Microsoft opens up its store to 3'rd party storefronts

d3athf1sh

Gawd
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
958
DON'T DO IT!!! you won't be able to download/run your purchase unless you use a MS LOGIN and have all your BS TPM module enabled, etc. etc.

steam and open source FTW (and i didn't even start using steam till i had to, but they are the best thing going now for games)
 

LukeTbk

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
2,339
The nuance is small if you still need to install the epic and others launcher anyway.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
5,779
The nuance is small if you still need to install the epic and others launcher anyway.
I am going to give it a shot, but if I understand some of the posts it will let you use the one store as an overlay to all the others, so you can purchase them from where ever you want (Microsoft doesn't take a cut from them) but you could use the one location as a launcher for the rest.
 

LukeTbk

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
2,339
so you can purchase them from where ever you want (Microsoft doesn't take a cut from them)
The article did seem to indicate otherwise, 88%-12% if you use microsoft payment, not specified but said that they take 0% if you use your own payment system do not apply for games:

Microsoft Store, including allowing developers to keep 100 percent of the revenue from their apps if they use their own payment platform (unless it is a game).

If unlike many other case, that make it possible to not install epic and other at all (or not be aware of it, having to enter anything in it and launch silently in background when you launch the game), it could be interesting.
 

rinaldo00

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
1,863
I am going to give it a shot, but if I understand some of the posts it will let you use the one store as an overlay to all the others, so you can purchase them from where ever you want (Microsoft doesn't take a cut from them) but you could use the one location as a launcher for the rest.
GOG GALAXY 2.0 does that much better
Connect GOG GALAXY 2.0 with multiple platforms and unite all your games and friends scattered across them in one powerful app.
https://www.gog.com/galaxy
 

Whalter12

n00b
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
31
I have 3 games from the Microsoft Store, they all work fine, but I would not want to use the Microsoft Store for anything else. I can get the free Epic games on their website I don't need a different store/location to access them.
The nuance is small if you still need to install the epic and others launcher anyway.
You don't have to use the Epic launcher at all if you use a program called Legendary. It's a command line interface program, but it was simple enough to just create short cuts to the different games installed and store them in a single folder.
 

Kongar

Gawd
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
740
The MS store is garbage. Not because of stupid stuff - but due to legitimate failures in software installations. Repeatedly. There are so many examples of games that install, then like delete themselves, or don't run properly, and have all kinds of permission problems.

Seriously, it's still an ongoing issue, whereas steam just... works.
/shrug
 

sc5mu93

Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
868
The MS store is garbage. Not because of stupid stuff - but due to legitimate failures in software installations. Repeatedly. There are so many examples of games that install, then like delete themselves, or don't run properly, and have all kinds of permission problems.

Seriously, it's still an ongoing issue, whereas steam just... works.
/shrug
this has been my experience as well. my kids have some games (Minecraft Dungeons, etc) that just stop working, and will not work, until you uninstall and reinstall. Very frustrating.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
32,331
I don't see the point of this? Why would anybody not go to the source to download these things? You're just adding a middleman for absolutely no reason. Windows isn't a walled garden like Apple phones.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
3,839
I don't see the point of this? Why would anybody not go to the source to download these things? You're just adding a middleman for absolutely no reason. Windows isn't a walled garden like Apple phones.
A lot of this is for show. Microsoft wants to set itself up as a foil for Apple (never mind that it's superficial), and allowing third-party store clients gives that appearance without having to put in much extra work. And, of course, it promotes the Microsoft Store.

That's the sad bit. There are likely people out there who've taken the bait and think Microsoft is striking a mighty blow against Apple when it's really just launching a marketing ploy. You can already install third-party app stores on Macs; there's no point to going through the Microsoft Store on Windows; Epic intentionally self-sabotaged on iOS, not the Mac.
 

Ididar

Gawd
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
622
A lot of this is for show. Microsoft wants to set itself up as a foil for Apple (never mind that it's superficial), and allowing third-party store clients gives that appearance without having to put in much extra work. And, of course, it promotes the Microsoft Store.

