memory to push E6600 to 3.0 ghz?

C

cheezies

[H]ard|Gawd
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Feb 8, 2003
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I was looking at some Corsair Value Select PC5300 667 1GB sticks, they are quite cheap right now. What are the chances that they will overclock a E6600 to 3.0 ghz?
 
assuming the chip can actually do 3ghz, 100%.

9x is the stock cpu multi, and 333mhz fsb with 1:1 is the highest speed you can do before overclocking the ram

333*9 = 3ghz :D
 
how much are the corsairs going to run you? perhaps, we can find you a better deal for better ram
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
assuming the chip can actually do 3ghz, 100%.

9x is the stock cpu multi, and 333mhz fsb with 1:1 is the highest speed you can do before overclocking the ram

333*9 = 3ghz :D
Click to expand...



Can I ask why it is necessary to OC your RAM to go beyond this 1:1 concept? I see all kinds of people at 3.2Ghz - 3.5Ghz on E6600s (or lower) and I am wondering what they have done to get it that high and be stable enough to even run programs or games that stress the CPU.
 
GEN3RIC said:
Can I ask why it is necessary to OC your RAM to go beyond this 1:1 concept? I see all kinds of people at 3.2Ghz - 3.5Ghz on E6600s (or lower) and I am wondering what they have done to get it that high and be stable enough to even run programs or games that stress the CPU.
Click to expand...

basically, at stock 266fsb, you have for normal usage on a p965:

1:1: 266 (533)
4:5: 333 (667)
2:3: 400 (800)

now when you goto 333 (say e6600 has 9x multi, so 9x333=3000)

1:1: 333 (667)
4:5: 417 (833)
2:3: 500 (1000)

there's many different ways to run 3.2ghz, or any frequency. e6600's have selectable multipliers from 6 to 9. So taking 3.2ghz as an example, 6x533=7x457=8x400=9x356=3200.

You can apply the same three dividers for those fsbs. Usually, the best choice would be 8x400 unless you have a board that can handle 6x533 on 1066 strap (it gets complicated, so just understand that 500+ fsb is hard to get by often, so you usually wouldn't be looking at this).

So with 8x400=3200, you're running 400fsb

the lowest divider is 1:1, meaning your ram must be able to do 400 (800).


edit: I answered your question genericly, because I couldn't understand what you were trying to ask, and hoped I was able to answer it somehow.

Basically, if you're at 333fsb, and don't want to take your ram over 800mhz, then your only option is 1:1 for 667, since 4:5, the next option, will set it at 833.
 
ziddey said:
how much are the corsairs going to run you? perhaps, we can find you a better deal for better ram
Click to expand...

They're going for $59.99 CAD + tax, another store also has Crucial ones for the same price as well. But from my previous experience, Corsair outperforms Crucial the majority of the time with their Value lines. Newegg has them for the same price in USD so it's a pretty good deal since I'm paying CAD dollars.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145525

BTW, what are the chances that the E6600 will do 3.0 ghz? I always see crazy overclocks everywhere, but the ones that don't make it that high people don't show off.

I'm worried that if I decided to upgrade to quad core later on, this RAM would not be sufficient? I looked at Dell's high end XPS systems, and they only use 667 mhz ram, so I'm guessing it's good enough?
 
ziddey said:
basically, at stock 266fsb, you have for normal usage on a p965:

1:1: 266 (533)
4:5: 333 (667)
2:3: 400 (800)

now when you goto 333 (say e6600 has 9x multi, so 9x333=3000)

1:1: 333 (667)
4:5: 417 (833)
2:3: 500 (1000)

there's many different ways to run 3.2ghz, or any frequency. e6600's have selectable multipliers from 6 to 9. So taking 3.2ghz as an example, 6x533=7x457=8x400=9x356=3200.

You can apply the same three dividers for those fsbs. Usually, the best choice would be 8x400 unless you have a board that can handle 6x533 on 1066 strap (it gets complicated, so just understand that 500+ fsb is hard to get by often, so you usually wouldn't be looking at this).

So with 8x400=3200, you're running 400fsb

the lowest divider is 1:1, meaning your ram must be able to do 400 (800).


edit: I answered your question genericly, because I couldn't understand what you were trying to ask, and hoped I was able to answer it somehow.

