Microsoft Marks Down Surface Pro Tablet by $100

Doh hit reply too soon. I'm a highly mobile IT guy and it's basically a godsend. If you've ever had to walk a multiple story datacenter doing audits with an excel spreadsheet then you realize the value of this (even an RT would've worked well).
 
OldPueblo said:
Doh hit reply too soon. I'm a highly mobile IT guy and it's basically a godsend. If you've ever had to walk a multiple story datacenter doing audits with an excel spreadsheet then you realize the value of this (even an RT would've worked well).
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This is one big piece of the software pie missing, a Modern version of Office. Should be out next year. That won't sell a lot of Windows 8 tablets but it does add a big check box for a lot of enterprises acquiring tablets that have investments in Office and Microsoft tools already.
 
heatlesssun said:
So if you don't have much in the way of productive needs, a cheap tablet or phone will suffice, agreed. That said there are actually people that do want to be able to do work on a tablet and certain tasks like note taking or drawing do work very well on Windows. That's a niche but that is a niche what will pay more for their devices so it's not a bad niche to be in. No doubt cheaper 7" Windows tablets are necessary to get much share in the mainstream tablet market.
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Yep, count me in the "more-productive" category. Unfortunately, corporate market share is starting to be driven by consumer market share. People get familiar with iPads at home, so now they want to shoehorn them into a productive role at work. Obviously a more capable device like a surface pro is better in the corp world, but it's a big leap to re-tool to surfaces when everyone's familiar with iPads (or androids). Microsoft's problem is the corporate market is much smaller than the consumer market - especially since Apple is already the first thought when a firm decides it needs some tablets. So by limiting themselves to a smaller market, they will get less revenue, less public appreciation, and ultimately the surface will be in the same boat as RIM. It's a downward spiral that they need to break asap.

Also, the longer MS waits, the more time Apple/Google and the app developers have to make their devices work better in the corporate environment.
 
Virtus said:
Yep, count me in the "more-productive" category. Unfortunately, corporate market share is starting to be driven by consumer market share. People get familiar with iPads at home, so now they want to shoehorn them into a productive role at work. Obviously a more capable device like a surface pro is better in the corp world, but it's a big leap to re-tool to surfaces when everyone's familiar with iPads (or androids).
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There are a number of advantages that Windows tablets have in business environment already with Windows infrastructure. Domain support, hardware and software compatibility with existing investments, Modern apps can be developed in Visual Studio for environments that have Windows developers and tools. I think given all of that that it's much easier to make the case for Windows tablets in the enterprise than to the general consumer. I just found out where I work we are beginning to do some pilot testing and projects for Windows 8 tablet apps for sales and marketing lines of business. Give our enormous Windows infrastructure it makes a lot of sense to at least do some investigating into it.
 
Hmm ... a 64GB ipad for $500 or I could get a lesser version the Surface for $800.
 
heatlesssun said:
There are a number of advantages that Windows tablets have in business environment already with Windows infrastructure. Domain support, hardware and software compatibility with existing investments, Modern apps can be developed in Visual Studio for environments that have Windows developers and tools. I think given all of that that it's much easier to make the case for Windows tablets in the enterprise than to the general consumer. I just found out where I work we are beginning to do some pilot testing and projects for Windows 8 tablet apps for sales and marketing lines of business. Give our enormous Windows infrastructure it makes a lot of sense to at least do some investigating into it.
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I guess it depends on your business - I work in the financial sector and I'm seeing widespread dabbling into iPads in our firms and our competitor's firms. But most people only need them to quote stocks, show presentations, or pull up client info. There's also a clear shift to web-based tools or webapps to ensure cross platform compatibility and to control data security (i.e. no data is actually stored on the device).

I still think the surface pro is a great deal at the new price. MS has an uphill battle and unless they find a way to penetrate the popular consumer (non-corp) market, surface will continue to struggle. This price drop helps, but they are really struggling with their PR (see Xbox One).
 
Virtus said:
I guess it depends on your business - I work in the financial sector and I'm seeing widespread dabbling into iPads in our firms and our competitor's firms. But most people only need them to quote stocks, show presentations, or pull up client info. There's also a clear shift to web-based tools or webapps to ensure cross platform compatibility and to control data security (i.e. no data is actually stored on the device).
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As you said, depends on the business. The idea for this project from what I understand is to allow Windows 8 tablets be an option for users that could benefit from having a tablet but still need a laptop or workstation type of device. So it's a matter of device reduction.