That's the sad bit. There are likely people out there who've taken the bait and think Microsoft is striking a mighty blow against Apple when it's really just launching a marketing ploy. You can already install third-party app stores on Macs; there's no point to going through the Microsoft Store on Windows; Epic intentionally self-sabotaged on iOS, not the Mac.

Eh. I see it more as a pre-emptive strike against regulators. They see regulators around the world looking at Apple and Google's storefronts and wanting to regulate them. I see this as Microsoft saying to those regulators "look at us, we'll let anyone in, we don't care" so when they start writing rules they overlook Microsoft who has been, historically, a big target of theirs.
 

LukeTbk

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
2,339
You don't have to use the Epic launcher at all if you use a program called Legendary. It's a command line interface program, but it was simple enough to just create short cuts to the different games installed and store them in a single folder.
I use some program to have a single launching point, but I feel I still had to install them (sometime the game itself will install it like the Rockstar launcher even if you buy it on steam), does your game will update without the epic launcher ?
 

LukeTbk

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
2,339
I don't see the point of this? Why would anybody not go to the source to download these things? You're just adding a middleman for absolutely no reason. Windows isn't a walled garden like Apple phones.
Why would anybody go to the source to download anything if they do not have to (if something is on winget or APT on linux do you go to the source instead of using those one tool-place for all ?, if a game is on steam on the same price than the developper website do you to the source or use steam ?) The giant popularity of the steam, itunes of the world do show people are not interested to go to individual people website to do individual transaction instead of a managed single store has much has possible, which is much more conformtable fast and easier for the consumer.

Having a single place where you entered a credit card instead of multiple, not having to install launcher, etc.... would have be plus.

If you still need Epic Launcher installed and so on, then yes it is not obvious the big plus.
 
Last edited:

Newbie_52

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
216
hmm, if it means I don't have to use epic or amazon launcher, and the game folders arent protected and inaccessible like some Ms store games, then I might be interested.

i wonder if you can use xbox/MS gift cards to buy these games? Cash in bing rewards for gift cards and get free games other than the ones limited to the windows store currently might be nice.
 

jardows

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
2,163
this has been my experience as well. my kids have some games (Minecraft Dungeons, etc) that just stop working, and will not work, until you uninstall and reinstall. Very frustrating.
Some people weren't using computers in the 1990's and it shows.

For those who don't know, it used to be fairly common to have to uninstall programs and re-install after they stopped working for no apparent reason. Modern programs don't seem as vulnerable, but I still have plenty of opportunities to do this, so it isn't a fault exclusive to the Microsoft store. And to preempt the haters, I've had to do this regularly (though with less frequency lately) on Mac, Windows, Linux, and BSD. Some programs are just written buggy.
 

sc5mu93

Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
868
Some people weren't using computers in the 1990's and it shows.

For those who don't know, it used to be fairly common to have to uninstall programs and re-install after they stopped working for no apparent reason. Modern programs don't seem as vulnerable, but I still have plenty of opportunities to do this, so it isn't a fault exclusive to the Microsoft store. And to preempt the haters, I've had to do this regularly (though with less frequency lately) on Mac, Windows, Linux, and BSD. Some programs are just written buggy.
our experience is unique to MS store. Usually with an update to a game. Really haven't had ANY issue like this for the past 10-15 years. Steam updates games/dlc fine in my experience. I also had lots of experience in the 90s, and dont miss those days. As for the past 10-15 years - i thought the problem was solved.
 

LukeTbk

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
2,339
Steam updates games/dlc fine in my experience. I also had lots of experience in the 90s, and dont miss those days. As for the past 10-15 years - i thought the problem was solved.
I felt I had more issue on the PS3 and 4 during that windows than with a stream title (could just be misremembering-surprise shock than reality, but that my impression has well).
 

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
8,789
I've bought some games on the MS Store. Like Gears of War Remaster and Crackdown 3. For the most part it was fine.

One problem I had was that the download manager is pretty basic. I remember I started downloading a large game, then realized it was going to the wrong hard drive.

So I stopped the download, switched the download location and tried to start the download again. But it didn't work, it got stuck forever. Had to look online for a way to delete the old temp files and reset it.