Basically, if you're at 333fsb, and don't want to take your ram over 800mhz, then your only option is 1:1 for 667, since 4:5, the next option, will set it at 833.
Click to expand...

Thanks, your post has been invaluable. Youve introduced some new terms to me that I wont bother you with asking about just yet.. I may PM you later on if that is OK. My ASUS Commando is supposedly pretty good for going above 500fsb.. I think. 8x400 seems good.. Now I am just wondering what sort of air cooling I will need to pull off that high of an OC. I think stock would be fast enough for what I need though.. just have the bug of modding...
 
GEN3RIC said:
Thanks, your post has been invaluable. Youve introduced some new terms to me that I wont bother you with asking about just yet.. I may PM you later on if that is OK. My ASUS Commando is supposedly pretty good for going above 500fsb.. I think. 8x400 seems good.. Now I am just wondering what sort of air cooling I will need to pull off that high of an OC. I think stock would be fast enough for what I need though.. just have the bug of modding...
Click to expand...

Sure, feel free to pm me or message me on aim if you use that. I might be a little busy the next day or so, since friends are coming over. I'll try to get you settled in a little. I'd take it to pm but since it's general info about the commando / p965 / c2d, this may benefit someone else in the future walking here.

First off, let me just say that I'm by no means an expert compared to a lot of guys here. So I'm not entirely sure of some of the concepts.

Basically, you already know about memory dividers now. They're most commonly referred to as 1:1, 4:5, 2:3, etc. Those are the primary ones, and while there are others, currently they often are carried over from a different strap (will get to that later), so results may be difficult to achieve, since it'd be extremely hard on the northbridge (main chipset on motherboard). These are also seen as 2.00x, 2.5x, 3.0x, etc, or 533, 667, 800, etc. Asus likes to use the actual ddr effective speed, and have it automatically adjust with what you set fsb to, which makes it extremely easy to see where you're at, when not going with the 1:1 (everyone can multiply by two I hope :)).

There are other dividers like 1:2 and 3:4, which were mostly used with the lower fsbs. For instance, if you have an older p4 that ran on 133fsb (some prescotts, etc), and you're running 533ddr2 (266 actual) ram, you'd need 1:2 to achieve it. Then you have 200fsb running 533 needing 3:4. Basically, straps are what we call the internal latencies that a northbridge runs (analogy would be cas and other memory timings to ram as strap for northbridge chipset. However, we only get to select, if the board allows, the strap, and not particular internal latencies, which aren't known to most of us). Unfortunately, not all dividers exist in each strap, which is why the extreme settings you're listed may not be usable easily. Also, higher upscalars (fsb<ram) do strain the northbridge more, even in the same strap. Therefore, 1:1 should get you furthest in fsb scaling. To get 4:5 stable, where 1:1 is may require a higher voltage to the mch (p965 nb, called vnb in asus).

Specifics regarding the commando: There were some issues with the first wave of commandos to hit burning up. It was found that there was some sort of problem with the heatsink mount on the northbridge, causing poor contact. The result was overheating of the northbridge. This can be fixed by removing the northbridge, cleaning off the stock thermal paste, and reattaching, while making sure it's pressed in firmly. From what I recall, the commando uses a heatpipe system, which connects the northbridge heatsink to the mosfet cooler, so aftermarket cooling is probably out of the question, unless you're willing to remove the heatpipe or saw it apart, or have an other system to cool the mosfets. After you've established that the chipset is making good contact with the heatsink, you could superglue or otherwise attach a 50mm fan on top of the heatsink, blowing down. It should keep it sufficiently cool, and is pretty recommended for trudging into higher fsbs, and higher vnb's.

For the most part, you should be able to hit 500fsb 1:1 with stock vnb and vfsb, but you may need to bump vnb a notch. Vfsb, I've found with a bunch of c2d's to be able to be kept at stock 1.2v or possibly a bump to only 1.3v. c2q's seem to be requiring a lot more. I've found for the p5b line that running 500+ fsb may possibly require a notch in vich. Stock is 1.057, but asus seemed to have only programmed another selectable value of 1.215. I'm not sure about commando, but this seems like a huge jump, and if you have lower values, you should test with those too.

