Microsoft Sells More Than 100M Windows 8 Licenses in 6 Months

pcjunkie said:
Numbers from MS are absolutely worthless when common sense tells us otherwise. How do you know MS numbers are fact?
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lol @ "common sense tells us otherwise". Translation: I don't care about reality, I want to believe what I want to believe.

If you feel the MS numbers are sketchy, sue them if you're a stockholder. A lead plaintiff could make out like a bandit. :rolleyes:
 
punisher said:
Technically, Microsoft has not lied or put out any numbers that are not true.
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Did you reply to the right post? I'm not sure what you're saying in the context of the post I quoted and replied to.
 
MacLeod said:
I don't get that. PC sales are abysmal and you can fit the people that like Metro in a phone booth yet Win8 is selling as well as Win7 that was replacing the very unpopular Vista? That doesn't make sense to me.
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What proof do you have that people that like metro fit in a phone booth, did you think of the people who aren't to lazy they cant hit 1 key to get past metro... :rolleyes: or use ClassicShell or another app..
 
Condition said:
Bottom line is Win 8 is still a shitty product. These sales figures are in all likelihood vastly inflated. And real computer people, (i.e. Sys Admins, PC Techs..) worth their salt, will probably never user Win 8. Please stop trying to justify your insecurity in buying an inferior product and just shut up.
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So is that the only reason is Metro?

Please tell me something else that sucks about windows 8?

System Admin here and well worth my weight, using windows 8 for 2 months now at home and work and i have no issues with it - windows key @ desktop done.

So.. again please explain what makes windows 8 so shitty since you apparently have extensive knowledge of the product and all of it's shortcomings... beyond metro...
 
Oh, my point was Microsoft has not technically released any "misinformation" in relation to Windows 8 sales, hence there is nothing actionable in a civil case. All we are getting is sales information, which essentially means dick. (We sure know ASUS isn't buying WIN 8).

We have no idea who those licenses were sold to, or how much they sold for. For all we know there is a shell company called "MICROSHAFT" that just bought 70 million WIN 8 licenses for a nickel a pop. Microsoft is just really being squirrely on this one.
 
All these conspiracy theories as to why the announcement of over 100 million copies of Windows 8 being shipped is meaningless! :rolleyes: Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, it seems there really is a slow but steady rise in the actual market share of Windows 8: http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-daily-20130506-20130506-bar Perhaps the tightly knit world of IT and its denizens is not truly representative of the overall market at large? Maybe regular people, you know, the ones IT guys like to sneer at, are more readily able to adapt to the changes brought about by Metro?
 
punisher said:
For all we know there is a shell company called "MICROSHAFT" that just bought 70 million WIN 8 licenses for a nickel a pop. Microsoft is just really being squirrely on this one.
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OK, my previous post to the other poster applies to you too.

To understand why such a thing is completely ridiculous, square away the license sales numbers MS just gave and Windows revenues from the prior quarter released 3 weeks ago. Windows unit revenue was flat year over year, excluding upgrade revenues, despite a steep drop in PC sales. Both taken together suggest that there has not been a major drop in Windows 8 pricing over Windows 7, and making silly conspiracy theories appear even dumber.

I have plenty of complaints about Windows 8. Metro is stupid and dumps decades of Windows paradigms in favor of pointless animations. The touch centric Start screen is a travesty. It's the wrong product for the majority of Windows users (particularly due to corporate users) and it's even wishy-washy as a tablet OS. However, I don't let my personal grievances against things I don't like about Windows 8 get in the way of looking objectively at how it's doing primarily in the consumer PC space so far. While it hasn't lead to a resurgence in PC sales (which have been dropping for over 25 months straight), it does seem to be selling decently in the shrinking market, and is accepted by many consumers who purchase systems with it installed.
 
I love how they say it's selling great, yet they don't say that it's basically impossible to buy a pre-built computer without the shitty OS. It's not like people are knocking down doors to go buy retail box copies and upgrading from something else. They fucking shove it down everyone's throats, and then cheer about how well it's selling
 
I can understand the hate for Metro if you haven't learned about pinning apps and how incredibly useful that one feature is in eliminating your need to constantly access the Start menu.

