Microsoft Posts Its Worst-Ever Quarterly Surface Loss

pcjunkie said:
"Continued losses will make it harder and harder for Microsoft to keep the Surface project going, so a good performance in the next quarter or two will be critical to justifying its continued existence,” Dawson added. "My sense is that [Satya] Nadella is less willing to accept losses than was [Steve] Ballmer.
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Ah, analyst, never really did trust them much. I figure they were the ones who also predicted AMD's demise.
 
ManofGod said:
Ah, analyst, never really did trust them much. I figure they were the ones who also predicted AMD's demise.
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Yeah we all trust your opinion much more...I bet they are just haters as well right? It's not like they had previous numbers or anything to base it off right...oh, wait! :rolleyes:
 
ManofGod said:
I can understand that but, I am going to go out on a limb and say you probably would not buy an Apple product then either. (I like their stuff but cannot afford it either.)
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My wife owns a brand new macbook air (happy wife happy life ;)) and I own an iPad 2 from like 3 years ago.

I have an approx ~1.5 year old Windows laptop and a Samsung tablet that suits my needs just fine for now. If I were actually in need of a new laptop and/tablet, the SP3 would definitely be a consideration. I was just saying that I don't think it's something that most people would go out of their way to immediately upgrade to if their current platform is still running. I think it will take a while for the market to build for that reason. Most of my work is done on a (considerably more powerful) desktop workstation anyway.
 
Too expensive for a tablet, too flimsy for a laptop. It wants to be tablet and laptop but fails to combine with greatness. Not unlike Windows 8: tried to be a tablet OS and desktop OS at the same time, but only pissed off longtime Windows users, and Metro didn't capture the attention of tablet/smartphone buyers.

On top of it, trying to be greedy like Apple by making Metro a closed, walled garden forgot its roots of openness and allowing developers and users to develop and install whatever they want without Microsoft's permission. Problem is Microsoft will never be Apple, just like GM will never be Honda.
 
I'd rather buy a high quality MS laptop with a clean fully ready out of the box build on it.
 
Yup, people don't want overpriced tablets and if they do, they're gonna go get an iPad. If they want a useful computer, they'll buy a laptop with competitive specs for like $500. They they want cheapo stuff and don't mind Google spying on they, then they'll get an Android device. There's just no room in the market for the Surface stuff when it doesn't do anything that the things it competes against don't already do a lot better for less money.
 
Grahamkracka said:
My wife owns a brand new macbook air (happy wife happy life ;)) and I own an iPad 2 from like 3 years ago.

I have an approx ~1.5 year old Windows laptop and a Samsung tablet that suits my needs just fine for now. If I were actually in need of a new laptop and/tablet, the SP3 would definitely be a consideration. I was just saying that I don't think it's something that most people would go out of their way to immediately upgrade to if their current platform is still running. I think it will take a while for the market to build for that reason. Most of my work is done on a (considerably more powerful) desktop workstation anyway.
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I see, that's cool. :D :) I personally find that laptops are of no more use for myself. If I am onsite and need something, the Surface RT I have will fill the bill for just about everything with the usb network adapter I have. Otherwise, I have a powerful desktop at work for everything I do there and the one at home I am typing on right now.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yup, people don't want overpriced tablets and if they do, they're gonna go get an iPad. If they want a useful computer, they'll buy a laptop with competitive specs for like $500. They they want cheapo stuff and don't mind Google spying on they, then they'll get an Android device. There's just no room in the market for the Surface stuff when it doesn't do anything that the things it competes against don't already do a lot better for less money.
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Cool, show me the $500 laptop with the 1440p screen and SSD with 9 hours of battery life. Also, it has to be less the 2 pounds, have a touch screen and the ability to write on the screen.
 
DPI said:
Too expensive for a tablet, too flimsy for a laptop. It wants to be tablet and laptop but fails to combine with greatness. Not unlike Windows 8: tried to be a tablet OS and desktop OS at the same time, but only pissed off longtime Windows users, and Metro didn't capture the attention of tablet/smartphone buyers.

