the business. The cost involved in server(s), licensing, and training are a hard sell in this situation if your core business is not leveraging IT to make it worthwhile.

And if a 20/1 connection meets your business needs except for when your OS decides to download GBs of "stuff" without asking, then you have a problem that's impacting your business and IMO are justified in complaining.
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Even for small business, it seems to be a poor practice to automatically download updates. Even those small businesses that outsource their IT to a small mom and pop shop usually don't operate in that capacity.

That being said, I do think this is a very good reason to complain to MS. This is something they should have thought about before they decided to roll out this idea. I really wonder if they messed something up somewhere causing this to happen and now are just trying to throw a bunch of PR jargon out there to deflect from their error.
 
rezerekted said:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...ading-windows-10-to-your-machine-just-in-case

"Microsoft is downloading Windows 10 to your machine 'just in case'"

"I know of two instances where people on metered connections went over their data cap for August because of this unwanted download."

Good thing I have auto updates turned off because this happening on my PC would piss me right off. :mad:
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This was known about weeks ago.

Also, you may have auto updates turned off. But if you update and aren't looking, to eliminate the proper KB, you get the update.

And then, whether you have Auto Updates on, it downloads.
 
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