Just like the app dock on Mac OS X, having all those icons at the bottom may give a cluttered appearance, but it is quite a productivity booster.

I haven't had to go to the Start screen in over a week. Hell, I forget it's there most of the time. Right-clicking the bottom left brings up all the most commonly (and even some less commonly) used Windows administrative tools, so Windows 8 has increased my productivity, contrary to what the trolls say.

My only gripe is shutting down the computer. It's a stupid rework that requires a few more clicks than it did in the past.
 
pxc said:
lol @ "common sense tells us otherwise". Translation: I don't care about reality, I want to believe what I want to believe.

If you feel the MS numbers are sketchy, sue them if you're a stockholder. A lead plaintiff could make out like a bandit. :rolleyes:
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Holy uninformed ignorance! Do you realize that all OS sales, XP, Win7, WIin8, etc. are rolled up into the Windows division and they don't have to break them down by version. That means they can fudge the numbers to mean anything they want and the SEC can't do anything. There is nobody holding them accountable for those numbers LOL. Sold licenses doesn't mean used licenses even if it is accurate. Again, even though it must be hard please try and use common sense.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
My only gripe is shutting down the computer. It's a stupid rework that requires a few more clicks than it did in the past.
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With startisback, and maybe other start menu replacements too, you can shut down more easily.

If you don't want to add anything, Win-D, Alt-F4, Enter will shut down the OS without using the user icon sign out, then shut down menu from the log in screen.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
I can understand the hate for Metro if you haven't learned about pinning apps and how incredibly useful that one feature is in eliminating your need to constantly access the Start menu.

Just like the app dock on Mac OS X, having all those icons at the bottom may give a cluttered appearance, but it is quite a productivity booster.

I haven't had to go to the Start screen in over a week. Hell, I forget it's there most of the time. Right-clicking the bottom left brings up all the most commonly (and even some less commonly) used Windows administrative tools, so Windows 8 has increased my productivity, contrary to what the trolls say.

My only gripe is shutting down the computer. It's a stupid rework that requires a few more clicks than it did in the past.
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If you had a touch input, shutting down is crazy easy. Swipe from fright side, hit power, shut down. One step more than W7, but without I dont even know how to get the damn menu up with a regular mouse consistently. Probably because I dont have to and just use my finger.
 
pcjunkie said:
Holy uninformed ignorance!
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You never did well in mixture-type basic math problems, did you? :D

Please explain step by step how MS is faking the numbers in a down market, where (CY) Q1'12 Win 7 sales are equal to (CY) Q1'13 Win 8 + Win 7 sales (excluding Win8 upgrade sales), if Win 8 is not selling the licenses MS is claiming (Vista sales are insignificantly small in comparison to the other 2, and XP was discontinued years ago).

Throwing out a wild "fudging the numbers" accusation is just silly, and is letting a personal grudge get in the way of objective reasoning. Pointing out these things is not "uninformed ignorance". It's the complete opposite: it taking all available information and applying it to analyzing claimed Win 8 sales. Making up dumb conspiracy theories is the ignorance here.
 
pxc said:
You never did well in mixture-type basic math problems, did you? :D

Please explain step by step how MS is faking the numbers in a down market, where (CY) Q1'12 Win 7 sales are equal to (CY) Q1'13 Win 8 + Win 7 sales (excluding Win8 upgrade sales), if Win 8 is not selling the licenses MS is claiming (Vista sales are insignificantly small in comparison to the other 2, and XP was discontinued years ago).

Throwing out a wild "fudging the numbers" accusation is just silly, and is letting a personal grudge get in the way of objective reasoning. Pointing out these things is not "uninformed ignorance". It's the complete opposite: it taking all available information and applying it to analyzing claimed Win 8 sales. Making up dumb conspiracy theories is the ignorance here.
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What personal grudge? I've not thrown out any numbers. Explain to me how in the world can they be doing so good yet OEM's and pretty much everyone else says otherwise? Your analysis is using the numbers MS is giving you? Cripes they are about to do a 180 on boot to desktop and start button...how is that doing so awesome?
 