Not a huge hassle, and I got it working in the end, but it seemed like a basic feature that should work.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
3,839
Eh. I see it more as a pre-emptive strike against regulators. They see regulators around the world looking at Apple and Google's storefronts and wanting to regulate them. I see this as Microsoft saying to those regulators "look at us, we'll let anyone in, we don't care" so when they start writing rules they overlook Microsoft who has been, historically, a big target of theirs.
That's a fair point, too. Odds are it's both!
 

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
8,789
Okay, so you can open the Microsoft Store, download the Epic Game Store, then within Epic Game Store, download the Itch.io Store, then download Sisterly Lust. LOL.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,190
A lot of this is for show. Microsoft wants to set itself up as a foil for Apple (never mind that it's superficial), and allowing third-party store clients gives that appearance without having to put in much extra work. And, of course, it promotes the Microsoft Store.
And as usual, they're about a decade late. Windows 8 could've begun an era of a Windows Store that functioned like a linux repository, to slowly get users used to the idea of all their software in one place. An open garden at first, and then they could've tightened the noose over time. The Bill Gates era Microsoft understood this tactic.

Instead they squandered an entire decade, years wasted chasing a long departed mobile train by attempting to force desktop users to use shitty Metro/mobile apps on the desktop, in some goofy scheme they actually believed would somehow make users to buy shitty windows phones.

Now? Satya Nadella might as well be banging a pot on his head with a wooden spoon for all the difference hosting "third party apps" is going to make. Enjoy!
 
Last edited:

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
8,789
To be fair, the Surface line of 2-in-1's are actually pretty decent and do fulfill the idea of desktop and mobile converging. But that is just about the only thing MS has done right in a while.
 

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
8,789
Yeah the Windows Phones were okay, it was just too late. Had they launched sooner and had better app support they may have had a chance.

And, even so, it's kind of hard to enter the market as a third player in a two horse race.
 

Whalter12

n00b
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
31
I use some program to have a single launching point, but I feel I still had to install them (sometime the game itself will install it like the Rockstar launcher even if you buy it on steam), does your game will update without the epic launcher ?
If a game has an update it will tell you when you try to launch it. Then I just go into the command line and run the update. I have the Epic Launcher installed on my computer but haven't opened it once since I started using Legendary. Having said that time to uninstall the launcher...
Some people weren't using computers in the 1990's and it shows.

For those who don't know, it used to be fairly common to have to uninstall programs and re-install after they stopped working for no apparent reason. Modern programs don't seem as vulnerable, but I still have plenty of opportunities to do this, so it isn't a fault exclusive to the Microsoft store. And to preempt the haters, I've had to do this regularly (though with less frequency lately) on Mac, Windows, Linux, and BSD. Some programs are just written buggy.
I can't remember ever having to uninstall and reinstall a program to get it working for no reason that's from the first 386 I used to now. The only time I have had to do anything like this was last month after forced Windows and Office updates that killed Winamp and Irfanview. That was 100% Microsoft breaking those programs so the reason was fully apparent.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,190
Yeah the Windows Phones were okay, it was just too late. Had they launched sooner and had better app support they may have had a chance.

And, even so, it's kind of hard to enter the market as a third player in a two horse race.
You're rewriting history here. Microsoft was in mobile before both Apple and Google. Yes there was Palm, Blackberry and some other shit but MS had massive first mover advantage, only to squander it all with arena sized arrogance and complacency- they hung back and coasted as a pit-stained Ballmer danced around on stages in a terrifying "invisible hoola hoop" sort of display.

Then when you factor the total lack of effort that went into any of the MS firstparty mobile/metro apps - front and center should have been a godlike mobile MS Office to rule them all and show third parties how its done- you have to wonder if MS ever actually wanted to compete at all.
 
Last edited:

LukeTbk

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
2,339
But that is just about the only thing MS has done right in a while.
https://www.crn.com/news/cloud/aws-...e-how-partners-rank-the-big-3-cloud-companies
Survey respondents awarded Microsoft Azure with the highest overall satisfaction rating—giving it first-place finishes in product capabilities, profitability and maturity of pricing.