On top of it, trying to be greedy like Apple by making Metro a closed, walled garden forgot its roots of openness and allowing developers and users to develop and install whatever they want without Microsoft's permission. Problem is Microsoft will never be Apple, just like GM will never be Honda.
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Flimsy, ahahahahahahahaha. Try dropping that laptop on the ground, smash, tinkle, tinkle. I have unintentionally dropped my Surface RT and not a single scratch, dent or crack. Oh well, the amazing thing is that what works for you is not what everyone else would want.

Oh well.:rolleyes:
 
ManofGod said:
Cool, show me the $500 laptop with the 1440p screen and SSD with 9 hours of battery life. Also, it has to be less the 2 pounds, have a touch screen and the ability to write on the screen.
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I'll only do so right after you show me a tablet with the ability to hold itself over it's physical keyboard at infinitely variable angles without needing your hand or a bunch of Russian nesting eggs to prop it up.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I'll only do so right after you show me a tablet with the ability to hold itself over it's physical keyboard at infinitely variable angles without needing your hand or a bunch of Russian nesting eggs to prop it up.
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Yeah, that is what I thought. :rolleyes: Oh well, continue trolling, you are quite good at it.
 
ManofGod said:
Yeah, that is what I thought. :rolleyes: Oh well, continue trolling, you are quite good at it.
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:) I can do that!

Though seriously, less $300 will get you a laptop with a lot more hard drive space and a much better interface for typing books and junk than you can get with the Surface Pro. There's just no way for a tablet to compete when the keyboard attachment alone costs like half the price of a laptop and that's only so you can equal it's speed at typing.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dell-Blac...d-Drive-and-Windows-8.1-DVD-CD-DRIVE/37065080
 
I cannot fathom why if they're advertising the thing everywhere as a laptop replacement and always show it with the keyboard, why on earth they don't eat the cost of that stupid keyboard and include it with every unit - and not indefinitely but at least for a good year or at least until the product gets off the ground.

Anyhoo, there's a bigger symbolic issue here: is Microsoft can't get their hybrid tablets to sell, the OEMs have to be looking at this and wondering why they should jump on board.
 
It would seem Windows8, Xbone and this tablet thing are not being received as well as they hoped. I personally am not interested in any of them but, I still enjoy the majority of Microsoft's previous products.

Hopefully things change "again" at Microsoft.
 
ManofGod said:
Nah, it is just people such as yourself banging the I HATE MICROSOFT drum all the time that is the problem. Then people try it for themselves and low and behold, they end up liking it!
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97% of people who try Microsoft products end up buying Android or iOS devices.
 
And these are the threads which quickly weed out those who are just blindly hating and raging against something vs those who actually have used and understand what it is and is not good for. Certain people in this thread tend to be so loud and so wrong that it makes it hard for those of us who have valid complaints in other topics.

So as a well known Win 8 metro hater I will add to this.

Honestly I am a bit disappointed in reading this albeit not terribly surprised. The reality is most people flatly don't understand the niche that the Surface was trying to create and this thread is proof of that. Simply put the Surface was NEVER meant to compete with the iPad, if you think a surface pro compares to a apple or android tablet you are woefully ignorant. It isn't a tablet in the traditional sense in being a 100% consumption device only. While it certainly isn't a laptop in being a reasonable content creation device. Honestly comparing iPads and Androids to it just isn't, unless you are talking about the RT and I doubt anyone would argue that thing wasn't a complete pos.

You see, the Surface Doesn't replace a laptop or a desktop. It instead augments them. This allows users like myself who have to use a large laptop because of hardware requirements (raid, built in 3g etc) access to a Windows device that is extremely portable. It doesn't replace the laptop and frankly anyone who thinks it does simply never needed a real laptop to begin with, just buy yourself an ultrabook and shutup.

Here is a good example of how i work and how thousands like me work. I don't go to an office everyday, I travel to where the job is and it could be anywhere. So while my desktop remains my primary device for productivity, it isn't exactly portable. Now due to the above requirements, the laptop i need isn't one of those little thin things that while cool, aren't practical for someone who needs at least "MOST" of the power of the desktop and still the ability to have extensive data protection, things like serial ports and more importantly a screen I can actually see. So this of course yields a pretty heavy laptop but it also has an important flaw. It isn't easy "walking around" with the laptop taking pictures, dragging them into a program with a mouse with no table. That is where the tablet comes in, built in camera, ability to quickly migrate data between the devices, and the ability to manipulate the data while walking. Also, metro on a tablet is just fine, still ugly yes but it works just fine.