///AMG said:
If you had a touch input, shutting down is crazy easy. Swipe from fright side, hit power, shut down. One step more than W7, but without I dont even know how to get the damn menu up with a regular mouse consistently. Probably because I dont have to and just use my finger.
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You have to stick the mouse on the top or bottom right corner then mouse up. Or Win+C. I just liked how in Win7 I could go Win->R-Arrow->Enter and that would do it. Again, that's my only gripe. The OS is fast and stable. Really enjoying it.
 
Tudz said:
I haven't spent a lot of time trying to figure out the validity of this data, but anyway:



http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-200807-201305

It's a bit early to tell, but 6 months after it's release (April 2010), Windows 7 had 13.47% share of the OS market, Windows 8 only has 4.74% 6 months in (April 2013).
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Does anyone have any figures for the actual numbers making up the PC market over the years? I think everyone here will agree that Windows 7 sold like gangbusters. The question is, did those sales represent an increase of the total number of PCs in the market or did everyone throw away their old PC when they bought a new Windows 7 machine? I suspect the vast majority of those older PCs were simply relegated to lighter use and still connect to the internet today. To substantiate that claim I'll point to the vast number of Vista and XP machines still in use today. Accordingly, those hundreds of millions of Windows 7 PCs added to the total size of the PC market. The PC market is vastly larger than it was even three years ago. As a result, percentile comparisons are far from exact. A 4.74% market share in April, 2013 represents a far larger number of actual PCs than it would have done in April, 2010.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
Does anyone have any figures for the actual numbers making up the PC market over the years?
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IDC tracks unit sales per quarter. You can google historical releases. Many sites cover the numbers when they're released. For example: http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/10/idc-pc-shipments-in-q1-faced-their-steepest-drop-known-to-date/

I think the question you're asking is if a specific versions of Windows causes growth in PC sales. I don't think there's a simple answer. Economic conditions, developing market growth and a number of other factors make PC sales far more complex than just when a new OS is released. Historically there does seem to be some correlation of increased sales around the time of a new OS launch, but that could also be a product of increased marketing during the same period.
 
Actually, the question I am asking is what was the size in absolute numbers of the market StatCounter was measuring in April, 2010 as opposed to the size in absolute numbers of the market StatCounter is measuring in April, 2013. I strongly suspect that the absolute numbers have gone up substantially in the intervening years.

People don't simply throw away old PCs when they buy a new one. XP era machines can still work just fine today. The same with Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8 hardware. My argument, and feel free to prove me wrong, is that more PCs are added to the market each year than are retired from the market. Accordingly, the overall size of the market that StatCounter is measuring has increased in absolute numbers since 2010. Heck, StatCounter now even includes iOS as a part of the market it measures, something it didn't do in 2010. What this means is that much of the decrease in market share of XP and Vista isn't all because people are retiring those machines, but because people aren't buying new versions of those machines while the market itself has gotten larger. This also means that 4.5% of the market in April, 2013 represents a lot more PCs than it would have in April, 2010.
 
pxc said:
I think the question you're asking is if a specific versions of Windows causes growth in PC sales. I don't think there's a simple answer. Economic conditions, developing market growth and a number of other factors make PC sales far more complex than just when a new OS is released. Historically there does seem to be some correlation of increased sales around the time of a new OS launch, but that could also be a product of increased marketing during the same period.
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You're correct, there are lots of conditions that have an impact on PC sales and actually Windows releases often don't start off as fast as some may think. XP had a pretty rough start, 9/11, a big shift and numerous compatibility and driver issues coming from the Windows 9x world and a number of high profile security blunders that led to the famous "shutting down" of Windows development at Microsoft in early 2002. Then there was PR wreck that was Vista that also had a number of technical issues. Windows 7 as far was Windows launches go was really the first time since Windows 95 that a Windows release had a smooth and solid launch, though 7's was of a much lower profile than 95.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
Actually, the question I am asking is what was the size in absolute numbers of the market StatCounter was measuring in April, 2010 as opposed to the size in absolute numbers of the market StatCounter is measuring in April, 2013. I strongly suspect that the absolute numbers have gone up substantially in the intervening years.