Meanwhile, AWS ranked No. 2 overall, winning the highest ratings in ease of integration and support for demand generation. Google Cloud, ranked No. 3 in the survey, garnered no first-place finishes.
There’s a good reason that Microsoft edged out its rivals in the survey results, according to Reed Wiedower, global alliances leader and CTO for the Cognizant Microsoft Business Group, a Microsoft Gold partner and Azure Expert MSP.
“Their partner programs are much more mature,” Wiedower said. “Microsoft has just been in the business of partners for much longer than Amazon or Google.”



https://www.channelfutures.com/best...oud-users-extremely-satisfied-during-pandemic
The data – and the question prompted by it – comes from SPR. The Chicago-based digital consultancy, and Microsoft and Amazon Web Services partner, interviewed 800 people to uncover the findings in “Building A Resilient Cloud.” Respondents consisted of 400 IT decision-makers and 400 IT line-of-business employees.

Of those, Azure came in with the highest percentage of “extremely satisfied” users (72%). However, AWS trailed closely at 71%. And Google Cloud, which featured the lowest adoption rate among respondents, came in at 57%.
 

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
8,789
You're rewriting history here. Microsoft was in mobile before both Apple and Google.
Yes, I am fully aware. I actually had one of these back in the day.

F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F5-qT5TnjRdE%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg


I was commenting on the modern smartphone market and Windows Mobile. But you are correct that Microsoft was basically first (if you don't count experiments like Newton).

Thing is, it wasn't practical. Yes, you could make calls, there were drawing and note-taking apps and a calculator and some basic games, but it just wasn't very usable.

They didn't understand mobile design (well no one did until Apple invented it). Microsoft just didn't have the user experience / graphic design kind of chops to pull it off.
 

cybereality

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
8,789
Survey respondents awarded Microsoft Azure with the highest overall satisfaction rating—giving it first-place finishes in product capabilities, profitability and maturity of pricing.
Yeah, Azure is more of a B2B thing. I was talking about the consumer market. MS is still doing great financially, so no questions there. It's just that they have problems innovating and keeping up with the times.

But the Surface is a genuinely solid product. In terms of the design, fit, finish, it is on equal footing with Apple. And that dual screen phone thing is pretty cool, I tested it at Best Buy. So they are trying at least.
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
12,647
And as usual, they're about a decade late. Windows 8 could've begun an era of a Windows Store that functioned like a linux repository, to slowly get users used to the idea of all their software in one place. An open garden at first, and then they could've tightened the noose over time. The Bill Gates era Microsoft understood this tactic.

Instead they squandered an entire decade, years wasted chasing a long departed mobile train by attempting to force desktop users to use shitty Metro/mobile apps on the desktop, in some goofy scheme they actually believed would somehow make users to buy shitty windows phones.

Now? Satya Nadella might as well be banging a pot on his head with a wooden spoon for all the difference hosting "third party apps" is going to make. Enjoy!

Windows Phones were not crappy.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,190
I was commenting on the modern smartphone market and Windows Mobile. But you are correct that Microsoft was basically first (if you don't count experiments like Newton).

Thing is, it wasn't practical. Yes, you could make calls, there were drawing and note-taking apps and a calculator and some basic games, but it just wasn't very usable.

Correct, I was only questioning the excuse we've been hearing for years that "Microsoft couldn't break into the mobile market cuz Google and Apple already dominate it". That's revisionist when Microsoft was there first, it was their game to lose.

A Motorola Q running Windows Mobile >5< (already 5 iterations, the lineage started in 2000) came out in 2006, the first iPhone wasn't announced until 2007. That Windows Mobile wasn't as practical as an iPhone was Microsoft's problem - they dropped the ball. And their outdated, 90's and 2000's era playbook of "mediocre software is okay if you have a monopoly" didn't translate to the mobile market.
 