So Sure, if you are nothing more than a cube farm worker where a tablet is really nothing more than a toy to you anyhow, obviously the Surface is something you don't understand. In your case then yes, you wouldn't see the massive difference between a tablet and a Surface. iPad and android tablets are "Content Consumption" devices only. They are great little toys for that and yes I do own one and like it for exactly what it is. However it is not in any way shape or form what a surface pro is and nor is a surface pro a laptop replacement.
 
Pretty sure almost no one is saying otherwise. But don't let that discount your effort climbing up on that pedestal. Hope patting yourself on the back up there feels real swell.
 
I have to say i won a surface pro 2 and i love it however i find that i am back to my desktop. I dont know what it is i just like my computer way more. I think the fad of the tablets is dying.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
And these are the threads which quickly weed out those who are just blindly hating and raging against something vs those who actually have used and understand what it is and is not good for. Certain people in this thread tend to be so loud and so wrong that it makes it hard for those of us who have valid complaints in other topics.

So as a well known Win 8 metro hater I will add to this.

Honestly I am a bit disappointed in reading this albeit not terribly surprised. The reality is most people flatly don't understand the niche that the Surface was trying to create and this thread is proof of that. Simply put the Surface was NEVER meant to compete with the iPad, if you think a surface pro compares to a apple or android tablet you are woefully ignorant...
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Microsoft's own statement's and advertising contradict this. They were selling it as a mobile iPad-sized desktop replacement.

I understand that Surface has value to a small niche of users who need a tablet with a good CPU and/or excellent handwriting recognition. The question that myself and others have is why Microsoft seems to have put no effort in competing in the real tablet market of cheap content consumption devices while simultaneously betting the farm on touch. Even Windows RT devices were $600+ at launch. These products were doomed to be an embarrassing failure on their own. Windows 8/touch on the desktop turned out to be a gimmick and these expensive tablets aren't selling. Most people don't need or want a portable desktop that costs more than their regular desktop.

You see, the Surface Doesn't replace a laptop or a desktop. It instead augments them. This allows users like myself who have to use a large laptop because of hardware requirements (raid, built in 3g etc) access to a Windows device that is extremely portable...
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They said the same thing about netbooks, and at least netbooks had the advantage of being cheap.

Here is a good example of how i work and how thousands like me work. I don't go to an office everyday, I travel to where the job is and it could be anywhere. So while my desktop remains my primary device for productivity, it isn't exactly portable. Now due to the above requirements, the laptop i need isn't one of those little thin things that while cool, aren't practical for someone who needs at least "MOST" of the power of the desktop and still the ability to have extensive data protection, things like serial ports and more importantly a screen I can actually see. So this of course yields a pretty heavy laptop but it also has an important flaw. It isn't easy "walking around" with the laptop taking pictures, dragging them into a program with a mouse with no table. That is where the tablet comes in, built in camera, ability to quickly migrate data between the devices, and the ability to manipulate the data while walking. Also, metro on a tablet is just fine, still ugly yes but it works just fine.
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Unless you're doing work that actually needs i5/i7 CPU power and good handwriting recognition I'm not seeing the need for an expensive surface device. I do think there would be a worthwhile market for low-cost, low power Microsoft tablets that support office and other business features in addition to being content consumption devices.
 
BladeVenom said:
If you want the link, http://blogs.strategyanalytics.com/...f-Global-Smartphone-Shipments-in-Q2-2014.aspx

Smartphone Market Share:
Android 84.6%
Apple iOS 11.9%
Microsoft 2.7%

Almost no one wants Microsoft products if they have a choice.
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Remember the IDC's wacky predictions for Windows Phone going back to 2011?

chart_smartphone_market.top.gif


The IDC persisted in this fantasy in 2012 by predicting Windows Phone to hit 19.2% by 2016, and dialed the crazy back a bit in 2013 by predicting 10% for 2017.

Now for the cold dash of reality: we've seen Windows Phone market share go from 5.5% in 2011 to 5.2% in 2012, to 3.9% in 2013, and to 2.7% in 2014. Buying Nokia was supposed to be a magic bullet that would take Windows Phone to 20%, but who believes that now, when Android took all of Nokia's share, all of Blackberry's, a bit of Apple's, and half of Windows Phone's?
 