People don't simply throw away old PCs when they buy a new one. XP era machines can still work just fine today. The same with Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8 hardware. My argument, and feel free to prove me wrong, is that more PCs are added to the market each year than are retired from the market. Accordingly, the overall size of the market that StatCounter is measuring has increased in absolute numbers since 2010. Heck, StatCounter now even includes iOS as a part of the market it measures, something it didn't do in 2010. What this means is that much of the decrease in market share of XP and Vista isn't all because people are retiring those machines, but because people aren't buying new versions of those machines while the market itself has gotten larger. This also means that 4.5% of the market in April, 2013 represents a lot more PCs than it would have in April, 2010.
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Roughly a billion PCs were sold in the three years before Windows 7. Of course they weren't all additive to the market. Most people are saying there's about 1.5 billion PCs online but it could be substantially more than that. The PC market I'd say is substantially larger than three years ago, just guessing on my part, say 25% to 33% percent more PCs online.

At any rate it looks like Windows 8 has gotten of to as good of a start as it realistically had a chance of having. Even without the UI controversy I don't see how the numbers would have been substantially better because the decline of PC sales is really a market problem much more than a specific version of Windows on the desktop problem.
 
I don't think anyone is suggesting PCs in use have been shrinking (yet). Gartner makes estimates for the number of PCs in use, but I'd imagine the error margins are too large to accurately extract anything from a different data source between years. Many older computers shipped to developing countries may not be connected to the Internet anymore, which could be a problem when using web site hit data as a source.

I agree with your other assessment and I've made the same point before too. 4.74% of larger installed base may not be comparable to (same or larger %) of smaller historical installed base for unit sales at least. I'm not sure if anything very interesting can be teased out of such a limited method of data collection. idrc what OS someone else is using. :p The only thing I'd want is for the PC ecosystem to be healthy. There are many benefits to that, from component pricing to software availability.
 
I guess you guys are not familiar with Software Assurance which a tonne of companies have.. Asking microsoft about statistics on sales its like asking a Fox in the Hen house how the chickens taste like.

Dilbert had it right..
Office of statistical Manipulation.


Heck a Vista purchase with SA is technicaly a windows 8 sale.

I bought over 50 Keys of 8 in the last 5 months. Are any of them windows 8 installs. Nope not a single one. All 7.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
Heck, StatCounter now even includes iOS as a part of the market it measures, something it didn't do in 2010. What this means is that much of the decrease in market share of XP and Vista isn't all because people are retiring those machines, but because people aren't buying new versions of those machines while the market itself has gotten larger. This also means that 4.5% of the market in April, 2013 represents a lot more PCs than it would have in April, 2010.
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Yeah, the StatCounter survey is kind of interesting in that it show very little use of the web by iOS and Android devices, which I guess makes sense as apps are probably the way people connect to the Net with these devices.
 
Wrench00 said:
I don't buy anything else.
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Microsoft's "licenses sold" numbers are "sell in" numbers. That means these figures include sales of licenses to OEMs, as well as Windows 8 upgrades. They don't include copies of Windows 8 sold via volume-licensing agreements. The "licenses sold" numbers may or may not also include Windows RT license numbers. (Microsoft officials won't say.)
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http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-more-than-100-million-windows-8-licenses-sold-7000014957/
 
heatlesssun said:
http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-more-than-100-million-windows-8-licenses-sold-7000014957/
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My fault didn't read the whole article. Any way. Look at the link of Vista.

Well OEM buy in bulk and you can still order 7 from Dell and other websites, do they come with a 7 COA sticket nope. They come with 8 COA downgrade sticker.

You said your self that you work for a large corporation/bank and you mentioned 300k computers do you seriously believe that the IT dept at your organization will purchase Windows 8 installed machines, highly unlikely they will be bough in bulk with OEM install of 7 yet they will come with 8 COA stickers.
 