Last edited:

1_rick

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
2,669
That's revisionist when Microsoft was there first, it was their game to lose.
Yeah. Before Windows Phone, there was Windows Mobile, and they were selling phones as early as, what, 2003 or 2004? And they were actually pretty good, although Microsoft *really* fumbled by first pulling a Netscape, switching from Mobile to Phone, and then taking forever to bring new features to Phone (not to mention the lack of apps).
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
6,232
Yeah. Before Windows Phone, there was Windows Mobile, and they were selling phones as early as, what, 2003 or 2004? And they were actually pretty good, although Microsoft *really* fumbled by first pulling a Netscape, switching from Mobile to Phone, and then taking forever to bring new features to Phone (not to mention the lack of apps).
As someone who used Windows Mobile Phone in the past, it was more than just taking too long. A lot of those devices never got updates, but plenty of people made roms for them that did update the devices. People were making phone roms long before Android. My old HTC TyTN II didn't even have working 3D acceleration and required custom roms to make use of it. It had ATI Imageon in it but no freaking drivers. I eventually put Android on it which helped improve it's performance massively.

When Microsoft did release Windows Phone OS, it wasn't open source and wasn't as good as Android. Microsoft has a habit of watching the industry move forward while watching their products sit still. This happened to Internet Explorer and Windows Mobile. The problem with the Windows Store is that it also sat for too long and did nothing to improve it. It wasn't a repository system like Linux has where anyone could upload applications and games onto. I've been using Chocolatey for Windows for a long time, and now they're implementing a repository system for Windows 11. As for Microsoft allowing other stores to sell on their store for free is a mistake. You don't want to do that because it's going to get users hooked onto their store and they'll only buy from there. Much like how some people only use Steam and not other stores for convenience.
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
10,948
As for Microsoft allowing other stores to sell on their store for free is a mistake. You don't want to do that because it's going to get users hooked onto their store and they'll only buy from there. Much like how some people only use Steam and not other stores for convenience.

I'm pretty sure that the #1 reason why they are allowing 3rd party stores is to help get them a jump-start offering Android apps when Android app support comes to Windows 11 soon. They are mainly trying to avoid a chicken-or-the-egg scenario where Windows 11 supports Android apps, but no common Android apps can be found because no one makes Android apps for the Windows store, and so the whole idea collapses. Amazon has a huge Android app library, without the vested interest in promoting the Android OS that Google has. Amazon gets to increase the popularity of their app store and Microsoft gets a huge jump-start into offering Android apps using an established Android App ecosystem. It's a win-win for both companies.

When it comes to other stores like Steam, Origin, etc (that mainly offer games, not android apps)... Well, you can already install these stores on Windows. Having them more integrated into the Microsoft Store doesn't really change much in the end.
 

DukenukemX

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
6,232
I'm pretty sure that the #1 reason why they are allowing 3rd party stores is to help get them a jump-start offering Android apps when Android app support comes to Windows 11 soon. They are mainly trying to avoid a chicken-or-the-egg scenario where Windows 11 supports Android apps, but no common Android apps can be found because no one makes Android apps for the Windows store, and so the whole idea collapses. Amazon has a huge Android app library, without the vested interest in promoting the Android OS that Google has. Amazon gets to increase the popularity of their app store and Microsoft gets a huge jump-start into offering Android apps using an established Android App ecosystem. It's a win-win for both companies.

When it comes to other stores like Steam, Origin, etc (that mainly offer games, not android apps)... Well, you can already install these stores on Windows. Having them more integrated into the Microsoft Store doesn't really change much in the end.
Unless Microsoft is planning to make their own Android OS that is compatible with Android apps. That would be smart but Microsoft doesn't do smart. The purpose of supporting Android apps is to get more people onto the Windows OS. The whole purpose Microsoft is allowing the sale of apps through their store using other launchers is to get people hooked in the Windows Store. Once people are comfortable with using Windows and it's app store I'm sure Microsoft will change things in their favor. Once Windows becomes the dominate mobile OS then Android support is going to bitrot. Once enough people use Windows Store over other stores then Microsoft will charge fees to 3rd party launchers. Windows Mobile maybe dead but it's not like Microsoft hasn't tried to push Windows into a tablet OS like with Windows 8. Windows 11 is Microsoft trying again, but with more feeling.
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
10,948
Unless Microsoft is planning to make their own Android OS that is compatible with Android apps. That would be smart but Microsoft doesn't do smart.

Newer Surface devices from Microsoft are already using a version of the Android OS...
 
Top