I do not believe that the Windows Phone will be abandoned. (They seem to think more long term than they used too.) However, even if that were to happen, I would buy an iPhone before I would ever buy a Google / Android data mining piece of crap.
 
ManofGod said:
I do not believe that the Windows Phone will be abandoned. (They seem to think more long term than they used too.) However, even if that were to happen, I would buy an iPhone before I would ever buy a Google / Android data mining piece of crap.
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Oh, and I just bought an Surface 2 for $299 and sold my Surface RT. Guess "nobody" wants them. (Of course, some of my friends will say I am a nobody but.... :D )
 
Hahahah wasn't everyone saying Surface is outselling the iPad too? Microsoft can't do anything right these days and this new idiot CEO won't change anything.
 
Threads like this are irritating. It shows how narrow minded and clueless a number of users are on here when it comes to certain companies.

Truth is, yes, there are alternative to Microsofts products, including their software. And the truth is those alternatives are never as good as the microsoft solution, its not there they have no choice, its that the competitive choice really isn't all that competitive. There are open source office solutions, there are open source email clients, but they never stack up to Microsoft products in terms of overall functionality, im sick people saying that there are no alternative and you have "no choice" but to use Microsoft, its flat out, and straight up lie.

As for the surface, yes similarly "specced" products can be found for cheaper. But why are we all of a sudden taking build quality and form factor out of the equation? MSI for example, sells a GT 60 and a GS60, The latter being an identical spec (aside from a $60 SSD in the GS60 that isn't in the GT60), but is thinner and lighter and priced at almost FOUR HUNDRED MORE than the GT60.

You pay a premium for build and form factor that has ALWAYS been the case. This so called 'tech' forum is turning into nothing but a bunch of whiny clueless little shills.
 
Also for the record, i have yet to see a single Negative review of windows phone 8 or windows phone 8.1. Which proves that their lack of sales are in no reason due to quality. Its because people are so sold on crappy software like android (which is disgustingly slow being flash based) and do not want to change.
 
Kueller said:
SP3 is an outstanding device overall and would be a home run except for the prices $1129/128GB and $1429/256GB? OUCH! Those $130 keyboards are killers. You can buy a stand alone tablet for $130 and equivalently spec'd laptop for $500.
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The company I work for is considering ordering a fleet of Surface Pro 3's for our sales staff to replace the iPad's they use now. Money-be-damned, they LOVE the functionality they offer and the fact that signatures actually come out picture-perfect every time.

Their one reservation? They need LTE support... and Microsoft has continually failed to provide a Surface Pro with 3G / LTE functionality. That one missing feature is losing them some BIG contracts.
 
evilsofa said:
Now for the cold dash of reality: we've seen Windows Phone market share go from 5.5% in 2011 to 5.2% in 2012, to 3.9% in 2013, and to 2.7% in 2014.
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Sounds like you're using combined Windows Mobile + Windows Phone numbers.

Windows Mobile has been dropping like a rock and becoming extinct, Windows Phone has actually ben selling fairly well (but not as fast as Windows Mobile has been vanishing). Using a combined number doesn't show what's actually going on.
 
ManofGod said:
I do not believe that the Windows Phone will be abandoned. (They seem to think more long term than they used too.) However, even if that were to happen, I would buy an iPhone before I would ever buy a Google / Android data mining piece of crap.
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You don't think Apple is data mining? Your naive view of the world is so cute. Everything is mining you...get over it.
 
ManofGod said:
I do not believe that the Windows Phone will be abandoned. (They seem to think more long term than they used too.) However, even if that were to happen, I would buy an iPhone before I would ever buy a Google / Android data mining piece of crap.
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Well they did it before. I had my whole company on Windows Mobile devices (Moto Q, etc) because I believed in MS, in an environment where I had fought a lot of resistance and execs that had wanted Palms and BB's. And then MS got a decent level of marketshare, became complacent and stopped innovating and effectively abandoned it.

So naively believe MS won't "abandon" it, but been there/done that/never again for me.
 
Trepidati0n said:
You don't think Apple is data mining? Your naive view of the world is so cute. Everything is mining you...get over it.
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Not naïve, I think think Android is crap. Google hooks you on their "free" stuff and they have you. :rolleyes:
 
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