Wrench00 said:
My fault didn't read the whole article. Any way. Look at the link of Vista.

Well OEM buy in bulk and you can still order 7 from Dell and other websites, do they come with a 7 COA sticket nope. They come with 8 COA downgrade sticker.

You said your self that you work for a large corporation/bank and you mentioned 300k computers do you seriously believe that the IT dept at your organization will purchase Windows 8 installed machines, highly unlikely they will be bough in bulk with OEM install of 7 yet they will come with 8 COA stickers.
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I'm not saying that every Windows 8 license bought is in use by any stretch of the imagination but clearly there are a lot of Windows 8 machines out there showing up on all the trackers. While the number of Windows 8 machines online isn't 100 million at this point, it's certainly a lot more than 1 to 2 million which I saw in a post on The Verge today in this story about this sales number. The number of Windows 8 machines is definitely growing at a much slower rate than 7 but the number is growing. We'll see if the rate accelerates with the introduction of Blue and new hardware later this year. I've been saying for some time that the success of Windows 8 is all about hardware. If new hardware doesn't help then Windows 8 is in a lot of trouble. And the old UI, even if were in the box right now, really wouldn't help much.
 
I had Windows 8 installed for 3 days. Couldn't stand it. Back on Windows 7.

A tablet OS is no good with a PC and mouse. All the "cool" feature are from finger swipes, etc.

Microsoft fail.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
Heck, StatCounter now even includes iOS as a part of the market it measures, something it didn't do in 2010. What this means is that much of the decrease in market share of XP and Vista isn't all because people are retiring those machines, but because people aren't buying new versions of those machines while the market itself has gotten larger. This also means that 4.5% of the market in April, 2013 represents a lot more PCs than it would have in April, 2010.
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iOS is only a small portion of StatCounter for one reason or another (might simply be that many sites that StatCounter monitor's through have mobile versions which aren't registering).

Overall, it's too early to tell from any reliable source what the actual situation is. If Microsoft's number includes OEM sales, the number is meaningless for actual install base, which is what I think most people care about and as you say, 2010 was a different market to 2013 and so StatCounter only really shows that W7 hasn't dropped at all in overall percentage since W8 came out (if people were just buying W8 machines and not using W7 on new machines, the W7 % should be dropping as W8 rises, but W8 is rising and W7 is pretty much steady, indicating people are still installing W7 on machines).
 
Tudz said:
iOS is only a small portion of StatCounter for one reason or another (might simply be that many sites that StatCounter monitor's through have mobile versions which aren't registering).

Overall, it's too early to tell from any reliable source what the actual situation is. If Microsoft's number includes OEM sales, the number is meaningless for actual install base, which is what I think most people care about and as you say, 2010 was a different market to 2013 and so StatCounter only really shows that W7 hasn't dropped at all in overall percentage since W8 came out (if people were just buying W8 machines and not using W7 on new machines, the W7 % should be dropping as W8 rises, but W8 is rising and W7 is pretty much steady, indicating people are still installing W7 on machines).
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If you're trying to count the install base, the total number of licenses sold is very important because that would be the theoretical maximum install base. So we can be pretty sure that the Windows 8 install base is probably some pretty significant number less than 100 million. If we take the average of the last monthly NetMarketshare number of around 3.8% and average it with the latest weekly StatCounter number of around 5.2% and split the difference at 4.5%, then assuming 1.5 billion PCs online worldwide we'd get about 67.5 million Windows 8 devices in service. I'm sure plenty will take issue with the math but that does seem to be a pretty reasonable count and it's significantly less than 100 million which most reasonable people would assume.

As for Windows 7 market share, that's long been excepted to hold steady and rise a bit as enterprises that were on a their path to 7 continue those migrations with the approaching death of XP. So concerning the Windows desktop businesses will go to 7, consumers will move 8 and XP and Vista will fall of a cliff over the next year though both will register for years to come no doubt.
 
Where did you get the 1.5 billion PCs number from?
 
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