Virtus said:
I still think the surface pro is a great deal at the new price. MS has an uphill battle and unless they find a way to penetrate the popular consumer (non-corp) market, surface will continue to struggle. This price drop helps, but they are really struggling with their PR (see Xbox One).
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Agreed, it's still an uphill battle but I think doable in the coming year or two. Windows tablets are currently hitting about 5% of market share, which considering price and other issues isn't horrible. Price is the big deal here and I certainly see more interest in Windows tablets now than at launch, when the prices have been lowered. My sister-in-law got the Ativ 500T with the keyboard for about $550 at Office Depot the past Sunday. Not a $200 Nexus 7 but for what it is that's not over priced either. Throw in a Bay Trail and a 1080P screen and then it could even be somewhat compelling, even to a consumer. But yes, cheaper devices are needed.
 
heatlesssun said:
... Throw in a Bay Trail and a 1080P screen and then it could even be somewhat compelling, even to a consumer. But yes, cheaper devices are needed.
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I hate to say it but I'm waiting for the improved battery life and cooling of the next gen processors before looking at w8 slates again. That's bad to day because there is always something better on the horizon, but in this case it sounds like there are significant improvements coming.
 
Virtus said:
I hate to say it but I'm waiting for the improved battery life and cooling of the next gen processors before looking at w8 slates again. That's bad to day because there is always something better on the horizon, but in this case it sounds like there are significant improvements coming.
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Exactly, that's why I figured that out of the gate Windows 8 wasn't going to do that well because the hardware that it really needs wasn't even there.
 
Even if they fix the battery life, the apps just aren't there. Just 54% of the top-100 apps are on Windows 8 They can't even get the most popular apps on Windows 8. "Windows 8 still doesn't support the No. 1 social app, Facebook, the No. 1 paid-content app, HBO GO, the No. 1 sports app, Watch ESPN. These, and others, are the same apps that I've been griping about for over a year, and they're still not supported."
 
BladeVenom said:
Even if they fix the battery life, the apps just aren't there. Just 54% of the top-100 apps are on Windows 8 They can't even get the most popular apps on Windows 8. "Windows 8 still doesn't support the No. 1 social app, Facebook, the No. 1 paid-content app, HBO GO, the No. 1 sports app, Watch ESPN. These, and others, are the same apps that I've been griping about for over a year, and they're still not supported."
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So what was the percentage a year ago? So half are there in less than a year and most are just wrappers around web sites. Plus many have good 3rd party alternatives, like Hyper for YouTube, Facebook has a number of decent ones, of course the official one is coming.

There's already nearly 100 million Windows 8 machines online and that number is going to grow at comparable numbers to tablets (counting all Windows 8 devices) though not as well as phones.
 
I went back a read through that article and the source link more thoroughly just now. Yes, Windows 8 needs more apps but there's some sloppy statements here:

"The numbers just reinforce the challenge that Windows 8 still has in apps," said Moorhead. "Windows 8 still doesn't support the No. 1 social app, Facebook, the No. 1 paid-content app, HBO GO, the No. 1 sports app, Watch ESPN. These, and others, are the same apps that I've been griping about for over a year, and they're still not supported."
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All of these things are available in a web browser on Windows 8 and RT and work well. Not perfectly touch optimized but IE Metro is a very good touch browser and unlike it iOS and Android by default, Windows 8/RT support Flash. So eyeballing it, on that list of 100 apps of which Windows 8 supposedly only has 54% of, when you throw in web sites and Flash support it's actually more like 90% of that list is supported.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 supposedly only has 54% of, when you throw in web sites and Flash support it's actually more like 90% of that list is supported.
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No, it's actually more like 54%. It's not a list of websites it's a list of apps.

msft_apps.png
 
BryanSTG said:
No, it's actually more like 54%. It's not a list of websites it's a list of apps.
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So let's say someone comes up me and says:

"I'd like to get a Windows 8 tablet with a keyboard dock because I need something that I can use for work but I have an Amazon Prime account and I'd like to watch videos from Amazon without the keyboard but I hear there's no Amazon video app for Windows 8. Is that true?"

Me:

"Yes, that's true right now but you can just go to Amazon.com in a web browser, even using the IE touch web browser and you'll be able to access all of Amazon's videos."

Someone:

"Ok, that's great, thanks."

From the users perspective does a dedicated app matter in this case when a web site does the same thing? The reason you need an app for iOS and Android is because they don't support Flash, so Windows get's docked for not having an app because it has a better web browser? This is why counting apps gets stupid sometimes. We're talking about services with video streaming like Amazon Video or HBO TO GO or Watch ESPN. If the service happens to be supported in a web browser and has access to the same content as an app then what's the difference? Other than perhaps the UI being a bit better touch enabled, not a lot. A lot of these streaming apps are just touch tweaked a bit and pretty much just the web site anyway, sometimes they aren't as powerful as the web site.