I suppose this is getting a little more than just background information, and we can get to that later on if you have questions. The problem with the commando is that it still runs on 1333 strap beyond 400fsb, and internal latencies suffer greatly. That's what makes the abit quadgt and dfi p965-s so great right now. They're the only p965 boards that seem to be able to keep 1066 strap all the way, and even then, allow fsb's up into the 500's.

With an e6600, the two main goals people try for are 8x400=3200 or 9x400=3600.

Sorry this turned more to rambling and less help than I hoped it would.
 
interesting read.... elaborate upon 1333 and 1066 strap?

It must correlate with the memory speeds... otherwise youve explained everything pretty well. Thanks. I'll hit you up some time!
 
basically you have cpu's that run at 133fsb (533strap), 200 (800 strap), 266 (1066), 333 (1333). The thing is that when you overclock a c2d that's 266fsb (1066strap) for example, it holds that strap up until 400fsb for most boards, at which point it switches to the looser strap, 1333.

The reason for straps is that as you increase fsb, you're essentially overclocking the chipset as well. When you change to run the fsb in line with the proper strap, you're back to an unoverclocked state for the northbridge, allegedly.

So while running >400fsb on 1333strap is still overclocking the northbridge, the performance does drop a lot since it's not overclocked as much. In fact, the 1066strap / 1333 may possibly be speculation to some extents still. Since the way straps are understood currently to work, you'd imagine 400fsb on 1066 (400-266=133), and to get the "equivalent" fsb on 1333strap, you'd need 333+133=466fsb. Note that this is the assumption that I, one who hasn't studied the spec and data sheets and doesn't do the more intricate details about "strap", would imagine that performance should be equal at 400 and 466 at the two respective straps.

While graphs for bandwidth has shown this to be the case, latencies don't match up at all. Running 400fsb 4:5 1000ddr2 cas4 on 1066strap for instance, I'm in the high 40's ns for latency for ram. At 500fsb 1:1 1000ddr2 cas4 on 1333strap, I'm still above 60.

At 400fsb, I'd need to be 1:1 800ddr2 cas5 to get into the 60's. Dropping to 800mhz cas4 and I'd be into the 50's easily
 
I bought 2x 512 Corsair TwinX XMS8500 which I think to be very good value for money and very suitable for reaching the OC you want.

I was however advised that if I want to have a total of 2 Gig Ram I should sell these 2x 512 (1 Gig total) and buy 2x 1 Gig Ram cause a OC with 4x512 Ram is very difficult they say?

Donnow if that's true or not?

I think the right RAM is essential for a good and stable OC so don't be to Dutchy on that.

On the other hand you don't wonna get broke on it either.
 
Youri Carma said:
I bought 2x 512 Corsair TwinX XMS8500 which I think to be very good value for money and very suitable for reaching the OC you want.

I was however advised that if I want to have a total of 2 Gig Ram I should sell these 2x 512 (1 Gig total) and buy 2x 1 Gig Ram cause a OC with 4x512 Ram is very difficult they say?

Donnow if that's true or not?

I think the right RAM is essential for a good and stable OC so don't be to Dutchy on that.

On the other hand you don't wonna get broke on it either.
Click to expand...

yeah, it is harder on the northbridge when running 4 modules, so it is harder. good ram is getting cheaper now too. dropping at ridiculous rates. guess it means the future is coming soon
 
ziddey -

If you had $700 in three weeks (after c2d price cuts) to purchase a motherboard, cpu, and ram, to achieve the highest mhz speed....what would you get?
 
rfisher983 said:
ziddey -

If you had $700 in three weeks (after c2d price cuts) to purchase a motherboard, cpu, and ram, to achieve the highest mhz speed....what would you get?
Click to expand...

$700 is big budget. I would have gone with
e6420 $183
firestix800 $160
dfi p965 $140
total $483

haha

guess if I had more money, I may go with e6600 but ehh. I'd be trying to run 500+ on 1066strap anyway, and higher baseline multi may hinder.

instead of firestix800, I may go for crucial 1000 for higher bin gmh or something with decent gkx.

I'd stick with the same motherboard unless I wanted to sli with 680i.
 
I just bought GeIL Ultra Series PC2-6400 4-4-4-12 2x1GB kit.. supposedly good overclocker.. for $140 on NewEgg. Have I just gone off the deepend with this memory?
 
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