Again, I am not claiming that Windows 8/RT doesn't need more apps, but the lack of an Amazon video app hasn't prevented me from using my Prime account on my Windows 8 devices to access Amazon's video content. Nor HBO nor ESPN. Microsoft has made plenty of mistakes with Windows 8 but one thing they did go right was getting Flash to work in the IE Metro browser and it's nowhere near the power hog that Flash has historically been. That makes up for a LOT of apps that would be required on iOS and Android tablets.
 
heatlesssun said:
There are a number of advantages that Windows tablets have in business environment already with Windows infrastructure. Domain support
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Really? So I can buy a Surface RT and join it to a domain?
 
heatlesssun said:
From the users perspective does a dedicated app matter in this case when a web site does the same thing? The reason you need an app for iOS and Android is because they don't support Flash, so Windows get's docked for not having an app because it has a better web browser? T
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Keep trying to make excuses that apps aren't needed, because they are in cases where its appropriate. In that example of playing back Amazon prime vids on a Surface Pro, there would be a lot more fiddling around for the end user to do - poking at tiny text and finding the "enlarge to full screen" button, etc. Not a great experience and app works much better and more foolproof that you wont fat finger the wrong thing..
 
Mos apps are not needed, in fact they are a disease on the entire computing landscape. Why the heck do you need an app to do what a web browser can do? Develop one good website and your shit work on every computing device in the world, develop and app and it only works on 1 OS. There is no reason at all for about 80% of the apps. But MS is caught in a messed up middle ground, because the whole point of windows 8 was to try to kickstart and force windows app development. But in a way the irony is that because they left backwards compatibility in, no one was going to develop apps, why would you develop a metro app when you can develop a desktop app that will work on ALL versions of windows even XP?

So heatless is half right, apps are not needed and having flash plus web browsers gets rid of the need for stupid crap like facebook apps. But on the other hand that very advantage that windows 8 has is also giving their opponents a target to attack and removing any motive for people to develop for metro.
 
DPI said:
Keep trying to make excuses that apps aren't needed, because they are in cases where its appropriate. In that example of playing back Amazon prime vids on a Surface Pro, there would be a lot more fiddling around for the end user to do - poking at tiny text and finding the "enlarge to full screen" button, etc. Not a great experience and app works much better and more foolproof that you wont fat finger the wrong thing..
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Debating over the touch optimization of a particular web site is a far different matter than whether or not a particular capability exists at all. Web browsing is one of the top activities performed on tablets, perhaps even the #1 activity, so while touch optimization is obviously a desired attribute for web sites on tablets, people don't seem to have a problems web surfing with tablets in general. The HBO and ESPN sites aren't great with touch but there's nothing particularly troublesome about using them in IE 10/11 Metro with touch. Amazon's entire site is extremely touch friendly, the video player experience is just as touch friendly, there's little need for a dedicated Amazon video app on Windows 8/RT.

DPI said:
You said quote "Windows tablets". I just wanted to be clear so people don't get a false impression by a broad statement.
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I doubt anyone in this thread was confused given the context of the discussion and title of this thread.
 
rudy said:
Mos apps are not needed, in fact they are a disease on the entire computing landscape. Why the heck do you need an app to do what a web browser can do? Develop one good website and your shit work on every computing device in the world, develop and app and it only works on 1 OS. There is no reason at all for about 80% of the apps. But MS is caught in a messed up middle ground, because the whole point of windows 8 was to try to kickstart and force windows app development. But in a way the irony is that because they left backwards compatibility in, no one was going to develop apps, why would you develop a metro app when you can develop a desktop app that will work on ALL versions of windows even XP?

So heatless is half right, apps are not needed and having flash plus web browsers gets rid of the need for stupid crap like facebook apps. But on the other hand that very advantage that windows 8 has is also giving their opponents a target to attack and removing any motive for people to develop for metro.
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There's certainly plenty of reasons for developing natively, performance being probably the biggest. But when you do take stock of all of the apps out there for mobile devices, tons of them are nothing more than repackaged web sites with maybe bigger UI controls. That's certainly not the case for all mobile apps and many do have nice touch elements. Video and content players though are the type of apps that don't need a lot of flare or platform distinction. Web sites would be great overall for that kind of experience but the web experience on mobile isn't particularly reliable, especially on lower end Android devices.

At any rate, I don't see how it's accurate to say that a certain app doesn't exist for Windows 8 when so many apps are nothing more than repackaged web sites and exist simply because so many mobile devices have weak web browsers or don't support Flash.
 
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